Ground Rules when travelling with others.

I get the sense that they don't think I'm serious when I talk of the daily pace I set, and how seriously I take my research and planning.

Either don't go with them or take the lead in the organization of the trip and tell them how it is going to go based on what you normally do. I have been the leader on most of my trips with family and friends and they seem to be happy during and after that. I always tell them to research for themselves and let me know what they might want to see also. Let them know the reality of the physical demands of the trip. It is only when I've travel with people my age or older ( I am 51) or youth not use to normal physical activity that there was a problem. My last trip with family my nephew who is 16 who I told that we had to catch a bus at 6:30 am, ended up oversleeping but I planned on that by getting up earlier than everyone. Another trip with my uncle who is in his 70's he forgot to tell his bank that he was going abroad. He also ended up in the hospital after the trip from dehydration. I did not remember him ever drinking water during the trip just liquor. Airplanes will dehydrate you.

Also personally I would only go with one other couple, a trip with 4 people max.

Hey Allan -
If you want them to remain your friends, don't vacation with them.

I agree with Blue! Especially for a European vacation.

There will be lots of advice about having frank conversations beforehand and setting expectations. Problem is many people aren't self aware. They think they'll do their own thing from time to time, or that they'll keep up, but they may not.

A trip to Ireland very nearly wrecked a friendship for me. And I don't entirely blame them. I found I couldn't smoothe out my annoying quirks.

In the end, for most of us a trip to Europe is a huge amount of money to spend and nobody should do it any way but the way that suits them.

We met a couple on our last RS tour - Village Italy in April-May 2019, and hit it off so well that we decided to go on the RS Best of England tour with them. The England tour was supposed to be happening right now, but we have all agreed to make this trip when it feels safe and comfortable to do so. With the tour, the planning is done by someone else, and you also get a chance to interact with other tour members. A do-it-yourself tour involves a lot of togetherness - maybe too much?

I travelled with a friend, who just went with the flow. I did all the planning, her few must sees were on my list. Every morning, I explained the plan for the day. If it wasn't a travel day, she could join or do something else. She didn't whine, we had a lot in common, she was thankful for the planning, and thankfully, most of the trip allowed separate sleeping quarters as she snored. That trip worked. Normally after 8 days, I am sick of people, so up front explain I need time alone and they should plan to do some days on their own. However, at this stage, I flat out say I would be a bad travel companion. That I don't like to compromise, shop, take leisurely meals or preplan every hour of the day. And that I have been known to spent 7 hours in one museum.
However, if vacations are sacred time for you, just say so. Or, tell them if they want to plan their own trip and if you happen to be in the same place, you'll meet them for dinner one night.

We have two sets of friends that we travel with successfully. Our rules:
-Anybody may excuse themselves from a group meal, no questions. if there are conflicting plans for meals, everybody goes their own way. One of the couples will make a suggestion and if it sounds good we go.
-Plans are made and if the couple doesn't want to participate, no questions asked.

It has been very successful and kept us all friends. Most times we agree on destinations for meals but at 20% of the time, everybody goes their own way. If you set the expectations before the trip and stay firm, it will eliminate the posers.

We've also told one set of friends that there is no way we could travel with them and gave reasons. They laughed and understood.

We are planning a post-pandemic trip to the Amalfi Coast with another couple. We have agreed that I will plan our itinerary, and they can join us or separate from us as they please. None of us want to be joined together like 4 Musketeers for the duration of the trip.

We have a couple we are friends with since high school. When they lived in Germany (military) we spent a month with them and did day trips and a weekend in Vienna. That was 1981, we were young and carefree. Fast forward to 2017 we decided on our families doing a cruise to Alaska, 24 in total, for our 60 birthdays. We hardly saw them. I was a little disappointed since it was our celebrations and we get along so well. Fast forward to August 2019. My husband and I were planning for a return trip to Quebec City for about 5 days by car.
They asked to come. We figured this would be a great “test” for European travel which we had talked about. They asked to include Montreal. Sure we said, we like Montreal. Then they decided to fly, it was too long a drive, they live near us and we would have driven together. Ok we said. Meet you there. They then decided to come 2 days after us. Ok again. While we were alone in Montreal we did a few museums/churches we had missed last time, good thing because they did not want to go into one church or museum. Just wanted to walk around and eat. We then all drove to Quebec. Same thing. We had been there before so we had been in the museums. The next day we drove around Îl d’Orleans which worked out great. No interest in the history of the city. It was torture for us. Good thing i had planned a few walking tours my hubby and i took alone. I can’t ever imagine going anywhere with them again anytime soon. Maybe they feel the same way, but I don’t think so cause they mentioned going to Croatia with us after they retire in 2 years. On the other hand, my cousin and her husband are fabulous to travel with. Easy going like us, like to plan but not over plan, love Churches, museums and history, like walking tours, and are flexible. We travel together a lot. We already have a 3 week trip to Croatia pushed back to September 2021 from this year. For me, i don’t want to travel with people who have absolutely no interest in sights or the history of a city or anything that interests us. What’s the point. We have compromised with other travel companions, which I feel broadens our horizons and interests - A Mozart Piano concert in Warsaw for example. I also don’t want to travel with people I will only see for a short period of time or only at a meal. I would rather it just be me and my husband.

