Limits

On our first few trips to Munich from EWR, we would go by price alone.
Air Canada to Munich via Toronto. Return... nightmare 3 different flights. Lost luggage.
Air France with a 5 hour layover at CDG. Nightmare there alone.
Swiss Air. Stop in Zurich. Overall not bad.
The caveat with these plans was our flight from Munich to eventually EWR was at 7am. Meant being AT the airport by 4:30 or so. Brutal.

We then found Lufthansa/United flight from Munich to EWR that departed at 3:20pm and arrived in NJ at 7:50pm.

We based every trip, from that trip on, on that flight home. We always had a rental car. We were able to stay in Berchtesgaden area and the Innsbruck area for our last nights in Europe because of that flight. Get up, have breakfast, relax, at 10am or so, head to the Munich airport. How nice that was.

Not sure if you are asking for comments, or just making one. But -- I'm never one slow to mouth off. First, I do agree -- these forums and the web site are very helpful and complete.

As to air flights and scheduling in general, in my own case I can obsess about details to the point that I miss some "relaxation" of the trip. To me air / train travel can be the most taxing -- just because much is needlessly confusing and unclear. What baggage is allowed, at what price -- connecting flights that may have 30 minutes or 16 hour layover and just the general lack of customer concern is depressing -- but reality. The best I have came up with is to simplify to the extent possible. Nearly always make reservations directly with the airlines and hotels directly -- may check prices vendor sites first. Saving $50, or two hours is pointless if I have just opened myself up to more possibilities that the whole thing is going to blow-up.

If my first impression was correct, yours was just a comment -- disregard the above. Travel on & enjoy.

Maybe its a function of age, but I think focusing on the price alone is a mistake. Time is more valuable to me than money when it comes to European travel, so making choices that save money but eat up limited time are a false value. It was different when I was younger and pre-spouse. But for those of us in the hinterlands, picking flight itineraries is about picking where you want to connect in the US. And sometimes that means fewer choices and paying more to get a better connection (i.e., avoiding JFK, ORD, ATL) when possible.

When you go to buy a car, would you only look at the absolute lowest possible price, to the exclusion of every other possible consideration? What kind of a car is that going to get you? How do you think you are going to feel about that car ownership experience?

I always have to shake my head at how so many people are completely mesmerized by price price price price and price only. Then those same people complain about how horrible air travel has become. Duh, Einstein...

We will avoid changing planes on the East Coast and pay more to avoid it. Direct to Europe from Portland or Seattle is worth extra $$ as I do not have to worry about connections nor deal with a long layover at IAD or EWR.

Prior to purchasing airfare, I usually do test runs on kayak and/or matrix a couple of months in advance, usually 11 months prior to the flight.
I write down the options, first from major airlines like Delta and American, but also from others like Icelandic Air, Norwegian, Turkish Air, etc. I note the connections offered along with length of delays.

I once found a fantastic fare for an overseas trip, but the connecting flight had a 12 hour layover. If the difference had been $300 or more pp, I might have taken it and gotten a hotel for a day rate and still saved big bucks, but if a couple of hundred, naw.

I did book a great deal on Delta for our last year's one way trip to Sydney, Australia (we had a TransPacific cruise coming back from Sydney to Seattle) for 45,000 miles pp from Brunswick, GA near where we live. The only problem was a several hour layover at LAX. However, I researched the airport and since Delta had a sky lounge there that had good ratings, I expected that we could relax comfortably in the lounge with free food and drinks. It turned out well, we had nice large comfortable chairs with plenty of room. We even napped a bit.

Another trick that I found was to check nearby airports. Twice, I have saved a total of $1000-1200 on trips to Istanbul and Copenhagen by flying from Orlando instead of nearby Jacksonville. JAX is only 75 miles from home and Orlando is about 150 miles farther from home, but to save that much (even thought we had to book a hotel for one night...still got reduced parking) it is worth driving two more hours.

For some of us being mesmerised by price is pretty ingrained, dating back to 1970s package holidays when price was the only possible criteria. But, these days, we have the money to be a bit less price-sensitive.

I still wouldn't pay for "business" class on a 2 hour intra-European flight.

