Change in U.S Travel Advisory for parts of Ukraine

Think about what the war does to Ukrainians! And yes I know Ukrainians too…. Of course we all need to be nice but your post (minus your amplification about some interesting points) as it reads sounds terribly tone deaf. Anyhow right or wrong that’s where I see your opening post, albeit your explanations later on down the line make sense.

Insurance is required and can be purchased here.

https://visitukraine.today/

Veteran Traveler, I am in almost daily contact with a friend there. So I know just a bit about what the war is doing to Ukranians. We need to not forget what’s happening, so thank you.

Mr. É, as we know, that insurance is required before entering Ukraine. Keeping it travel related, I mainly wondered what my annual travel insurance would do if I, say, broke a leg while in one of these areas. Under Level 4 Travel Advisories, it would not be useful.

We visited Kiev in 2011 and then Odessa and Sevastopol in 2013.
We also did a tour of Russia in 2011.

The Ukrainians are wonderful people and definitely don't consider themselves Russians.

While there, we were reminded that Stalin intentionally starved to death at least four million Ukrainians in the 1930s.
They have long memories.

It is a beautiful country, but now is not the time to visit.

geovagriffith, and yet, the U.S. has downgraded travel advisories for the western part.

but now is not the time to visit.

True for many, maybe even most people. My perception is that the Ukrainian government is doing nothing to discourage travel and is even doing what they can to encourage it and make it easier. Possibly, positive tourist accounts of the situation in Ukraune is helpful for the war effort, the revenue must be helpful, and the continuation of normal activities is probably psychologically helpful.

But it can still be a dangerous place. News event from this morning:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c206l3qgnx2o.amp

But it can still be a dangerous place. News event from this morning:

Sort of stating the obvious?

Thanks for the heads up TTM. It's not on my list anytime in the near future, but if I understand the point of your thread correctly, it has to do with travel insurance, where we travel & what the alert status is, what would be reimbursed. But then I started to wonder if you're planning a trip to the Ukraine? (Mr. E, you've probably been in the past few years so I won't even ask!)

Sandancisco, you read me right. I was very interested in the change in Travel Advisory because I am very interested in Ukraine. That made me wonder if it would be enough to change the viewpoint of travel insurance. But I am not suggesting anyone should plan a trip right now because of the change. Will I go in the future? Sure. I just don’t know how soon it will be possible.

TTM, you've probably thought of this so I could be pointing out the obvious, but if it were me, I would probably try a dummy booking using one of the upgraded areas and see what happens. Maybe try it with a couple of agencies. I have a feeling it could vary from agency to agency.

This is not judging in any way, and I would never judge TTM, but I wonder if any of the 9 areas mentioned were targeted in yesterday's massive drone and missile attacks against the power infrastructure and smaller cities? Does the travel advisory change frequently as things develop, or does it lag?

Since there were also attacks in northern Moldova, and the Polish Air Force got involved, I wonder if the advisories for either of those countries changed?

And I also wonder if the travel insurance companies go by day by day events or use broader criteria?

Today's news of the US allowing Ukraine to use long range missles against Russia could change things.

If Ukraine uses them, Russia could respons with similar type missles anywhere in Ukraine.

Anyone planning to go needs to check their travel insurance. They also need to check with the US State Department to make sure they can help in times of problems.

Nigel, you know I would never think you are judging. :) Conversation (and thinking) are good things. Yes, I wondered about lag time also (another interesting thought). To be honest, I hadn’t looked at the levels since 2022 and was surprised anything had changed.

Anyone planning to go needs to check their travel insurance. They also need to check with the US State Department to make sure they can help in times of problems.

And absolutely this! FRANK II said it well.

If Ukraine uses them, Russia could respons with similar type missles
anywhere in Ukraine.

They have been sending missles to Lviv since the start of the war. So, what would change? https://static.espreso.tv/uploads/photobank/367000_368000/367328_Karta_obstrili_zahidni_oblasti_listopad_1811_new_960x500_0.webp Same as what they did last winter.