I wouldn’t go if I valued both my friendship and my vacation!

But if you do - be sure to discuss that you won’t be together all waking hours. Everyone can benefit from going off and doing their own thing. You like art museums and they don’t? No need to debate, you go and they go to a food market or something of their interest.

Also clarity on your day. A simple “I like to be active” or whatever isn’t helpful because that could mean anything. Saying I get up at 5AM to make it to a sunrise viewpoint before getting in the pre-opening line at a museum then walk 12 miles around the city by dinner, and stay out for the evening lighting and late night photos...

Also food! If these are good friends you probably know if your restaurant tastes are compatible. But trying to travel with picky eaters if you are adventurous or vice versa is tough.

And hotels, if they are used to American business class hotels and you stay in bnbs, or vice versa.

Years ago we went with a couple who were perfectly happy to let us do the planning and they were happy with our pace. We went with another set of friends a couple years ago and we let them do the planning. In both cases there was an open line of communication so there were no hidden surprises. Last December we went to London for a week and after we already had all our reservations we told a couple couples our plans and said they were more than welcome to join us. After both couples saying yes, we got their input on things they’d like to do since neither had spent time there. We did some things together but we had our own alone time since there were some places we didn’t want to see again. Because we stayed at the same hotel the entire trip, it worked well. If going on a longer trip where locations change every few days, there would need to be frank discussions about travel styles, luggage size and quantity if renting a car, lodging types, alone time, types of places to stop and see, and shared expenses (e.g., rental car, fuel). If everybody has the same expectations, it should work well, but if your and their expectations are different (e.g., you want to see churches and castles and they want museums), then if would be best to take separate trips.

I've traveled several times with family members to Europe for RS tours. Last time I planned the time in London before the tour. I asked - anything you want to see? Nope, we're good with whatever you choose. At the end of the London time...when we were headed to Canterbury, one of them said...gosh I wish we'd had time to shop. I could not believe it! What? Why didn't someone say - I want to shop this afternoon. The other 2 women KNOW I'm not a shopper and it truly never occurred to me anyone would want to spend time shopping when there is SO much to see in London, lol!! Lesson learned on my part and probably theirs too, lol!

Some of this group did Paris last year in July. It was easy to say no thanks to that because I knew I just could not tolerate the heat. They had fun, shopped and I'm sure enjoyed the time without me having an itinerary of churches and museums, lol!

I've got one excellent friend with whom I travel. We meet up in Paris and have things pretty well organized as to what we want to see. If one wants a rest day, that's fine. We enjoy the same things (churches, museums, wine and Amorino) and have sort of the same daily rhythm although I flake out earlier than she does!

I'd echo the suggestion of a tour if the itinerary would fit in with something you want to see too. OR send them on a tour and meet up later!

Bottom line...open communication is needed BUT sometimes those new to it don't really know how they will travel in Europe!

Allan I know in the past you've mentioned that you sometimes enjoy a cruise -- cruise holidays are the easiest for sharing with friends, I've found. Everyone sort of knows what they are getting into.

Hey Allan - If you want them to remain your friends, don't vacation
with them.

That's my gut reaction, but my wife is so extroverted that she thinks the more the merrier even if it means we don't get our way. Some might accuse me of being bluntly honest with limited tact when I give my opinion to friends and I can't disagree, but if we wind up inviting friends my thought is to begin planning well before we book hotels and flights so we both have exit options if we realize this isn't going to work. I've been very vocal so far in letting people know I'm not the easiest to travel with, but they don't always believe it because my wife has me trained very well to do what I'm told.

Depends on the people. I travel all the time with the same friend. You have to involve them in the planning or you may be hanged. Find out what they like, what kind of pace is OK with them or not. My friend LOVEs to see historical sites, is usually good with going back to the hotel at a reasonable time in the evening if I wear them out thoroughly during the day. I try to set the pace to be busy one day and not as crazy the next since I'm not fond of having too many blisters. I know they prefer to have their own bed and/or don't want hotel breakfast. We usually pick out food places together in advance.

