What Are Your Criteria For Traveling to Europe?

Scott, while you're waiting for replies, these previous threads are along the same line:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/when-do-you-honestly-think

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/how-soon-will-you-travel

And this thread too, although it got heated and a lot of posts were deleted. The article included by the OP is worth reading:
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/when-is-it-safe-to-travel-again

My criteria is simple: are things back to normal enough for me to enjoy it?

I’m not going to pay for a trip where I have to wear a mask. I won’t wear one on a transcontinental flight either. Getting through immigration will have to be relatively easy as well.

This is a good question. My husband and I briefly had a similar conversation. Crowded Rome bus - not for us now. Crowded NYC subway system - not yet for us. Etc.. My husband and I have to rethink foreign travel based on current/updated public health issues. We don't drive in foreign countries. Only use public and commercial (shuttle bus, cab) type transportation. Plus, quarantines can work two ways - entering a foreign country and returning to USA. Lots to think about here. Airlines don't scare me because of implementation of new spacing, disinfecting, and mask standards.
Let's see where we are in 6 months.

In the meantime - walk in the sunshine, get some vitamins C & D, and breathe fresh air without a mask when more than 6 feet from others.

Simply stated: "normal enough for me to enjoy it!"

Agree with NickB. I'm not wearing a mask throughout my vacation or for 8 hours on a flight. Are the restaurants at half capacity, meaning there's a good chance you won't get in? Has the vaccine been out long enough for others to test its efficacy (like guinea pigs)? Will tourist sites be at some limited capacity, meaning wait times could be ridiculous? Am I confident of getting a refund? Can you afford 14 days of quarantine?

The place I go will have to be through the worst of their epidemic. I don’t want to be a burden on their system.

The things I want to see and the things I need will have to be open. That is, sights/parks/museums as well as good restaurants and places to stay.

The risk of the virus has to be lower than it is now - through vaccine, treatment, or just much lower case numbers. Both at home and in my destination. Or if immunity is proven and it turns out I’ve had the virus, that could change my thinking on my own situation. Still not good to be a tourist in a disaster zone though!

I need to be able to get a direct flight (I’ll drive to other airports from my home if necessary). Also I need to trust that I can get there and home on schedule (no mass flight cancellations causing days long waits to get rebooked).

Masks are fine as long as there are exceptions for in restaurants.

I foresee planning my first trip back pretty spontaneously. I will need to get time off work, so going the next day is not feasible but I don’t see planning for months. I picture getting to a point where I consider it safe to go, seeing that window and going shortly thereafter. Conditions could change, I think I’ll take advantage of the possibility when I can!

As far as where to go - on one hand, rural destinations seem easier to maintain distance. Hiking in Iceland or the Alps seems safer than taking subways everywhere. But popular destinations like Rome or Paris might get the logistical needs up and running first.
Some countries will have a safer environment- fewer cases etc, but that will depend on when I’m going.

At 68 years old, my number one criteria to travel internationally or domestically will be the existence of a tested, safe vaccine. No need to quarantine would be necessary. As others have said, I would not want to need to wear a mask on a long flight. Having said that, however, recent reports have shown that airlines are not separating passengers, despite what they have said. Although I am eager to return to Italy, I won't feel comfortable doing so until 2021 at the earliest, and even then, not until later in the year. In my opinion, we all have a long way to go with this virus and, most certainly, its aftermath.

Only one person mentioned a concern for overburdening the health care system at their destination. Everyone else appears to have no consideration whatsoever for the risk you would bring to others.

That's really a consideration for the country being visited. They should be taking that into consideration when they decide whether to welcome tourists, from where, and with what restrictions. Tourists should not be the ones making policy determinations for foreign countries.

Immunity. Either I’ve had it and can’t get it again (and that is not a certainty as of now) or there is an effective vaccine, or, there has been enough infection that we have herd immunity. No getting me on an airplane until then. Social distancing on an airplane is a joke-multiple hours in a closed space with recirculating air.

Only one person mentioned a concern for overburdening the health care
system at their destination. Everyone else appears to have no
consideration whatsoever for the risk you would bring to others.

Yikes. My interpretation on the answers implies that those countries have determined that it is safe to accept foriegners and you're not a danger to its citizens.

All of life involves risk/reward calculations. We can all wring our hands and worry about if we are in danger, or if we are a danger to someone else but the fact is, we all been infected by or infected someone else. It's not like we just became germ carrying organisms in 2020. The host country decides if they are willing to allow tourists back in their country as they deem fit. We decide if we wish to risk visiting said host country as we deem fit.
We will have to learn to live with the Wuhan virus just as we have learned to live with all the other diseases in human history. We have been in a million plus year battle with them and we will continue to battle them until the end of time. How we all choose to do it is up to us.
To answer the question, I will travel overseas again only when masks, social distance beepers, and people constantly sanitizing everything I touch is no longer the "new normal." If that doesn't happen in my lifetime then I guess I will just have to settle for all the memories of past European trips. Fear, paranoia, germophobia, and a false sense of guilt is no way to travel.

