First European Trip with 13-year Old Daughter

It's easy to arrange your own train travel. If you don't want to book directly with each country's railway provider then a site like the Trainline might be helpful. It will show you all your options, book tickets and store tickets in your account or on your phone. The administration fee is very small.

For hotels, just use aggregator sites like hotels.com or booking.com to be able to compare your options.

With this itinerary, you will be on trains and checking in and checking out of hotels more than you will be spending time in each of these cities, which really need more than one or two days. If all you want is checkmark travel ( or bucket list travel) meaning OK we’ve been here, OK we’ve been there, then this sounds like the trip for you.

I never use travel agents. Go look at travel guides like Rick Steves & Fodor’s to find hotels in those cities that appeal to you. You can book trains directly on rail operator websites.

I love Maine! My husband and I are going to spend a week at Mt Desert Island in either May or June!

The easiest way to book train travel is to do it yourself, it is easy to do online.

As for the itinerary. "A day or two" is a very short stop in those cities. But if you still insist on it, London-Paris-Amsterdam-Hamburg is a better order to visit those cities.

Traveling every other day or every third day is exhausting and time consuming. You are constantly packing and moving. For me, that is the most stressful part. On a travel day, I find I can't really experience anything because I am frazzled.

As far as a travel agent, I do all my own booking. With the internet, I can really plan it on my own.

"We want to visit several cities...."
You have listed seven cities spread over a vast geographic distance and seem to have 16 (?) days to travel.
(Manchester, Liverpool, London, Amsterdam, Paris, Hamburg and Venice)
Your proposed itinerary shall create memories of travel and a number of "see there" moments. Slow down and give your family the opportunity to "be there" in order to create wonderful memories of a journey.
"Explore XXXXX for a day or two.", means having less than one effective day to be in the city, less for exploring sites within each destination.
Having commenced international travel with daughters as young teens I offer the following tip, have her identify two locations and do her own research on the choices. Forcing, yep it was not a choice, our daughters to invest their time into researching what they desired to do made a huge difference in their engagement and our family enjoyment.
Slow down and invest yourself into absorbing the experiences each destination offers.
Each time you relocate adds expense, travel stress and deducts from your most valuable vacation commodity, TIME!

First, it is your vacation and your choice. It will feel similar to visiting the entire United States during the same amount of time. Fly to San Francisco - spend a day or two, fly to Seattle, to Chicago, fly to Texas, etc. To give you a full visual of what you are choosing, please do the following:

Make an Excel spreadsheet with the number of days in rows and a cell for each hour of the day across the top. Fill in each of your days with these: Color code your sleeping hours in blue; all transportation time including the time to leave the hotel, wait for a train or plane & travel plus the time to take a taxi to the next hotel are color-coded in brown. Look up those times on www.rome2rio.com just for some approximate times for now. Each new location realistically takes an hour to figure out exactly where you’re going and arriving at your first site; color those purple. Next are meals - color them yellow. What you have left are the remaining hours to actually see or do something fun. Color those green. Have your whole family look at it. If you’re not happy with the small amount of actual green cells of fun time left, make some adjustments.

You can use www.booking.com for lodging, and others have given you info for trains. Using a travel agent could easily cause you to spend even more time arriving at the old, historic center of the cities where sites are located because the travel agent may want you staying at the larger hotels that aren’t available where you actually want to be located.

whoa!! slow down and savor each area. One to two days isn't nearly enough time. It takes MUCH MORE TIME to change cities than you think. You will spend more time traveling and moving than enJOYing Europe. She's 13 -- she has her whole life to return to Europe and see more of it. I was 40 before I went to Europe. How much time do you have? Buy the Rick Steves book - Europe Through the Back Door - sometimes it's cheaper on Amazon than on this site. You'll learn tons about trains, how to withdraw money from ATMs, no foreign transaction fee CC - we go to Europe yearly and yet we still read that book every time we go. Also - the seat61.com webpage is a great site to learn about how to book and travel on trains - plus you can even email the man who runs the site with questions. Amsterdam is worthy of at least a visit to the Anne Frank House - get tickets online very early or you won't get in. Italy is worth a whole trip on it's own for Venice, Florence and Rome. Maybe stick to one or 2 countries - you have FIVE countries listed - Europe is meant to be savored, not rushed. Book your own trains - it's easy - research here for hotels or use AAA - they are great, or get the Rick Steves books for great recommendations on hotels. Austria and Switzerland aren't on your list, but they are great options with a teenager. If you're stuck on seeing the UK, I'd do that and just add one more other country - IF you have time.