HOWEVER! i have several friends I know I can never travel with. They are cheap skates (think anything over $100 is too expensive for a hotel) and//or are PARTY animals. They always ask when I go to London why we didn't go clubbing to pick up strangers. Um no thanks! I didn't go halfway around the world to be a party animal/ get drunk/ or acquire an std. Everyone has a different travel goal, sometimes those aren't compatable.

Ask questions. See if you really want to travel with them. Get them involved in the planning process so they don't get mad later. If you involve them the whole time they can't really say anything about it in retrospect.

Allan, another great topic.

Most people seem to be anticipating or reporting bad experiences. Just don't go with unreasonable people with whom you can't communicate with frankly. We've had mostly great experiences, even when some of our expectations have been tempered.

I think you have to avoid accepting responsibility for everyone else's having a good trip. I don't necessarily want to be the planner and decision maker, but accept that I might have to, if I am the most experienced or skilled traveler. And I bring that up in advance. Most people don't want to know what you know, or develop new skills. But they forfeit their right to complain.

The things that I think are mostly worth discussing in advance are: morning routines, logistics, packing light (if thats important to you), priorities (e.g., shopping time versus sights), and how much independence they can manage. Food (as in fine dining) is never that important to me, but for some people its a major priority - discuss expectations in advance. The sights-to-visit are easy to discuss, and decide in advance, but include how we're going to get there, and how much time its going to take.

This is one of the advantages of going on a tour with friends - the planning and responsibility are off your back.

I think communication and shared pace-of-travel mode are important. It's also great when each party has a "special travel skill".

I travel best with my adult daughter. My skill are the details- I research extensively and plan the itinerary [I'm retired, so have the time] and she [very busy professional] regularly reviews the travel itinerary drafts and looks for issues I've neglected to research.

Then we're off-I've done the details, and she basically implements the itinerary.

My daughter's skills- she has an incredible sense of direction and travel calm. I have NO sense of direction; I can't even find my hotel room when I get off the elevator. I couldn't find our hotel in Rothenburg, and we were within one block of the main plaza. My daughter seems to just "know" where the right bus/tram/train track is, and stays calm when she's confused. She got us out of France December 2019 during the French transportation strikes, which caught both of us by surprise.

We also both have the same sleep and eating schedules: the last ones down for breakfast in the morning, but also the last ones back to the hotel in the evenings.

My husband, on the other hand, is up at 5:30am, frustrated that he can't get coffee, first in the breakfast room at 7:00am, obviously wants to be out of the hotel exploring asap, then ready for a nap just as I'm getting energized for the day. He has a lot of anxiety on travel days, those which require meeting trains and connections. And- he wants to be in bed by 8-9:00pm.

Somehow, we make it work, and continue to travel together, but I know which trips are best for the hubby, [less complicated itineraries, fewer transitions, outdoor activities, repeat countries] and which are best taken with the daughter [new countries, tighter agendas, museums/churches, some unknowns.]

Hopefully I've demonstrated examples above of individuals' travel differences, which need to be discussed for successful group travel.

Most important of all- I wish us all safe and healthy travel opportunities in the near future!

the biggest issues with travelling with friends are :
money
the issues that come up when you say no i dont want to do that and ill see you later
fitness levels
interests
food

you must have some frank and honest conversations before i would go on a trip with friends

Well...…. there is one friend whom I always meet in Europe.
She is a widow, and my husband doesn't care to travel.
We've done many trips now, and get on well.
I do all the planning, but always send her the details before I book anything like accommodation or how many days in each place.
We always have our own rooms, and we rent apartments.
I get there a couple of days ahead of her to get over any jet lag; and like to have a couple of days on my own at the end to de stress and relax.
Some times, other friends join up with us for a few days here and there, but I draw the line at organising their trips too!
Personally, I like to travel alone, and meet up with friends for only a few days in the middle of a trip.

Allan: Based on what you've said about your strong travel preferences, it sounds like you'd regret it if you travel with the friends--it would just be frustrating for you. There are other things you can do with friends.

Allan, this has been a topic with my husband and I too! He also would rather not try to travel with friends. We do travel very successfully with my brother's family, however and I think it could translate. We usually only meet for part of any trip. We have a very specific plan for that part of the trip ( either something we all like, such as skiing) or the down part of a trip where we rent a house together.

I also like the idea of trying a Rick Steves tour with friends, that way your itinerary is set. Perhaps make it clear that during your free time you will do your own thing.

"vacation time is sacred to me and it's a time that I want to be selfish and do what I want to do (and what my wife wants to do). I get the sense that they don't think I'm serious when I talk of the daily pace I set, and how seriously I take my research and planning."

