Need Help with European Itinerary

Those are some great cities. It would be to fast of a pace for some people, many people. Is there a reason that Brussels is among those great cities? If you wanted to slow down just a bit, I'd drop Brussels.

Do you know your arrival and departure cities?

Just looking at your list of cities without knowing where you arrive and depart, I would drop Rome and Brussels and focus on having a fantastic time in Paris, Amsterdam, London, and Liverpool.

Yes, Brussels is the least important stop on my list, but it holds certain intrigue for both me and my daughter. If necessary we will omit that destination or keep it to a half-day visit. Truth be told, I want to get good beer and she wants to get good chocolate.

Settle the airline tickets the biggest expense upfront first it is easier to outline a trip that way.

We will be flying out of Boston and so I thought it would be best to fly to Rome and work our way back to Liverpool to see a game on a Saturday and then fly back from Manchester. I chose the cities I did because those are the ones that my daughter would like to visit and this will be the first opportunity we have to visit Europe. We live in rural northern Maine and my wife's family lives in Guatemala so we visit there once a year (beautiful country - email me at tracycope1@aol.com if you want information on tips about visiting there) and my mom lives in Ohio, so our vacation time is usually filled up.

Getting personal advice and tips is a wonderful thing. Keep it coming, please.

Tracy

I think that trying to figure out airfares, train schedules, and arrange getting tickets to a Liverpool game will be quite an adventure. Thankfully this will be half the fun. It'll probably cost us a small fortune but this will be a celebration for her becoming a teenager and for me turning 60 (yes, we had our daughter late in life). And we are planning ahead - this trip will not take place until 2021.

You can get great beer and chocolate anywhere in Europe. With that said, I really liked Brussels. But your other cities really have more to offer.

Rome 3 nights
Fly to Paris
Paris 3 nights
Train to Brussels
Lock your bag up at the station visit Grand Place get a beer and chocolate.
Brussels 1 day
Train to Amsterdam
Amsterdam 3 nights
Fly to London
London and Liverpool 5 nights

All of these suggestions are appreciated.

I won't try to talk you out of this itinerary, where you'll be spending all or part of five days in transit, not counting your transatlantic flights. Book "open jaw" flights ("multi city on search engines like kayak.com), from Boston to Rome and from either Manchester (near Liverpool) or Heathrow to Boston. You've got the cities in almost the right sequence. I'd suggest flying from Rome to Paris, then the high-speed Thalys train to Amsterdam and back to Brussels, then the high-speed Eurostar train to London, then another train to Liverpool and another to your departure city.

Use booking.com to look for hotels, as centrally located as you can afford in each city. Use the "Explore Europe" link on this website to explore and prioritize your sightseeing options for the time you'll have in each city. Keep in mind that moving between cities will take at least half a day, including checking in and out, packing and unpacking, getting between hotels and stations or airports. If you decide to skip one city, I'd recommend Brussels. Rome, Paris, and London are world-class cities where most on this forum would happily spend at least a week each, and Amsterdam isn't far behind.

EDIT -- Great Belgian beer and chocolate should be available in the other cities you're visiting, especially the northern ones.

Your daughter is lucky to be able to make this trip, and hopefully will have many chances to return to Europe for longer visits. She'll learn a lot about travel logistics and hopefully be exposed to some beautiful and historic buildings and slices of urban life.

First of all, this sounds like the adventure of a lifetime!

Second, if this were my trip I'd start thinking ahead in blocks. If I need to be in Liverpool on X date, then how soon before the game do I want to arrive? The day before? (Safest bet if attending the game is a priority.) And when do I fly out? 8 am the NEXT morning? 3 pm the next day? The day after that? Fix things in your target city for this game, and then work your way backwards.

So for all the other cities, you're working backwards from this one goal. Rome and Paris are easily doable. Brussels and Amsterdam are also doable, but require some more work.

Do you want to take trains from point A to B to C? Are inter-Europe flights an option in places?

Depending on your US point of departure, you might be able to fly into Amsterdam. Then you could start taking trains/flights. OR you could fly into Rome just as easily.

One thing I would DEFINITELY do before I firm up my plans is list the MUST DO things in each city listed above. I want to see/do/experience THIS in Rome. I must see Y in Paris. Etc. Once you have your must do's in place, you can better see how much time to allot to each one.

It's great that you have so much planning time. For many of us, the planning is close to half the fun. I encourage you to visit your local library and borrow guide books for the cities/countries you hope to visit. Start making lists of things you think you'd like to do in each one. Ask yourself how many days that might require in each city (it will probably vary quite a bit). Don't forget to allow time to get from sight to sight, to relax a bit and to eat.

The user-friendly Deutsche Bahn website is great for exploring how long it will take to travel from city to city by train, though you'll have to look elsewhere to see fares.

