Looking for most accurate estimate for a Summer Europe per diem

Like everything else these days, trying to guesstimate expenses for next year is going to be difficult. What it was last year probably won’t be anywhere near what it could be next year. This is where Google Is your best friend for items like car rental, accommodation, and the trains and lifts. None of the countries are particularly cheap, except maybe Austria, but some costs may be lower in an effort to attract tourists. There are also sites that give info on cost of living that may help for groceries, gas etc.

Good luck with your planning.

Sorry, but your brief is far too wide. How would you respond if I asked you how much it would cost me for a trip to America?

Are you having a series of hire cars or just one, presumably with a hefty one way drop fee? Car hire in July will be more expensive than the winter or spring months. Are you happy for a manual rental or must it be a more expensive automatic? Are you happy with a compact car? Try a dummy booking online for a cost estimate.

In the U.K. there appears to be significant price inflation in accommodation following Covid closures, which will probably be replicated throughout Europe. You have picked some of the most expensive locations in Europe before any inflation. Look at Booking.com or sawdays.co.uk (my go to site for charming B&Bs) for ideas of typical accommodation prices this year and assume it won’t be any cheaper next year. No one knows what the exchange rate will be.

Food prices can vary widely depending on whether you are buying a takeaway sandwich from a supermarket to dinner in a Michelin starred restaurant. A few euros per meal for the former and up to €125 a head for the latter.

What do you want to do during the trip? The cost of museum and gallery entries can add up. People watching and walking is free. Car parking can also be very expensive and add up quickly, as is fuel.

I have spent zero time in Austria and Switzerland recently and have never been to Belgium. If you have the specifics of your trip laid out, it would help us to know exactly where you plan to sleep. I'm pretty sure Bruges and Brussels are more expensive than a number of other Belgian cities, for example. I know from my own experience in 2015 that Berlin is a surprisingly affordable capital city. But perhaps you plan to spend your German time at a lake resort or spa town that's very popular?

With the already-mentioned caveat that this year (and last year and 2019) are probably not very predictive of 2022, I'd go to booking.com to get an idea of lodging costs.

I found food costs a bit lower in Germany than in Italy for the inexpensive to moderate places I went to; the quality was a bit higher in Italy, so the cost difference felt reasonable.

Meal expenses depend to a great degree on your standards (fast food to Michelin-starred is a huge range), how many restaurant meals you plan to eat each day and your consumption of alcohol. Reports on this forum strongly suggest that Swiss restaurants are much more expensive than those in many other countries (Norway being one exception). You can get an idea of what you'll be facing there by looking at menus of places that sound interesting to you (including fast-food chains if you're so inclined). Use TripAdvisor or a guidebook to identify a few places to check out.

Jennifer - great point! I cut/pasted your comments and added some replies. Any further advice you have is much appreciated.

Are you having a series of hire cars or just one, presumably with a hefty one way drop fee? Are you happy for a manual rental or must it be a more expensive automatic? Are you happy with a compact car? Try a dummy booking online for a cost estimate.

Was planning to pick up in Zurich and drop off in Brussels. Manual is fine, as is compact. Dummy booking is a great idea.

In the U.K. there appears to be significant price inflation in accommodation following Covid closures, which will probably be replicated throughout Europe. You have picked some of the most expensive locations in Europe before any inflation. Look at Booking.com or sawdays.co.uk (my go to site for charming B&Bs) for ideas of typical accommodation prices this year and assume it won’t be any cheaper next year. No one knows what the exchange rate will be.

Good - thanks. Definitely looking at middle of the road BnBs. A comfortable bed and a nice breakfast.

Food prices can vary widely depending on whether you are buying a takeaway sandwich from a supermarket to dinner in a Michelin starred restaurant.

If breakfast is part of the accommodation package, lunch will be light (or skipped) and dinner will be wherever the locals eat.

What do you want to do during the trip? The cost of museum and gallery entries can add up. People watching and walking is free. Car parking can also be very expensive and add up quickly, as is fuel.

Mostly natural beauty, hikes, etc. but will nail down museum costs. Thanks again!