Allan, it sound like you & I approach our European trips & travel planning in a very similar manner. And my pace....our kids - teenagers at the time, complained about the pace I set when we were in Disney World! Okay, I wanted to see it all, plus spend time at Cocoa Beach, space museum, etc. but "Disney Bootcamp?" LOL!

I seriously could not think of anyone I would want to travel an entire European vacation with us. Either I would be forced into Tour Guide mode, or Mom mode, or thinking of those sacred wasted minutes waiting for others to do their shopping or finishing breakfast or whatever, I would be regretting that choice. I think the best option by far would be to go on a RS or similar tour together. Then you don't become the Tour Guide, or responsible for something they didn't like, in charge of hotel reservations, etc. and you're not the one keeping them on-time to get to the next location.

If you have a RS tour you're considering, you could share that with them. Sometimes the cost & commitment to actually sign up & buy plane tickets will change their minds.

Otherwise, here's some ground rule topics:
Length of trip - together the whole time? separate flights?

Money - I recommend Splitwise app; definitely eat several meals just as a couple instead of all together

Hotels/lodging - who picks it? who gets to complain about it - LOL? Highly recommend each couple has their own reservation!

Schedule - meet after breakfast? Mornings to yourselves and afternoons together or dinner? How many days per location? How about a couple of planned days apart in the middle of the trip?

Activities - this one would make or break the trip for me. Talk about options several months ahead and commit to some type of plan. Then have each couple or person get reservations ahead, if needed, for what interests them - not just following someone else in the group. It would drive me crazy if I had "a shadow" for the whole trip who really didn't know what they wanted to do each day! For instance, I love cooking classes and have taken a croissant pastry class in Paris while my husband went to the top of the Eiffel Tower (I hate heights). We were both happy! He's even happier because I make them often at home now! This doesn't mean there isn't carefree flexibility in your days - it just means when you arrive at the next location, everyone isn't looking at you for "what to do".

Hi Allan,

I've not traveled with friends, but you may be interested in reading this post
from our late friend Zoe: How to Avoid Traveling with Friends Mistakes

I have a girlfriend (who lives in London; I live in the US) with whom I've traveled for years We've taken numerous week and 2-week trips together, including trips in England and in the US. We each also continue to travel separately - with friends, boyfriends and (me) with my parents.

She's begun to meet me during my independent trips. I travel solo for the majority of my itinerary and she meets me in one my destinations for 3 or 4 days. I arrive early or stay a couple of days longer. If there is anything that we don't prioritize while she's there, I can prioritize it for myself. It makes it easy to compromise during our time together.

She loves fine dining as part of her travels, while I'm not usually willing to pay for or devote the time to that. So we will eat "normally" most days, and she'll research a nice restaurant to enjoy for one of our evenings. I consider the evening a celebration of our years of friendship, well worth the price!

I have had mixed success traveling with friends (and daughters) - both good and not as good, but none terrible. It has made me realize how I like to travel and what I like to do and to develop a clear way to communicate that. I am the planner and feel absolutely no guilt over saying what I will or will not do/change/give up. But basically when they ask about going, I show them what the plan is. I ask what they want to do or see and if it doesn’t match well enough to be practical, I will suggest they take their own trip - because I am perfectly happy to go on my own. Recently I had to tell my next travel companion that I would be happy to add days to see something out of the way she wants to see, but that I wasn’t willing to cut anything currently planned. And let her decide whether to extend a few days in order to visit there. That being said, I travel best with one friend and one of my daughters (far better than my husband and I ever did, with two very different travel styles). Neither of them ever complain and everything is interesting - it doesn’t matter where or what. Traveling with either of them just makes it better.

I think knowing your friends and their potential style, plus good communication, is key. I explain my absolutes to a new traveler (no complaining and no being rude), that food is fun but not anywhere near the top of my list, I need morning coffee, and I love old stone buildings of any kind. Also I am selfish enough to know that it really is my trip so I want to do what I want to do - and that if left to themselves, they would never take a trip of the kind I plan. But I love travel so much and I want friends to be able to experience that, as well. However I know the ones where it just would not work. If they not flexible here, they won’t be flexible in Europe.

That being said, sometimes there is a real intangible benefit in having shared the travel experiences. You now have “a common language”. I took a trip with 3 friends last November that was pretty far from my normal way of travel. We did an 8 day “skim the surface as fast as possible” trip (it was a cheap package) - it was as much time as 2 of them could get. Because I knew that I would be able to go back some time (well, I hope I can - ha!), I simply looked at it as building stronger friendships first, with travel second. And it was an amazing week - but it was because I re-ordered my priorities (plus I like them all). Ha!

