Information for first time Europe travellers... itinerary

Every traveler has their own priorities, so that's really important to center on. For me, your itinerary sounds like WAY to much -- too many cities in too few days. But that's me. My husband and I went to Europe together for the first time (his first time ever) last year for 8 nights. We spent one night in Milan and the rest in the lakes region of northern Italy. That's more our style -- to visit one place and be immersive there (spending quality time just sitting at a table with a drink and watching the world go by) rather than being more on the go. We're headed back to Italy this spring and spending 3 nights in Rome and then 7 nights in Puglia (in a few different locations). Even that plan has two 5.5 train travel days (which I see as reading vacation time :)).

I think your budget is challenging -- we have found inexpensive lodging in Rome because I booked early and it's still about 150 Euros/night.

The answers to a lot of your questions can be found in the Travel Tips sections of this website (and others) so I'd suggest doing some research and then coming back with specific questions.

$2000 divided by 13 is not quite $154 (less when converted to euros) per day for food, travel and lodging for two people. I hope someone can help you with that type of budget.

I agree with Carrie - I think for a super budget trip like you are trying to do you'll be challenged to try and cover that many places.

1. What phone company are you with now?

2. If you are considering intra-Europe Low cost Carriers, start with looking at their luggage dimensions/baggage weight and go from there. If you are willing to pay for checking luggage I'd go with no bigger than 55cm/21.5in. Go as light as you can for the empty bag. No sense in starting out with a bag that weighs 8#.

3. No cash needed. Have an ATM card and withdraw a little bit of cash when you get to your first destination. Do you have Apple Pay or google Pay? I have used Apple Pay almost exclusively for my last 3 trips including Italy, Netherlands, France and UK. If you don't use Apple Pay/GooglePay, have 2 CCs that are contactless as well as one debit card that is able to be used in an ATM.

4. Start with guide books. Rick Steves' are good for basics for first timers.

I will take a stab at the 'air' portion.

We have enough air miles points through Delta to fly to any major city in Europe so that cost is covered.

Do you have enough 'miles' to get back home? A one way ticket from Europe to US can be stunningly expensive.

Assuming you have enough miles to cover both ways, look at flying into London and back from Switzerland. Book a separate London-Rome flight and trains to Venice and Switz.

Depending on what Delta makes available you may be able to fly Switz. to US or may need to get somewhere else for the US bound flight.

How is the best way to utilize our points with the airline.

There are others than can give you tips for utilizing miles, but you may just want to visit the Delta website and start looking for flights in your time frame. You can change the settings so the search on Delta will calculate miles rather than dollars.

Suggestions re: where we should fly to etc

Well, I would suggest flying via open-jaw (multi-city). That way you don't have to backtrack. For example, you could fly to Rome, spend your time in Italy, head to London and then fly back home from London. When you are looking on the Delta site, click on the Round Trip option, and on the pop-up menu, choose Multi-City and that will show you options.

Most economical budget friendly way to eat in Venice, Rome and Swiss Alps. Pasta is not our friend:(

Rick Steves gives some great tips for both sleeping and eating on the cheap. I would look through these articles for some good ideas. https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/sleeping-eating

Info on Visa's, permits and any legal requirements to enter these countries.

There are no visas, permits or legal requirements (other than a passport) to enter Italy or England or anyplace else in Western Europe.

Phone plans, and electronics info for phone and computers

Who is your current cellular provider? That makes a difference. If you don't want to pay for an international plan (for example, Verizon charges a pretty penny) then you can always get a SIM card or eSIM data plan. WIth regards to computers and so on, you will need adaptors. Italy's adaptors are different than the UK. You can find more info here: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/phones-tech/electric-adapters-converters

Packing We are thinking just carry-on. What type of carry-on should we buy

Something that you like and that will fit within the guidelines of the airlines you are flying. Delta has certain guidelines, but keep in mind that many flights have layovers in Europe, and you could wind up on a Delta code share partner, like KLM or Air France, both of whom have more stringent requirements. So check their dimensions as well. Most suitcase brands have an international carry on size, so look for those but then double-check the dimensions.

How much cash and should we get the currency before we leave

You won't need much cash as most of Europe is tap and pay with a credit card (mostly Visa and MC), but the best and cheapest way to get cash is to visit an ATM at the airport or nearby once you arrive in Europe. You can get it before you leave but you will be charged more for that.

What should we see in all these cities

Okay, that's where I stop. 😊 I would suggest that you go to the library or your bookstore, and grab some guidebooks on the countries you want to visit. Rick Steves offers good choices; you can also find good information with Lonely Planet guidebooks and Rough Guides. Here is a list of guidebooks that Rick Steves offers; https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/guidebooks

Edit to add: One type of lodging you might want to look at in Italy is staying at a monastery. There are a number of posts on this forum that discuss it, and the rates are usually less than you would pay for a hotel. Here are some threads:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy-reviews/staying-in-monasteries
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/2-week-trip-ideas
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/monastery-lodging-ideas-thoughts
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy-reviews/monastery-stays-09dd810f-1fda-441a-88f1-eabf32488154

Congratulations on your anniversary and achieving empty-nest status!!

While your budget is on the lower side on this forum, the good news is that you have time to plan and find bargains. You have chosen some of the most expensive destinations in Europe though, so you will need to really think about what you want from this trip. You say this is a "wet-your-feet" find of trip - does this mean you plan to go back? In which case, is it necessary for you to get to all these destinations on this trip? Remember, the more you move, the costlier it is.

I am not very familiar with Delta points, but one thing I will say - try different dates, cities - and do it often. The "fares" change frequently - multiple times a day sometimes - so keeping your eye on this is crucial. The advice generally is to get yourself to the continent as cheaply as possible, then take cheap carriers like RyanAir to reposition yourself. However, since UK is part of your travel plans, be aware that UK charges a hefty fee at take-off, so flying from USA to UK may be cheaper than UK to USA. Flying from UK to mainland Europe has lower fees I think (I am not sure).

It will be best to use carry-on luggage (be aware that the budget airlines have smaller restrictions than most) and also look into each airline's luggage policy minutely. Look into trains too - seat61.com is the definitive guide to all things train. For real cheap, maybe try buses? I don't know much about these, but they normally take longer, are less comfortable but cheap.

What is your travel style? Do you love getting up early and hitting all the sights? Are you more leisurely travelers? Do you like seeing churches, museums, hiking? Let that guide you in the way you set up your European trip. What do you mean by "seeing the Swiss Alps"? Do you actually want to be in the Alps? Or just see them from afar?