But today we would pay extra to fly in proper PE or club for a transatlantic flight. At least compared to the 1970s, we can now afford it. Back then it was Laker or nothing.

As we all know, or will learn soon enough, the basic tradeoff is age vs. price. Applies to airfares, hotels, and various other choices. My first trip to Europe was on a moped (OK, a ship first, then a moped), I stayed in very cheap hotels (hot water was a luxury) and ate very cheap meals. At 19, it was wonderful. Now, at 74, I'll spring for Premium Economy, stay in at least 3-star hotels in rooms that don't require much or any stair-climbing, take trains or rent cars, and spend some money to eat good food in a comfortable setting. Now I can afford to go this way, at 19 I couldn't.

The interesting part of this thread is really about air travel. No one wants to get up at zero dark thirty, change multiple flights, ride in a cattle car, sit (or stand or lie) in crowded airports for extra-long layovers, etc. I wouldn't sacrifice much to save $50. On the other hand, if the saving is hundreds, what the hell, the torment is over the next day. For some folks, a painful air crossing is worth saving some money because the suffering is brief. For others, especially if age brings some affluence, it's worth some money to fly more comfortably with more convenient schedules and fewer layovers.

Here’s my travel reality. Research, reasearch and research some more. It motivates my exploration.

Plan ahead, save for it, book premium Economy airfare early on trusted airline
(most likely Virgin ), pack and take one roller bag, enjoy my comfortable direct flight, deplane and begin the trip I’ve been looking forward to for months.Going to and from by air is a cost I save for and after years and years of economy gave it up 2 years ago.
Haven’t looked back.

I travel solo off season so save some $’s that way.
Don’t use a my Capitol CC unless there is an emergency. Instead use my credit union debit card, withdraw local currency and pay cash wherever I am for everything.

Thus when I return home knowing I won’t have to wait to payoff any purchase. If I do rent a car that cost and the gas has already been factored in when I plan the journey. That is a CC bill but I’m prepared for it when it arrives a month later.

In essence I travel not fretting about cost. In all honesty it’s how I approach my life. Remembering what mama told me as a child, “ you aren’t born unhappy.” Thus I enjoy the simple pleasures.

Stress is overrated.

Agreeing with Stan and Laurel. The biggest factors in my travel now are length of flight and how many changes will be required to get me to my destination. I am the first to admit I suffer an unreasonable terror of flying; but it's not so severe that it won't allow me to actually board an aircraft. I have narrowed my flights to Europe to any that will fly non stop from Denver to Europe or the UK and if a connection is needed, I'll make it from either Heathrow or Munich. I am willing to pay extra ( not so much sacrificing a costly travel perk as a choice of where to spend my money) to do that. Of course, this was not as much as an option when money was a lot tighter!

I agree with Laurel. Well worth the extra $$$ to take a direct flight with first stop in Europe. Then if my flight is late or there are other problems, there’s a greater opportunity to find other connecting flights to my final destination. And, since I am tall, economy comfort is always a necessity for me on transatlantic flights. I’ll do basic economy on shorter, intraEuropean flights, but not on the long stretch from Oregon to Europe.

I think you're almost asking the same thing as the "Compromises" thread - what's the difference?
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/compromises

My take on this is you're in a much better position to compromise and not set hard limits when you're younger and have less discretionary funds. Frankly, the quest for comfort and freedom from all travel foibles is not the overarching priority at that stage in your life. On the other hand, when you have extra money to spend however you want, your retirement is secure, you have health issues, are older, etc., you can "buy out" of a lot of discomfort.

Having gone for a hike and somewhat clearing my mind, perhaps my question is this: What are your limits regarding travel? 8 hour layovers, 10 hour drive to an airport with cheaper tickets, willing to be stowed with luggage to save the cost of airfare, an abandoned building, or a zero star hotel because a bed is all you need and hygiene smygiene? I realize this is sort of piggy backing off the scrimp-and-splurge thread.

I have a friend with a large family who will be departing Richmond, VA for a week of skiing near Salt Lake City. Their flight departs at 0500 and the drive to Richmond is a good 90 minutes, so they would have to get up NLT 0100 to be there by 0300. I'm thinking, no way.

Agnes, you're right of course.