For the insurance. If it is your plan to travel from the US to Ukraine for a visit, then the risk of cancelation is pretty high. I would be surprised if any company is going to insure it. But I have been surprised before.

If it is your plan to visit for a few days while you are in Poland or elsewhere nearby, then the most you have to lose is the cost of the train tickets ... not much really. Easy to find hotels with 24 hour cancelation on Booking.com. Just have a Plan B ready for the time you will have free. Insurance is not the issue and sure not worth loosing sleep over. If you are refering to medical insurance, then look at the policies offered on the Visit Ukraine website. Not sure how your US medical insurance company will treat the situation even if you did get back to the States. They often exclude acts of war. You might want to tell them it was a bad auto accident in Hoboken, NJ instead of a drone in Кривий Ріг.

Veteran Traveler, I see now that you have edited your post to add quite a bit more. Apologies for only addressing your initial post - I didn’t receive notification when you edited.

I posted initially for information’s sake, without trying to get into ethics or emotion. I can kind of see how you could read that as tone deaf - much the same way as I could read yours as judgmental. However I choose to take yours as just being unfamiliar with me and some of my travels and concerns - and it sounds like you are very passionate about what is happening there, which I greatly admire. There’s no right or wrong to opinions and you have every right to have one of whatever sort you want about me.

TexasTravelMom, the thread has in it a good example of the pitfalls of being presumptuous and why the RS forum rules say to be "exceedingly polite".

They have been sending missles to Lviv since the start of the war. So, what would change?

Yes, I know full well that Russia was sending missiles into Ukraine. But...and a big But... the US State Department has lowered the warning level for certain areas of Ukraine, including Lviv, because Russia has not been focusing on these areas.

However, now that Ukraine has gotten the go ahead to launch long range missiles into Russia, Russia might resume sending missiles into the Level 3 areas.

I did not say I was going. I won't be going until the fighting has ceased. IMHO, lowering the threat level to 3 was irresponsible on the US State Department but then I always thought their "threat levels" were useless.

And Mr E, if you are so positive on visiting Ukraine, how come you haven't gone recently or have a trip planned?

Sorry FrankII, not my intent to insult you. The war isn’t well followed in the US and a lot of people have no idea what has been going on. You made it sound like hitting Lviv would be a new or rare thing. The facts disagree. Yes, I worded it a bit hard. My apologies. I admonish others for being rude, I need to be more careful myself.

Yes, I know full well that Russia was sending missiles into Ukraine.
But...and a big But... the US State Department has lowered the warning
level for certain areas of Ukraine, including Lviv, because Russia has
not been focusing on these areas.

The emphasis on "was" above is mine. Because the proper word is not past tense but current tense "IS". Lviv oblast has been attacked by russian drones or missiles every month since the war began including the August, September, October and November leading up to the change in status. So i disagree with your premise. I don’t know why the rating was lowered although I suspect it has something to do with the air defenses around Lviv doing such a good job of stopping the regular and intense attacks. Do keep in mind if one were to go that the russians are targeting civilians so there really isnt a safe place.

However, now that Ukraine has gotten the go ahead to launch long range
missiles into Russia, Russia might resume sending missiles into the
Level 3 areas.

You apper to be repeating a narative that I have heard on the television. It is factually incomrrect as the russians never stopped targeting Lviv and the surrounding areas, and the likelihood of that continuing remains unchanged.

I did not say I was going. I won't be going until the fighting has
ceased. IMHO, lowering the threat level to 3 was irresponsible on the
US State Department but then I always thought their "threat levels"
were useless.

Did I suggest you were going? Sorry, not my intent. I dont think the risk level will change until the aggressor nation understands that this sort of behavior is counterproductive to their propserity in the world; somewhat different than a cessation of fighting.

As for the State Department change, they do say that the Level 3 is attributed in part to the quality of the air defense systems in certain locations. Lviv does have among the best air defense systems in Ukraine so that may be the reason. But in general I would say the State Department has a thankless task. Not to do assessment would get them criticized, overly assessing as dangerous will get them criticized and under assessing the danger will … it’s a no win, but they try and I assume they are doing the best they can.