Food - the cheapest but partway healthy I find is to go to a grocery store and pick up from their hot counter. This is especially true in Switzerland, where going to a restaurant is very expensive. Street food is also inexpensive, but not quite as healthy.

Currency - you will be dealing with three different currencies and it will be cheapest to get cash at your destinations. Credit cards, Google/Apple pay are being preferred more often, but make sure you have no fees for using your cards abroad. Try to get cards that are touchless (the symbol looks like the wifi signal sideways).

Stay - It's been a while since I was in Rome, but I loved staying at the Beehive, which also has private rooms.

Good luck and have a fantastic trip!

Many. of us who frequent the forum pack light so I agree with your idea to take carry on only. But here is a big caution: make sure you know the size regulations for carryons on whatever discount airlines you choose. You mentioned Easy Jet. I have flown Easy Jet and Ryanair many times and agree that they can be budget friendly but they also have very strict size regulations so make sure that whatever carryon bag you take fits their measurements. I personally like soft sided, two wheel bags because they seem more flexible and easier to wheel over cobblestones. Don't rule out trains. Train travel in Italy is fairly cheap.

I agree with those telling you that your budget may be too tight. Rome, Venice, Switzerland and London are all pricier destinations. Lots of places in London, including some cafés, coffeshops, bakeries, etc are now cashless so be prepared with a card or Applepay that you can use.

In Rome, the area around the Termini train station has more budget friendly hotels.

Your days are skimpy for all you want to do - one day in Venice or Switzerland is enough to say you've been there but not enough to justify the trip and truly enjoy your destination. You know you want to spend time - 4 days in London- and that is the most economical part of your trip since you won't have to pay for lodging so that seems to be set. But trying to cram in three big and beautiful destinations in just five days is not recommended. All three are quite spread apart one from another and regardless of whether you travel by plane or train that travel time will eat up a significan part of your already limited time. I suggest you prioritize on this trip. You could easily fill five days in Rome and add a daytrip from there. Or choose Venice and maybe one of the Dolomite towns. I would rework your itinerary.

I'll let others deal with your flights. Your budget is very, very restricted. You may have to look jnto hostels and Monastery stays in Italy and Switzerland. Read Rick's Europe Through the Back Door and Best of Europe guidebooks and the Explore Europe and Travel Tips sections to answer many of your questions. You can also use the search function for many if your questions, filtering for recent threads onthe forum.

When fleshing out both your itinerary and budget don't forget to factor in the actual costs in both time and money for your travel days between places. And dont count them as one of your days in any of the places you plan to visit. I would seriously question spending only 1 day in Venice or Switzerland. If you can't add at least 1 more day, then save Switzerland for another trip.

First, welcome to the Forum & fun to plan a trip, no matter what the constraints. For this tight budget, I would strongly suggest starting an EXCEL spreadsheet looking at costs, this might be doable, but you won't know until you plug in the numbers. I always start with the public library - Have a look at Europe on a budget books, just know that it will most likely be out of date, the pandemic has caused an increase in prices in many areas. @Mardee raised a good point about this budget is $153 per day. And you mentioned the autumn, the later you go the more likely it is to find cheaper accommodation & flights, & even using points, will be more plentiful.

And since you ask 'what to see' in each location, we have very little idea of what you might like to see, how fit are you? Are there any monuments you must see in Rome & Venice & have you checked out cost? Give it a think, take a hard look at those guidebooks & specifically at sample accommodation first, it will inform other decisions.

Budget but clean accommodations in Rome, Venice, and Swiss Alps. Our goal is 1 full day in Venice, 3 full days in Rome and 1 full day seeing the Swiss Alps. We are only interested in seeing the Alps...no gondolas etc. we would like 4 full days in London/ English countryside mainly with family.

With this budget I would skip Switzerland, it's one of the most expensive countries in Europe. You could take that one night from Switzerland and add it to Italy, get into the Alps on the Italian side, for example the Dolomites are beautiful. Have you looked at monasteries or B&B's for average price per day in Rome & Venice? You could do a multi-city trip, fly into Rome & out of LHR, add an inexpensive flight OW from Venice to London, assuming you drop Switzerland & take the train from Rome to Venice. Use Search function, "Forum Dolomites, or, Italian Alps" and see what you can learn.

Most economical budget friendly way to eat in Venice, Rome and Swiss Alps. Pasta is not our friend:( Grocery stores & picnics, lots on the Forum if you do your research, Search function at top of this page is your friend & there's lots of street food in Rome, easy to grab dinner at pizza place for around 12 Euros with a beverage.

Phone plans, and electronics info for phone and computers - Also available in Forum, there's an entire section devoted to tech. We don't know what provider you use now, what you want to carry, how user-intense you are traveling. AT&T for example has a $10 per day unlimited data plan, which is what we use.

Packing - We are thinking just carry-on. What type of carry-on should we buy - Look at subheading 'packing' under Forum. There is a LOT.

How much cash and should we get the currency before we leave - Again, easiest using search function. Italy uses a bit more cash than many places, haven't been to England recently.

Unless someone is taking care of all transportation in England, I find trains very expensive there, so would also look specifically at expenses there as well. And Good luck!!

(PS, Suki added such great comments, just as I posted, completely agree! And apologies, other posters kept adding the same things I was typing.... Even naming my favorite guide books, great minds and planners think alike?!)

For your airfare and reservations for your dates you need to deal directly with Delta, online or in a phone call.
Where should you fly?
Where you get the best deals from Delta.
One day each in Venice and the Swiss Alps is not worth the money nor time to travel to them.
Within Europe, budget airlines are a good way to travel.

Venice, Rome, Swiss Alps “economical” eating. Since you only have one day each in Venice and Swiss Alps and are on a strict budget, cheese and bread/roll, panini. Switzerland is very expensive.
Your carryon must meet your airlines requirements for maximum weight and inches. Ask or research Delta. Budget airlines in Europe probably will be much more strict so keep their measurements in mind as you shop for lugg
No cash needed, bring ATM and credit cards.
What should you see?
Do research including Rick Steve’s website and guide books, plus others like Fodor’s, Frommers, DKEyewitness. You must have some idea or why did you choose them?
Planning an independent trip takes a lot of research that you need to do now! If this trip is in Autumn 2024 you had better get going on getting your reservations made.

An alternate to the Swiss Alps to avoid expensive Switzerland would be to go to the stunning Italian Dolomites. They’re gorgeous, and the accommodations, train travel cost and food will also be cheaper there.