Nick, what does "Laker" mean?

"I think you're almost asking the same thing as the "Compromises" thread - what's the difference?"

It's Groundhog Day again.

I agree that research is your friend. Although it seems I’m always planning my next trip, it is helpful to have a good idea of regular flight prices to the places I’m likely to travel to. I don’t like to book more than 2 months in advance, but at least I know what a good flight price is. I won’t take the lowest price, as long as it’s offered, For Europe, I’m likely to take the day flight from ORD to LHR and kill most of the jet lag that night. That’s certainly worth the extra cost for me, jet lag hits me pretty hard.

Hotels must be in the location I want, regardless if I can save money staying further away. My time is important! I like the flexibility of being able to stop by the hotel to drop off anything I may have bought, and I do like to shower and change clothes before a night out.

I’ve never paid for a first class train ticket, but I’ll always look at the price difference to see if it makes sense. I’ll always make sure I’m taking the train with the fewest stops and/or high speed. Again, my time is valuable. It might be different if I was a college student with more time and less money.

BigMikeWestByGodVirginia

Laker Airways was an early "no frills" airline which introduced low cost flights from England to America in the 1970s. Skytrain was the name. Obviously, the established companies like PanAm, TWA and BA hated that and tried to destroy it - successfully in the end. Particularly, the then state run BA's dirty tricks department got to work. Later BA had to pay millions in compensation, but by then Laker had collapsed. BA tried to do the same with Virgin, but that time they failed, thankfully, and were publicly shamed. PanAm disappeared too, though for other reasons. TWA doesn't exist anymore either does it?

Thanks, Nick. You got me to thinking about some English vernacular and so forth.

Like "dear," "wanker," and "queue." (Dear meaning expensive I think.) A good American expression is "ya'all."

Without Googling I'm guessing TWA is gone. What about BOAC? Popped into my mind from "Back in the USSR." "Flew into Miami Beach BOAC..." Great rocker.

I can faintly recall men dressing in a suit and tie for a flight or heck, a football game. Women similarly dressed. Like a scene from Madmen.

My apologies for hijacking my own thread.

When I was younger, I would sacrifice a LOT in terms of time/comfort in order to save a little money.

Now that I am older, I will still sacrifice things but not everything in order to travel.

I don't fly out of other airports. While I could conceivably fly out of Atlanta, the time to drive there, park my car there for a week or more, spend the night ahead of time (because traffic in this part of the country is evil), it just doesn't make sense to take another vacation day and spend all that time/money up front for a flight I can catch from here.

Having said that, my nearest airport is an urban, sorta international airport which requires a connection almost anywhere in the States, much less abroad unless you're flying to London, Atlanta, Detroit or Minneapolis.

I don't need a luxury suite at the destination, but I do look for certain amenities. Safe neighborhood is one. Free breakfast is always a plus. And if I'm staying in certain, very scene locations, I will price out what it costs to have a view of said scenery.

That doesn't mean my way is better/worse than anyone else's travel method. I've done all kinds of travel now. I think it's a question of fitting the people and the trip to the available options.

Without Googling I'm guessing TWA is gone.

Long gone, Mike. American gobbled them up and TWA ceased operations in 2001. I flew TWA all the time, usually out of Peoria and connecting in St. Louis. Haven’t been through STL since then.

Traveling with 5ppl. Price. As Ive said elsewhere, we have 3 kids. We're neck deep in saving for all the things on the horizon. Travel is a wonderful luxury, that we pay for in other ways than money (as my husband says "you pay somewhere", and in our case it makes more sense to pay in time and discomfort). Our airport is routinely 2-3x the price of airports a significant drive away. So we drive. The savings is thousands (which pays for much of the rest of the trip). This year we will drive even farther. Every year, my husband and I swear we will spend the money the next time so as not to suffer ... and then we make plans to do it all over again. Im a morning person so the early flights are fine with me (Plus early flights have the fewest delays). We pay for lodging what many single or couple travelers on this forum pay per night, and so far have had great accommodations. The fact is, we could pay in money for less suffering - we could afford to, but as of now, thrift is too ingrained and the thought of where else the money could be going is too strong an incentive to find the nearly cheapest (if Im spending hundreds more for no lay over, those hundreds could theoretically be going into my retirement account, and Id rather have them there). Once the flight time gets toward 20 hours, I start to look at more expensive tickets ;p

Pertinent to the zero-dark-thirty departures, we live 2.5 hours from PDX. Even for domestic flights we frequently spend the night prior at an airport hotel. Since our return flights fromEurops usually land about 20:00, we spend another night at the airport hotel the drive home reasonable refreshed the next day.

