PART 2.

DAY ONE: At 07:20 the transfer service (van) from Budapest to the train station in Mukachevo arrived. It is a service that makes the trip most every day. Beautiful, large 9 passenger van. Driver speaks no English and suspect only one of the 8 passengers does. The price is very reasonable. We picked up the last passenger at 08:00 and the ride, including border crossing was estimated to be under 6 hours.

The van made a number of stops dropping passengers, only 2 of us ended up in Mukachevo, but I got to see a lot of Uzhhorod and Mukachevo on the way. I will be back in warm weather for more of Uzhhorod. I met up with my aquantiance at a pizza place near the station in Mukachevo about 3pm Ukrainian time.

My aquaintance? When I planned this I didn’t feel this would be a good time to be traveling without knowledge of the language. If some situations were to come up they don’t need an American running in circles trying to find someone who speaks English to tell him where to go and what to do. So I called upon an acquaintance who is a native Ukrainian speaker and who commutes between Kyiv and Odesa every week, to take the overnight train with me. To be honest, now with the direct train available and not having to do van transfers to remote train stations, it really isn’t necessary, Even on this trip it wasnt nexessary. Very simple trip and enough that understood English to get me over the humps, but I promised him the trip to Kyiv so I kept the original plan.

In Mukachevo we had lunch and a walk around town then we settled in at the station to wait for the train. Mukachevo like every place I ended up visiting was business as usual. Stores were well stocked and people were shopping and on the streets. Unlike some news reports Ukraine is dealing with the disruption of the war and to a very substantial degree, life goes on.

The train was scheduled to depart Mukachevo at 20:17, and left on time. https://paliparan.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/kiev-mukachevo-train-55.jpg

Sleeping on this train was a bit like trying to sleep on a water bed in an earthquake. I got maybe 4 hours in the 11 hour trip.

Train was clean, beds comfortable, service polite, tea 25 cents. At the end of the journey everyone strips their beds and carries the linens to the dirty hamper down the hall …nice. Civilized people.

PART 3.

DAY TWO: We arrived in Kyiv at 07:09 as scheduled. https://youtu.be/WD2EBruf6VQ?si=YDhkzKkcOK2HFr8i

Friends picked me up, then home with them for breakfast. Despite the war they had just moved to a new flat in the suburbs. Shiny modern new building with a park and a pool. They bought an apartment shell space then spent the last couple of years designing and building the interior. It’s beautiful.

Then i checked into the hotel. I don’t like imposing on the homes of others, so I secured an upgraded lower floor courtyard facing room, near the basement stairs, in a very nice 4-star hotel. I have stayed in the same hotel four times over the years, but better now as they just finished a renovation. Staff was great, room way too large and located as i had requested.

Hotel is in A good location for tourism as it is close to:
Independence Square, also called Maidan (square), and the site of the EuroMaidan protests in winter of 2013/2014 (do watch this: https://youtu.be/yzNxLzFfR5w?si=EE-5u3amHyZJ12Ge ). And a video of the location taken not too many months ago https://youtu.be/fMRQig_uKDE?si=wdZMMBJfdRjXtAO9 it's learning of Maidan through that documentary linked above that got me here the first time in 2016. This is i think my 5th visit since plus as many trips to Odesa and one trip to Lviv.

It’s also a short walk to St. Michael's Golden-Domed Monastery (12th through 18th century) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/80-391-9007_Kyiv_St.Michael%27s_Golden-Domed_Monastery_RB_18_%28cropped%29.jpg

And to the St. Saint Sophia Cathedral (12th through 17th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sophia_Cathedral,_Kyiv

For those of you that love to visit every great church in Europe while traveling, these two, and many others in the city and in Eastern Europe will open a whole new world for you. Use your mouse and spin around and look up and down: https://www.360cities.net/image/inteior-of-st-michaels-golden-domed-monastery-kiev-ukraine

There are also several nice restaurants in the area as well. Two of my favorites: https://tresfrancais.choiceqr.com/ and https://maps.app.goo.gl/7FLcmtz44N2sSaGr5 a little further away, but one of my favorite restaurant in any city: https://citronelle.com.ua/ I am insisting on dinner there before I leave.

Today I hung out around Maidan and visited the memorials and did a little shopping in the mall under the square.

Tonight a good dinner at a Georgian restaurant courtsey of a local aquaintance that knows i like Georgian food (no, not fried chicken and waffles), then early to bed as tomorrow will start early with Christmas church services with friends.

PART 4.