With your tiny budget, you will have very limited options for transportation, accommodations, and food. And at this point, all of your questions are putting the cart before the horse. Some basic research is required before you can make an itinerary. You would have a very hard time executing what you outlined. There’s plenty of good advice here, but without a realistic itinerary based on your time and financial constraints all the other questions are premature. The Excel spreadsheet idea is a good one; I think it help you sort this out. Columns for each of the possible destinations for lodging, food, intracity transportation, costs and time for moving between each city, entry tickets to major sites, and incidentals will help you identify what is realistic and what is not. Lodging is going to be the biggest chunk of your daily budget. None of your possible destinations are cheap, but in Rome, for example, monasteries and convents are spartan but clean and less expensive alternatives to hotels. But it takes research to find those, as well as to find all the other information you need to make an informed choice. Tally up all the expenses for each destination to see how far that $150 will go. Not very far at all. You’re going to need time for some serious shopping and planning to make this budget work.
Since your costs will be lower in London with family, I would concentrate your time there and then choose one other city or location. If it were I, I’d drop Venice and Switzerland entirely. For me, a day or two in Venice is a waste. It deserves much more time. Switzerland is over-the-top expensive. Moving between cities eats up more time and money than many people realize. That leaves Rome. But you might think the Venice or Switzerland are more worthy destinations. Do some nuts and bolts research, then add in sightseeing priorities. From there, you can reevaluate your goals and plans, see what fits financially and into the timeframe you have on the ground. The quick and dirty version of research would just be to read the RS books and/or chapters on your proposed stops, but there’s plenty more out there. Once you’ve got the itinerary, then move on to questions about phone plans, cash, and visas.

Switzerland is tough on a budget. If you want to see the Alps, I might suggest the Dolomites instead. They are absolutely stunning, and close to Venice. Ryanair flies cheaply from London Stansted to Verona, which can be convenient.

is the $2,000.00 budget for each of you or both of you?

What should we see in each of those cities? Why did you decide to go there? Telling us you’ve decided to go to places and then going why go there strikes me as something you missed a step in planning. you seem to have picked places to go without knowing whether you would even like them. Because you wanted to be able to come back and tell your friends you went to Rome? I don’t get it.

Easyjet. Before you buy those tickets, that look so tempting make sure you really really understand the regulations surrounding them. If your bag is slightly oversized, or even massively oversized, Delta will let you on the plane. If your backpack is the tiniest bit oversize budget carriers are going to charge you almost as much as you paid for that ticket. no you won’t be sitting next to each other. The budget carriers in Europe actually make a point of sitting you apart to see if they can get the fees out of you to get you to sit together. Yes, you’ll be going to airports that are not always centrally located . How much more is it going to cost you to get to that airport?

You say you won’t need much money in London, but London is expensive. Transportation is expensive. Sites are expensive (museums are free but you don’t go there ). If you want to go into London to see anything with your family, I’m sure they’re going to expect you to pay for your own tube tickets and that’s not cheap in London.

I know this sounds vicious but you have a very very low budget and you have picked some of the most expensive places in Europe to go to. I’m doing a budget trip coming up - I’m going to Spain. I decided I didn’t want to spend a lot of money this year, and to be honest, Spain is incredibly affordable compared to Italy And Switzerland is just astronomical. I’m lucky I’ve been to Switzerland because I go with the Girl Scouts and I get a really good deal on lodging but that’s probably not an option for you

As for your Delta Miles, You didn’t say how many miles you have so it’s hard to say, but flying out of JFK to London in October figure you’re going to need over 100,000 miles miles for the two of you round-trip to London. And then, if you flew into London and out of Rome, you’re probably looking at more mileage. the big key is flexibility. What I do on this kind of situation is I go onto the Delta website and search for Miles one way to London and one way home from wherever. I then try to book a multi city to London on the cheap day I identify and home from Rome on the cheap day.

Your budget is extremely low for touring Europe. In my opinion, even with severe cutting, you will not have enough for 15 days in Europe.

Some tips if you try this:
1) Switzerland is perhaps the most expensive country in Europe, although Norway is perhaps just as expensive. You mentioned going there for one day, it will be an expensive day, especially if you stay in Switzerland. The Mediterranean countries tend to be cheaper than those in Northern Europe and the Eastern European countries are definitely cheaper than those in the West. Italy is still a bit expensive, but it is a wonderful country to visit because of the history and art.

2) The best way to save on a trip is to PLAN, PLAN, Research and PLAN some more. You will find out what it cost to rent a car, or find acceptable lodging with research. I love to use Kayak.com for finding good prices for lodging, and other things. Still, after using Kayak, go directly to the source if you can and book direct. Also, TripAdvisor can be helpful. They have a great map feature that allows you to see the location of your lodging or restaurant as well as "Things to do."

3) Try to book budget hotels or Bed and Breakfast lodging. With a B&B you get a great free breakfast and that is a big help. Also, those tend to be located in city center so you can avoid expensive commuting into the city. Car Rental is not necessary in Italy and it can be expensive, as well as many tourist get expensive tickets after they return home from their trip. Trains are great in Italy. Go second class.

4) Also, you can save on dining by buying some food in grocery stores. Not that you will likely be able to cook yourself, but buy ingredients for sandwiches or salads. Also, TripAdvisor has dollar signs next to its restaurants, so stick to those with the fewest dollar signs.

5) Admission into sites can cost, but still you should budget for some, like visiting the Sistine Chapel in Rome (amazing) as well as the Coliseum and Forum.

5) Buy a travel guide, and tour on your own instead of paying for tours. If you do your research, you can do it on your own. Also, Venice is very expensive and the cheapest lodgings are near the main train station. Still, you will likely have to pay at least $200 per night there.

6) watch for pickpockets and it is best to wear a money belt for men and women carry a pack safe purse.

is the $2,000.00 budget for each of you or both of you?

Nigel asks a great question. Or did you drop a number when you posted your budget?

Congratulations! on 40 years of marriage.