Acraven - thanks for your comments. Mine woven in below:

I have spent zero time in Austria and Switzerland recently and have never been to Belgium. If you have the specifics of your trip laid out, it would help us to know exactly where you plan to sleep. I'm pretty sure Bruges and Brussels are more expensive than a number of other Belgian cities, for example. I know from my own experience in 2015 that Berlin is a surprisingly affordable capital city. But perhaps you plan to spend your German time at a lake resort or spa town that's very popular?

5 nights Lauterbrunnen, 1 night Appenzell, 2 nights Ruette, 2 nights Hallstatt, 2 nights Salzburg, 3 nights Munich, 2 nights Beilstein, 2 nights in a BnB near Koningshoeven (Abbey nearby I want to see). Probably will just jet out of Brussells and not even stay there.

Meal expenses depend to a great degree on your standards (fast food to Michelin-starred is a huge range), how many restaurant meals you plan to eat each day and your consumption of alcohol. Reports on this forum strongly suggest that Swiss restaurants are much more expensive than those in many other countries (Norway being one exception). You can get an idea of what you'll be facing there by looking at menus of places that sound interesting to you (including fast-food chains if you're so inclined). Use TripAdvisor or a guidebook to identify a few places to check out.

Excellent - thanks!

Are planning to drive from Tilburg on your departure day?

Is this a repeat trip or your first trip to Europe?

Is it just the two of you? Any mobility issues?

Nigel - yes, drive from Tilburg and return car in Brussels. The Berner Oberland portion of the trip will include our adult children. Plan is to fly from NY to Zurich as a family, take train from Zurich to Lauterbrunnen, stay 5 nights, then take train back to Zurich for the kids to fly home. My wife and I would rent car in Zurich and drive the rest of the trip. No mobility issues.

Also Nigel - yes, first trip to Europe. Have been twice to the UK and rented car both times. Thoroughly enjoyed the freedom being in a car gave us.

You might want to invest in the Rick Steves guidebooks for the areas you're interested in. He gives an estimated budget for each. Example, for the 2020 Switzerland guide he recommends $190 per person per day for room and board and an average of $55 for sight seeing. He also gives recommendations for modestly priced lodging and dining. Once you've narrowed your itinerary down, use the internet to start actually look at hotels and restaurants to see if its what you really want, where is it in relation to other sites like the train station, etc. Some websites are in English (EN or a British flag symbol) but if not Google translates helps.

I've been doing my own research for a possible diy tour of Switzerland next year - in the fall when things are a bit cheaper. I've been estimating lodging at about $250-300 for 2 and food at $75-100 each per day. Most of the hotels include breakfast though the continental version - hot drink, juice, bread, fruit, cheese, coldcuts, yogurt. We take full advantage of take out from grocery stores like Migros or Coop and restaurants in the major department stores like Manor. I'm estimating high on the food to give some flexibility for the occasional sit down meal. Also been using a website called smood.ch that is sort of a Swiss uber eats with takeout menus in different cities. Gives you an idea how expensive it is.

cj-traveler - good stuff, thanks!

5 nights Lauterbrunnen, 1 night Appenzell, 2 nights Ruette, 2 nights Hallstatt, 2 nights Salzburg, 3 nights Munich, 2 nights Beilstein, 2 nights in a BnB near Koningshoeven (Abbey nearby I want to see). Probably will just jet out of Brussells and not even stay there

At first glance you seem to be hopping around a lot. Every time you switch location you loose 1/2 day and you plan to switch 7-8 times. Plan on longer stays with day trips to maximize sightseeing time and minimize travel days. Also, if you plan to leave from Brussells it is a good idea to be there the day before you fly out to be on the safe side.
If no one else has mention this, you will pay a hefty fee for the privilege of dropping the car in a different country from the one you started out.

Nestor - Good word, thanks. May need to rethink this a bit.

A quick search found the one way drop fee is ~$500, in addition to the cost of the rental

Your question is so broad that it almost impossible to answer with any precision. However this is a good trip report with very good current numbers---

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/a-fall-month-in-italy-costs-arrangements

I personally would reevaluate the need for a car given your short time and the area you want to cover. A car can provide some flexibility but it also be a huge weight that you have to deal with.

ALL - very thankful for the advice. Keep it coming!