And Mr E, if you are so positive on visiting Ukraine, how come you
haven't gone recently or have a trip planned?

No where did I encourage anyone to go to Ukraine, I just pointed out the circumstances and the rules. Going anywhere in the world is a personal choice, I neither criticize nor support personal choices that don’t affect me or the world in general. I woild also suggest if someone did go or is planning on going that they not advertise it here. The subject tends to bring out hostility among certain participants. I learned that over a year ago and never returned to the subject. Life is difficult enough without adding to it. But if you wanted to help, I like https://u24.gov.ua/ among others and if you wanted to go, PM me and I will share what I know.

pitfalls of being presumptuous and why the RS forum rules say to be
"exceedingly polite".

Had nothing to do with you FrankII, if that is what bothered you. I disagree with you but nothng at all about your post was bothersome to me.

Hi all,

I've edited the thread to keep a friendlier tone. Let's please stay focused on the original question. If it continues to veer into political discussions, we'll have to close the thread.

Thank you,

Stefanie
Forum Moderator

I looked up the insurance on the Ukraine website. Its pretty cheap and the coverage is pretty broad, but the limit is 30.000 euro so thats a bit limiting. And there is an act of war policy. So its not going to matter how your leg got broken as long as you can get it fixed for 30.000 euro. I suspect that 30.000 euro in Ukraine will get about as much done as 100.000 euro in the West.

As for all the usual and customary policies mentioned on the forum, I guess it isnt inconceivable that they would cover you if you fell out of bed and broke a leg. But I have never seen a policy that covers an act of war, so if there is a policy that will I am sincerely interested in knowing about it. So if anyone runs with this thread and does the research, please post it.

But all that is medical. Trip insurance, naaaaa who would cover that. Again, if someone does do the research and finds something that will reimburse, in a war zone, the train tickets because the train tracks were not usable on the day of the tickets, I would love to know about it.

Obviously, the best time to see Lviv was before all this. Regrettably, I missed all this.

That the Russians are targeting Lviv does not really come as a surprise, as I had expected that to happen eventually, that city to come under attack. In 1914 the Russians did likewise as the city known as Lemberg then was a Russian operational objective.

Fred, "Eventually" happened in March of 2022 and has continued fairly consistently ever since. https://abcnews.go.com/International/lviv-ukraine-hit-missiles-1st-time-russian-invasion/story?id=83526019

In keeping with the subject of the post, unless one does the research to understand what has and what continues to go on I dont see how one could make an informed decision on travel and the likelhood of needing medical insurance due to injury that might be denied due to an act of war clause.

The risk of getting hurt by missile or drone, or falling debris if the missile or drone is intercepted by air defense, is real. But I see that risk compounded due to a lack of medical insurance that will cover it. The Ukraine insurance will cover an individual in Ukraine to 30.000 euro, but then what? If one gets back to the US and requires additional will a US medical policy cover injuries sustained in an act of war?

Visiting Lviv or Kyiv is pretty inexpenive right now. The train from the Hungarian border is about $25 and 4 star hotels are under $45 a night and you can hire a guide/translator for maybe $100 a day, but the medical bills could be hundreds of thousands of dollars without a policy that covers it. One would have to live with the consequences of one's decision. No way I woudl suggest someone do such a thing.

News Update:

The US Embassy in Kyiv is closed today (Nov. 20) due to their getting information about a possible air strike.

https://www.rferl.org/amp/kyiv-us-embassy-closes-air-strike/33208924.html?espv=1

FrankII, yes, demonstrates the point pretty well. Nothing new in the news. If you have to rely on medical insurance then this along with 30 to 40 other significant airstrikes against Kyiv in the last 1000 days of war pretty much defines that its probalby not wise to visit right now, nor has it been for the last 1000 days or so.

Seems worse if you are there because the sirens go off and you run for the shelter shortly after the missile / drone launch but before anyone knows the destination so a lot of false calls. Sometimes close to every night.

