UK to impose quarantine on air travelers

While I did not think my meeting would occur next month in London anyway, this must have been what put the nail in the coffin (they cancelled just today). Would have made a week long meeting a bit hard.

So where will a traveling visitor quarantine - a hotel, an airbnb house, a detention center? And what if someone exhibits symptoms within the 14 days - are they deported, or dispatched to an NHS facility for treatment?

The story the in the link includes this: “If a quarantine is needed now, some will question why it was not necessary weeks ago.” Yes or no, you can’t change what didn’t happen, and can only move forward. But if it’s necessary, why wait until later this month?

I didn’t see the part about Ireland exceptions in the story ... maybe I missed that. So are Manx citizens exempted, too, if they possibly decided to make the trip, as the Isle of Man is even closer to Wales/England/Scotland than is The Republic of Ireland? But essential workers like lorry drivers are exempted anyway, so there’s an exception to the rule, however essential the rule may be.

Possibly fly to Ireland and then to LHR?

The Independent newspaper is suggesting the UK do what Austria has done.

Austria has a 14 day quarantine on arriving passengers. But arriving passengers also have an option to go to a medical facility near the airport, pay 190 euros for a coronavirus test and wait three hours for the results. If they are negative, the passenger can forego quarantine and go about their business.

BigMike, I thought of that too. But I am sure the passport checker at the border will notice your recent arrival in Ireland of less than 14 days. Of course if you spent 14 days already in Ireland, then I guess it wouldn't be an issue.

Frank II, I constantly think why don't we just do that at every airport anyway? I won't state my thoughts on why we won't here as it might be seen as a political rant. Have the test, give it to all arriving passengers. Those who pass are free to go, the others would have suitable options.

Ireland is probably exempt because of the common border. The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are also border free with the UK.

The other questions still need to be answered which is why the quarantine is not taking effect immediately.

So one pays the 290 EURO and is negative only to turn positive the next day? Doesn’t make sense.

So one pays the 290 EURO and is negative only to turn positive the next day? Doesn’t make sense.

That means they would have to catch it in Austria. The passenger is not bringing another case into the country.

The reason we don't test at airports is because we don't have the tests.

Frank your heading should be a question not a statement. This is speculation from the airline industry and not an official government announcement as yet. We should have cracked down on this weeks ago and made it compulsory quarantine in detention centres, not just a stay at home advice, then we wouldn’t be in the mess we are currently seeing.

Key workers are struggling to get tested here so there’s no chance of this being available at airports for all and sundry any time soon IMO!

As Jennifer has stated, it's a plan that's being mooted but has yet to be officially implemented.

The idea is that people will provide an address and are expected to self isolate for 14 days! The naievety from some in government is beyond belief at times.

Ireland is probably exempt because of the common border. The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are also border free with the UK.

It is because of the Common Travel Area.

As Jennifer has stated, it's a plan that's being mooted but has yet to be officially implemented.

It is not happening in a void. It is a common proposal coming from many of the Schengen countries and the UK will need to get in line to avoid being on the Schengen third country list.

Clearly for the Schengen to open up its internal borders, a common approach will have to be reached and I cannot see how that will not include a quarantine period at this stage, if an agreement is to be reached.

The most likely outcome, in my opinion (I have no official information on that, just the published discussions of the European Commission), is that intra-Schegen travel will be re-established pretty soon subject to local restrictions first, then sometime later in June without special restrictions. All countries in the Schengen area are now in a sort of "post-peak" phase, and strains on the health systems are not acute or severe as some weeks before.

This would also provide an important economic boost for some of the economically worst-hit countries like Italy and Spain, since Northern Europeans are itching for some summer travel.

I also think some sort of 14-day self-confinement for arrivals from outside the Schengen place will be required for a couple months. There is a backlog of people who need to move/relocate, from couples that have visas to live together to long-term international students and foreign workers coming on visas. Short-term overseas tourism would still be severely affected.

Several European universities announced they will limit participation on exchange programs this next fall semesters to students from the EU/EEA/Switzerland only, for instance. It is a way to keep things somehow normal while avoiding a repetition of the scenarios with hundreds of overseas students stranded and needing repatriation flights as in March.

This is a very scary suggestion which I hope no government ever considers here in Europe.

quarantine in detention centers

Unless someone requires hospitalization, thus staying in an isolation room with the normal trappings of such, the idea of confining people to effective civil prisons in a custodial situation just in case they don't self-isolate at home is a gross violation of basic human rights. Yes, the State can and maybe should punish people who violate orders, but nobody should be incarcerated on the presumption he or she might violate health orders.