My rule of thumb is 2 weeks is $5000 including airfare. But since that's for single travel you'd have to adjust. To be fair, I can, and have done it cheaper, but I find if I budget that I'm usually good for the whole trip.

We go to Europe about every other year. We can say, with complete accuracy, that we spent $5500 total for a 31 day trip in 2019.

We went to Greece, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Romania, and 1 night in Netherlands.

We did airfare on CC miles. It cost nothing. We stay in inexpensive hotels ($70/night), eat out 1 meal/day, and always get the hotel breakfast.

Car fees for dropoff in a country other than the rental country are in the range of $1000.

There are many discussions here at the RSF on the choice of drive/train-public transit. For your case, I really wonder if you actually want to drive. I've driven in Germany, Austria, and these are not difficult. I speak adequate German, which helps. But there is parking, managing the car inside cities, etc. Once you have a firm idea of the trip (not at this time), identify WHEN you will be driving.

Picking up rental cars in one country and dropping it off in another usually means a steep drop fee. We dropped in same country, took a taxi across the border, etc. picked up another car. We saved 1000€ by doing that. Do a dummy booking on AutoEurope.com.

Very general question. Rental car costs will vary by type/size of car, manual or automatic, pick-up/drop off location, type of insurance you select, etc. As someone mentioned, do a dummy booking. Don’t forget the cost of the vignettes needed for Austria and Switzerland. Lodging prices are all over the map from hostels to 5 star hotels. Those depend on your preferences. Same for food. Are you buying at grocery stores, eating carry out, casual or family type restaurants, or higher end dining. Is breakfast included with the lodging. Even train tickets can vary significantly between buying in advance or last minute. If you have a rental car in larger cities, parking costs will be more than in smaller towns. Likewise, fuel costs will ultimately depend on how many miles you drive. Finally, are there costs associated with the places you intend on visiting or are most free.

Based upon car rentals and nice accommodations...figure $500 a day for both of you plus air fare- should put you in the ballpark.

If breakfast is part of the accommodation package, lunch will be light (or skipped) and dinner will be wherever the locals eat.

Where do the locals eat? Outside of a major tourist area the locals will be eating at any of the establishments that exist otherwise without their custom a place would soon close. What does exist will cater to all the tastes and price points of all the locals and many people will opt for price over quality, therefore a busy place doesn't necessarily mean the food is good.

In major tourist areas you'll likely have no idea who is local and who isn't so if you do want to enjoy a quality meal then that requires a bit of research.

5 nights Lauterbrunnen, 1 night Appenzell, 2 nights Ruette, 2 nights
Hallstatt, 2 nights Salzburg, 3 nights Munich, 2 nights Beilstein, 2
nights in a BnB near Koningshoeven (Abbey nearby I want to see).

With that plan, reconsider your use of a car. It can be useful in the alps if you want to explore the areas around Lauterbrunnen and Appenzell, but on the other hand public transport is excellent in Switzerland. But return the car in Switzerland and take the train across the border to Austria. If you are looking at staying in Rütte outside Götzis I really see no need for a car there, it is a short bus ride from the station in Götzis. However, if you want a car there you can rent one for a day. Hallstatt is not a car friendly place so I suggest you take the train there, if you want to drive through the alps, return the car somewhere and take the train the last bit to Hallstatt. From that, continue by train. Maybe rent a car for a day or two if you want to. And if you return a rental car in another country, that will be expensive.

yes, first trip to Europe. Have been twice to the UK and rented car
both times. Thoroughly enjoyed the freedom being in a car gave us.

Last time I checked, UK was still a part of Europe. While a car has its advantages, it also has some huge drawbacks. You have to find somewhere to park it, you can get stuck in traffic, it costs a lot and so on. And paying for a rental car to sit in a parking garage collecting dust when you're in Munich and Salzburg doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Badger, I think that Reutte comes from a standard Rick Steves itinerary as a non-Füssen overnight near Neuschwanstein. I expect that the "castle" is the reason for that stop. I don't think this is the Reutte up near the Bodensee.

Berner Oberland, then Appenzell, Neuschwanstein, Hallstatt, Salzburg, Mosel, Brussels is quite close to a Rick Steves tour plan in reverse. Tilburg for the abbey is slightly off the well beaten path.