Fred, you regret not going sooner. I understand. The same insurance issues might come up in the near future for a few other locations, so you might want to think about going sooner rather than later. I think the endangered list would include Moldova, Kosovo, Georgia Bosnia & Herzegovina and quite possibly the Baltics.

No need for further discussion on whether or not visiting Kyiv is wise. To be clear, it is still a U.S. Travel Advisory Level 4 Do Not Go and has nightly missile warnings, not just intermittently. The regions changed to Level 3 are in the west.

Another fact (not opinion) is that many people are currently going in and out of Ukraine for various reasons, including tourism. You only have to talk to locals or pop over to TripAdvisor to see that. Many of us just don’t know that. Truthfully, I figure that is another reason for the Advisory change - but that is pure speculation.

And while I am not headed there (I have 4 months nowhere near Europe planned for the first half of 2025), I think you would get many Ukranians Kyiv and west supporting visitors (certainly the ones I talk to). There would probably also be some saying don’t bother us.

I posted initially as a point of interest only. Probably most people here support Ukraine in this war (Maybe newer people who weren’t reading here in 2022 aren’t aware of that) and in my viewpoint, it’s silly for people who agree on that major issue to argue with each other on lesser things.

Feeling Spanked ....................

Just reprimanded….. :) :)

And while I am not headed there (I have 4 months nowhere near Europe
planned for the first half of 2025), I think you would get many
Ukrainians Kyiv and west supporting visitors (certainly the ones I talk
to). There would probably also be some saying don’t bother us.

According to "Visit Ukraine" (link is above)

"According to the official statistics provided by the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine at the request of Visit Ukraine, 1,188,466 foreigners entered Ukraine between January 1 and July 1, 2024. It is worth noting that almost 2.5 million foreign citizens visited the country in 2023. The vast majority, namely 1,142,036 people (96.09%), visited Ukraine for private purposes."
But apparently less than 22.000 of those were from the U.S.

And TTM, we both know that several RS folks have made the trip. I know one RS guy that just booked a guide and a hotel for Christmas in Kyiv. All have decided it is best not to confess it on the forum. That says something about the forum.

If i were to go to Ukraine I would have one regret. To pay for the trip I would have to use some of the money that I have been sending to the troops. At a time when $50 can save a life, every time I do something for myself I feel guilty.

Texas Travel Mom .... more good news. Starting 15 December, there will be a direct train from Budapest to Kyiv. 19 hours of "luxury" travel starting at about 75 euro. I have no idea how the train will deal with the change in track gauge.

Probably have gauge changing at the border as they have on the train from Bucharest to Moldova and used to have on the Paris to Madrid sleeper.

The train cars are jacked up, the old bogies removed and the new ones placed underneath then the train cars lowered back down.

See here- https://www.seat61.com/Moldova.htm

and there is at least one recent You Tube video showing the process.

Thank you sir.

And since it has gotten a tad easier to visit, a few might consider it despeite the medical issues. Then, in Kyiv, let me recommend this guide: https://yourkievguide.com/ This is rare for me as I never recommend anyone that I havent used myself. But I met her a couple of times when she was coming through Budapest, she seems very competent and I have talked to a few that have used her all with good reviews.

The two in Kyiv that I know, one is in Poland and one has gone off the radar all together. My Odesa guide is also "out of country" and my Lviv guide has also gone off the radar. I also know a guide that will escort you cross cournty if that interest you. About $100 a day plus expenses.

I know that Medjet Assist is popular with many people on this board.

I read their policy today and they don't cover you in any country the U.S. State Deparment has deemed a Level 3 or 4.

I also have an annual Allianz Health/Travel policy. No mention of any State Department levels in my policy but there are mentions of terrorism and acts of war. (Confusing coverage.)

I am pretty certain if you get hurt in Ukraine, you are on your own.

Although, ig one wanted to go, 7 January, orthodox Christmas would be an excellent time.

Surprisingly, Allianz's app helps people find hospitals. For Ukraine they show a few and the ones that will direct bill.