I travel successfully with my sister. It is a lifetime of sharing experiences, honesty and love that gets us through the experience. You have to be willing to compromise. You can't be the one who picks all the attractions that are seen. The other person (couples) need to have a say as well. You might view this as a negative, but my experience is that I have had some particularly interesting experiences that I might never have had because of the somewhat varied interests of my sister.
I would never have gone to the Pasteur Museum in Paris without her interest. I loved it.

We can be completely honest with each other and communicate when something is going wrong and come up with a solution. Do you feel like you can do that with the people you would be visiting with? We split all lodging costs and then pay our own way for food or attractions and transportation.

Think long and hard before you say yes. Sounds like you wouldn’t have much fun. Go with your gut

A few years ago I had a friend ask if she could join me on my next girlfriend’s trip to Mexico ( I go every year in February with various friends ). I knew it wouldn’t work for me or my other friends to have her join us. I explained that for 10 days we read in the shade at the pool or on the beach, every other day we take a tour of some type, or drive to a nearby point of interest, etc., breakfast is usually in our kitchen with lunch at the beach or pool, unless we are exploring, and dinner out each night around 7:30 returning to our unit between 10 and 11. She went nuts! She wanted to know why we couldn’t cook our own meals and tried to get me to agree to cooking some dinners in the unit. I wouldn’t budge and told her she could eat in the unit anytime she wanted but I enjoy eating out at the different restaurants I’ve frequented over the past 30 years. I’ve made friends with the owners and waitstaff who are there year after year! It’s all part of my Mexico vacation.
I knew she went to bed at 8 and up at 4 A.M everyday. I knew she wouldn’t go once I gave her our typical daily routine. She would have been miserable. I’m going to miss not going this coming February.
I also travel with the same gals to Europe. We travel well together.

Lots of good advice here along the lines of planning out the itinerary yourself, getting their input and then making them aware of the schedule so everyone’s on the same page. I’ve travelled a lot with friends and family and the majority of the time am the one that takes on that planning task. One thing I’ve found is that while being the planner helps me ensure we are having the trip I envisioned having, it can get frustrating and exhausting to always be the leader once actually on the trip - the one directing everyone on where we need to go and when, keeping track of the tickets, and generally keeping the show on the road. It can make one feel a bit like the teacher herding the class along in a field trip. A solution my mom and sister devised for this issue a few trips ago is for each of them to take a day or two of the trip for which they are the leader/responsible person. So even though I’ve planned it, on the day of, they implement and guide us along. It’s nice because it gives me a break from having to be so “on.”

And as others have said, building in an up front understanding that everyone is entitled to take alone time when they need it is really helpful.

We have done a lot of travel in our lives. Some of it with family, most of it on our own and some with friends.

Back in 1983 and 84, we did two trips with family members, including one retired person that never wanted to contribute enough to pay for her meals and the tip (these were European trips). It because a problem, since over a three week period the amount the person was not paying added it significantly. I was the person that usually paid for the check, as I was the one that organized the trip.

Ironically, that person was the person that was more financially secure than anyone.

In more recent years, since I retired (2010) we have done cruises with family or friends. When on the cruise, there are few issues, since room and board are included as is the itinerary. However, we always do a land tour on our own, usually after a cruise and I have learned to resolve issues related to lodging and tours prior to the trip. Also, you can usually get separate checks for meals.

One thing that we have learned is, be sure that you know a person before you plan to travel with them. My wife and I met a nice Australian lady on our first trip to Australia and dined with her a couple of times, as well as did a tour with her one day. A few years later we took a long cruise from Sydney to Seattle and asked her to join us on the cruise. She was a widow and or evenings became a threesome. The nice lady, still nice, took over the conversation every night. Half way through the cruise, we asked to dine without here and it didn't go well. Be sure you know the people you travel with before asking them to travel with you.

Also, I have organized tours with private tour companies while on cruises. The private tours are always cheaper than the ship's tours. Sometimes when you do this the tour company makes you pay all of the fees for everyone in the tour. This means you have to collect from everyone. My advice is don't every do this. I have run into problems almost every time I did this.

While on a river cruises, we have found that the river boat usually has about 150 persons and usually that means you have four tour groups. One group is usually for older people that want to go slower. We don't like to go slow, and be sure you don't get in a group like that, if that is not what you want.

Also, the key to a great time traveling with others is plan, plan and plan. Research your lodgings and book them as well as most tours.