The only way, and best way, to get a feel for the cost is to make a preliminary run through booking sites for hotels, transportation, day tours, etc. on your own without actually booking. We all have our priorities regarding travel and strangers can not know your’s regarding comfort, security, etc. You need to do the work and then come back with specific questions. Besides, the research is half the fun.

Just adding a friendly reminder to include travel medical insurance to your budget if your family's policies don't cover you/them abroad. Some additional insurance on the rental car may be necessary as well but as we've chosen not to drive in Europe (so far), posters on this thread who have can provide details there. Then again, as this also wouldn't be your first time renting/traveling abroad, you maybe have both insurance topics covered. :O)

This from Badger:

...paying for a rental car to sit in a parking garage collecting dust
when you're in Munich and Salzburg doesn't sound like a great idea to
me.

I would agree: seems like a waste of expensive rental + parking fees if watching the pennies?

Badger and Nigel (and everybody else) thanks very much. My wife and I did some reevaluation last night and this morning. Hitting BO with the kids by flying into Zurich and then trains/lifts/etc. before return to Zurich to see them off is pretty fixed. The big question has been how to see what we want to see from that point on. Priorities are lakes/peaks/hikes in southern Bavaria / Tirol; Hallstatt because it looks beautiful, Munich because of the beer garden, Dachau, and the city; Weltenburg Abbey Brewery b/c it's the oldest monastic brewery and I'm a pastor who also brews beer as a hobby so that interests me; traveling the Romantic Road to Beilstein; and then visiting Koningshoeven Abbey in the Netherlands because it is one of the twelve authentic Trappist breweries. I had been thinking about going into Brussels and then up to the Abbey but now I'm leaning toward avoiding Belgium altogether. There is what appears to be a lovely BnB in Moergestel and I could totally see us finishing our time there before crossing over to London (from Amsterdam if we rented a car in Amsterdam to get down to Moergestel). We'll spend a couple days visiting friends in London.

We are trying to find a sweet spot between driving and public transport with an eye toward wasting neither money nor precious time. So we're now leaning toward renting a car out of Zurich for about a week and going to Appenzell and then Ruette (which would be our home base for southern Bavaria and Tirol) before returning the car to Zurich. (Google maps shows Ruette to Zurich drive time at under 3 hours, but is that accurate?)

We would then go by train or plane from Zurich to Salzburg, and from Salzburg would take rail to Hallstatt, then back to Salzburg and then train from Salzburg to Munich. On our last day in Munich we would rent a car to go up to Weltenburg and spend the night at a BnB nearby, then the next day drive the Romantic Road to Beilstein. After Beilstein we would return the car in Cologne or Dusseldorf and take train to Amsterdam. Once in Amsterdam I don't know if it makes sense to rent a car to go to Moergestel or use public transportation of some kind. At a minimum that is two car rentals but returning in country both times and having them in places where we'd actually be using them.

Your feedback / critique / advice is more than welcome. Thanks again!

ViaMichelin indicates 3 hours might be enough time to drive from Reutte to Zurich (no stopping, getting lost, traffic tie-ups, etc.), but driving that far west to drop off a car, then turn around and spend perhaps 6 or 7 hours traveling east to Salzburg seems a big time-waster. I don't think flying would cut much time out of the trip, either.

I hope those who know that area well (I don't) can suggest a way to reorganize your itinerary. I suspect you would do best to pick up the car in Austria rather than Switzerland. How much use do you expect to make of the car before you reach Reutte? There's rail service from Zurich to Appenzell as well as within that canton; I haven't checked to see what rail route you'd need to take to go on from Appenzell to somewhere in western Austria by train to pick up a rental car. There appear to be mountains in the way.

There are no trains to Hallstatt. You can get a train to Bad Ischl and a bus on from there, or you can get a bus all the way. [See Badger's correction below. There's a train station on the other side of the lake.]

There is what appears to be a lovely BnB in Moergestel and I could
totally see us finishing our time there before crossing over to London
(from Amsterdam if we rented a car in Amsterdam to get down to
Moergestel).

Going from Moergestel to London via Amsterdam is a bit of detour, take a local train from Tilburg to Rotterdam or Brussels and then Eurostar to London.

