HELP!! 4 18 year old boys traveling before college. Paralysis by Analysis

Couple things...

1. When? next week, or next summer? Makes a difference.

2. Look at a map. Greece, England, France - notice any two that go together where one doesn't? (Hint: England & France are logically easily connected; connecting either with Greece involves flying).

3. Besides NOT going to museums (we get it, they're 18, you don't have to obfuscate it), what DOES interest them?

4. DON'T BOOK ANYTHING YET! You would probably be locking yourself into expensive mistakes. Wait. You need to figure out a lot of things before you're even close to booking anything.

I'm guessing that they (nor you) have ever been to Europe before? Start by having everyone watch some of the Rick Steves videos, especially the one on "European Travel Skills" - that one shows important basics (not specific to any location) that will make the trip easier for everyone. Note that THEY should watch these (you can too, but they're the ones that will need to put these skills to use so they should view them).

I may be a bit biased, but I wanted to throw out an alternate country - Spain?

Spain offers much diversity in terms of geography, culture, and cuisine - as well of it's fair share of adventurous activities like cycling through the Pyrenees, surfing in Galicia, or hiking the Camino de Santiago.

From the great green north (Asturias, Basque Country) which looks like something out of Ireland - to the golden heartland (Castilla) a mountainous land dotted with vineyards, castles, and ancient ruins - to the sunny south (Andalucia) with its whitewashed villages and Moorish palaces - and the rugged Mediterranean coast (Catalonia/Valencia) with its wild coastlines and vibrant food scene.

I feel that geographically, Spain has a little bit of Greece, England, and France, among others. Which is why many films are shot there, because of that geographic diversity. In cinema, Spain has stood in for China, Ancient Greece, the Wild West, Ancient Italy, Medieval France, the Holy Land, WW1 Egypt, even outer space and Westeros from Game of Thrones!

Also, for the most part, all of these places are well connected with one of the most efficient and fastest rail systems in Europe, the AVE.

Of course to narrow it down we will need some more specific information about what they like and potential trip timing.

Greece is far enough away from many other countries on a 3-week trip (not Macedonia or Bulgaria, but certainly France and the U.K.) that we waited a long time to visit Greece, going elsewhere in Europe for 20 years, and just went this April. We were traveling by ferry and car, and only had 2 weeks, so you might be able to do more with that extra week. But we needed all 2 weeks just to visit Athens and the Peloponnesian Peninsula, which would've limited our time anywhere else. And if there's any desire to see any of Greece's Islands, you'll need to use a boat at some point, so it wouldn't be strictly by train.

Greece was wonderful, and while we went to one art museum in Athens, most of our visits were to outdoor sites of ancient Greek sights and ruins, some of which also had adjacent museums which you could see or ignore, but none of which (in April) had lines at the entrance. Some place, like the Acropolis, did have a lot of people there, but lines weren't ever an issue.

If they're "adventurous" how about touring U.S National Parks -- or a cross-country road trip (or train or bus) ? FYI, there are hostels in the U.S. too. Have they defined what they want to do/see on this "trip of a lifetime" ? Figured out their budget? Have they traveled by themselves ?
Recommended reading -- Rick Steves' Europe Through the Back Door, which gives tips on how to travel, how to set itinerary. (Available at the public library -- an older edition is fine.)

England would be a great choice. Best to get RS guidebk as a guide. He has suggested itins.
They would be relate to all as Britain is english speaking and familiarity would be comforting.

I suggest that the adults oversee the big-picture how-tos (getting/renewing a passport, accessing funds, etc), and let the boys do the actual work of planning the trip. These are college-bound adults doing what thousands of college-bound adults do every summer. There is LOADS of information available to assist them. Certainly, they can find useful information in RS books and videos, but they will do better with Let's Go or another product that caters to young people. Also, the countless YouTube channels of the countless other young people who have already invented this particular wheel.

robin,

I agree with David in the first reply, and have many of the same questions. It would be really helpful if you could provide more detailed information.

As this is probably a first trip to Europe for all of them, I'd suggest reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to the trip. That provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe.

What prompted this sudden desire to see Europe, and why have they chosen Greece, England and France?

First of all, yay on everyone graduating high school and heading to college. Hopefully they will be headed to the college of their choice.

Second of all, as others have said above - WHEN will this trip take place? This is a key point.

Third - and I say this as a mom and as someone who has worked with young adults in this area - if they have the funds themselves to do this trip, let them plan it. (Somebody else above said the same thing.)