We used to travel as fast and far as possible in 2 weeks and 3 weekends. And our trips were one big blur. $9.50 per U.S. gallon brought me down to traveling slower--and better.

You'd do best to skip Hamburg and Venice. Manchester/London/Paris and Amsterdam on their own is a full trip for anyone given the time you have allotted for your trip..

We took our daughter to Amsterdam and Bavaria. She still has her coffee table book on Anne Frank.

Just out of curiosity, are you going to Hamburg because of the Beatles? If so, I would rethink that. I didn't find the Beatles exhibits that worthwhile there, although of course YMMV.

But also keep in mind that Hamburg is very much out of the way from Paris to Venice, and while I liked Hamburg (it's a cool city), I don't know that I would spend 2 full days travel traveling from Paris and to Venice with the time you have to spend; especially at the expense of Paris and Venice. I would tack on an extra day to London, Paris, or Venice and skip Hamburg.

I'm with David in that I would probably skip Venice as well, but I don't think you want to do that, which I understand. However, I would skip Hamburg.

tracycope1, welcome to the forum. Just repeating what's been said, every time you say in your post ". . . take train . . . " what you're using up is one half to one whole day just in transit. So that " . . . day or two . . ." is actually zero to one day actually being somewhere.

Football matches are often changed to suit tv schedules so be prepared for the match to be anywhere between Friday night and Sunday afternoon - the actual time will be posted a couple of weeks out.

Pick three locations maximum for your timescale unless you want to spend longer in transit than actually seeing places. Book rail tickets and flights online direct with the operators. Why pay an agent for what is a straight forward task?

I sincerely hope you are taking all of the advice here to heart. A day or 2 in each place isn't going to even scratch the surface. And that is supposing you are giving a full extra day for transiting between each city, which I don't think you've even considered.

As a very valuable exercise, do what Continental suggested, to see just how thinly you are spread out with this plan of yours. To realistically visit all these places you need at least triple the number of days for this trip.

In this day and age you'd be hard pressed to find a TA willing to do these kinds of bookings, since they won't get a commission on train tickets, and would likely only get commissions on very high end hotels, which wouldn't likely be in the areas you'll want to sight see from. A good guidebook like Europe Through the Back Door can teach you how to do all this yourself. For European train travel, familiarize yourself with the contents of the Man in Seat 61 website.

With air travel being as chaotic as it currently runs, don't plan on arriving at your first destination on time. My last few international trips had significant delays- one 24 hours and one six hours. You also aren't building in time for train delays, bad weather, getting lost, etc. The best laid plans....
And I agree- you are traveling way too much, you will be tired of trains by the end of your trip. Slow down, and actually feel like you're there!
But you all are so lucky to be able to share a trip like this, and make these memories. Safe travels!

I would agree that you are rushing about too much.
Each time you change locations takes time : pack up bags, check out of hotel, get to train station, find train, travel on train, get to next hotel from station, check in, unpack bags.
Move again after one day.

Also, have you asked your 13 year old what she wants to see?

