EU to US: Go away

The opposite is true as well (those countries are currently blocked from entering the US), so where's the surprise? I don't remember exactly, but I don't believe the EU received much of a heads up when the ban initially went into effect either. That just creates bad will from the outset. Now the tables have been turned and we're on the receiving end.

Darn. Aer lingus was having a great deal round trip airfare from Boston to Rome. Guess I'll have to wait till next year sometime. 🧐

I was reading an article in the Washington Post that said tourism contributed 8 percent to climate change, and that number is rising. Maybe we need to rethink how we do international travel in a more selfless way.

This isn't very surprising if one has been paying attention.

Here is why (from the Times article quoted above):

“The benchmark is the E.U. average number of new infections — over the past 14 days — per 100,000 people, which is currently 16 for the bloc. The comparable number for the United States is 107”

Yes — let's say that again.

Average number of new infections per 100,000 people over last 14 days:

EU: 16

USA: 107

Cruise ships may not be the answer. A sail boat that arrived in Portugal from the Caribbean that had been at sea for something like a month/ 6 weeks was denied entry to land even though there was no chance of them having caught something and still be infectious.

If I am inferring correctly, China is not on the list being blocked? That will rile some feathers.

The article states that in the draft lists being put together by the Europeans and seen by NYT reporters, China is on the acceptable list (I.e. the Europeans are leaning towards letting the Chinese in).

Negotiations still be to completed though, so obviously anything can happen before the lists are finalized.

It wouldn't be unfair to say that China has taken a far more aggressive approach to combating Covid than has the United States, Russia, or Brazil-it is safer for the EU to welcome Chinese than Americans.

Don't assume that Americans will not be allowed for months. The EU can always do what Iceland is doing......if you are from outside the EU you can either quarantine for two weeks or take a Covid 19 test on arrival. Yes, it will take a few hours to get the results but it's better than full banning.

On the bright side, the governors of Florida and Texas, who shunned suggesting masks and distancing, are now pushing their citizens to practice both.

Or perhaps we should take up Mr. Trump on his suggestion of less testing to bring the statistics down.

FYI the French consulate is taking applications for a few types of visas now.

But for tourism, it's based on the metrics and the US has failed. Of course the Chinese aren't banned; they clamp down on every cluster whether their numbers tell the whole tale or not.
You can take it personally and feel rejected, but it's just the metrics. It was a tough, strict stay-at-home order in Europe, keeping children inside for 8 weeks in Spain, no trips to home repair, garden and hobby shops. They were really inside, but Europe has dropped and controlled the cases. We wanted bars, beaches and haircuts; we got them and now we pay the price.

Could it be that the EU decisions on reopening boarders to non-essential travel is data driven and not political. The EU appears to b opening boarders to countries with favorable COVID-19 outcomes and effective plans and policies with favorable results. If politics enter the decision making I would suspect that it would be confidence in the national leadership. For example, President Bolsonaro would not inspire confidence to allow football players from Brasil into the EU.

If the list isn't due out for a few days then presumably there is still some more haggling going on amongst the commission/council/member governments (of which leaking these versions is part). The EU will ideally want a list that all members agree - but it would settle for one that they will at least all implement even if reluctantly, because it is embarrassing to the EU that countries are doing there own thing at the moment. Not that I'm suggesting the haggling will move the USA off the naughty step (I'm not sure if any of the EU national leaders that matter will be pushing hard for that since none of them are huge fans of the current US regime), however it would be naive to think the final list will be based purely on health risks and there may be some changes before it's published.

PS even if/when the US health position improves, there is still the tricky political question of reciprocity given America hasn't yet lifted its own ban on most Europeans. Some countries probably don't care, but others definitely do.

Frank II, you beat me to it. We all know that less testing can make this virus go away.
But seriously, we can't even count on some states in our own country to let us in without a quarantine.

Average number of new infections per 100,000 people over last 14 days:

EU: 16

USA: 107

There were fewer positive test yesterday (27,036) than there were two days before (31,930) (maybe because there were 100,000 fewer tests) vs 17,166 on 6/9 (14 days ago), but a regression curve (takes the daily fluctuations out of the equation) through all of the data shows the number of cases (infections) increasing at 850 cases per day (for the whole country, ~330 Mill).