Love the comments so far. In no particular order, here are thoughts swirling through my head after reading through them:

• Money. That could be a big deal with one other couple. We're not in the same income bracket and while I have no worries that they would be leeches, I am concerned that they would need to cut back much more than I want to.
• Upfront honesty and communication will be key. Make sure you have similar interests and if not, make sure they understand there will be times we separate for the greater good of all vacationers.
• My vacation pace. It's intense. You've got a blister?...rub some dirt on it and get back in the game.
• I don't mind being the planner and the tour guide, but I would get frustrated if the sheep show an unwillingness to be herded. We've traveled plenty with extended family on my wife's side and she agrees those trips have always been successful because her family are willing to be sheep. We did 2 weeks to England with my Mother-in-Law in 2018 and it went well. It doesn't hurt that she may be the nicest person in the world.
• A cruise or an RS tour is a very good idea, maybe then adding 2 or 3 days at the beginning or the end.
  
• I don't think I can compare weekend trips we've done with couples to 2 week trips. I sense the dynamics would be completely different.
• Definitely know the travel styles of who you will be travelling with. I did a post a few weeks ago about some close friends whose travel styles are polar opposites to mine. They'd be the people I'd only do weekends with.
• I'd probably be better off if my wife brought a friend who would otherwise travel solo. That way I could ditch them both if we wanted to do different things. I did this a couple of times in
  London when my wife and her Mom wanted to do something else.
• My wife is a social butterfly and it's important that people are her friends so she's much more willing to compromise than I am. Compromising to her compromises will be something I'll have to live with if we do agree to travel with friends.
• If you're a morning person like me, don't travel with a night owl. There's no point in pre-building frustration into your plans because they don't want to start their day until noon when yours starts at 7 (I'm being generous, my day starts 6...when I sleep in).

Allan, I reread my previous answer this morning and realized I’m much different when when we’ve traveled with friends or family in the US. It’s because we’re staying at just one location, such as Arizona or Hawaii or Disneyland. The guys are usually golfing a few days while we’re shopping or enjoying the beach. And then we get together in the evenings. The main difference is that we’re all focused on a relaxation vacation, not a “seeing sites and experiences” vacation.

If not planning something like a RS tour, maybe just be with them for a week at one location where you can each be more relaxed. Then you can head off on your more intense schedule with your wife. Another idea - have your wife look at some options that appeal to her extrovert side - cooking classes, city bike tours, etc. where she can converse with people easier.

Nick, no military blood in me. Structure has always something that seemed natural to me. I've also been a youth hockey and soccer coach for 20 years, setting goals, pre-planning, etc have always been a part of that. I guess it has carried over into everyday life.

Allan " . . . That way I could ditch them both if we wanted to do different things. . . ." Ha, ha - a very telling remark. But good thinking.

The money/food part is very tricky. I traveled domestically for business with a couple of guys who would eat bologna and white bread in the hotel room for every meal, just to save a few bucks (even on per diem!). Definitely worth going over expectations in detail. A lot of people don't realize how much eating in restaurants all the time will cost.

Jean, hopefully 2 years until retirement and then we may take extended vacations. Instead of splitting up on vacation we have thrown around the idea of 4-6 week stays in one location and then offering friends and family an opportunity to visit for a week. That way we can do what we want and then also play tour guide and show off what we've learned.

We did plenty of extended family Disney vacations and I also think that when you stay in one place-especially a familiar place, it is different than what I'm expecting if we invited friends on a European adventure.

Other than weekend trips, the only longer trip has been with a very close friend from childhood. We've taken a few 4 or 5 day baseball trips to follow the Blue Jays. We know each other well and can say anything to each other, plus our interests and ideas of fun are so comparable. 3 years ago in San Francisco we rented bikes and spent 12 hours riding around; hills and all. I can't think of another friend or family member I could do that with. But we also know we could never take a couples trip with our wives. I get along with his wife, but she's a sit at the beach and read all day type of person.

If they're only hinting, I would ignore their hints. If they become more insistent, I would give them a tentative schedule, with times, before they book their trip. I would tell them about hotels that don't match US norms and explain that they have to carry their own bags with no help on public transportation, if this is the way you plan to travel. This might change their minds.

I also agree that it really helps if the sheep are willing to be herded. We took two trips to Europe with my inlaws, one to London and then another one when our daughter was 15 mo old to Paris, Rome and Florence. My inlaws are gone now and these are great memories. But-my mother in law and I could not be more different and what made this work was that my inlaws really appreciated my herding them around. When they went on cruises by themselves, they said they wished I had been there to organize their shore excursions!