Everyone has given you great information. A couple more things to keep in mind (and I'm sorry if they have been mentioned already):
*Don't assume you only need minimal budgeting in London. There will be sightseeing you want to do. Meals out. Taking family out somewhere as a thank you for their hospitality.
*Add local transport into your budget. Yes, it's cheap, but it adds up when your budget is so tight.
*Use Rome2Rio website to get an idea about distance and time between locations. Do not book through them. Only book with the carrier or provider.
*Easy Jet charges for extras. Look at their website for flight information and costs. Their free luggage is minimal so you will be charged extra for anything over size & weight limit. This is true of most discount airlines.
*One day anywhere is not enough or even an overnight trip. Transportation from location to another takes at least half a day.
*Look for cheaper hotels on Booking.com and consider hostels. I am staying at monastery stays in Florence and Rome this year. They average €92/night for a single room. I got better pricing for 4 nights and better cancellation policy by booking directly with the monastery instead of MonasteryStays.com. I booked almost a year in advance.
*As others have said PLAN, PLAN, PLAN. Get a map, draw out your trip in logical sequence. Use guidebooks and websites to decide what you want to see. As tight a budget $2000 is, plan out what each day and category will cost.
*Be flexible. Do you really need to see the Alps this trip? Do you really need to go to Venice this trip? Spend your time in London with your family. Afterwards, go to Rome. You can get "open jaw" plane tickets, fly into London, out of Rome.
*Don't forget to consider Travel Insurance, at a minimum medical and medical evacuation.

After you get the trip basics figured out, come back, confirm your itinerary, then ask about incidentals and whatever other questions you have. The first trip is the hardest to plan. Just remember you can't see it all and there will be other trips. Like you said you are "getting your feet wet."

Dropping Switzerland will save you money on transportation. In addition, the weather in Zermatt is often cloudy and foggy, and you can’t count seeing the Matterhorn, so you might spend the time and money to get there and not see a thing.

On the other hand, I think one full day in Venice is okay. It’s not ideal, but it will give you enough time to see it and determine if you want to go back. That said, if you are having trouble meeting your budget, cutting Venice will enable you to reduce your transportation cost. There is a ton to do in Rome, so an extra day there could be put to good use. The less stops you have, the lower your transportation costs and the more time you’ll have for sightseeing and the more relaxing the trip will be.

Congrats on your fortieth anniversary! I hope you have a wonderful trip!

We have enough air miles points through Delta to fly to any major city
in Europe so that cost is covered.

You may want to do a reality-check on that. Don't make any assumptions - go and look at what it would actually "cost" (in points and fees) for the specific flights you would consider and look on specific dates if you booked those today. You may be fine and have it covered, but do not assume that - verify that. Also be aware that award flight availability dries up and then its gone (or is 10X as expensive), so just because the seats you want are available today at a price you can afford, that does not mean it will be the same tomorrow or next week or next month. In general, if you see an award seat you want at a price you're willing to pay...it's best to grab it ASAP so you don't miss it. (Of course, you need to have your plans nailed down first...)

PS: Thank you all ...I am blown away by all this info...you all are amazing. Will start our spreadsheet and reading!!!
We are from the Canadian Rockies so our dream is to see the Matterhorn;)..No hiking etc..just to see it
We only want to see the canals of Venice on this trip
Have been to London before so mainly hanging with family and visiting the Tower of London...our Budget is very low for London
We are in good health so walking is ok
Thank you again.

I think this "PS" is an add-on to the OP's first post. Hopefully the budget and destination realities are soaking in. No one wants to be cruel, but some things have to be put in perspective. But maybe not:
"so our dream is to see the Matterhorn"
"We only want to see the canals of Venice"

firstcome12, why go to places you may not be able to afford on this trip to get a postcard view? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense. Use your budget to experience a city or area. Yes, Venice canals are unique but the city is more than just waterways. The history, the churches, the museums (they aren't all filled with painting art), the lagoon islands, the glass and lace crafts. There is so much to see and do. As for the Matterhorn, I can't comment because I have not been and it's not on my bucket list.

Ask yourself how much is it worth in travel expenses to say you saw the Matterhorn or the Venetian canals? That will be part of your homework/planning to determine if the means justifies the end result. You have to decide what is most important to you.

Maybe you can expand your budget?? I travel solo once a year on a budget of approximately $200-250 per day for 10 to 15 days independent plus a RS tour, not including airfare or travel insurance. In comparison, someone upthread calculated your budget for two of you is $155/day.

None of us want to talk you out of seeing what you want. We're trying to help you plan a practical, realistic trip you can afford. After you think about all that everyone has suggested, let us know how your plans are developing and ask lots of questions. Because things are booking faster than years past, it's best to do this ASAP.

Actually, David, you don’t have to have your plans nailed down to book on Delta. They waive the cancellation fees for mile tickets a while back. The trip I’m going on coming up - I saw a great deal, I booked it and then I made the decision as to whether it would work for me.

Honestly, if you see a really good deal, book it and then figure out if it’ll work for you. Do not wait even 24 hours.

Your budget is not high enough. My wife and I are able to visit Germany and live right at that budget. But we are experienced Germany travelers and we stay in small towns in small b&bs and apartments. Major cities cost us at least twice that amount and we are frugal.

That said, in Venice and Rome we stayed in convent/monastery accomodations ( in reality inns run by monks or nuns ). The one we stayed in in Venice goes for about 120 Euro per night, in Rome 140E

They waive the cancellation fees for mile tickets a while back...

I know. (And I am very quick to grab award seats speculatively for a trip I might take, knowing there's no downside to canceling if plans change or if I decide not to go.) I just wanted to keep it simple for the OP - I have a feeling they have a lot on their plate with all this.

Just no way around it -- budget way too small. Should be at least double. We are pretty good at traveling efficiently and still spend about $150/day EXCLUDING lodging and travel expenses.

...We have enough air miles points through Delta to fly to any major city in Europe so that cost is covered...... That is not a given. Booking airline ff tickets are difficult and should be done now. Too much competition from people with lots of points. And try to book an open jaw (multi-city) tickets. Often will save time and money.

Even if your budget is low for London, it is one of the most expensive cities so small things can be expensive.

How much cash and should we get the currency before we leave. Maybe a 100 Euro from a local back and use a debit card at a bank ATM for cash as needed.

"What should we see in all these cities " We cannot write a guidebook for you since we don't know your preference. So, go to your local library and check out DVDs and decide what is important for you.

"Most economical budget friendly way to eat" Heavy use of local grocery stores for breads, cheese, fruits picnic lunches and dinners. Your budget will barely allow any restaurant meals.

"Best Budget way to travel to these cities." Advance sale of discount tickets for trains. Trains take you center city to center city with min additional expense.

I’m not sure the cost of a trip to Switzerland 10 years ago is comparable to the cost of a trip to Switzerland now. You would have to adjust inflation which means your trip is going to cost more now than it did 10 years ago everything cost more today than it did couple years ago. And Switzerland no exception.