You can point them to this forum. Point them to good books on travel. If they need help, ask questions to help think about their answers. WHY do you want to visit this country? That place? Are they into movies? TV shows filmed abroad? There are tons of websites which list where various things were filmed. You can go there, too, in many cases, but you may have to do some research.

First thing everyone will need is a valid passport. Then they will need funds. Are they traveling first class or looking to save as much as possible?

I realize this doesn't answer any of your questions, but again we need to look at whose questions these are. Yours as the parent wanting to take care of the kids? Or the kids' questions?

Having said that, if you are going along on this trip, that's a horse of a different color. If you are the one paying for the trip, then throw out those questions.

I agree with G3rryCee that the boys, not parents should be doing the planning. We have been through this with two sons at separate times. One son went in a group of three and the other in a group of four.
They had planning sessions, assigned research of itineraries, gear to bring, etc.
They found festivals, hostel reviews, hiking areas, etc. Each went for 3 months and planned better trips (suited to their interests) than any of the parents could have planned.

Many of us hit the road in the dark ages with Let's Go and Europe on $5 a day. With all the resources online now, I bet they could plan a great trip for themselves.

If they aren't up to the task of planning they could wait until they are older or take a tour geared for young people, like Contiki. (Contiki is an example. I am not endorsing them, alcohol consumption seems to prevalent in their tours).

As other posters have mentioned, they should start with a good guidebook.

Robin, I'll agree with the others above that the young people should be doing the research and planning for this trip themselves. As there appears to be a big (very big) question mark around why they're interested in the 3 countries mentioned and what they intend to do see/when they get there, it's best that they be the ones to figure that out. It's part of learning the when/where/how/what/why of travel! Thinking about booking accommodations and transport at this point is cart before horse.

Budget is the other piece: do all 4 know they have enough to cover 2 or 3 weeks abroad without scrimping on desired activities? Lots of moving around can eat up lots of time and $, and high-season prices can drain a budget faster than low-season. Some countries are going to be more expensive than others as well.

Language/transport can be more, well, interesting the further off the tourist grid one ventures so comfort zone can figure into the equation too.

Anyway, lots of things to consider... The good news is that, between guidebooks and the internet, research has never been easier. Introduce them to online travel forums - I might recommend Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree forum for 18 year-old 'adventure' travelers - BUT forums work best if a poster can demonstrate that they've done a certain amount of homework. Very broad "Where should we go, what should we do and and how should we do it?" questions don't really fly. Same with "Please provide a 3-week itinerary for Europe." They should have an idea of where they want to go, when they want to go, the sorts of things they want to do/see, and a rough budget.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/welcome

An 'adventure of a lifetime'? At 18, I sincerely hope this is only the first of many, many adventures to come! :O)

I must be showing my age but I would consider an alternate method, why not just have them sign up for the 21 day Rick Steves tour? That way you know that they are going to get where they need to go, will learn basic travel skills of traveling light, see a huge slice of the best of Europe and will learn a lot about each nation and it's culture. If your afraid that the tour is to restrictive then consider a "My Way tour" so the boys can schedule their own activities everyday. I've traveled by myself in Europe for several years and for the last 5 years I've been taking the RS tours yearly because they are the best "bang for the buck" for travel, in my opinion. If they want to do the entire trip on their own then the boys need to invest time in learning travel skills and how to budget for the trip, which would be an awesome learning experience but can also be painful, but nothing ventured, nothing gained! I hope they have a trip that opens them to a lifetime of backdoor experiences!!

If hs grads can't research and decide this stuff for themselves, are they really prepared for college? 2-3 weeks, if it's London, Paris, and Athens (maybe with a side trip or two) should not be terribly challenging. Flight to London. Eurostar train to Paris. Flight to Athens (or an island?) Fly home. If they want an "adventure", why pre-book every single day, or every single destination, or every single step?? If they want some peace of mind, they can book 2 nights in London, Paris, and Athens. If they have, let's say, 6 days in each country, they can decide on the fly, if they wish, whether to stay on in London/Paris/Athens for the other 4 days, or to catch a train to somewhere else (Europeans don't use Eurailpasses - just tickets - and they can do the same.) They will have already researched those destinations and lodging options and will have a list of contacts (hostels, etc.) for booking a day or two in advance if they prefer not to just show up in town.

At about that age I took a 2-month European adventure without a single room booked. I survived - thrived, actually.

Assuming the trip is next summer, and that four boys want to go. But will all four have the finances to do so? To that end, all four should book and pay for airfare separately. Do not be the parent who books it all on her own credit card. Plane tickets can be bought individually. Just figure out the exact flights first, then each book on his own.

