European Public Transit - direct payment by credit card at turnstiles or on buses

London yes

Not in Paris !

Yes, works in London.

I was in Rome a month ago. I had read that one could tap credit card and pay on buses. However, i chose instead to buy a one week transit pass for this reason: i had read on the Travel Forum about extremely crowded Rome buses where a passenger once inside bus couldn’t push through to validation machine so the only option was to hand his/her phone to someone by the machine. I did not want my phone leaving my hands.

As others said, yes, London and Rome (though Rome is tap in only, for a set time period) as well. In the Netherlands, the whole country is on a unified tap to pay system for Trains, Buses, Tram, and Metro, theirs is tap in and out. I have also used tap in Lisbon for the Metro.

Germany however, I am not sure tap is used anywhere, Paris is not Tap, but they have expanded the digital Navigo to Apple phones, (I believe it was already functional for Android) so you can get close to tap. Belgium still uses tickets, but with the app and various passes, it is mostly hop on and go, just have proof of ticket.

Overall, it seems every year someplace is rolling out tap to pay on transit.

Budapest on the M1 line. But here is the issue, those tap and go gates are single ride tickets. If in Budapest every line and tram and bus were equipped and you used them to the extent that many tourists smartly do, all those single ride tickets would greatly exceed the cost of a multi day pass.

In contrast, London's tap and go system keeps track of daily and weekly fare caps and limits charges accordingly. The weekly caps are fixed on a Monday to Sunday week.

For other time time periods the 7 day Travelcard gives flexibility for the 7 consecutive days you want to use it.

Not in Berlin and Hamburg - no access barrier systems.

German speaking Europe (and adjacent countries) does not believe in putting barriers at stations. You should be able to get from street to train without breaking your stride. So no turnstiles or gates.

But pay as you go using your credit card does exist. In Switzerland they developped a system called "Fairtiq" that is now marketed as "easy ride" in Switzerland. You have an app. and you "check in" and "check out" using the app. All the convenience of "Tap in, tap out" without the public transit company having to waste money on card readers or barriers. :-)
This technology is now also used in parts of Austria and Germany, and is being trialed in Belgium.

I suspect that the German speaking countries, when they built their systems, just copied what the Hungarians were already doing (no turnstiles).

Even our one metro line that does have tap and go single ride tickets, there is no turnstile, just a card reader that takes a few seconds to use. To be honest, I think its on that one metro because its the one the tourist use and its for their convenience; not for Hungarians (they use multiple day passes for the most part).

I can’t find a written explanation of why there are not turnstiles in Budapest, but as the metro trains run every 3 to 5 minutes I doubt it has much to do with breaking a stride. As Hungarians don't have a 3 to 5 minute stride.

Or maybe not turnstiles for consistency, because the one ticket or one pass works on the metro, the tram, the trolley and the bus. You really can't put turnstiles at ever tram, trolley and bus stop and that’s the overwhelming majority of the use of the tickets.

Then what would we do with the old folks (no ticket required for 65+) and the Ukrainians (no ticket required)? Now we would have to print free tickets to use at a turnstile? Naaaaaa.

How do the German speaking countries handle the free passes for the old folks and refugees?

For the metro I would guess (just a guess) that the labor involved in spot checks is cheaper than buying and maintaining turnstiles. That and the fines the tourists pay for not buying tickets is a great subsidy to the system.

We have an app too, BudapestGo, if you buy a single ticket you must electronically validate it when you get on (there is a QR code at the door); again, not used by many locals. With the multiple day passes, you just show your phone when asked (rarely).

By the way, th co-inventor of the turnstile had a German surname: Trubenbach So that explains a lot.

Buses in Ireland require exact change. Or, in other words, whatever currency you have that exceeds the listed fare.

Odd given the generally high level of IT capability in the emerald isle.

But in the Republic of Ireland most people, including tourists, should be using the Leap Visitor card in Dublin or the National Leap Card in the rest of the country. On the independent long distance services which don't take Leap they all take card payment, so it would now be very unusual to be paying a cash bus fare.
Especially as Leap gives you about 1/3 off the price of 'cash' fares.

I suspect that the German speaking countries, when they built their
systems, just copied what the Hungarians were already doing (no
turnstiles).

Don't forget that Hungary was still part of the Austrian-Hungarian empire when they started with their metro system. Anyway, un-gated public transit is common. It is also the way things are done in Norway, Denmark, Finland, and the Czech Republic. It is still common in Belgium (only the Brussels Metro now has the gates).

The Netherlands went from un-gated to gated in a big way, and the implementation still has a lot of issues. Not a model to copy.

In contrast, London's tap and go system keeps track of daily and
weekly fare caps and limits charges accordingly. The weekly caps are
fixed on a Monday to Sunday week. For other time time periods the 7
day Travelcard gives flexibility for the 7 consecutive days you want
to use it.

CW that souds like a lot to comprehend. You know me. I am pretty simple.

I compared the costs in Berlin, Prague, Vienna and Budapest, if anyone is interested: https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ai7Zk-szxfTJi85Ve4g0WtxVyCV0fQ?e=xbCBb4

Don't forget that Hungary was still part of the Austrian-Hungarian
empire when they started with their metro system.

WengenK, that was just a good humored jab.

One of our RS members tells a story (sorry I cant find it right now, but in general ...) that Vienna would have beat Budapest to it except that Franz Joey compared an underground to crawling around under the earth which was beneath Austrians. Apparently his short sightedness didnt last long.

There is a similar story about the Hungarian State Opera that involves Franz Joey.

Sofia, Bulgaria metro was tap credit card or buy a ticket from a machine. Visited in April 2024.