I've been tracking the total infections in 14 western European countries, but not the daily increases, so I can't comment on their rate, but ours has had a significant upturn recently. I wouldn't expect the Europeans to let us in anytime soon.

BTW, I get somewhat different numbers (I don't know exactly what dates were used), but 107 cases per 100k population would be about the total number of cases (~300k) for the 14 day period, not the daily average for each of the 14 days. But I think the significant number is that our cases/day are increasing every day, on average.

I haven't been tracking Europe everyday, the way I have been the US, but I do have total numbers (from Johns Hopkins) for 14 European countries (Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway), about 400 Mill. people, and the US for June 1 and June 17. Over this period, I got 19 new cases per 100k (76,276) in those countries and 99 new cases per 100k (329,055) in the US. Numbers will vary depending on recording time, population estimates, etc, but our numbers are close.

If Lee's data and calculations are correct (US with 99/100k new cases per day) based on CNN "Breaking" news (meaning things are in flux), we are a long way off.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/eu-us-coronavirus-travel/index.html

Sources told CNN the criteria of countries on being considered for the
EU's travel ban list is being based on a maximum per capita infection
rate of 50 people infected per 100,000 residents.

Well, who can blame the EU, really? In our land of liberty, where it's all about individual freedoms, we reap what we sow. Our country has a mishmash of different guidelines and rules depending on what state you're in and what city within that state. It's confusing to us, so it should come as no surprise that it doesn't inspire confidence from other countries. A friend was visiting his mom in Germany in early March and couldn't get back to the States until early May. His flights kept getting cancelled until Germany put the kibosh on travel and so did the US. Finally, in May, he took what he could get: a flight from Germany to DC, then DC to Denver. He said that Germany really had it together: social distancing was enforced, everyone was wearing masks, sanitizing protocols were in place, everyone got a temperature check. In Germany, he held up his passport and the station agent looked at it, didn't grab it from him. As promised, the middle seats on the plane weren't taken. But once he got to DC, all bets were off: there was zero social distancing enforcement, no temperature checks, some people weren't wearing masks, there were crowds everywhere, and the station agent took his passport. His plane was full, including the middle seats (airline said this wouldn't be the case). He said that if he got sick, it would be from when he landed in DC to when he got home in Denver. I don't think his experience was unusual. Different culture, different behavior. Whether here or anywhere else in the world, it stands to reason that as soon as you relax the very protocols that were put in place to prevent virus spread, you'll see....virus spread! Ultimately, every country needs to decide how to balance the economic fallout with the health and safety of it's population. US travelers are too much of a risk for most of Europe at the moment. It's disappointing, but understandable.

Different culture, different behavior. Whether here or anywhere else in the world, it stands to reason that as soon as you relax the very protocols that were put in place to prevent virus spread, you'll see....virus spread! Ultimately, every country needs to decide how to balance the economic fallout with the health and safety of it's population. US travelers are too much of a risk for most of Europe at the moment. It's disappointing, but understandable.

True.

Just think, we have really been dealing with this virus for only 4-5 months. Seems like years!!!!!

That is why I keep telling people that they probably won't be going to Europe this summer or fall. While in smaller numbers, I've never seen the rabid anti-mask politics in Europe. People wore masks, they were prevented from even exercising or going out. The US on the other hand, has not had any nationwide rules and has a large population says restricting travel and mandating masks is restricting their freedom.

I'd be wary too.

David, China has taken a more "aggressive approach." No question about that. We should be thanking China for showing us how to get things done.

Anyway, as grateful as I am for all China has done for us in 2020, we are a sad lot with the mask wearing. Again, rules without enforcement are suggestions. America has always been very individualistic and that has its pros and cons.

Many US states are way below that rate

And exactly zero other countries care about individual US state statistics--so for the purposes of this discussion (who the EU will allow in) those stats are meaningless. Only national stats matter.

"Many US states are way below that rate, and below the rates of Sweden and the U.K."

The 50 figure seems to be magicked from nowhere. Other reports say 16 or 20. More importantly, it's not 50 (or whatever), per 100,000 per day! If it were that high then even the USA would be below the required rate. It's 50 per 100,000 totalled over 14 days. Incidentally, Sweden's daily rate yesterday was 2 per 100,000 and Britain's was 1 per 100,000. At over 10 per 100,000 per day, the US is in a whole different league of disease.