Yes, budget travel is full as possible as I said, I’m doing a very budget trip to Spain later this year but I went to Spain a decade ago for less money than I’m going this time.

I I don’t think any of us are saying that budget travel is not possible. what we are saying is this trip, with four expensive locations, is probably not possible with this budget

While I applaud your budget travel, costs from 10 years ago really aren’t relevant in calculating a budget in today’s dollars. All prices have changed due to inflation/rising costs, Covid aftermath and supply/demand.
The OP needs to do lots of research to find out today’s costs and if $2000 without airfare and London lodging is doable. It will be a huge challenge.

In 2005 my wife and I did a Europe trip at $200 a day. We were in our mid-30s, didn't stay in hostels. The $200 a day excluded long distance transit but including everything else.

It was a generally comfortable amount of money to spend. Going lower would have meant sketchy hotels and hostel dorms.

€1 in 2005 is €1.50 today in buying power.

Therefore, I would recommend $300 a day budget as a more realistic amount. Particularly because you are traveling to expensive places.

I will say that because you have free accommodation in London, and because it appears that you will spend close to half of your time in London, you ought to save quite a bit of money there, which would probably put you closer to $300 a day for the part of your trip where you're paying for accommodations, don't have cooking facilities, etc.

I was wondering if the OP, firstcome12, intends to return to this thread. It's been two days and no response. I always think it's sad when so many people take the time and trouble to respond with ideas, and are then ignored. Hopefully I'm wrong about this thread.

So very sorry. We were away.

Thank you for all your amazing ideas.
We are reading a lot and exploring our options.
As soon as we book our flights I will get back on her with all the details

All your suggestions and ideas are awesome. Thank y for taking the time to share. So appreciated

Firstcome, now you've been repeatedly beaten about the head and neck regarding budget, I'll make a suggestion regarding itinerary.

Fly London to Rome. See Rome.

Train to Venice. See Venice.

And then skip Switzerland. Two reasons: it's more out of the way with longer travel times, and it is silly expensive, with very little way of getting around that. I've done a fair amount of bicycle touring in Switzerland in the past couple years, have been able to score some fairly reasonable accommodations. But these have always been in less desirable locations. You don't have the time for that, and prime places are going to be expensive.

It's likely that what you want is to see the Alps and Alpine culture as much as Switzerland specifically. The Alps are a big mountain range, and many people would argue as beautiful in the Dolomites as anywhere. Which is handy for you - seeing the Dolomite Alps is a quick and easy shot from Venice. There is a quick and easy rail corridor north from Venice across the Alps, as little as around 6 hours to Munich. On the way, you could

Stop at Bolzano, Ortisei, Seis or Kastelruth. Visit the Alp di Suisi

Lovely authentic Alpine experience with beautiful huts, gorgeous working tradition agriculture, stunningly beautiful mountains, great food, etc.

Then train to Munich. Fly home from Munich.

This would be a really efficient way to visit the places you want to go and see the things you want to see.

Rome 3-4 nights
Venice (or Padua and then very easy day trip into Venice) 1 night
Kastelruth 2 night
Munich 2-3 nights

You'd be best off if you could commit nine nights to this sort of itinerary.

You could reverse the itinerary as well, ff miles might work better one way than the other.

Consider also that the shorter hop from London to the continent can often be done quite cheaply. Worth checking discount airlines.

Anyway, do a little bit of video watching etc on some of the destinations mentioned above, might make for a more pleasurable and efficient itinerary :)

Have a great trip regardless of where you go!

Hi, firstcome12, sorry I misjudged you and I'm glad you made it back!

One more thing, you say no gondolas. Maybe this is about cost? Or fear of heights? In either case, you should know that you can easily get to Alpe di Suisi by bus or cable car, cable car not a Switzerland price for the ride.

Oh and one more one more thing: if budgets suggested above feel high to you, remember that saving/apportioning off the funds is a separate thing from spending them. Allowing for the higher budget is important so that you don't run into problems, but you also might not have to spend the money once you're boots on the ground.

I'll throw this into the mix. There are cheaper accommodations at hostels. Many hostels include breakfast. There are 'family friendly' hostels, which mean no college students and party's. And there are many with a mix of ages. These run approximately 25-50/night. The other idea is rooms in people's homes. You can find this on sites like Airbnb. You typically get a room and use of the kitchen, which is another good way to save money. It really depends on what you mean by frugal. I dont think the Rick Steve's cohort stays in hostels much. I suspect most of us middle-aged and above prefer something a little more comfortable. But I have made very thrifty choices in my travels to be able to make them happen at all. I dont know if you can do it on your budget going to the places you mention. But for the sake of your spreadsheet, you could look at these options. Happy 40th and a bittersweet congrats on the empty nest!

You may need to buy bottled water in Rome and Venice.

Why?

You won’t need to buy water in Rome. There are drinking fountains everywhere

There are so many excellent ideas you have given.

Update:

1. Airmiles will cover cost from JFK-Lon, London to Rome, Rome to Geneva and Geneva - wJFK as per our research tonight

2. Airmiles will also cover mid range hotel lodging in Rome

3. We decided to stay with friends in Huemoz, Switzerland and do a day trip if weather is good to the Matterhorn
   Do not need budget for sleeping or food. We have added a couple days to our vacation to stay for 3 days in Huemoz.

4. Every location we chose except Venice, has deep significance to us.

5. Appreciate all of your input. We have read everyone of them
   Thank you for your time.

6. Will post our itinerary when tickets are bought.....goodnight

Looking for ideas on whether using our airmiles is the best way to fly to Rome? Geneva?

The fees with airlines are so costly even with airmiles

What economy airline is the best?

Should we take the train?

Our reading and research is overwhelming.

Haha, budget is $2,000 per person. Many have asked and it was not clear

What a relief to know your trip budget is $4000. You won’t have to watch every penny you spend.

I have found that the taxes really vary airport to airport. Most expensive is usually flying into Heathrow. (not uncommon for it to be 250.00 or so. I bought our tickets using miles last month and was surprised at the taxes out of Germany varied between 124 and 156, but again varied by airport so I would say look at several cities and compare. Also flying into and out of a city may have a different tax burden. We're flying into Brussels and there were hardly and only paid 23.00 per person.

Hey there OP, glad we didn’t scare you off & delighted you’re taking up the call to the EXCEL spreadsheet, it will be a useful lesson. How about adding a column for transportation and TIME it takes to transit? (1/2 day per location transfer is a safe bet, or longer.)