Many countries are making incorrect decisions as a result of extreme right wing capitalist pressure. Its is incumbent upon good people to push back and be the ones that save millions of lives.

My plans are simple. As soon as I find an open border with no quarantine period ... I'm off.

I can answer directly as I'm in a group with a trip planned for Iceland later this summer. We just decided not to go, even though the country will be open for tourists by then. We had several main reasons why with a few other concerns:

1. The threat of having to quarantine when we return home to our states is highest on the list. None of us can afford to be shut in and most states have quarantine requirements for those coming from out of country.

2. The threat of testing positive entering Iceland, or being on a flight in which someone else tests positive and then having to quarantine or pay to return home right away.

3. The likelihood that sites and restaurants will be at reduced capacity or closed, making it harder to enjoy our visit or even to eat out.

4. The chance that during our visit, a new outbreak could occur there or at home, cutting us off from getting home.

5. Having to wear a mask on a very long flight and throughout most of our visit while out and about. All in my group are very conscientious about wearing a mask in public, but they are not comfortable for long periods. So it would reduce our enjoyment.

We are planning to do the same trip in a year as we were really looking forward to it. There was no concern about being exposed in Iceland or bringing it with us (testing is required).

Europe’s going to still be there in the future, a very desirable destination, even if some conditions will be different than they were just 3 months ago. But now, there’s just a single criterion: a proven vaccine. That could be a while.

Douglas, very well thought out, cant argue with any of it.

I guess to be fair, the one concern I have is the airports and the flights. Beyond that I can tailor my trip around the realities. Too much closed in destination A, then I plan for destination B. This is a tad different for me as I have some business in Europe that I have to take care of. So when possible, I almost have to go. My real plans are what to see and do after the business is taken care of. My preference is generally smaller non-EU countries with more nature than cities. In that regard its only the transportation hubs that are of concern.

I read an article yesterday that the "rich" are booking Caribbean and Africa for the winter. Sales are actually up. Cape Town would be fantastic, but same issue with transportation hubs. Still, I imagine if a reasonable location opens, and the flights are available at reasonable prices; I will be off.

@Douglas. I agree completely with your list. One other thing is just the constant uncertainty and moving of the goalposts. I understand that governments worldwide are trying the best for the most part to do the right thing. But, we’re all learning on the fly. So, I wouldn’t want to be abroad and then have something suddenly change on me. I don’t know anything about Iceland but I’d also wonder if different places had different rules within the country.

1. Planes are flying
2. No quarantine on arrival
3. Museums, sights etc are open
4. Restaurants, cafes etc are open

I understand that wearing a mask and being tested are my new reality and I’m going to do it. I’m not going to deny myself pleasure because I Want to make a statement. I mean there’s nothing comfortable about the flight to Europe anyway, I have to wear a mask it’s no big deal. I’ve gotten pretty used to it already. I assume for at least thr next couple of years I’ll be wearing them everywhere I go

Carol,
I agree with your four. Also, agree with many other posters.
We are in our early 70s but very healthy with no underlying conditions.

Our travel plans for 2020 are to stay home, but we expect 2021, by Spring and Summer should be ready to go.

My life expectancy right now is about 15 more years. This virus will have eliminated at least a full year of my travel plans. There may never be a vaccine.

At some point you have to go on living. The fatality rate, even for people our age with no underlying conditions is still low.https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Of course, we want to avoid getting the virus, but at some point you have to decide what the risk is to keep on living your dreams.

Maybe when people start saying, “Hey. Remember that COVID 19 thing?”
We love to travel and have done so for many, many years but are willing to wait it out. We have eliminated all international and domestic travel planning. Since retiring 15 years ago, we have been lucky and happy to spend nearly three months of every year somewhere else, so this is not a decision lightly made. Paranoid? Perhaps, but that’s how we are dealing now. Be well everyone.

I agree with Carol on all points
If the museums, restaurants and main attractions arent open then there is little point going. I'm not thrilled about wearing a mask but, if its only in crowded areas its a reality I can get used to.

My first criterion is health insurance. Friends have postponed their trip to NYC (they should have been there now) until the fall. A travel agent friend told them that currently insurance companies here (Israel) are not issuing policies for travel to the US. BTW health insurance is not a new thing for me, I haven't gone anywhere without it in decades.