Hi Tracy,
How many nights will you be in Europe not counting the flight over? It sounds like you need three nights in Liverpool alone. Arrival day is a business day as you settle in. Furthermore, there’s three of you and one is 13, this makes it even more challenging.
I agree with the poster who said involve your daughter in the planning process and your wife should share input as well. The top sights in London are:
Westminster Abbey (rent the audio guide or don’t go).
Churchill War Rooms (buy tickets before leaving home).
British Museum (great place if it rains and enjoy lunch at the café).
Tower of London
Victoria and Albert Museum
Spend evening(s) at the theatre.
Ride the hop on hop off bus tour but don’t get off. This takes all day because traffic is thick.
Don’t include more than two activities during the day and go to the theatre at night. London requires a minimum of five nights.
Take the Eurostar to Paris as Badger said. In Paris the top sights are:
Explore Ile St. Louis, Paris’s birthplace.
Orsay Museum
Pont Alexandre III Bridge
Stroll Champs-Elysées to Arc de Triomphe.
Visit Montmartre
You need a minimum of four nights in Paris.
Amsterdam requires a minimum of three nights and why Hamburg?
Venice needs three nights. One day to see the sights (follow the crowd) and the second day to get lost. Don’t worry, it’s not that big. You can fly nonstop from AMS to VCE, don’t take trains.

In this day and age you'd be hard pressed to find a TA willing to do these kinds of bookings, since they won't get a commission on train tickets

RailEurope pays commission but you'll pay more buying from RailEurope.

Posted by tracycope1 on 03/17/19 03:11 PM
We want to take our 13-year old daughter to Europe for the first time and would like to accomplish a lot in 2 weeks. We will travel from Boston and would like to visit Rome, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, London, and Liverpool (so we can see our favorite team play
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/need-help-with-european-itinerary

How is it that your daughter is still 13 yrs old, four years later?

What is your strategy for securing Liverpool FC tickets? Premier League games are very difficult to obtain tickets for and demand far exceeds availability. Tickets are offered first to season ticket holders and members of the team supporters club and then cascaded down through a variety of other groups before finally being released to the general public if there are any left. My advice would be to join the supporters club for a good chance to secure tickets but bear in mind what Jennifer has highlighted, games may be moved at short notice to accommodate TV schedules.

Checked the OP's posting history and found essentially the same post from 2019, 2020 and now 2023.
Am wondering if we are being "punked"?

good catches. I hadn't remembered the 13 year old daughter, nor the fact that this is nearly identical to the first post https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/need-help-with-european-itinerary where the daughter was 13 in March of 2019, then there was the post just before Covid in January 2020, and now this in January 2023 where the trip will be in late September 2023 with the 13 year old daughter.

I'm confused.

tracycope1, can you set us straight?

My goodness. You went back to view my original post to see if I was punking folks? When I wrote the original post I was embarrassed to admit that I was planning a trip years in advance, so I pretended that we were going soon. That's how excited my wife and I have been about going. Sorry if this was a serious sin. We are indeed going in September 2023. And thanks to those giving me the advice I asked for. I stated that I realize that it will be a whirlwind trip and we are okay with that. It's our trip. And FYI, when I was in my 30's and my dad was in his 50's we took a one week trip to Europe and visited Vienna, Prague and Budapest - we had the best time. Thanks for those who provided advice that I asked for, but in retrospect I almost wish I hadn't posted.

thanks for the clarification. It just shows that some of us have been around for a very long time and unusual patterns get noticed because some of us have pretty good memories.

If somebody hasn't posted recently we also go back for context. So three similar posts raises questions. If you put yourself in the place of folks helping folks and wanting to do the best for them you might see why.

Hey, your trip is your trip. But experienced hands who want the best for you may well point out issues that their experience tells them might be unpleasant for the person posting the question.

It is all meant in the best possible way.

I'm glad that you did repost, and that you replied just now.

I’d do Paris, then Amsterdam. Fly Hamburg to Venice. Have fun !

A day or two in London and Paris? Travel is very exciting but please don’t miss the opportunity to see these cities by running around and jumping on transportation to the next great place. Actually see them!

Please, not "a day or two" in any of the major cities. You can't see much in those cities in that amount of time. Getting to Venice by train would take a long time. At most, only London, Paris and Amsterdam in addition to Liverpool.

I have been to Guatemala-Antigua and Huehuetenango and have many fond memories of the people there.