Thanks for the PS clarification this trip is $2,000 PER PERSON, $4,000 total WHEW. OK that’s not too tough if you, as someone else said, "PLAN, PLAN, PLAN".

“We decided to stay with friends in Huemoz, Switzerland and do a day
trip if weather is good to the Matterhorn. Do not need budget for
sleeping or food. We have added a couple days to our vacation to stay
for 3 days in Huemoz.”

YAY! OK, we can stop giving you alternative ideas about going to Zermatt. However, if you fly into Geneva, it’s looking like a 3.5 hours by train to Zermatt. And I assume you’d have to transit via the main station? So that could be 4 hours each way, AND you’d have to build in a buffer to get back to your onward flight, if you choose that route.

@Hank, “Now you've been repeatedly beaten about the head and neck..” HAHA.
OK, one more stab at the air travel portion -

IF you’ve decided your days into Rome, out of Geneva or Venice to London, I would book the transatlantic asap, but I’m not a Delta flyer so do look at the connections on a Delta partner airline. Personally, I wouldn’t waste my precious air miles inside Europe, unless it gave back big benefits. I’d rather save them for travel to Europe! I do airline searches on Google Flights, (AND check alternative airports, someone mentioned flying out of Stansted, which is much closer to London than LHR, into Verona, that's 1.5 hours from Venice by train, might be a cheap alternative). Use the 'day grid' below your flights to check a few days ahead and back, sometimes much cheaper, play around with it & see what discount airlines toss up. BUT you may not realize Delta has no obligation to fly you home if you book on a cheap airline that's not in it's alliance & you miss your connecting flight.

Hmmmm, travel really IS a lot of work, but I still love it.

Thank you. Yes...working on spreadsheets!

BTW, since we added a couple more days to trip do you all have any suggestions on whether we fly to Geneva from Rome or Venice or take the train. The fees with airlines points to fly from Rome to Geneva were outrageous:(
If train any suggestions.

Tickets are bought with airmiles points from JFK to London!!!! So excited for that portion.

Good morning. Any info. We are trying to decide on flights and hotels and nailing all of that done...qirmiles could cover mid range hotels nut fees are crazy

I have checked monastery stays but need comfortable beds
Thank you

I looked up the train schedules and prices between Rome or Venice and Aigle, CH, the closest main train station to Huémoz. It would be a faster and cheaper journey from Venice, around 7 hours plus or minus.

The cost on the Swiss rail site SBB.ch varies, depending on the day, but looks to be around 90-100 CHF per person.

On the Italian rail site the cost for tickets 2 months in advance is around 90€ from Venice to Aigle for the fast direct train, which would be the easiest, but it gets in very late, like 10:30 pm. Other trains have 3-5 changes on the way.

These are approximations because tickets for September-October travel are not available yet. But the key with cross-border tickets is to buy 3 months or so in advance to get a discounted fare (“Smart” fare on Trenitalia) for the Italian section and into Switzerland (if on the same train).

How do these prices compare to airfare to Geneva? Remember you will have to add train fare from Geneva airport to Aigle, unless your friends can pick you up in Geneva.

Firstcome12, you might want to start a new thread for hotel information. Since this thread started a conversation about budget, then flights, your hotel info request will probably be lost.

Regarding your comment about monasteries, I stayed in a monastery in Salzburg. Although the room was sparse, all the basics were there, the bed was comfortable and the people nice, but no TV. For a solo traveler it was a good experience at a very affordable price.

In Venice I recommend B&B Corte Campana. They only have three rooms, each with a private bath. This year my room is $145 + city tax per day. That is a discounted rate for 5 nights stay. I stayed there in 2022. This year it’s my splurge room since the Florence and Rome hotels are monasteries as I mentioned before. Owners Riccardo and Grace are lovely people. It’s a 5 minute stroll to San Marco. https://www.cortecampana.com/

Thank you all. I don't feel so lost now. I have some good info here.
I appreciate all of the time you took to respond.

Excellent! Come back to us and let us know your progress, always interested in hearing how things work out!

Before I offer any suggestions, just a quick thing I thought was amusing. Your originally mentioned Venice, and then regarding mountains, mentioned “no gondolas.” I had to think about that for a moment, picturing the special Venetian boats used to ply the canals. Then it occurred to me that, in the Rockies here in Colorado, and undoubtedly up there in Canada, a gondola is a dangling cabin towing people up a mountain! Most people here seem to use the term “cable car,” but of course in San Fransisco, California even that is an entirely different thing. Then a bigger mountain gondola around here is often called a “tram,” the same term used to refer to some inner-city transportation on rails in Europe, and totally different! Anyway …

Which is the best cheap airline? The one with the lowest price, with the destination and a schedule that meets yours. They’ll all get you there, so don’t pay any extra. Be aware that the final price can be different than the initial price advertised, if there are additional fees for letting you carry on luggage or other things for which they charge. We flew with great success on Norwegian this past fall, although they probably won’t be an option where you’re going. Same for Vueling, I imagine. We’re going on Ryan Air this spring. Above, Pat mentioned strict policies with Easy Jet. A few years ago in Greece, they insisted we put our bags in their bag measuring cage at the airport. The bags were each shorter and narrower than their limits, but both the soft sided and expanded hard-case bag, stuffed, were a bit thick to slide in easily. With a bit of pushing and tugging, each bag squeezed inside the cage, meeting the size limitation. It was the only time we’ve ever had to do that, with any airline.

Cash? Don’t get it at home - too expensive exchange cost. Also, don’t get it at the airport in Europe, same reason. If you’ve got a credit card with no international charge fees, that’ll be your primary way to buy things. But for spending cash, after you’ve gotten into the city in Italy, withdraw €200 from an ATM on the street, or one at a bank. Swiss Francs are, of course, a separate money. For just one day, skip getting Francs. For pounds in England, wait to withdraw from an ATM until you get there.

The Matterhorn is iconic to view, and Zermatt is a fantastic place. My one time was a ski trip, 21 years ago. For what it’s worth, we flew to Frankfurt, Germany (easy, relatively cheap direct flight from Denver), then went by train from there to Zermatt. Germany might not be your best place to fly in for your itinerary, but I thought I’d mention it. Are their overnight trains to Zermatt from one of your other destinations, and you could skip needing lodging that night, sleeping on the train?

Again thank you for your response

Haha, I realized that gondolas in Venice are different than gondolas in the Canadian Rockies!!!

I appreciate all the tips.
Have been reading most days. Our London and Rome portion of trip is basically planned, tickets bought... We are going to see the Matterhorn!!!!
Spending 3 days near Zermatt...love those airmiles!!!