As we're in NYC, we typically fly nonstop on Delta as that's where we have medallion status. DL constantly emails us airfare sales and we look to see which destination has the best deal and then we'll plan our trip. Our last trip a few months ago was an open-jaw sale.

I had considered taking Laker in 1977 but ended up deciding against it. Looking back that could have been a mistake. His commercials were on TV quite often.

When It comes to deciding which flight to take, the price is the primary, most important factor flying out of SFO or OAK, obviously in Basic Economy. The 2nd most factor is whether it's non-stop going over.

Here I am picky as to where to spend the lay-over, Sea-Tac and LAX are most preferable, the top two choices for a lay-over, at least 3 hrs but a 5-6 hr.lay-over is no problem either.

Given the cheapest price for the flight, the destination has to be one of these three...London, Frankfurt or Paris for me to fly into. If it's non-stop going over, then I calculate ca 11 hrs to settle into the flight and sleep. Flying from Sea-Tac in Oct 2017 to London took less time, which threw me a bit.

I remember about 32 years ago, my future wife and I were driving through South Dakota looking to save a buck whenever we could. We found a motel for $20/night. As it turns out out, the other side of the wall from our headboard was a very loud biker bar. We laugh about it now, but the future wife didn't think it was so funny back then. Fast forward 32 years and we can and do spend more for certain comforts. Direct flights from our home airport (YYC) are worth the money, but one connection is acceptable, 2 connections is not worth the savings. We tend not to overspend on hotels. Even though we can afford better, our method of thinking is that we are constantly exploring and spend little time at the hotel, and so luxury is not critical, but I do look for free breakfasts and wifi. Safe, comfortable and centrally located to where we want to visit, is important. We do try to avoid motels near Biker Bars :)

My 26 year old son and his friend just bought dirt cheap fares to Gatwick and from Paris. But they are planning to catch a later flight in the day on Ryan air to somewhere inexpensive to travel in between. What amuses me is they haven’t decided on where.

It is a different way to approach travel. I decide on where I want to go and then figure out the best way to get there-which is a trade off between convenience and price. But I must admit I pay more for airfare than he does.

I don't think anyone can decide your trade offs as well as you. That's one reason I'd never use a travel agent. No matter how hard they try, they won't be able to make the same decisions I'd make - and there are a lot of decisions in travel. It's also why I don't take tours, their idea of good sights to see is different from the sights I'd pick. I can see MY sights and pick MY flight better, and cheaper, than any surrogate could find for me.

An example might be choosing a direct flight (we all prefer a shorter overall duration) vs. a one-stop flight. Will I choose a direct seven hour flight over a one stop ten hour duration? Sure. I tell a travel agent I prefer a direct flight and that's what they will book, even if another option costs half as much and only adds an hour to the duration. In some cases, a one stop through Iceland (which includes an incredibly speedy passport stop) may end up saving both time and money over flying into one of the busy international airports direct.

Will I pay $1,500 for the direct round trip option if the one-stop option is $500? Probably not. Will I fly out of Baltimore (rather than Dulles) to save $1,000? I have before. Will I fly out of Philadelphia or New York to save $1,000? Probably but I have to consider what's involved in getting there (and back).

I took one tour ages ago and won't likely take another until I'm too senile to plan my own trip. On that trip we spent three hours at Gretna Green (IMO a tacky tourist trap) and only had time at nearby Jedburgh Abbey to take a photo from the parking lot. For some on the tour Gretna Green may have been a highlight; not for me. I recently looked at a couple Rick Steves tours of Ireland and would rather skip half the sights on those itineraries, while they skip many of my top must sees.

My second trip in 1973 to Europe was with TWA SFO to Paris Orly r/t non-stop but on the return had to change planes at JFK. I picked that instead of going on a charter flight since I had done that option two years earlier.