Not necessarily. Countries regularly identify having been in certain parts of countries for disease concerns as part of the immigration process.

As stated in my first post, for the purposes of this discussion you believe that the EU will allow citizens of certain US states to enter before others?

Dana, I don't believe that european countries would allow in residents from certain US states and not others. I am an American living in England and the British press lumps all Americans together, so I highly doubt there would be different travel restrictions for different states.

A ban on Americans by state might be hard to administer since our passports only give our state of birth, not our current residence. Even drivers licenses (which you don't have to take with you) only say in what state you were licensed, sometimes years ago, not where you currently live.

The three US states with the lowest cumulative (since the beginning) infections (Montana, 717; Alaska, 755; and Hawaii, 769) together only have about 1% of the US population, so allowing people from those states to come into Europe wouldn't help many people.

When we banned Chinese, it was only those from Wuhan (city) or Hubei (province), I forget which. How'd that work out? (Of course we didn't ban Americans coming back from anywhere, as if they couldn't have picked it up there.)

Countries regularly identify having been in certain parts of countries for disease concerns as part of the immigration process.

That's unworkable. Do you just look at the passport address? Do you ask where the person lives? Do you look where the person just flew from? Where they've been in the last 2 weeks? No, it will be either yes or no for all US passport holders.

Discriminating based on origin within the US isn't going to happen for several reasons, among which is the simple fact that US passports do not include the bearer's address; they simply show state of birth.

[I see Lee had already made this point and I overlooked the post.]

Many US states are way below that rate, and below the rates of Sweden and the U.K.

You don't have internal closed borders.... it is as simple as that.

When asked where I'm from I always say, "West Virginia." That always seems to go over well as everyone apparently knows the song, "Country Roads." I'm patriotic and fly the flag on holidays and all of that, but without getting too political ... never mind.

And, both the CDC and Covidtracking.com today reported the highest number of new cases in the US since counting began.

COVIDTracking.com is out with it's numbers for today (CDC still hasn't released theirs), and they show over 44,000 new cases for today, 2400 more than yesterday. Don't start packing just yet.

Interesting discussion.
But it's the airlines that are going to be influencing whether you go to Europe or not.
No point dumping Americans into European airports when they can't clear customs and have to turn back. Airlines don't want that kind of bad publicity. Right?

But personally, why would I want to spend 7 hours in an enclosed "infection tube" wearing a mask? Then find, due to some political retribution, I might not be able to return, or be quarantined 14 days before I can move? And then there is the personal responsibility to other human beings thing:

(Heresy alert!) Fodor's site says:

"Most governments continue to advise their citizens to reconsider and cancel nonessential travel to Europe and the rest of the world in an effort to slow the spread of disease and cushion health care systems."

https://www.fodors.com/news/news/coronavirus-outbreak-should-you-cancel-a-trip-to-europe-right-now

When I read my first RS book in the late 80's, it seemed he was teaching about being a good citizen of the world.
I interpret that as staying home until there is a working vaccine.

This is a priceless travel lesson we are all learning. Travel is about more than travel.

Master List of Airline Cancellation Policies
https://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2020/03/26/master-list-of-all-major-international-airline-coronavirus-change-and-cancellation-policies/#19d568443a59

Region/Airline Candellations
https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blog/50105499/covid-19-flight-cancellations-by-region-and-airline/

Yep, re post immediately above.

The graphs are very telling. America has the highest rate of infections right now and without a national plan, who knows when it will die down. Although I'm sad not to go on vacation this year, I wouldn't want to get on a crowded plane for 7 hours, breathing recycled air.

It's just sad to me that it's another sign that the US has lost its standing. But at least I can plan for an Autumn 2021 Germany/Austria trip when things will hopefully be to a new normal.

Now it's official: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/world/europe/eu-reopening-blocks-us-travelers.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I wonder how this is going to impact tours for the rest of the year. While I hope to the contrary, I suspect there won't be anymore tours in 2020.

-- Mike Beebe

What is the status of the UK? Wording does not make it clear, other than the UK is not one of the 27 listed EU members. And then there is that nasty free travel with Ireland, which is EU.