I actually am not a fan of slow travel, "this place NEEDS THREE FULL DAYS or else you aren't truly experiencing it" or that type of thinking . I think 2 nights can work in some places to get a taste (Venice, Naples, Rothenburg) I have never done any 1 night stays. I usually do 3 nights in place so it gives me 2 full days. I'd cut out Hamburg and Venice (while nice, its out of the way) the other locations are at least geographically close. I just took the 1-2 days per Hamburg and Venice and added to the other 4 destinations. If you don't have 12 nights, I'd cut a night Amsterdam first, then a night from Liverpool. If you don't have 10 nights, I'd cut Amsterdam completely.
n=nights
3n Liverpool. 1st day is a waste since you just arrived, jetlagged, another day for the game.
3n London (I went to Wimbledon so I actually didn't experience London itself but If its similar to Paris 3 nights is ok, which is 2 full days)
3n Amsterdam (very small I stayed 4 nights and felt it was one night too long)
3n Paris (two full days)
Fly back to USA.

This is your trip. You do it your way. Your daughter (and you) will get a good overview of places she might like to visit again. But I agree with previous posters to get her involved in the planning.

Do you know https://www.seat61.com/ ? I don't see anyone mentioning it, but it is an amazing overview of everything "train". We used his two routes from Copenhagen to London in November.

One thought: with your limited time I think I would fly from Hamburg to Venice to get an extra day there.

Unpopular opinion-You are doing way too many cities.Your daughter is 13 and you and her will see more of Europe. Staying two days in each location and taking trains means having one day to explore the city then packing up and moving again. Madness and having a niece who was that age not long ago, you will have one grumpy teenager. And wasting a whole lot of money on travel.

My advice would to go to the UK and France. There are lots of things to do in France other than Paris. Going to Paris then to Hamburg and then Venice means you will see train stations. Let your daughter explore the UK and France. Let her walk around and find a great neighborhood bakery every morning and just enjoy being together as a family.

You might be able to see a lot of a city if you're only there for a day or two.

But you might get bad weather or transit strikes and you don't get to see too many things.

In addition to the comments about the difficulty of getting tickets for Liverpool FC and about football matches that are often changed to suit tv schedules, you have another major issue in planning your trip; the schedule for the 2023/2024 season that starts on August 12, 2023 won’t be announced until June. So until June you have no way of knowing whether or not Liverpool will even play a match in their home stadium during the few days you’re there. Even if you plan to be in Liverpool for an entire weekend, there’s still a 50/50 chance they will play an away match.
And even if you wait until June to plan your trip, which probably is too late to get decent airfare etc. etc., the only thing you will know then, is at what weekends they will play at home. You won’t know the exact day and time until a few weeks before the actual match.

So while you are spending most of your day watching a football match, what will your daughter be doing? To be honest between football and trains it sounds a like a pretty boring time for a thirteen year old girl.....

I went on a similar and very life-changing trip with my parents when I was about your daughter's age. (I spent the rest of my youth learning the languages and return to some of the same places as often as I can. They were instant favorites, in part because my parents chose well and in part because the trip made such an impression on me.)

You had me until Hamburg and then you really lost me at Venice. That would be too far for a road warrior, let along an underage first-timer. It's tempting to see more, of course, but if you go to fast you'll just be tired, and get "if it's Tuesday this must be Vienna" syndrome.

My family's trip (in the 80s!) was roughly: Ghent, Amsterdam, Paris, London, Bath/Wells, in about 2 weeks. Not that different than what you're proposing, really. Bath and Wells as a different England add-on than Liverpool, an unimportant difference; and Belgium instead of adding tons of travel distance with Hamburg or Venice, an important difference.

I think it's in the introduction to Rick Steves's books that they write you should travel as if you're going to return one day. Hamburg and Venice are great places, but parts of different trips that you can take in the future.

Football, London, Paris, Ghent, Amsterdam home. Or go with your plan of two weeks of transiting from airports to hotel check-ins to train station to staring out the window at power plants and highways, rinse repeat. Then you can go home and show your friends souvenir hotel room keys and pictures of the seats in front of you.

