Planning for three months in Europe

First, make sure your three months does not exceed 90 days (Schengen rule).

It appears that the 3 months is going to include time in England (the Cotswold or Lake District of England) and Turkey (Istanbul); in that case the Schengen should be no issue.

As to housing, I use VRBO.com a great deal. This is a sister-site to HomeAway. I also use Booking.com, especially if I think there is a chance I will haver to cancel as their cancellation policies are usually quite generous.

BTW, we are just wrapping up a week in Lauterbrunnen where we had a fabulous 2-bedroom apartment I found on VRBO.com. PM me if you are interested in staying on the valley floor.

I am confused about the last post. I thought if I entered Schengen say via Spain and stayed one month, then I flew to England and stayed a month, then entered Schengen again via Amsterdam and stayed another month before flying home, wouldn't my passport prove how long I actually stayed in the Schengen zone?

Steve, Kaeleku has it right.

That's because they are "carrying you" into the Zone and back out. They have no control over the 'in-between' - whether you will or will not interrupt your stay.

The answer is indeed planning to spend the time in Istanbul or England at either end.

Since Istanbul is in the plan, and since I personally like Turkish Airlines, I would consider something nutty like buying a round-trip ticket to Berlin or Lisbon with Turkish Airlines (with a connection in Istanbul). Then I would build in a long stop-over in Istanbul, either on the way in or the way out. May is lovely in Turkey! ;-)

Air Berlin has good connections to all of the points you mention Bob, as does Easyjet, RyanAir, etc.. Zigzagging across Europe by air is not as crazy as it sounds...

Yes, but his point was it is the AIRLINES that would not let you do it out of fear of being fined. A work around would to be a one way ticket on one of the discounts like Icelandair.

Thanks for the clarification!

Sam, no disrespect, but a one-way ticket would not be the answer (and certainly not cheap in the long-run).

Bob,
This is complicated and it gets many people confused. Here's a recent forum link that might help -- https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/schengen-clarification-please. I hope it doesn't confuse things further.

You may already have scoped this out. If so, please forgive the detail here. If you are flying into Lisbon and out of London as your list implies, with 2-4 weeks in England, especially at the end or the beginning, it should be a slam dunk on the 90 days out of 180 for you. In addition, you will leave Schengen when you go to England and your passport will be stamped accordingly. Likewise, your passport will be stamped upon leaving the Schengen countries for Istanbul, upon arrival in Istanbul, upon departure from Istanbul and upon arrival where ever you go after that.

BTW, you will need a real visa for your visit to Istanbul. You can get that online at the "evisa" link in this website from the Turkish Consulate -- http://istanbul.usconsulate.gov/tourist_visa.html. I did ours online and printed them out at home for the trip we did last fall.

Basically, whatever time you spend in the UK or Turkey will not count toward Schengen time. Lots of different scenarios and calculation tools are mentioned in the thread I linked above.

Of the places you mention, we have only stayed in an apartment in Lisbon. We originally found it through VRBO, but since 2011 when we were there, Lisbon Apartments has really grown. Here's a direct link to their website -- http://www.lisbonapartments.com/. We stayed in the Alfama River IV -- http://www.lisbonapartments.com/alfama-river-i-apartment-5.

Have fun with the planning. It's never too soon to start.

Thanks to @Lo and all others who have helped me understand the 90 out of 180 aspect of the rule a bit more clearly. I now see that I did not appreciate the nuances. When working previously in Paris I didn't have to bend my mind around these issues. My employer had our company's resident "facilitator" walk us through the official visa stamping and registration at the OFFI on the Isle de la Cite, much to the consternation of those who had to wait in line as we were bumped to the front.

After intense discussions with my banker (my wife) we have decided to limit our trip to Prague, Switzerland and the Cotswold/Lake District. My original plan for 3 months was just too much moving around for one trip. So, the current plan is: flying into London for a few days, to Prague for 2 weeks, Switzerland for 10 days and back to England for 2 weeks of relaxation in the Cotswold/Lakes District. This keeps me out of Schengen trouble and still gets us to places we have yet to experience.

I'll be saving the link to apartments in Lisbon thanks @Lo) and regularly use VRBO, Homeaway and Booking to find apartments and hotels outside the US.

And @Laurel we have a large family group (16) and booked two apartment villas in Murren that will handle our crowd. We really loved our stay there in 2011 and this is a good chance for a return visit.

As Rick says, keep on traveling (and keep up the great feedback through this forum).