We are trying to find a sweet spot between driving and public
transport with an eye toward wasting neither money nor precious time.
So we're now leaning toward renting a car out of Zurich for about a
week and going to Appenzell and then Ruette (which would be our home
base for southern Bavaria and Tirol) before returning the car to
Zurich.

Returning to Zürich just to return the car sounds like waste of time to me. I'd recommend returning the car in Switzerland, rent a new one in Austria and after Reutte return the car in e.g. Innsbruck and continue by train. Or just return the Swiss car in Innsbruck and pay the fee. But in the end it is not that hard to find the sweet spot, first find out what you want to see and where you want to go, then you can figure out what the best way to get from A to B is.

After Beilstein we would return the car in Cologne or Dusseldorf and
take train to Amsterdam.

If it was me I would return the car in Frankfurt, unless I wanted to see something by car between Frankfurt and Cologne.

Once in Amsterdam I don't know if it makes sense to rent a car to go
to Moergestel or use public transportation of some kind.

Public transport in the Netherlands is great, there is very rarely a need to rent a car in there.

There are no trains to Hallstatt. You can get a train to Bad Ischl and
a bus on from there, or you can get a bus all the way.

Actually there is, there is a railway station on the other side of the lake connected to Hallstatt with a ferry. Which in my opinion is the most scenic way to arrive in Hallstatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwAlXW9oOZI

We have touring the World and lived overseas. B & Bs tend to be less expensive than hotels and you get a free breakfast as well. We have toured on our own, renting a car, taking busses and trains, tour groups, cruising, etc.

If you plan your entire trip with lodgings, transportation, even check out restaurants in advance (use TripAdvisor and Kayak.com), you will spend less and waste less time.

Large European cities will generally cost more than smaller cities and towns. Still, you can find good lodging in large cities. Cities like Rome, London, Vienna, Munich, Paris will cost you from $150 to $300 per night. If you do B&Bs and you eat light for lunch or even skip lunch you can manage your meals for two persons for $75-$125 per day. Admissions to museums or day tours will run from zero to $75 per day. Transportation will depend on your mode and how much you travel. Plan on $200 for auto rental for medium sized car for two weeks.

Ways to save include:
1) rent the smaller car that fits you and your luggage;
2) skip lunch or snack. Go to a grocery store and pick up sliced meat and bread, fruit, etc.
3) Lodging doesn't have to be expensive. We have stayed in very nice places for $60 per night with breakfast included.
4) If you take the train for long distances, book your trains in advance.
5) Compare local tours with research. Also, many places you can do on your own with a guidebook.

geovagriffith - thanks very much. This forum has been awesome.

Badger - thanks for interacting with my latest post. Very helpful.

tdw - good to know, thanks!

For Germany, my wife and I average 150 Euros per day for the two of us. B&B, basic dinner, Lander train day passes

When I travel I keep very good records of ALL expenses. As a solo traveler I spend $250 a day on everything. This includes airfare, hotels, snacks, trains, metro passes, car rentals, sightseeing, meals...you name it. So my guess for two of you would be shy of $450. Not everything will double.

My all-in rule of thumb for my family of 4 is under $500/day including everything but airfare to/from Europe. That’s transportation in-Europe (car rentals, trains, whatever), food, sights, lodging. Again, that’s 4 people but you can’t just divide it by 4 to get a cost for 1, a hotel for 1 isn’t 1/4 the price of one for 4, for example, same for car rentals.

This is in no way a minimum, it could be done a lot cheaper. But it’s not a luxury trip by any means either! And I haven’t been everywhere but this has worked everywhere I’ve been.

We stay in 2 bedroom apartments in good locations, which often are the same cost as a nice but not luxury bnb or hotel. Food is a mix of cooking or picnics for cheap, simple cafes, and a splurge meal here and there. Pre-teen kids who generally eat like small adults so this is food for 4 people but alcohol for 2. We do not limit ourselves on sightseeing tickets but also don’t pay for expensive private guides. Yes to occasional tours of sights if they add value, but these are chosen selectively, most sights are done independently.

Rental cars up the cost, but often that’s offset by the fact that times when we need a car we are in cheaper places. Expensive cities like London or Paris = no car, less expensive countryside = car. But that doesn’t work everywhere, Iceland was the most glaring exception.