My husband and I have gone to Italy and Portugal for 4 weeks each with 2 different couples. Both trips were great because:

• I planned it all with a little input from them
• We stayed where each couple had their own bedroom and bathroom
• We are slow travelers, which our companions are too
• We agreed in advance that we could split up our activities whenever we wanted, which we did occasionally
• We are all easy going
• We all are adventurous eaters and eating out is a big part of our travels
• We all have enough in our budget to occasionally splurge, but since we are not rich. we don't splurge most of the time
• Completely trust the other people
• Had one person keep track of spending on meals, etc. and say whose turn it was to pay in order to keep things even
• Split all meals 50/50 to avoid worrying about a few bucks here and there, and knowing that in the end it is probably a wash

We planned a RS tour in October (hopefully to be rescheduled to 2021) with a different couple and one of the people we traveled with before. The new couple likes a much more intense itinerary, wants to spend much longer at each site, and is not as into eating. I knew that I would be miserable trying to organize a trip for the 5 of us, but going on our first RS tour with them will be great (I'm 99 percent sure). We are all going 3 days before and staying 4 days after the tour, which I am happy to plan. Then my husband and I will spend a week alone at the very end. Traveling with others is really fun for me (very social), but you need to have a little patience and flexibility, or else it will be too stressful.

Another point would be: if you know, for example, that your friends drink a lot at home, then that's what they'll be doing on any trip they go on.
Not fun for anyone.

The god parents of our children are great friends and travel as much us, but never together. We have explored the potential of sharing a trip, but noted there are different styles in travel taste, budget and expectations. We have met up with each for a day while on a journey (Barcelona most recently comes to mind) and enjoyed catching up and sharing a meal. In case you do choose to take the leap I offer a tip my wife and I discovered long ago and always adhere: it is okay to take time away from each other to conduct your exploration (be it an hour, half day, full day). A little bit of separation is healthy.

I saw many interesting suggestions, but I do want to stress what I believe is the main recipe for successful friend-group traveling: don't vow to be attached to each other. Plan the basics like hotels and inter-city transportation, but get an agreement that people are free to spend their days as they please.

Just reading your first paragraph gave me chills of a couple past mistakes I made in that regard: one person wants to set expectations/rules, others are not self-aware enough to care beforehand, then they default to the other person to be the planner/ad-hoc guide, only to blame them and get acrimonious when things don't go their own way on the fly.

If somebody in a potential travel group is serious about pace, how to use or not use time (I, for instance, personally dread any significant time spent on souvenir-shopping), what type of 'meal regime' to have (long lunches, breakfast time), whether the party will agree on a set time to leave the hotel or take it easy on sleeping in, and the others don't engage with the issue or say 'everything's fine, don't worry', conflicts are bound to happen on the trip.

So, in practical terms, European friend-group trips work best if one picks more nights per fewer destinations, so that the basic schedule of cities and means of transportation are set, while people might go their own ways during the days.

Road (car) trips are the riskier, in that sense, because the driver becomes the gatekeeper of other people's experience and mediator of itineraty conflicts of other passengers.

One other couple max. I have learned this from the school of hard knocks. Since I am the organizer I have only myself to blame. We have managed to stay friends with all our travel partners but I had to take a break from traveling with my sister and BIL - we have very different travel styles.

That said.... I think it's critical to have the conversation about expectations. Ask questions like an interview - which could be hard if the friends are not experienced travelers. (I'll get to the ground rules in a minute)
What time do you like to get going in the morning?
Do you like to eat lunch at noon?
Are you a "go go go" person or a "stop and smell the roses" person?
Do you like to stick together as a group all day everyday or do you like time to explore on your own?
Do you like to make a plan and stick with it or do you like to take one day at a time?
Do you pack a carry on bag for a week or do you pack a 25" suitcase for a week?
Do you like to take public transport or do you prefer a car?
How do you like to split a dinner bill? You pay for yours or just split it in 1/2 regardless of who had two glasses of wine or who didn't have coffee?
Notice I didn't say - Do you HAVE to eat lunch at noon - I try not to use "judgmental" words
Ask the questions that you have learned relate to your preferences when you travel.

Ground rules are tough. Once you have asked questions and know if they are likely to have the same travel preferences as you and where they might differ than you can offer your ground rules to ensure you get some of what you prefer. I say "some" because the minute you plan to travel together you have committed to compromise some of your preferences.

We now pretty much travel with two different couples (one at a time). These two couples are very different which is nice for us as we figured out which couple will sail in Croatia with us and which couple likes to explore on their own some. Wait - that's the same couple ... the other couple is pretty needy and I really do have ground rules with them.

When we travel with the more lets call them the "more dependent" couple we literally make a travel book for them including a loose itinerary and links to all the accommodations we will use and any day trip/tours we have scheduled along with all our "travel" plans (flight, rental car &/or train information) ... sounds like a lot of work but we (hubby and I) don't mind a little up front work to make the actual trip easier. We are teaching them to spend a day or two exploring on their own and meeting for dinner to share our day adventures with each other. i want to spend a day cycling in Tuscany - they can go the museums that day.

Let us know what you decide AND then if you chose to travel with them how the heck the trip goes!!!!!