My second criterion is the country's situation re Covid. Right now Greece is looking extremely good, Hungary is on the list. I would love to return to Venice too. Israel also seems to have a handle on the virus (our numbers are very low) so I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to travel to Europe in the fall. Of course, for me the plane ride is different - Athens is about 2 hours, Budapest a little more, Rome (probably no direct flights to Venice) is 3.5 hours.

Health insurance is a good point, Chani. I move to Medicare in the fall and will need to see about health insurance while traveling. I would anticipate price changes but there at least needs to be a policy to buy.

When the airlines open up flights!

geovgiffith, common sense.

Another alternative is to open your horizons and look for less populated locations and activities. My first trip will probably be fly fishing in Bosnia or Montenegro or Ukraine. If I survive the trip over, risk will be lower. Hiking, rafting or anything in the outdoors is a good option for anyone that isnt comfortable in crowds.

Still, an invitation by the host country, no quarantines, affordable flights and a willingness to risk the flight and the airports is a must.

The Blue Cross Blue Shield Medicare plan covers initial care overseas. Emergency room, some dental, etc.

it is a great plan. Not to mention it covers scripts. All under one roof, all for less then the government plan.

"No need to quarantine" - my main obstacle, barring no flights. If most things/places that we are interested in are open then we'll go. We mainly walk and eat.

The Blue Cross Blue Shield Medicare plan covers initial care overseas. Emergency room, some dental, etc.

I’m glad you like your plan, probably a Medicare Advantage plan. But these are specific to different states and, even within states, by county. So your experience and benefits cannot be generalized.

I appreciate the wide variety of responses. I think an important point was made to also consider the travel issue from the point-of-view of the folks on the other side of the pond. What are their thoughts about having visitors from outside the EU? We are also rethinking travel to less frequently visited sites in Europe that are on our bucket list. Might be time to dig out the backpack again :)

What are their thoughts about having visitors from outside the EU?

Well if they are among 19 countries that are not part of the EU, they may feel differently than the other 27. And I suppose that the 27 European countries not on the Euro might feel differently than those that are on it. Probably the 4 predominately Islamic European nations look towards different neighbors than does Switzerland.

I am going to guess that if they open their borders to visitors, it is their intent to welcome visitors.

James,
I agree with you about opening up to places like Eastern Europe. We lived overseas and have traveled a lot. I have been to 78 foreign countries.

When I first started traveling overseas in the 1980s, I wanted to visit mainly those places with significant historical and cultural interest. Italy with its wonderful history and art was at the top of my list. Paris, London and Munich were right up there as well. As I have aged, and had visited those places more than once, I expanding to Egypt, Israel, South America, East and South Asia, Australia/NZ. Did a great trip to Ukraine, Russia and the Baltic countries as well as China, Japan, India, Singapore and Malaysia.

More recently, we have love the more scenic places like Alaska, Norway, Around the Horn of South America, the Panama Canal, Canadian Rockies, Norway to the North Cape. Yes, there is more to see than the Coliseum and the Parthenon. Hawaii was nice, as was the beautiful Azores. Last year, Machu Picchu was special. Loved Peru, its wonderful people, cuisine and history.

Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Turkey and Ukraine were great. There is great history as well as scenic places.

Everybody has their own risk level which I understand. Furthermore, new information is always coming out and rules change. With that said, 2020 travel to Europe is a non-starter for us. We are spending our "CC credits" on domestic travel starting in July.
- 2 weeks quarantining in Central CA wine country at a resort.
-2 weeks Santa Cruz beach condo
-2 weeks in Montana, fly fishing and hiking.
All the above allow us to reasonably self quarantine and still enjoy some amenities. Not ideal but it will do for now. Depending on the numbers, we may expand to Napa/Sonoma late summer

We don't have a definitive criteria for European travel. When it feels right, we will go.

"The Blue Cross Blue Shield Medicare plan covers initial care overseas. Emergency room, some dental, etc."

Not in my state. I have to purchase GeoBlue for anything overseas and my Blue Advantage considers anything out of state to be out of network.

My criteria is that I don't come back with the virus. With my age and other risk factors, I'm in a high risk situation if I get it. So that would be my criteria, not getting it or killing or endangering loved ones or other people I could give it to.

Yes they can, I generally like my Blue Cross plan.... Superior to what is offered by the government . Please note the use of the word , "my".

Most of these responses center on the situations in the countries we would like to visit, which of course is the question. European and some Asian countries are handling responses and safety measures better than here in the US. I might be safer in Europe than here. The problem for me is airports and airplanes. Supposed face mask requirements are not being enforced once people are on the plane. Are middle seats really empty as originally stated? From what I've read, no. So until we feel safe in the airport and on the plane it really doesn't matter how safe we feel in another country.