JC, that was my thought. Is the government verifying if one is actually self-quarantining?

We had similar problems in the U.S when people were "advised" to self-quarantine, but we know human nature.

Or we could just wait to see what, if anything, is announced? It's pretty pointless to speculate based on the few details provided by some BBC cockwomble who is himself speculating based on what has been fed him by a group who are opposed to the whole idea anyway,

However, since I'm also in speculation mode, I'd just point out that plans involving people don't assume 100% compliance. Instead assumptions (or guesses, if you prefer), are made on what the level of compliance will be, whether that is good enough, or whether it is worth the effort of increasing compliance through physical means or extra checks. Or, indeed, whether the plans should be abandoned entirely.

PS IoM is a crown dependency and most people living on the island are British citizens.
PPS And a bit more idle speculation - excluding RoI is likely more to do with domestic and international politics than any health driven criteria. This virus might be tiresome, but that's nothing compared to the problems of introducing a hard border for people moving between the UK and the Republic (or even GB and "all Ireland"). Nobody wants to open up that can of worms just now.

JC, that was my thought. Is the government verifying if one is actually self-quarantining?

Allegedly there will be spot checks by inspectors but no-one knows who these checks will be conducted by, the police? Border Force? NHS staff? None of these have sufficient resources to be undertaking checks to ensure everyone is self-quarantining.

It always fascinates me...and the 'old saw' that "...no-good-deed-goes-unpunished..." seems as fresh as ever! Here we are in the 3rd or 4th month of something no one has experienced in these times. Sure, there were warnings, but like complaining about any-darned-thing in ex post facto, the only thing a complaining about it does...is brand the event for the nest time.

There is a problem...pretty obvious. There are subject matter experts who are working on many levels...but, dear friends, this has been only 3-4 months. It's good to be impatient, it's fine to blame someone...but the resolution comes when we all "think together" and not "...lose our heads and blame it on one another..." (Thanks to Rudyard Kipling and his essential-read poem: "IF")

Looks like Europe is off the board this year...so...plan for next, stay safe and wise so you can make the trip...do responsible things.

I just cancelled all my accommodations for September. We had already cancelled May and planned on trying again but I give up.

Here is a more up to date article from the Financial Times:

https://www.ft.com/content/96c81794-633e-4604-ba22-b275bcdfbfe5

It basically says Boris will address the country on Sunday night to lay out the plans. Airlines will be notified earlier in the day.

Brexit distracted Boris from the coronavirus in January and February. The coronavirus is distracting Boris from Brexit in April and May. No multitasking?

Oh for those days when it was all about Brexit!

Why aren't those entering, ie. returning, being quarantined now? But they are supposed to stay inside, along with everyone else. It's once others can start venturing out more, that those entering returnees will have stricter rules than the general population.

This appears to be aligning with what is happening in France. At this time one can't even board a plane to France without residence papers or citizenship, which will continue until June 15. Monday, when regulations start to loosen in some areas, rules for returning residents will include isolation. For now, none of this applies to tourists as they can't even get on the plane.

Unless someone requires hospitalization, thus staying in an isolation
room with the normal trappings of such, the idea of confining people
to effective civil prisons in a custodial situation just in case they
don't self-isolate at home is a gross violation of basic human rights.
Yes, the State can and maybe should punish people who violate orders,
but nobody should be incarcerated on the presumption he or she might
violate health orders.

One person's rights are no more important than one else. If there is treat to the community at large, then I have no problem with that person being taken into custody. We cannot have people refusing to obey the rules and putting other people at risk.

Thinking of naivete, we were actually entertaining the idea of flying to CDG in September for the Tour de France, which last I checked was still a go. The wife responded, "Uh, no." The thought of eight hours in a cylinder with someone nearby coughing and hacking was too much. As you can tell I don't always thing things through, or maybe I'm just an optimist.

JC, if an official from the NHS came for a check couldn't someone simply claim they were out shopping for "essential" groceries? Why were you gone for four hours? I got lost.

@ Jim, I concur. Sun 3PM

@ Andre L. I do not agree with your conclusion on human rights.
My country closed it borders some time ago. (So did New Zealand.) Those entering now are citizens and are being quarantined under supervision to protect the rest of the counties citizens as per article 3 of the UN document on human rights 1948. Federal and state governments agree and so do over 90% of the population. Many recalcitrates had the opportunity to return when it became obvious to the majority that COVID 19 was dangerous but chose not to.