Germany has cheap lodging, has a high percentage of residents who speak 'tourist English' and they'll find a lot of people their age from around the world in the hostels there. Mass transit including a great train system is affordable and reasonably easy to navigate. And Berlin these days is a great and fun place for the 18-24 year old set. That time frame lets you work your way from there to Munich with a bunch of side trips along the way.

Get them a copy of ”Let’s Go Europe” and have them do the planning. Let’s Go is written by college students for students.

If they really want to add Greece to the mix, then the most likely economical options would be flights out of London. On a three week trip, if they want to see 3 countries, they could fly into Paris, train to London, fly to Greece, and then fly home from Athens.

I went to Greece after college. It was a lot of fun, but it was mostly about island hopping, laying on the beach, and going out to clubs every night to drink and dance. Greece is really out of the way if they also want to go to England and France. Additionally, it takes some time to get from Athens to the islands.

At 18 I would have jumped at the chance of spending 2 to 3 weeks in Ibiza, fortunately for my body and sanity I could only ever afford a week.

At 42 I'm a completely different traveller to my 18 year old self and what I would chose to do now would likely be anathema to the 18 year old me let alone what I'll be like in another 20 years.

You don't say what time of year they're going but if it's summer and they want to go to Greece then I suspect there will be plenty of partying, the lure of renting ATV's or scooters to explore the islands, lazing on the beaches, chatting up girls (or boys! Not wishing to be presumptuous), more partying and anything with an element of danger or excitement.

Not so much in France or England, it's a bit less hedonistic in the summer than Greece but both have their lures.

Their money will go further in Greece. Their free museum options will be considerably more plentiful in England although this would appear not to be much of an area of interest for them. Public transport is more expensive in England but, along with France, more reliable and extensive than Greece.

I would disagree with the advice of a previous poster about going on a RS tour. I have formed the impression that most of the participants of these tours are in the 50+ age bracket and as such would not be an attraction for pretty much any 18 year old.

I would love to hear what it is that they want to see and do, you'll end up with more useful and specific advice.

Thanks for so much input. Let me clarify a couple of things...

The paralysis by analysis is them quite frankly. They have never traveled like this, so yes they should figure stuff out. However, I want them to GO! If I have to get them started, I will do that.

I have traveled/backbacked with another girlfriend for an entire year. Also, this was sadly 30 years ago, so times have changed.

They will be traveling the end of June time frame.

I want them to have an adventure, see other things than the typical touristy stuff all the time and the urge to go back someday. We live in a smaller area outside of Sacramento. We live in a fairly affluent area, so they need to see and experience culture, people and really understand there is a big world out there and understand the value of "things" and understand how fortunate they are.

They have a budget, but they are not staying or traveling 1st class by any means. Hostels are my suggestion as that is where I stayed and also met like minded people. The things I remember are the culture, people and places we stumbled upon. I had a year however, they have three weeks!

I hope this helps to give a clearer picture. Thanks for so many responses. Truly is appreciated.

My last 2 cents: You are right, travel in Europe will be very different for them than when you went.
One of the moms of my son's travel companion was very eager for the boys also. She made huge lists, signed them up for cooking class, etc. This was completely different from what the guys wanted and caused some resentment from other parents.
From day one my son told me they could figure it out. That's when I knew he was ready to go and do this on his own.

If you want to get them started buy them the book. I would gently nudge you to step back from the process. If they want to go, they can figure it out.
If they wait until they have experienced some college life, they will be much more independent.

robin,

Thanks for the additional information. A few thoughts.....

As you live in the Sacramento area, you or "the boys" might consider attending the next meeting of the RS group in that area - https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/travel-meetings/sacramento-travel-meeting-saturday-10-20-10-00-a-m . The well travelled group there will be able to help you get this all sorted (although you may have to attend more than one meeting).

I agree that Hostels would be a good option for people that age. There are some good independent Hostels, but they might consider getting inexpensive memberships in HI Hostels, as they have properties all over the world. Although I'm an old guy, I stay in Hostels at times and have always found them to be clean and well organized. For Hostel stays, they'll need to pack soap, towel, flip-flops for the shower and a small but robust padlock for the lockers (DON'T use the cheap TSA locks!).

To reiterate, I would highly recommend that they all read Europe Through The Back Door as they'll need to get up-to-speed on a lot of subjects - money, safety, travel with technology, health insurance, Itinerary planning, packing, etc., etc. Use the country or city-specific guidebooks (RS recommended) to plan sightseeing, getting around, etc. While kids have been backpacking Europe without too many problems since dinosaurs roamed the earth, a well planned trip will minimize problems. There are some potentially expensive caveats to be aware of when using public transportation (especially in Italy, if they decide to add that to the list).