Or ditch the football, fly straight to the continent, and tour a more standard, established grand tour itinerary.

But get it out there and do it - your kid's not going to be 13 forever (?)

Tracy,

I realize how disheartening all of these comments must be. I had a similarly fast paced trip scheduled pre-Covid (which got canceled) and I received the same feedback. At the time, it really stressed me out, but eventually I realized everyone was just trying to help and I think the same is true here.

With that said though, it's YOUR adventure! Will it be fast paced? Yes. May you wish you had eliminated a couple stops? Maybe, maybe not. Will you still make wonderful memories regardless? Absolutely!!

My introduction to Europe was a 9 day whirlwind of a trip with school when I was 16 years old. In that time we saw Paris, Nice, Monaco, Pisa, Florence and Rome. Sounds crazy, right? Mind you it was with a tour, but it was still very fast paced. Let me tell you something though..I LOVED every single second of it. I still talk about the memories I made on that trip, and I remember it clearly, it's not a blur. Tracy, that trip changed my LIFE!! It opened the doors of travel and made me want more. More adventure, more experiences, more memories, and now as an adult I'm doing just that.

So, consider what has been said, but you know your family best so if you decide that this is the trip for you, go for it!

Try to stay in accommodations that are as centrally located as possible to maximize the time you have on the ground. Pick out 2-3 must see sights in each city and plan ahead to avoid wasting time in lines and tryingto figureout how to get to each. Get out ahead of the crowds early in the morning, and travel light.

I wish you all the best in planning this trip! It will certainly be one to remember ❤.

PQ

The planning Queen makes a good point about making all other logistics as smooth and efficient as possible if you are going to do a many destinations, many short stays, many long train rides trip. Pick efficient hotels, don't take trips to out of town sights, don't burn a lot of time waiting for tours to start and waiting for tables at restaurants, etc. With your proposed trip format you definitely want everything outside of the major logistics to be smooth quick and easy.

Still though I would pick a region, stay in some places longer, and massage your desire to hit more locations by doing some day trips.

As the above poster said though, it's your trip. People who are weighing in like I did above are doing so out of deep experience, not some set of generalized theory. You're almost 100% for sure going to have a better experience if you don't spread yourself like a tablespoon of peanut butter for a whole loaf of bread. But it's your baby, and if it's your deepest want to walk out of the train station in as many iconic places as possible and gaze upon the central square, follow your heart.

In July 2016 I spent 8 nights in London. (I was 33. It was a solo trip). At that time I wrongly believed I could only see one city per trip. I wish i had gone outside London, at least to Stonehenge, and the city of Bath. All of the other replies are approximately right about giving yourself enough time in each location you stop at.

I suggest you spent your entire trip in England. Write yourself an approximate day-by-day itinerary and post it and wee can give better suggestions. Rick steves' guides are good for the average first-time traveler. The Rough Guide is another guidebook series I like. ... in London, The British museum deserves a day; the royal palace; the Victoria and Albert museum was well worth the time, the Wallace Collection is a less commonly visited museum that occupied me for at least 3 hours, the Tate museum has 2 locations (the Tate Britain, and Tate Modern); the castle of London; I didn't make time for the churchhill- war room... there is more... you could see a play... don't skip museums and sites that could be of interest just to rush to a other country just to say you went there. Usually it is a waste of time to go to a country if you don't give yourself time to see it properly.

Don’t be discouraged by the naysayers stating that your itinerary is too fast-paced, Tracy. My husband and I have traveled to different countries in Europe many times with our daughter (an only child) who is now 14 years old. While we typically travel at a slower pace than what you are planning, I have no doubt my teen would be thrilled with a “whirlwind” itinerary that highlighted some of Europe’s best cities and sights. I second the advice about securing accommodations close to the “ tourist centers” to maximize your time. And to the person who questioned whether a 13 year old girl would enjoy a premier league football match has clearly never been to one. Enjoy your trip and the lasting memories you’ll surely make with your family!