No surprise. Look at this graph:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/europe/european-union-travel-us-graphic-intl/index.html

The official decision of the Council:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/06/30/council-agrees-to-start-lifting-travel-restrictions-for-residents-of-some-third-countries/

Now that the travel ban against American tourists is official (see above post):

I'm curious about what RS and the travel industry, in general, are doing to pressure the powers that be - to be more active in preventing the next occurrence of this international tragedy. Experts tried to warn over a decade ago that a pandemic would happen. And there is surely another one on the way, sometime. We are fortunate that it isn't more deadly than it is! But depending on luck is not good management. Many viruses were found in bats and wet markets and development of preventive measures could have been started many years ago.

What is the travel industry and other industries doing to protect their markets now?

Rick's words:

POSTED ON JULY 1, 2020 BY RICK STEVES

Hooray! Today Europe Re-Opens to Travelers (…Except for Americans)

As of today, the European Union has controlled the coronavirus well
enough to open its doors to travelers from a list of countries that
have been patient and disciplined in responsibly quelling the
outbreak. Nearly all European countries, plus Canada, Japan,
Australia, and even China, have qualified. Sadly, a few countries
lacking in discipline, national leadership, and an embrace of science
are not welcome — including Brazil, Russia, and the USA.

https://blog.ricksteves.com/blog/europe-reopens-to-travelers/

"Sadly, a few countries lacking in discipline, national leadership, and an embrace of science are not welcome"

But it's not "a few countries" is it? It's almost every non-European country in the world (plus quite a few European ones). And even some of those actually on the "safe" list aren't going to be immediately accepted in each EU country at first. The US may be especially disease-ridden, and may take longer to be readmitted, but it is tosh to suggest it is just one of "a few" at this stage.

So does anybody know what, if any, published criteria the US will use to evaluate which countries' citizens will be allowed in to the US? Or will it just be a capricious decision?

Hungary and Italy have said no to the expanded list. Only EU and Schengen countries can enter,

Frank, can you clarify? What I've been able to find has been a little confusing but I thought that Italy wasn't flat-out banning entry from all U.S. arrivals but that they were mandating a 14-day quarantine upon arrival?

Perhaps this is what you are looking for, Stan.

Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the US, updated June 15, 2020. I'm sure there will be more updates in the future.

And Kathy, Jim from Bern posted this official decision link up thread:

Council agrees to start lifting travel restrictions for residents of some third countries. The United States does not meet the criteria.

Edited to add this link to the Frank II posting that documents Italy's even greater country restrictions.

Italy, Hungary say no to folks outside the EU.

Vermont’s test positivity rate is currently 0.4%. Why would I want to go anywhere else?

I’m with Wray: time for all of us to stay put. Enjoy life at home for a while.

Stay healthy everyone, so that you can get back to traveling when we have this under control and tourists are welcome once again. We’ll get there.

1.8 per 100,000 is 0.0018%, not 1.8%.

Actually, I don't think anyone can say when the EU will open back up. I think they are probably waiting to see if cases spike back up. Everyone needs to chill a bit and realize that postponing a vacation for a year is not a hardship. Indeed many here in the US would love to be able to take any vacations.

It's time we think about how traveling affects not only us but fellow travelers on planes and in our destinations. Rick has the right idea IMHO.

To those in the US, have a happy and safe Independence Day.

Thanks, LO, I'm aware of those other threads but wasn't reading that Italy was flat-out refusing entry for citizens not on their OK list or whether they're just not lifting the current restrictions for limited entry (e.g. for work.) "Restricted" doesn't necessarily mean banning ("blocking ALL arrivals") altogether, thus my question.

But this is what I was looking for so question answered!
https://it.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

Perhaps this is what you are looking for, Stan.
Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the US, updated June 15, 2020. I'm sure there will be more updates in the future.

Thanks Lo, but what I was looking for, was whether the US had stated any numerical criteria that were used to determine which countries would be allowed in, such as infection rate, positive test rates, etc. In other words, criteria like the EU is using to determine who they will let in. Otherwise it just appears to be based on nothing but a personal decision. I guess that avoids the tricky situation of recognizing China's low rates. Appears that there isn't a clamor of European tourists wanting to visit the Hot Zone.

Vermont’s test positivity rate is currently 0.4%. Why would I want to go anywhere else?

Come to Maine. Vermont is one of only 5 states whose residents can visit Maine w/o a recent negative test or a 14-day quarantine.