"All airlines are not equal." True, which is why after safety, obviously, I put price as the determining factor. I know what to expect in bottom line Economy, regardless how it is named, basically a sardine can seat, and am used to dealing with it.

My first trip abroad was absolutely hilarious--I chose to fly out of Oakland, about 10 minutes from my home, rather than SFO, going to London. Of course I should have gone with a direct flight from SFO, but instead flew to Seattle, then Paris (quelle horreur, CDG connection scarred me for life) THEN London. Going home it was Paris again, then LA then Oakland. I'm sure I saved money but my nerves were fried.

So now I fly direct when this is possible, or just 1 layover and at an airport I like, if possible--Frankfurt or Heathrow so far are tops. Certain airlines are preferable. Depends where I'm going, but I choose flights that allow me to arrive anywhere from 8 am - 4 pm ideally, and ones that get me home from 12-3 pm. I will spend what is needed to keep me in my comfort zone schedule-wise, though only economy, usually the next level up from basic.

I plan to arrive in the morning (and will pay at least a little extra to do it) and head home early afternoon so I don't have to arrive at the airport in the middle of the night.

My next flight is direct to Dublin from Dulles. It arrives at 5:20 am, usually I try to arrive between 7 and 10. This is probably the first time I'm hoping it takes a couple hours to get downtown after the flight.

My city used to have one non-stop flight nightly to Amsterdam. For years I always took that and flew out of Schipol to other destinations. Now that that flight is gone, the cheapest direct flights are a 3 hour drive away. I pay a premium to fly from my local city so I can I Uber to the airport and not pay parking fees for three weeks. Plus traveling with teens, convenience is with a premium.

I look at a combination of price and schedule. For a few extra $$ I'll usually pick schedule over price. I don't mind a short layover, 3 hrs or under, it helps to get out of the tiny seats and walk around.

Round-trip in and out of the same airport is usually the cheaper option, but I usually fly open-jaws because it saves time and the need to circle back to my beginning location. For example, on my next trip I'm flying into LHR and out of Shannon rather than using up a day or more to go back to London. If I can add another day or two to my trip by paying a little more I all over that. I try to get flights that aren't at zero dark thirty, but I have if it's the best schedule/price I can get.

I think that almost everybody is balancing pro and con, price is not the only factor. The best would be to use the example. I usually fly from Seattle to Prague. The options are: via London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, New York, Atlanta. These are the only options with one stop. I eliminate two stops. The length of time between departure from Seattle and arrival to Prague should not be more than 14 to 18 hours. With two or more changes you see 30 hours plus. If the price is similar or almost similar then my choice of transfer is Amsterdam then Frankfurt. It seems to me to say it mildly that Heathrow and De Gaulle are not well organized and slow - passport, security, etc. To fly via New York and Atlanta takes too long. Difference in price would have to be significant. Then I am flexible with days. It can make big difference. Time of flight is also not deciding. Jet lag is unavoidable so it does not matter what time plane leaves or lands. If I find significantly better price to fly from Vancouver B.C., so be it. That means price to get there and back from Seattle and 1 night hotel plus airfare must still be significantly lower. If the price to fly to Vienna is much better (usually not) than to fly to Prague then I do it. From Prague anyway I go to Brno and Vienna is even slightly closer. I don't know anybody who would be deciding just by price.

For us, it is direct flights. It is too iffy anymore to make those layovers. Having said that, I will look at prices but time is money and directs usually works for us.

We live an hour from the airport on a good day (and there are few good days), so I won’t consider a flight before 8a.m. unless I can find a hotel for the night before that is cheaper than the airave difference where I can be guaranteed of sleeping safely. I used to be able to find those in the SeaTac area, but they are few and far between now. I would prefer a one- stop to be in Europe, but I’ll consider ORD, JFK or EWR - basically anything north. I hate Atlanta and Dallas for layovers; I’d rather do CDG or LHR than these. We are spending 2 extra days in Rome this trip be because the cost of the hotel is cheaper than the cost of the flight.

Oh, and as far as the BOAC hijack, that’s today’s British Airways. One of BA’s planes has been painted with the old BOAC logo just a few weeks ago.