Skyscanner is a good source for info on budget flights within Europe. Although any flights you'd take for your proposed itinerary would be relatively short, don't forget you'll probably need to leave your hotel close to 3 hours before departure time to allow for security procedures at the airport, and it may take an hour or more after you land before you're at your hotel. (On your arrival day at the beginning of your trip you'll need more time on both ends of the flight.) So even a short flight is likely to take about 5 hours, and it can be longer.

Every time you change hotels, you're going to lose at least half a day of sightseeing time, so if you're planning to spend 3 nights somewhere, you'll really only have 2 full days to see that city plus a few hours on your arrival day.

Research on sightseeing possibilities is really important to help you understand how much time your family (not me, not other posters here, not Rick Steves) will want to spend in each place.

Also keep in mind that many (I think most) people step off overnight flights both jetlagged and severely sleep-deprived. The first (arrival) day isn't much of a sightseeing day for most of us. The last day is basically just for getting to the airport and flying home. So you need to look at how many nights you are prepared to spend in Europe. Subtracting 1 from that number will tell you how many full, non-jetlagged (one hopes) days you will have--until you start spending half a day moving from place to place, that is. Looked at this way, most people's "14-day" trips turn in to 12-day trips, less however many half-days get lost during relocations. It is far better to be realistic from the beginning rather than trying to shoehorn four days' worth of sightseeing in to 2-1/2 days (or 1-1/2) after you've bought your airline tickets and booked hotels.

You interests cover a wide geographical area which is going to see you losing a lot of time on trains, buses or planes. You would benefit greatly from adding more days to this trip.

FYI - my daughter has read all of the comments and enjoyed them immensely. We love thinking about world travel.

Your plans are only too common no this blog. You plan too much in the time allotted.

The first time I visited Rome, I spent 6 days and still didn't see all that I wanted to see. Paris, again I spent 5 days and needed more.

You plan six places in two weeks. 6 divided by 14 = 2.33

Also, if you travel so much that will eliminate a lot of your time due to travel. You will need to fly taking much time. Even taking the train from London to Paris or Amsterdam takes much time. Paris to Rome is half a day flying and more taking the train.

Eliminate Liverpool. Been there, its OK, but it is not, in my opinion in the top 10 cities in the UK to visit.

Brussels has the Grand Plaza, which is awesome, but it is not that awesome. Nearby Brugges is much better for a day.

I suggest going with Rome, Paris and London for sure. Add one more city if you like. You might like Florence, which is much closer to Rome.

Tickets for football games can be difficult to get hold of for Premiership matches. Due to TV scheduling, matches are often rearranged anytime between Friday and Monday night, with about 3 weeks notice.

Paris and London would fill a 2 week trip for me, as I prefer to see places, rather than spend half a trip in transit. Brussels is my least favourite European city. You can get great chocolate in Paris and beer anywhere, as there are many niche breweries everywhere.

Good luck. You will need a holiday to recover from this trip!

I may eliminate some cities on this list but I'm okay with packing a lot into a few days, When my dad was 65 I took him on a trip where we visited Vienna, Prague and Budapest - all in one week. I'm forever grateful that we were able to take this trip - he passed away a few years later.

I WILL try to talk you out of this itinerary. It is too much and you will end up seeing too little.

I do not know what your true priorities are, but if you take the time to work that out you will have a much better trip in every way. Brutal honesty before = success during = great memories after.

Jazz seems to have put together a feasible itinerary. You could even do it 'backwards' and fly home from Rome.

Start with the inflexible "must have date" and add on from there.

I travel with my elderly father and this is hour we rough out our trip. I also think RS is right. Day 1 in City B is better the day 4 in city A. Usually
So here is what I do.
Start by making two lists per person going. No peaking at each other’s lists (this is really important I stress it enough) One list is everything you want to do on the trip. The next list is the absolutely MUST do stuff or the trip is ruined. Spend at LEAST two days on this as things will come to you over time. Feel free to look online and to use guide books. Never put something on the must list from these source add it to the regular list. If an hour or two latter it is still important then you add it to the must do list.
After a couple days sit down and combine your lists and hers into just a Must do and a would be nice. Now spend a week or so researching what you have on the list and getting realistic estimates of time needed for each thing. I use 1/4 day segments. If two things are EXTREMELY short and right next to each other you can combine them. “Eat Gelato, walk the Champs Elyseese, vista Arch De Triumph “ for instance
Now with this information in hand
Write out the number of days you will be in Europe leaving 5 rows per day (4 quarters and a space)
Starting with the most important place or city fill in that day from the list and work your way down until you run out of days or things to do (I bet days run out first)
Note that travel (between cities) always takes at least half a day between checking out. Getting to the station or airport traveling getting from the station or airport and checking in.
It will look like the following
Day 1 Rome
Fly in
Clear airport/cap to hotel/ drop off bags
Visit Pantheon
Walk around, eat gelato, try to stay awake
Day 2 Rome
Vatican
Vatican
Trevi Fountain
Shopping
Day 3
Coliseum
Forum
Travel to Airport
Flight to Paris/cap to hotel /check in

And so on. When done make a list of things to do in the cites you visit that did not fit on the list. These are your fill ins if you have time or have to change your plans.