Berlin started 1825 with public transport and 1867 with a horse-based train system. So, I am not sure who copied from whom. Maybe no copying at all.

The linked price comparison contains wrong price for Berlin 24hrs ticket; the price is still 9.90 EUR for the Berlin area covering 891.8 sqkm. The areas of the compared cities are very different (Berlin's area is outstanding by far, partly double size) but neither shown nor considered in the comparison but worth mentioning.

Not only seniors but all people which receive social funding have access to reduced prices of public transport and other services which is imo more fair and meaningful than splitting up by age group. A very few groups receive free transport based on a pass that does not need to be bought.

And for the interested ones: the ratio of people not paying the ticket fee in Berlin transport is around 3%.

A newer satisfaction survey of travelers resulted in Berlin has "Best public transport in the world”: Prague closely on rank 2.

MarkK, all good points and illustrates why its hard to compare things.

Berlin started … 1867 with a horse-based train system.

1867 would be the year after Budapest which was long after the French and English were doing it. So we probalby copied the English (doubt we would copy the French)

Yes MarkK, I used the prices for the ABC ticket in Berlin as I guessed that would be a fair comparison and what a lot of Tourists would likely buy. In Hungary, the Pest County monthly ticket prices which for 2 euro more would open up about 2,500 square miles, or the Hungary Monthly pass wich for about 20 euro more opens up the entire country, including trains. The Hungary pass can be a good way for tourist to save money. I didn’t look for the social discount categories, as I was looking from a tourist perspective. But yes, here too (and I suspect in most cities) there are a number of "need" catagories with discount or free, my favorite is the discount for people looking for work. Speaking of which, the trains are free for the old folks too.

Also the higher prices in Vienna and Berlin if you were to look at them as a percentage of the mean individual income of the residents is probably a better deal than Hungary. But again, I was just looking at tourists.

A newer satisfaction survey of travelers resulted in Berlin has "Best
public transport in the world”: Prague closely on rank 2.

Something to be proud of. Those “travelers” were the local population. I assume that a lot of the satisfaction transfers to use as a tourist too. But that would be an interesting survey because some of the metrics would change. Easiest to figure out, easiest between tourist sights; things like that. I have no idea.

I like these discussions because they transcend tourism and help to understand other cultures and their values. For me at least, why i travel. MarkK, as you push back, I learn more and that is great.

And in London seniors get 34% off the daily/weekly caps if they have a National Railcard, and register it with TfL (or 34% off the Travelcard).

Other National railcards get 34% off Travelcards.

For a week on cap or Travelcard for central London that is a £14.20 saving each. Add on the saving on travel to or from Heathrow and it is worth a couple getting a 2 Together Railcard just to get the London Transport savings then buying a 7 Day Travelcard (if in London for 5 days or more), whether or not they are doing any National Rail Travel. The savings get better if you go to Windsor, Hampton Court or Greenwich.

Bordeaux, Orléans and Nantes all use tap systems, but as I recall they all require use of specific apps rather than Google or Apple Wallet.

CW that souds like a lot to comprehend.

Even simpler.... if you're just there for (say) 3 days, you can tap away with your credit card. If you hit the daily cap, that's all you'll be charged. TFL does the calculating, the rider doesn't have to figure anything!

What is the daily cap?

The cap varies by the 6 main London zones varies but is £8.50 a day/£42.70 a week in Central London, rising to £15.60/£78 for Zones 1 to 6- includes Heathrow and Hampton Court.

There are Outer Zones 7 to 9 which a Visitor would rarely get to- even Zone 9 is £15.60 a day but £111.30 a week.

The Elizabeth Line into London is £13.30, so the 1-6 cap covers that + one other tube journey.

The beauty of a Travelcard (which is the same price as the weekly caps) is that it runs for any 7 days, and for anywhere outside the Zones (like Windsor or Watford Junction for Harry Potter) you can buy an extension ticket from the Zone 6 boundary (or any other Zone boundary) and stay on the same train as you don't have to tap off.

The day cap if you only use London buses is £5.25 or £24.70 per week (all zones). London Buses will actually take you as far as Watford Junction from various outer Tube stations.

Like I said, a lot to comprehend. I think the Travel Card makes a lot of sense for a mathmatically challenged tourist like me. Thank you. And it sounds like the travelcard is only a little more than the cost in Berlin. That surprises me as I always thought London would be a lot more expensive relative to the rest of the West. Again, thank you..

One of our RS members tells a story (sorry I cant find it right now,
but in general ...) that Vienna would have beat Budapest to it except
that Franz Joey compared an underground to crawling around under the
earth which was beneath Austrians. Apparently his short sightedness
didnt last long.

I like Budapest's M1. Especially that they have restored most stations back to how they appeared when the line was opened. And when the sets are due for replacement they should build the new ones to look like the original stock as well.

Vilnius has no ticket barriers and no machines on their buses and trams. You either pay exact fare to driver, try to find a machine or use an app. The app was the easiest. (The validation machines no longer punch anything. They read a QR code on your ticket.)

Helsinki also has no ticket barriers but there are machines everywhere to buy a ticket or you can download an app. I can attest they have ticket inspectors.

Berlin, as mentioned, has machines and apps. And ticket inspectors....ran into two within two days. (Make sure you validate if buying a single ticket.)

WengenK, we don't want to go back to this. https://www.reddit.com/r/Lost_Architecture/comments/xbce74/the_old_m1_metro_entrances_of_budapest_hungary/

These old Metro entrances look lovely. Why would it be a bad idea to have something like that again?

Cause 50 going up and down at the same time barely works with the open stairs LOL