Will continue to keep you posted as we finalize the travel and lodging.
Thank you once gain

Good evening. Our planning is going well. Lots of reading.
Working on an itinerary now.
Will probably start a new thread asking for some advice

Want to one very nice dinner in Rome. If anyone has a suggestion, would appt it

We are not crazy about pasta;(
We are non alcoholic.
Budget $150 for the evening

Thank you

If your transpirtation to Europe is covered by FF miles, and your. hotels also, then your budget should be good.

If you want to see the Matterhorn, then do it. I think that might require more than just 1 day in Switzerland. I have only been in the sumner when the peak played hide and seek with clouds - very frustrating, but finally one morning no clouds - WOW.

Between London and Rome, fly. Train probably best for other journeys.

As long as you can handle the luggage, carry-on only is not necessary. I do carry-on, unfortunately my wife doesn’t !

In Venice take a vaporetto from the train station all the way to St.. Mark’s. Certainly visit St. Mark’s. Be sure to have knees and shoulders covered !! I would also include the balcony. Frequently a visit is paired with the Doge’s Palace. I would skip that, but it might interest you. Wander around. Duck into a any church you pass.

OK, so you’re not crazy about pasta. Do you feel the same way about rich, rice risotto? ;). Or potato-based gnocchi? 8-)

For very nice (but not over-the-top-luxurious, Michelin-starred) Roman meals, I have 3 suggestions, all in our favorite Testaccio neighborhood. I had a fourth, which was one notch fancier, but from the last two times there, the attitude seems to have changed, so that if you’re not an Italian local, you’re just a tourist, and they want your money and then to get you quickly out of there, so the fourth one is no longer welcoming.

Most favorite, with exceptional food and a nice-enough atmosphere, and you’ll likely come in well below €150: Lo Scopettaro. Risotto isn’t on their menu, and while their pasta is fabulous, so is the rest of their non-pasta dishes. Website is only in Italian - https://loscopettaroroma.com/

Next, and they have outdoor dining (which in Italy unfortunately usually means lots of cigarette smoking at surrounding tables), but also a semi-private room upstairs, above the main floor: Da Bucatino - www.dabucatino.it .

Another suggestion Perilli - https://www.perilliatestaccio.com/ .

Testaccio was once Rome’s meat packing district. The slaughterhouses have been converted to an educational and arts center, but can still be visited - hanging meat hooks still visible. In the old days, many workers didn’t earn much salary, and were paid with the cast-off parts of the cattle. Creative cooks made actually delicious meals from less-desirable organs and other cuts. Nowadays, in addition to more standard beef, pork, and poultry dishes, some of the offal favorites are still on some Testaccio menus. While I’m not much of a fan of liver, tripe, or beefhearts, one exceptionally delicious main course is Coda alla Vaccinara - braised oxtail. The meat is tender and flavorful, in a savory tomato sauce. Meatballs are another specialty, but served on their own in a sauce, not on top of spaghetti.

Thank you all...keeping all these ideas and suggestions in our excel sheet....

You guys have truly helped us planned this trip. Can hardly wait for September.

What is your must see in Rome....I have read a lot of your info on this thread and elsewhere.

So here is our list...please add or take away;)

1 colosseum ( hoping we can get tickets to get the underground)

1. Pantheon

2. We want to walk the Appean Way
   and stop to see the catacombs this is a very high priority.

So these are a must. We have 3 days.

Thank you.

My opinion is that the Palatine Hill is more interesting than the Colosseum. It shouldn't be missed.

Thank you...have that on our list

A pretty short walk from the Colosseum is the San Clemente Basilica. Rome has a church around every corner, and most have at least one notable piece of art (painting, statue by Michelangelo or another master, etc.), but this one has more. In addition to a “modern” church (well less than 1,000 years old) at ground level, there’s an older church underneath that, then a section of a street from Rome 2,000 years ago under that, complete with remnants of a home and an ancient Roman mithraeum, a worship room from a cult at the time. There are other archaeological finds under there, too, including the tomb of St. Cyril, who invented the Cyrillic Alphabet used today in Bulgaria, Russia, and other places east of Italy. It’s a fascinating place, stacked with history, and if you only pop into one church in Rome, this one’s special.

Like so many things in Europe these days, they want you to have your entrance for the archaeological underground part prearranged before you arrive. Look it up online for ticket details. It’s well worth a very memorable visit on one of your three days.

Hi again, you would see more of the Appian Way if you take a bike tour, as the area is large and many of the tours include the catacombs. This has been recommended by others on the Forum (we ran out of time so took a taxi) to the Museum of the Walls, which was FASCINATING. "Museo delle Mura". https://www.museodellemuraroma.it/

We saw bike tours that stopped at the museum as well. https://www.topbikerental.com/nuovosito/eng/tour-rome/ancient-appian-way-catacombs-and-roman-aqueducts-in-rome-italy

Thank you all once again for these great ideas.

Switzerland is scary expensive- just nuts. But some of the scenery is surreal. I would follow RS advice to stay in Interlochen and day trip to Lauterbrunen Please valley towns.

Venice is expensive and overcrowded. I hate eating out there - bad service and expensive. But there is a solution. Stay in one of the cities about half an hour away by train and you’ll get great hotel prices and much better food at a reasonable price.

With Rome I’ve always had economical hotels at too far from the train station, but seems a little rough at times - pickpockets, ladies of the evening, and troublemakers. Also the last time we went, we couldn’t even get into the Roman forum because it was sold out. so you buy your tickets early.

I would suggest London to Paris then Strausburg then Interlochen. Milan. Venice. Rome. Maybe add Sorrento And fly to London from Tome or Naples.

As for budget I assume $2k total for two people does not include airfare. So that’s about $200 a day for hotel, food, trains. That suggests hotels averaging about $100. I think you will be pushed hard. You can save money skipping meals or getting rooms with kitchens.

Travel is expensive and it’s gone up a lot since pandemic. It seems prices have doubled.

You could also save by sticking to Italy and driving. Allows you to see a lot and stay in small towns.

I agree about seeing San Clemente and staying in a convent. We stayed at one near the Colosseum and it was expensive, convenient, and comfortable.

Railrider, the OP has said the budget is $2000 each so, $4000 total.

You all are so awesome with all your suggestions

So tentative itinerary. Tickets are bought)
Fly London ( stay with relatives)
Fly Rome ( hotel 3 days)
Fly Zurich (train to Huemoz to visit friends)
Train to Zermatt ( hotel and Matterhorn)
Train to Geneva ,( hotel and walk ing tour)
Train to London via Paris ( 4 hour stopover in Paris)
4 days in London with family and some English Countryside tour
Fly home!!!