Bob

For the UK leg, why not consider going to Rutland Water rather than the Cotswolds, which are out of the way if you are heading for the Lakes? It is more en route. The Cotswolds in the summer can be unpleasantly busy with car parking problems in some of the villages.

Rutland villages are just as charming as the Cotswolds but without the crowds - old stone, chocolate box houses and nice pubs and tea shops. You can walk between villages or round Rutland Water (or hire bikes). Nearby Stamford is where Middlemarch was filmed. Oakham and Uppingham are worth visits too (within 10 miles). The distance between villages in Rutland is closer than the gems of the Cotswolds.

You could also visit the Yorkshire Dales on the way to the Lakes - rolling countryside with more sheep than people.

Airbnb and Homeaway (Owners Direct in the UK) are the best starting places or booking.com.

Despite the personal experience related by Kaeleku, my experience tends to agree with that posted by Nigel. When travellers enter or leave the Schengen area, Passports are stamped so authorities have a way of tracking the amount of time spent in the area. That was certainly the case a few days ago when I travelled from Vienna to London. The amount of time travellers spend in the Schengen zone is easily verified, even if they are going back and forth to the U.K.

Interesting question -- the airline SOLD you a ticket, took your money for passage on specific dates to specific places, but will not allow you to USE the ticket?

But if you had flown in to London with a 120-day return ticket from a Schengen location, even though you were planning to take the Eurostar to Paris the next day, the airline would have been fine with it?
What airline was this ?? Just so I can be prepared .

Are you sure there isn't something more to this than simply a >90 day limit, like passport expiration date being too close?

Yep, Laura, that's exactly it.

You can buy a ticket to go anywhere, for any length of time. Getting a valid passport, valid visas and any other clearance or documentation papers that would be required to start the trip are wholly the passenger's responsibility.

I just made a dummy booking on United for a 100 day round trip to Paris, the ticket for which they were happy to sell me. There was a line of fine print to the effect that I was responsible for all passport and visa requirements. So they are saying the ball was in my court as far as legality, but they would take my money.
Now the gate agent might prevent me from making that trip if they thought I did not have the proper visas. But they are clear that that was my problem.

"You can buy a ticket to go anywhere, for any length of time. Getting a valid passport, valid visas and any other clearance or documentation papers that would be required to start the trip are wholly the passenger's responsibility."

"There was a line of fine print to the effect that I was responsible for all passport and visa requirements. "

Both of these statements are quite true. And it's all the airlines. They have no way of knowing when you book the ticket whether the traveler's citizenship and the country's entry requirements will work or not. They also don't know if you already have necessary visas, or will get them after booking (to get some visas, you need to show tickets first). For instance, in Sam's example, a French citizen working in the US might be booking that ticket, in which case they need no extra visa at all.

The US is very unusual, in that there is no passport control on departure. But, if you are not admitted to a country, the airline not only has to fly you back at their expense, they get a very heavy fine (I remember reading somewhere that it's over $10,000 per passenger!). So, the airlines can be very strict with their interpretation of documents - even if the countries themselves are fine with them.

The airline will be happy to sell you a ticket with outbound and return date 100 or 120 or 180 days apart. They assume at this point ( purchase) that you will take care of the details ( legal requirements for long-stay visa, etc.). But when it comes to actual boarding the plane, they may require more information, and documentation of your plans. Without that that, they MAY deny you boarding. You can resolve this with proof of outbound travel from the UK, and documentation of travel from the Schengen zone to the UK in a timely fashion.

Example: we recently booked travel to and from Australia with Qantas. Our actual destination was New Zealand, which we booked separately for maximum flexibility. We booked from Oz to Christchurch on Emirates, and from Queenstown back to Oz on New Zealand Air ( the one-way flights were cost effective). Each airline happily sold us the flights. But when we arrived at Sydney airport to check in with Emirates, they would not have allowed us to board without proof of travel OUT of New Zealand---which we had in the form of the ticket from Queenstown back to Oz.

In other words, the airline requirements are different from and separate from the Schengen rules. So just make sure you have documentation of timely travel plans from Schengen to the UK and you should be fine.

In other words, the airline requirements are different from and separate from the Schengen rules. So just make sure you have documentation of timely travel plans from Schengen to the UK and you should be fine.

Thanks Lola. This simple statement is all people really need to know.

We stayed at a beautful home in the Cotswolds this last summer. It is in a tiny village but close to great sights. Send me a PM if you are interested.