I'm planning a trip next fall to a country that is currently Level 3 (not Ukraine) but I'm hoping will be downgraded by then.

Thanks, Frank II. Both of those policies are what I have as well - but I hadn’t read them. Mainly because I assumed the same as Mr. É. With no planes yet allowed in Ukraine, I can’t imagine MedJet would be of any use there, whether for a heart attack or drone attack. Your information about the Allianz policy is interesting information, though, and not what I expected. Maybe I will read mine, too.

I am not always good about checking fine print - but sitting in the DFW airport a month ago with an Australian and a Finn discussing whether a dog sled ride was considered an “extreme sport” and thus not covered. They both said it is. I will be dog sled riding sooner than I will be going to Ukraine.

Edit: interesting - I just took another look and Egypt is Level 3, but there sure are a lot of people going there.

In 2023 Ukraine’s Parliament passed a law moving the celebration of Christmas officially to December 25, to distance itself from the russian orthodox church. These 2 articles may help explain why it was done and about the different calendars.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/29/europe/ukraine-christmas-date-change-intl/index.html

https://eeparchy.com/2024/02/29/the-calendar-change-whats-going-on-in-ukraineand-in-canada/

In the diaspora, up until this law was passed in 2023, some Ukrainian churches celebrated on the 25th and some on the 7th. But now almost all have changed to the 25th. My church made the change and last year for the first time in my life I celebrated Christmas on December 25.

Frank II, thanks. Like TTM, your information about the Allianz policy was not what I expected. Mine is an expat policy so I will read it carefully. Now I have to find it. LOL

TTM, yes, can not imagine MedJet, but maybe they put you on a train? I guess worth asking the question.

Khrystia, I had read that. But they told me to expect to spend the 7th in Church, so …………. (some people are stubborn, and I suspect they are not the only ones in town like that)

Mr.E..

I have Medjet Assist's total evacution policy and not just medical evacuation. That means that if I need to get out of the country due to a breakout of war, terrorism, natural disaster or medical emergency, they will get me out of the country.

However, If I knowingly go to a Level 3 or 4 country beforehand, I am not covered.

Surprisingly, Allianz's app helps people find hospitals. For Ukraine
they show a few and the ones that will direct bill. - FrankII

Frank II. I checked my Alianz expat policy. Thank you, I would not have done it without you suggesting. I need to read some more and see if they excluded any countries or circumstances.

For my policy, what they list in Kyiv are "clinics" they do say "hospital" on the list and maybe by local definition they are. But they seem to be similar to where I go in Budapest (also on the list) which is a lot more than a US "clinic" and a lot less than a US "hospital". They show a large number of doctors in most every speciality imaginable. They are most likely (if like here in Budapest), contract doctors that come on call or show up on certain days of the week (and probably work at a half dozen other similar clinics around town). They can take care of less than immediate life threatening situations in their speciality. If you break a leg, maybe if its a simple fracture, sure. If you have most generall illnesses, sure. If you are fairly well beat up in a traffic accident, nope.

Anything those clinics can do for you is going to be inexpensive by US standards. I imagine it would be hard to spend $500. But still nice not to have to pay it out of pocket. The expensive stuff, if Alianz covers it, will be out of your pocket with reimbursment.

So if very ill or hurt you will be in a public hospital, which have been targets. The hospital will also probably be full to capacity.

As I stated a couple of times previously, I am not going to Ukraine.

The country I am planning to go to has some regional fighting but the rest of the country is business as usual. The health care system is some of the best in the world and the hospitals are far from full.

Numerous airline flights arrive and depart daily.

Frank II you are on a Ukraine topic thread and commenting on insurance and healthcare facilities in Ukraine; so naturally people (or at least me) will attempt to correct what they believe to be a false impressions left by your comment, "Surprisingly, Allianz's app helps people find hospitals. For Ukraine they show a few and the ones that will direct bill." The false impression being they are NOT hospitals with services in the sense that an American would expect. The consequences of a decision to go to Ukraine are too grave to be doing it on faulty pereceptions of reality.