Your gut instinct clearly says no. Listen to it. I’m like you, my travel time is sacred. I put a lot of thought and planning into where I go and I know what I want to do and see. For better or worse, I’m not go with the flow. I’ve had friends (who’ve never left the US before) hint that they’d like to travel with us and I know there’s no way that would work. The only travel I’d do with another family is something like a safari, where everything is planned out by a tour operator and I’d be with a group of people regardless.

I'll go back to my post way up the thread... there's no point having frank conversations if the friends aren't self-aware!

In our case, the couple said they liked a little independence. Nope. They stuck to us like flypaper.

The couple said they don't penny pinch on holiday. Yep, they do. Didn't put a cent for tips, and always pushed for the cheapest restaurants (we don't generally go to pricey places anyway).

The couple said they liked experiencing the culture, but wouldn't go to the Irish pubs for trad.

The couple said they like to walk all over, but their fitness was well below what would be required for even easy trips.

I could go on. As mentioned, it just about ruined our friendship. We recovered, but it wasn't the same for a long time. Its such a shame because we really enjoy their company, just not on the road.

I agree with much of what is already posted above. If you do find yourself traveling with others - make it a "rule" that it's okay to NOT do everything together, everyday. Even with my own clan - I find that I need at least 1/2 day in the middle of the trip for some down time or "me" time. I would even factor this in to the trip. Otherwise - relationships will be tested and nerves rattled.

I love travel planning and my husband and I enjoy the adventure of independent travel, and all the freedom that it allows, but we enjoy going on a fully guided group tour now and then because of the fun social opportunities they provide. Traveling independently with friends is a way to get the best of both worlds. We have a large group of friends of 25-30 years, five couples including us, who'd talked for years about traveling together, and in 2017 we finally stopped talking about it and did it. That trip to Italy, primarily focused on Tuscany, was such great fun that within a few months after our return we were already talking about where to go next. The next trip for our group of ten was Scandinavia. Just as much fun and now we're planning trip #3! A couple of really great advantages to traveling with a large group of friends: you can stay in the kinds of places that are otherwise not feasible, e.g., a stunning five bedroom, five bathroom villa, for less than the cost of five hotel rooms, and then we have all kinds of fabulous indoor and outdoor shared common space, plus a kitchen to make some of our own meals, which is fun (shopping the markets!) and budget-friendly. You can afford private tour guides because you're splitting the cost five ways. I'm the principal planner for these trips and I get started over a year in advance. It requires lots of phone and email communications with my friends, with occasional fun get togethers for in-person discussions. At the very start of the planning, you want to be sure you're all on the same page with respect to budget. We talk about what parts of the trip will be by public transport and what parts will require cars. For the cars, who wants to be a driver? What insurance do we need/want? One ground rule is that everyone can have only a carry-on sized bag and one backpack. (My friends didn't think this would be doable, but I gave a packing lesson and they saw that it would be!) When a hotel is selected and I'm booking the rooms, I find out what everyone wants: queen bed or twins, a room with a view, or to save money, a non-view room? It's a given that we don't all have to be doing everything together on these vacations. If a couple wants to go off on their own one evening, or two couples plan to spend a day together doing something different than what the other three are doing, or the ladies want to spend an afternoon apart from the gents, that's fine. When I was planning our Italy trip, and we couldn't manage to fit in the Cinque Terre with everything else we wanted to see, two couples decided they didn't want to miss the Cinque Terre so we planned that they'd use one of the three rental cars and break off from the group for 2 days to spend some time there. On the first of the two trips we've taken so far, we hadn't planned in advance for how to handle the restaurant bill for group meals. On the trip, we knew that separate checks could be an imposition so we never asked for them. The bill would come and we'd pass it around the table and everyone would figure out how much they owed. This sometimes required asking to have a menu back, and then everyone of course had to add in their share of the bottles of wine and water. Sometimes what was collected around the table fell short and more money had to be added to the pot by whoever was willing to do that. It was a time consuming hassle to get our bills paid! What I'm saying is that group meals can be a challenge. For trip no. 2 we decided we'd equally share the cost of all group meals instead of everyone trying to figure out their share. We discovered the app Splitwise before the second trip and that was great. For a group meal, one couple would hand over their credit card to pay for everyone, and we noted on Splitwise who paid for that meal and who else was present. After the trip, the app easily total us who-owed-who-what to even it all up. Our two friends trips have given us such great shared memories!

Based on the comments so far and my own feelings on the topic, constant communication is key. I think the first question is to ask honestly and openly is if we're compatible travel buddies and warn them what I'm like. Of course if they say yes, I'm pretty sure they're lying...

too funny and most likely too truthful.