You might suggest that they have a look at this forum. Are they going to actually use backpacks or some wheelie bags? Before buying a backpack it's important to do some "homework" on that subject too, as there are some important things to consider.

Have they got Passports yet?

As it's been 30 years since you've backpacked, you might enjoy a trip too!

Hello robin. I recommend that young persons, recently graduated from high school, travel to Europe before they will be students at a college or university. A major reason for that is : if the young person will be enrolled in a course in World History in his first year at the college or university, that person's probability of getting a grade of B or A in that course will be improved if the person traveled in countries in Europe and Britain, before attending classes in the course in World History. One reason for that is, a person who was at countries in Europe will likely be interested in knowing some of the history of that country. That is, if a person will be at some places in Europe, he is likely to want to know why some things and situations are as they are. (Why do some towns in northern ITALY have German names ? Why does a town in Switzerland have an Italian name ? ). In a course on the history of Europe, the professor will talk about the "Austro - Hungarian Empire". The student will know what the professor is talking about, if the student had walked through the Schonbrunn palace and parts of Hoffburg Palace in Vienna in Austria. Those palaces were the home of emperors of Austria who were also emperors of the Austro - Hungarian Empire. In a course in World History, a student is expected to know the names of many persons in history. I recommend that students learn some of those names, before they enroll in a course in World History. If a person walks through the Palace of Versailles in France, I guess he will remember the name of the Louis King of France who was the first royal resident of Versaille. And, if a person walks through the Carnavalet museum (of the history of Paris) in Paris in France, I guess he could remember the name of the Last Louis King of France before the French revolution. I think a person will be more likely to be successful in learning history, as a college student, if he desires to learn something about history.
But at some universities, in the World History course that most students are required to enroll in, it does not include much on the history of Europe. At a state university located near my home, that World history course is on mostly the history of countries in Africa.
If persons travel to Greece, I think the benefit of that is relaxing in the Mediterranean environment on an island of Greece in the Aegean Sea. I do not think that kind of experience would help a person be prepared for college.
An other major reason for young persons to do international travel before they will be college students, is that travelling and experiencing other cultures would be good for a person before he will begin being a college student. When a person is a college student, he should be reading books, and writing while sitting at a desk, five hours each day. I recommend that a person travel and have mind expanding experiences before he does that.
An other reason for a person to travel to Europe before being a student at a college or university, is for him to have a feeling of accomplishing something, before he will begin being a student at a university or college. Beginning the freshman year at a college or university is daunting !
In a three week trip in Europe, I recommend traveling to London, and Paris, and Vienna. I would fly to London, and fly from London to Vienna, and fly from Vienna to France. If a person travels from Vienna to Sacramento in one day, I guess that person would be in an airplane departing from the Vienna airport at 7:00 in the morning. That person would have a very long day of traveling.

Larry from Carmel...Really?

Thank you Diane. I came to this forum for real advice on travel, not to get my son and friends into mischief and trouble.

Sorry, just a bit of humor, now gone.

Robin, your heart is definitely in the right place! You also already wisely know that with just 2-3 weeks - and trying to do multiple countries - the fellas can't accomplish the sort of deeper dive into culture/lifestyle that you were able to over a year.

Your interests may also have been a bit different? As you've already mentioned, they aren't really into art and museums (no, I personally wouldn't send them to Versailles, and NOT in July!) and so their brand of 'adventure' may lean towards stuff like kayaking in Croatia or hiking the Dolomites in Italy...not that they've expressed interest in either country but you get the idea?

So while wanting to kickstart the process, that's where they're going to have to make the location decisions: which places are going to offer the things they most want to do? To simplify matters, they might want to consider spending all of their relatively short time in just a single country and split that between a few city and less-urban areas? Learn how the trains work in just one country; explore both cultural and more active pursuits, etc. while reducing travel time between locations; get a handle on some very basic language in just one country; etc. Less can be more if not having to work a lot of logistics into a short-ish span of time, if that makes sense. Additionally, there can be a lot of 'different' within a single country's border: London doesn't define England, The Amalfi Coast doesn't define Italy, Santorini doesn't define Greece... But you already know that. :O)

Hostels: for sure! They'll come into contact with other young (and sometimes not-so-young) people from all over the world. The clock is ticking a bit for booking some the best of them for high season in popular cities/areas so they (not YOU!) really do need to get the giddiyup on pretty soon. Rick's book? Sure, but send them to the library/bookshop for a range: Lonely Planet, Let's Go, Moon, Rough Guides... I'm a fan of Eyewitness as they have lots of pix for the visual animal (me) but some of those others may appeal more to your fellas.