Budget seems to be adequate since all flights are covered by airmiles

Will be purchasing as many attraction tickets this week if we are able to

Thank you

Since you’re on a budget, we paid about $275 to stay a night in Zernatt. It’s a fun expensive resort town. We considered paying for the train to actually see zermatt but it was 100 eu EACH, and with clouds not sure we would see anything.

Each makes their own travel choices but I hope you will plan a second trip on the sand budget choosing the season and locations to see much more of EU. As you know, travel is not cheap. So that’s why try to get the must from each trip.

Thank you @Railroader. We have a hotel room booked on main Street in Zermatt. We were not able to use airmiles but it is $120 USD all taxes included. It was rated at a 9/10 so we booked and paid. Hopefully, it is a good experience. We will not do the Gondola but will take a train that stops at a lake that gives a fairly great view of the Matterhorn.
Unfortunately, it may be cloudy in late September. (Per our friends in Huemoz).

We had the most amazing sandwiches in Venice last summer at a little walk up place near the Rialto Bridge called L’Bacaro de Bisceri. They have great cichetti also. Sandwiches are big and cost 7-8€. Best sandwich I’ve EVER had. I ordered the Verdi: mortadella, lettuce, pesto, tomato & cheese on amazing bread. We were a group of 6 people, everybody ordered something different, and everybody still talks about those sandwiches & cichetti.

We are very cheap in our travels. We use credit card miles for flights ($10 max). We find inexpensive places to stay. But $2000 is a small number. 2-4 years ago, we were spending 1250-1500/week for everything. So, you need to find more bux to make it a reasonable trip.

Sorry...you didn't read the thread...$2,000 per person:)

I was in Zermatt for two nights in September 2022 and the Matterhorn was “out” the whole time. Beautiful. So fingers crossed for you too.

Lots of responsed already. I will add my thoughts mostly around money as I have traveled economicly the last couple of years. Your budget is very doable depending upon how much your airline tickets cost.

How is the best way to utilize our points with the airline

Book this trip about 9 months ago. Best seats and routes with mileage get taken almost as soon as they are released by the airline. Not trying to be snarky (see next response).

Suggestions re: where we should fly to etc

Wherever you can get the best deal right now. Get online tonight!

Budget but clean accomodations

Look at hostels for lowest cost (they now have private rooms for couples) and no frills hotels, like ibis. Read hostel reviews before booking.

Most economical budget friendly way to eat

Take away, ready meals and picnics from local grocery store
in Venice, Rome and Swiss Alps. Hostels can really pay off if they have a guest kitchen.

I came back tonight to read all your answers as our trip is 19 days away!

One final last minute change we are thinking of.. Would love your responses.

Here it is:

I have done a lot of research on trains with trying to get the best route to London

So we can fly but don't want to do that

So we will in Zermatt for a few days. We want to take a train from Zermatt to Paris with a 4- 5 hour layover then take train to London. We do not want to spend a night in Paris...ideally, we would like a 6:30pm train at Paris De Nord to London
We are looking at getting 2 tickets. One with SBB from Zermatt to Paris. One from Paris to London
Our budget $450USD for 2 people

I was told tonight  (August 31st, 2024) is the last night to book to get a good deal because our travel date is  Monday September 30th.  We have to get back to London since our flight is from there to home in the US

Can someone please help with ideas. Thank you

​​​​​​​

You actually can't do it for that money.

The train fare from Zermatt to Paris on the 0637 Zermatt to Paris, change at Visp and Lausanne, is 147.70 CHF (US$173).

Eurostar on that date on the 1657 or 1808 trains is £104 (about US$130) each.

As a for instance of possible flights- train Zermatt to Zurich Airport is about 77CHF each, and the evening Easyjet flight to London Gatwick is 83.45 CHF each + 61.94 CHF for a checked bag- Total of US$250 each, but you will struggle to beat that.

Flights from Geneva are cheaper, but offset by a higher trainfare.

That does seem to be about the cheapest option currently- fly from Zurich

Just thought this might be worth mention in case you weren't already aware of the Dynamic Currency Conversion pitfall? I won't go into the details as there's been quite at bit of info on this site offered up forum posters and by Mr. Steve's himself so just give some of that a look-see? It's not a big deal if you forget on a small purchase; a bigger deal for larger ones, such as a multi-night hotel bill.
(Apologies if this was topic already covered and I missed it when reading through the thread.)

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/chip-pin-cards
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/budget-tips/recent-example-of-dynamic-currency-conversion

This is an older thread but still applies:
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/switzerland/dynamic-currency-conversion

Have a great trip!!!

You will want a multi-city itinerary with Delta or any other airline. Fly into the first city you will visit. Fly out of the last city you visit. Regarding the use of Delta SkyMiles, a few suggestions:

1. Do you have an American Express card through Delta? If you do, there is a 15 percent reduction in the number of SkyMiles needed to book your trip. It may be worth the cost to get one if you don't already have it.

2. Delta requires a good number of SkyMiles for international travel. For instance, were you flying into and out of London, a really good deal--with the 15 percent reduction--would be a number close to 85,000. The good thing about using SkyMiles is that you can constantly check the Delta website for the number of Miles charged--it can change several times in a week--and cancel your original booking for a new one charging fewer Miles. I find that often the best deals are about four months before your travel date. Plus, if you book your flights months in advance, Delta will change your itinerary once or twice, giving you the chance to see what flight options you have.

3. If you are using Delta Miles, note that you cannot use them if you are flying into or out of smaller cities. Usually, with SkyMiles, you will need to fly into and out of the major airports like London, Amsterdam, Paris, and Milan.

So tentative itinerary. Tickets are bought)
Fly London ( stay with relatives)
Fly Rome ( hotel 3 days)
Fly Zurich (train to Huemoz to visit friends)
Train to Zermatt ( hotel and Matterhorn)
Train to Geneva ( hotel and walking tour)
Train to London via Paris ( 4 hour stopover in Paris)
4 days in London with family and some English Countryside tour
Fly home!!!

Are you trying to 'see a bit of Paris' in that 4 hours, or just giving yourself enough time to get from one train to the next and clear the border crossing formalities?

Has the night(s) in Geneva been eliminated?

Lost on me why you want to spend all day on trains vs a 1 hr 40 min flight.

Hope you have fun