I have used this on two trips to Europe and two multi week trips in the US in the last 5 years and it works great. Feel free once you rough out your planes to ask back here about the overall trip or about spicific as you are working this out. Use lots of things to get info. But whatever you do Do NOT under estimate the time at each location. It is great to have extra time to add in but it would SUCK to run short and miss some must see because you tried to add in something less important. If your daughter really really really wants to go to the top of the Eiffel Tower (as an example) but you messed around in a Museum that was not that important to either of you and the line is so long to catch the upper elevator that you can’t make it. Guess what she will ALWAS remember?

My first trip to Europe I was 8 or 9 (40+ years ago). And I still can tell you what I wanted to do and couldn’t do more then what we did. I know looking at it that way sucks but it is the truth. That is the way we are built. I didn’t get to the top of the Eiffel Tower on my two attempts because of a strike the first time and weather the second. I had great trips but that is still a raw spot as it was on my Absolute Must See list both times!
It is sad to have to cut a duty you want to visit, but it is absolutely tragic to visit a city and not see what you really realy realy wanted to see in that city.
Your Daughter is young. She will probably go backto Europe in the future so cutting a city or two will not hurt that much but missing out on what she wanted to do will get itvtissed back at you for the rest of your live. ;).
And remember she will choose your old folks home for you. ;)

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Douglas, you are very funny. Actually we have a home in Guatemala City where we hope to live at least part time when we retire.

We will probably knock a city or two off my list. My wife and I might take our daughter on a second European trip when she graduates high school and we can visit the places we missed on our first trip. After that, I'm hoping my daughter will start taking us on trips.

There are generally two schools of thought on this board. The majority of people are in the "travel for a long time and stay a long time in each place." Fewer of us are in the "go a lot of places and stay a short amount of time in each." I am more toward spectrum #2 but would probably be more of a spectrum #1-er if I had more time and money!

That being said, even as an advocate for strategy #2, even I think you are trying to do too much for 2 weeks. I have a 12-year old daughter and she would totally melt down on me with your schedule. I believe you said you have been to Europe before, so you are used to the time change, but you don't know how your daughter will react. Last summer my 8-year old did great with the time change, but my 12-year old struggled with it the entire trip.

The three major cities in your itinerary (Rome, Paris, London) are HUGE cities that are geographically spread out. You will spend a lot of time just in the cities themselves getting from one attraction to another. It's not like all the "good attractions" are right near each other. Those cities wear you out. Even just doing one thing per day, e.g. in London one day the British Museum, the next the Tower of London, will wear. you. out. I thought my husband was going to kill me in Paris when I made him climb the Arc du Triomphe after walking all day.

Brussels is a dump. Search on this forum and you will find many people who echo that sentiment. The countryside (Bruges, Ghent) is much better. You say you want good beer....Britain is extremely well-known for beer (and gin). You say you want good chocolate....save that for a future trip, say Switzerland, or get some via mail order. It is not worth making a side trip to Brussels for chocolate.

If I were you (and I'm not, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but know that all who respond on this board are truly trying to be helpful) I'd pare back your plans and make plans for a second European trip a couple years later after funds rebound. Remember that a "14-day European trip" is actually 12 nights. (You lose the night flying over there.) I'd do:

• Fly BOS - Amsterdam. Sleep 2-3 nights Amsterdam.
• Fast Thalys train from AMS to Paris. (Stop one night in Brussels if you must, since it's on the way, but for this trip I would honestly skip it.) Sleep 3-4 nights Paris.
• Eurostar from Paris to London. Sleep 3-4 nights London.
• Train from London to Liverpool. Sleep 1-2 nights Liverpool. (Or, if soccer tix don't work out, stay the extra 2 nights in London and try to catch a game in the metro area for another EPL team.)
• Train from Liverpool back to London, or to Manchester, depending on which has the cheaper flight home. You're lucky to be flying from Boston, which has a ton of amazing flight options.

Good luck figuring out what to do! I think a PP's idea of making lists of "must-dos" and then combining them and rank-ordering them is an excellent idea.

What do you mean by wanting “to accomplish a lot” during your 2 weeks in Europe? Do you mean see a lot of Big Sites? You could certainly get to all the cities you mention and see Big Sites in 2 weeks. But I think your trip will be much more satisfying if you slow down. You will still see 2 weeks worth of stuff. I prefer trips that mix big cities with smaller towns. I would hate for you to waste a lot of time traveling between your cities. You’ll lose half a day flying from Rome to anywhere else on your list. You have plenty of time to plan. My preference is to spend my whole trip in one country and to really get a feel for it.