Our 4 of the 6 individual states have closed their borders requiring 14-day quarantine for non-essential travel between states. Has made some things difficult for me and my clients. But I am alive and well and now am under no threat of contracting this virus in Tasmania. Nor Western Australia, South Australia nor the Northern Territory.

Western Australia tightened up when a bloke flew from the east coast to visit his girlfriend and was quarantined at a Perth city hotel. The news report goes that his girlfriend needed servicing, so he decided to wedge an emergency door open to allow his undetected return. Did not work. Spent the rest of the quarantine period, and a bit more at her majesty’s pleasure and paid a princely sum for his error. Not too sure who took over his servicing duties.

Let us look at the effectiveness of Australia’s quarantine regime. Against Netherlands and 2 comparable USA states.

Country Approx. Population Deaths ICU

Australia >25mil 97 19

Netherlands 17.3mil 5,422

Texas 29mil 1,111

Florida 21.6mil 1,716

Whole of Europe and USA makes comparison difficult. One could try deaths per million of population.
Nearly one third of our deaths can be linked to the Ruby Princess. All 97 deaths are unacceptable.
I leave it to the reader to come to their own conclusion on the quarantine system.
The last two days we just commemorated VE Day and the battle of the Coral Sea. Hopefully, those brave men and women from allied countries would be proud of the way this country now values the human rights they provided us with.
May I suggest that you take a trip down the road to the International Court of Justice and ask the librarians there to gather reading material to round out your understanding of the term human rights and how it came about and some case histories. I have found them to be most helpful on other matters. Democracy has no intrinsic moral value. The majority get to decide the rules. Well usually.
In conclusion my scales of justice appear to balance differently to you. The human right to see things differently is yours and mine. Others may arbitrate. Stay healthy and safe. Regards Ron

JC, if an official from the NHS came for a check couldn't someone simply claim they were out shopping for "essential" groceries? Why were you gone for four hours? I got lost.

Being in quarantine means you do not fall into the category that is allowed out shopping for anything...

Hawaii is an example...they seem to have a good system - at least on Oahu. They are even arresting travelers who leave their hotel rooms for ANYTHING. I realize Oahu is smaller and Honolulu is not London but if you are dumb enough to still travel to Hawaii you are quarantined up to 14 days in your hotel not sure what they do if you rent a condo though. You keycard for your hotel room only works once to get in then you have to ask for another key so they can track your movement.

And Hawaii is doing a good job even though their economy is largely tourism based. I have read of fines of $5000 can be levied against violators.

Boris has just announced that people arriving into the U.K. on flights will have to quarantine for 14 days. No other details have been given, so it’s all guesswork until further clarification is given.

I watched Boris' speech. He made a mention of a 14 day quarantine for air travelers but no details. He did also say that he was hoping to open up some of the hospitality industry by July 1.

Jim, then what would one do for food and medications? Delivery?

Well the point being to discourage travelers not to make it easy, right? Quite a burden on a hotel, especially the smaller ones, expecting to be your keepers for two weeks. I imagine most of them would not want to accept a reservation for foreigners.

but if you are dumb enough to still travel to Hawaii you are quarantined up to 14 days in your hotel not sure what they do if you rent a condo though

Right now all short-term rentals are disallowed in Hawaii until the governor releases another proclamation on this. At your incoming airport you need to state where you are saying, and they cross-reference that with property tax records and other records, so they can tell if you are intending to stay in an illegal condo rental. I have not read any news reports yet of authorities catching unpermitted vacation rentals this way, but it is sure to happen.

They are also now not allowing anyone subject to quarantine to rent a car. This just went into effect.

Most of the reports have been of tourists just willfully ignoring the rules that they signed off on at the airport and then being sent home.

TassieDevil, much appreciate your post.

From the initial reports I have read after Johnson’s speech, it doesn’t seem like much light was shed.

So what is to prevent someone from, say, flying to Paris and then taking the train to London?

This whole idea of quarantine upon arrival is dumb in my humble opinion. (For tourists.) Either say that your country is closed to tourism until X date or open it up.

So what is to prevent someone from, say, flying to Paris and then taking the train to London?

You would first need to get into France: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/france/france-closed-to-tourists

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52544307

The UK and France have since issued a joint statement saying
quarantine measures do not apply ''at this stage'' to those crossing
between the two countries.