In the mid-2000's when my daughter was 18, she went to Europe with her girlfriend. I arranged the flights into Paris and out of Rome, once they decided on the arrival and departure airports. It was their job to decide on the route and what to see, and learn how to do it. (Although, I do remember sitting on the couch listening as they planned...because that was fun to hear). While it might be difficult as a parent to let go, it is necessary. I have to say it was one of the hardest things I'd done as a parent at the time, but also one of the most rewarding...when they showed up in Boston afterwards! LOL They both made it to Rome and their flight out. Let go. If they don't plan it, then they are not ready to do it.

I did the europe backpacking trip in 1985. My friend and I went to many countries.. but we had 3 months.. however our favorites were in fact Greece and Switzerland . Switzerland is very expensive.. so shelve that one for a short trip.

My daughter did 11 weeks in europe two summers ago.. at age 19, her and her friend also visited many places.. and their favorite was also Greece.

My hubby and I love many countries.. especially france, spain and yes... greece.. lol

I suggest for three weeks they fly into London , spend 3-4 days there to " get their feet " .. recover from jet lag etc. no langauge issues etc and some fun museums ( and the most of the museums are free.. great budget stretcher)

Then from london they can board the Eurostar for Paris.. 2.5 hours.. city center to city center .. no commuting to airports .. easy and can be very cheap if booked months in advance..

Spend 3-4 days in Paris.. look at MIJE or St Christopher hostels..

Then from Paris they can easily fly to Mykonos !! Cheap on Easyjet 65 euros one way at this point of time .. for a june visit . Or fly to Corfu( some dates in late june still going for 55 euros ) . Mykonos is pricy .. but has some good hostels... one on Paranga beach looks great ( we stayed at hotel across street and wandered through it last year) ... I havent been to Corfu but daughter has and they loved loved loved it... they went on an ATV tour arranged through hostel and it was cheap, they also went on a sail boat tour.. and loved the hostel they stayed at ( sorry forgot name.. think it was the Pink Palace.. which is quite popular with youngsters)

Spend 10 days in Greece.. then fly back to Rome for a flight home.. when you book their international flights they should not be looking at two one ways.. but at a " multi destination " or "open jaw" flight.. less time and money than back peddling to London.

Dear OP -

I think you must be a great parent to have such a wonderful son with such great friends.

Having said that, if Europe is their goal...you need to let them plan this. Give them direction, sure. Point out books. Mention passports. Suggest travel shows. That kind of thing.

But at the end of the day, I'm sure you want them all to be strong, independent young men. And I have learned more about travel from making mistakes than from having someone else do things for me. I'm still learning.

Now if you're subsidizing part of this adventure, you have every right to say 'show me your plans so far' on this trip. But most kids that age learn the best from doing it themselves.

Having said that, if they have specific questions or if YOU have specific questions, I'm sure somebody here can answer it. But it's difficult to help somebody when they're not here to plan things for themselves.

If they have 2-3 weeks, they should have no problems planning a trip to England, France and Greece if all are agreed on that particular itinerary. Start researching by looking at "Let's Go Europe." Staying in hostels and going by train is the way to go. If they get a Eurail Pass, they can get the Youth 2nd class one. In their case, I would not use that option since the duration is not long enough....not for 2-3 weeks without going to Germany.

Where do they plan on traveling the most? With 4 of them, it's essential they agree or agree to split up and meet up later. They don't have to stick together all the time...I wouldn't.

Is there a common interest among them? I planned my first trip almost exclusively myself, picked my own itinerary to cover 12 weeks, 7 of which was reserved for traveling in Germany from north to south, went solo my first time over in the summer of 1971 as a college backpacker. The difference is that I was a bit older, ie 21. At 18 I could not have done it, neither mentally nor linguistically equipped.

Robin, let your sons loose and encourage them to suss through travel books, websites and the like to pick where they are interested in traveling. They are 18 afterall. Are you funding this 'adventure of a lifetime'? If so, remind them the final decision is YOURS. A real lesson for teens is that those who pay the bills have the awesome benefit of making the decisions. It is great incentive. Now if they are paying for this trip on their own, BRAVO!!!!!

You can certainly offer guidance. For example, summer is going to be hot in a southern European locale with very little access to air conditioning; maybe give them a heads up on that.