Cala, do some additional research on the BC/BS situation. When I was shopping around for a post-retirement federal insurance plan (not a Medicare plan), the BC/BS telephone rep told me the plan would be fine for overseas use when I asked about the "out-of-network" language. I ended up choosing a (less expensive) policy with a different company, so I didn't seek written confirmation of the BC/BS plan details--which would be a necessary step to take. However, given how much less expensive medical treatment normally is outside the US, I don't think it's unreasonable for an insurance company offering international coverage to reimburse you at in-network rates. It's highly likely that you'd have to pay for treatment upfront and get reimbursed later, however.

Carol, Even I have to admit, that's the one part of travel that still makes me a bit nervous. I'm still open to travel once things open if they let me wear a hazmat suit on the plane.... not really. But I did see a video an acquaintance took on a flight recently in the middle east and the crew and attendants were in paper suits, face shields, masks, etc. Was not too comforting.

Blue Cross Medicare plan, my plan, will not cover a pre- existing condition, that you are going overseas to treat .Only an emergency . Initial treatment must be through an emergency room. Disclaimer....This is my plan. I would hope anyone reading anything , on one of these boards, would follow up with their own due diligence . I guess I give people credit for having a higher level of common sense then to believe someone named, aptly, twopffenig.

bs

Mine would be no need to quarantine once arriving.

I don’t mind wearing a mask while being “there” or on the planes.

James E, while hazmat suits aren't comforting, at least they're trying to protect passengers. We won't have that problem here.

Excellent, we dont want that sort of thing here.

James E, hoping you're being facetious, as I was.

My criteria is a decent deal on a flight.

I'd love to travel very soon. I see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy Europe without crowds. This won't last forever. I'm not waiting for services to get back to normal, people currently live there and they're surviving.

I do think it's important that your must see sights are open when you visit - so maybe pick parks, coasts and mountains in Croatia/Slovenia over metropolitan museums in big cities for the next trip?

I dont think flight attendants wearing hazmat suits will make me any safer. A mask maybe, gloves, maybe a tiny tiny bit.

When the business class flights start serving wine and the generally gourmet food. I use miles or upgrade to business class on international flights and without the perks it is not worth it to me.

So among other travel-related things being affected, are the people who write and produce in-flight magazines still at work? If they’re still being printed, is there less content? Any new movies being included in the in-flight entertainment? Or is all that on hold for now?

So among other travel-related things being affected, are the people
who write and produce in-flight magazines still at work? If they’re
still being printed, i’d there less content?

Highly doubtful, I read they are being considered for phase-out because the airlines don't want people touching anything multiple times with their hands. They want to reduce the surface area their staff will need to clean, and these magazines are just an obstruction. Plus advertising is also going down simultaneously, so the content would probably thin out on its own to be point of being useless. I used to love thumbing through those magazines, but don't expect to see anymore in the immediate future.

The airlines have been phasing out the inflight screens as well (on new planes), in favor of everyone bringing their own tablets with them. That was already occurring in spite of COVID.

I will miss them.........

BlockquoteSo among other travel-related things being affected, are the people who write and produce in-flight magazines still at work? If they’re still being printed, i’d there less content? Any new movies being included in the in-flight entertainment? Or is all that on hold for now?

Delta has announced that their inflight magazine is gone forever.

I don't see them changing in flight entertainment right now, but I always recommend assuming it won't work!

In terms of the comments about medical insurance, I have seen articles that the insurance industry will be reviewing their willingness to cover Covid 19 for travellers. As long as there are travel advisories and it is considered an active pandemic, coverage may be limited.

As long as there are travel advisories

and those travel advisories say dont travel and you do it anyway, I agree, the insurance companies should limit their coverage.

Seems that “virtual” will be the type of travel a lot of us will be engaged in for some time - longer for some, less so for others, even under the most optimistic conditions. I suppose that’s been the way it’s been for 200 years for most people, except for those few with the means to do a Grand Tour a couple centuries ago, and more of us able to take trips in the past 50 years.

When regular transatlantic flights resume, just keeping away from others, avoiding touching things too much, keeping a mask positioned, staying hydrated, maybe being comfortable enough to get some rest, and other preoccupations will prevent having the time to flip thru a magazine, or watch or listen to any entertainment during the flight. Then there’s preparing for the inevitable scrum when deplaning. Hmmm, maybe hazmat suits could replace the life vests that are such a routine part of the safety talk before taking off!

I have a trip to Mexico booked later this year. I was able to buy insurance that covers COVID-19. All I bought was medical it was not thar expensive. You just need to do some research there’ are options out there

Carol--Would you mind sharing the company/policy that you purchased? Our medical does not cover us out of the US and our travel insurance specifically excludes pandemics, so I am on the hunt for travel medical insurance. Thanks!