This whole idea of quarantine upon arrival is dumb in my humble
opinion. (For tourists.) Either say that your country is closed to
tourism until X date or open it up.

How would the country ascertain the health status of the incoming tourist absent a vaccine or some kind of indicator that the person is safe to come in? Let's recall how the virus was seeded in multiple continents to begin with - lack of any controls for international travelers, many or most of whom were asymptomatic carriers. At least a quarantine is a flexible, interim approach that makes both the country and the tourist better off. Otherwise, the tourist will likely not be able to enter at all in the immediate term.

Every single destination referenced in a related thread has a quarantine requirement, they are pretty consistent. (https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/travel-reopening-plans-for-tourist-destinations-nyt)

Jim, then what would one do for food and medications? Delivery?

Yes, organized via social services from what I have read....

I'm a bit dense but maybe the EU simply needs to say "stay out" for whatever period it is. I can't imagine any tourist entertaining the idea of quarantining for 14 days. Keep the message simple.

Exceptions for taking care of grandma, etc., but you get to enjoy 14 enclosed days with her.

Details weren’t given today, but the article mentioned that those entering would have to give a residential address, not a hotel.

UK and France are saying "stay out" unless you have essential reasons for travel, and wondering around museums isn't essential. If you have essential travel, then travel but expect to be quarantined for 14 days.

Guernsey, Channel Islands has had quarantine (14days) in place since the end of March, that is for antwhere outside our Bailiwick. So if you fly in from Jersey or Uk you are quarantined. But we have also nearly closed our boarders, only one flight a day, emergency medical needs and no passenger boats. Freight is driven on to the ferries, the containers left on there and local truck collect when they arrive (as normal). Really proud of our island and government during this crisis.

Well, they cant make the airlines the enforcement arm of the government, to screen out tourists from people who have valid reasons to enter. And they cant reach over to a foreign country and prevent people from boarding the plane. Same thing going on with travel to Hawaii right now. If a fourteen-day quarantine doesnt discourage people from going at all, the responsibility should be on the traveler too deal with the consequences. I'm sure they'd much rather those persons turned around and got on the next plane out so they dont have to track them. I know there are a lot of people who are blissfully unaware that there might be a problem with their vacation plans, but thats not the airlines or governments' fault at this point.

Caro, I was wondering how Guernsey was managing in this crisis. It seems like the infrastructure, natural borders, and small population is a blessing at this time. - I will get to visit Guernsey again someday.

I canceled my plans to visit the UK in July of this year (along with my plans to visit Germany/Austria). More than anything else, I was looking forward to visiting my twin, older sister, and brother in England. I could potentially quarantine at one of their houses for 14 days - but I feel that I would not want to risk it. Even though my county in Missouri has had a very small number of cases and no active cases now, I am not going to travel outside of the USA this year. Too much anxiety and uncertainty - I also have family members on both sides of the Atlantic with weak immune systems. There are many of us that are disappointed about a vacation, but missing family this year is just sad for me.

Margaret

Actually Stan, the airlines are the enforcement arm. It's no different from what they did before, denying boarding to someone who didn't have the requisite number of valid months left in the passport. The fine for flying that person over is too high.
For France, until June 15, you can't board if you don't have either French nationality proven via the passport or identity card (edit: and France is your primary residence, not secondary), or permanent residence, or a temporary residence visa that was issued before the French shutdown began.
I don't know how England is handling this.

@Bets, OK, but its not illegal to fly to the UK, you just have to be quarantined. So I can see the airline informing the traveler of the requirement, but actually prohibiting someone from boarding, in another country? I'd really like to know.

If the UK wanted to prohibit all non-residents from coming over, they could do it explicitly like your France example. I based my admitted assumption on what I heard the governor of Hawaii (yes I know its a state) say - that he can't prohibit tourists from flying there, but can enforce a quarantine when they arrive.

Stan— could it be because no visa is required for Mainlanders to go to Hawaii, no national boundaries crossed, no visa required, tourist or resident. I’d say BA should know, but they’re probably as confused as the rest of us.

Bets, but see, thats whats got me confused. There is no visa required for a US citizen to enter the UK, or prohibition of entry (not saying there shouldn't be), and the UK is not denying entry - you just have to quarantine. Denying you service doesn't seem like a decision the airline gets to make. They shouldn't be required to transport you home like they do for an invalid passport. If you dont agree to the quarantine, thats on you. I am just curious as to how this is actually being implanted.