A Separate Topic: Communist Architecture. Most think of the block housing, often called Khrushchevkas, that scars Eastern Europe. But before that there was Stalin Classic, or Stalinist Architecture (lots of name for it actually). It's a very unfamiliar twist on the sort of architecture you see in a lot of pre-WWII Europe. Sort of overly ornsmented often covered in bass relief tiles but with the arches and towers and classical form you find in places like Budapest. I think it's ugly as sin, but some of the best is in Kyiv. A good study distraction. The block housing came after Stalins death. This details one of my favorite streets: https://www.e3s-conferences.org/articles/e3sconf/pdf/2018/08/e3sconf_hrc2018_01039.pdf

DAY THREE Puttie must have decided to give his staff Christmas Eve off as no air raids in Kyiv last night. Let's see if I get as lucky tonight.

Christmas service was at a small rural church. Formerly russian orthodox, now Ukranian Orthodox. Hard to change 900 years of tradition so even though the new state holiday is 25 December, they celebrated today. Small but full, the service lasted 2 hours .... standing. Interesting was the post communion water and bread for everyone. Most touching was watching the children get communion first. If you haven't been to an orthodox service, it's a good experience.

Then home made Christmas dinner with the family. Grandpa raises gooses so the goose was fresh. He made the chicken Kyiv and the hooch too. Mom made sausage, an interesting sour cream based chopped meat salad and a jellied meat "thing". Both good. Heavy on meat because no meat in the diet the month before Christmas. Oh and mashed potatoes ... (what would the world do without C. Colombus?). Between the hooch and several bottles of wine, spirits were high before dinner was over.

Finally a walking tour of their community ... new and modern .... and Uber back to the hotel.

Back in the city center, life as I remember it from 4 years ago with the exception of no outdoor lighting on the monuments. Warmed up to 6C today. Nice.

Tomorrow a tour of a few exhibits detailing the war.

PART 5.

PERSPECTIVE

I read my trip report so far and while the intent was to be positive, I don't want to mislead either. This is no walk in the park.

Kyiv has has had air raid alerts more nights than not. Air defense is good but not perfect. But also, many attacks coming from Russia, no matter their planned destination come close enough to Kyiv to set off the system. Incoming attacks can be tracked early, but the tracking can not determine their final destination so Kyiv has quite a few alerts that don't result in actual rockets or drones over or into Kyiv. I have followed it almost daily since the start and can not recall a hotel ever being a target, maybe the russians are afraid of killing the wrong person. Most of the targets have been apartment blocks, hospitals and schools.

The air raid app gives plenty of notice and shelters are everywhere. In my hotel, the basement. Just follow fast walking people. But surprisingly few go to a shelter, a lot just find interior rooms.

So far I have had to duck and cover 4 times (Edited LOL) about 30 min each and almost (Edited) always between midnight and 5am. So not a lot of sleep.

There is also a curfew at midnight.

Because it's a Level 4, your medical insurance may be no good. If the injury is the result of an act of war, your medical insurance may be no good, even your life insurance may be no good. When you get home you still my be denied coverage for care resulting from the injury as it may be an excluded pre-existing condition. Ukraine requires you to have insurance, and there is a source for a valid policy, but it has a limit of 30.000 euros and only in the country.

The border, Poland, I think is 11 hours by train if you can get a ticket. Hungary is also about 11 hours to the border by train, again, if you can get a ticket. Budapest is 19 hours. There are also private transfers, but you have to know the details, and that almost takes a local.

I suspect hospitals are full, and they continue to be targets.

On the other hand, there is no overt military presence on the city streets, so things appear normal.

In short, for most of us, Kyiv is no place for tourism. But. Lviv was a Level 3 the last time I checked and travel times are half or less, so that is still a viable choice for some.

Good luck, Mr E. Thanks for the report. I will be watching the videos. Started the train station one. You can see that the majority of the people are women, presumably because the men are all in the war in some fashion or other. Eerie. Life in wartime. Seems a contrast to the bombed out shells we see and the front line trench warfare we see. Life goes on. One wonders, how so?
This almost shocking serenity puts forth the possibility that some may even think that that war is not even a war. Unlike Gaza. Therefore being at risk of bringing the actual war to some sort of premature close to the detriment of the Ukrainian people.
I applaud the Ukrainians their ability to persevere through all this.
Looking forward to your coming reports on your journey.

People are as sweet and kind as they have always been. You can buy imported goods at pre war prices, bars and restaurants are open. Traffic can be as bad as ever. Sidewalks are quite full. Quite a few tourists given the circumstances. But the locals and tourists do live with a phone app that tells them when to duck and cover and the nearest shelter. Then when to come back out and continue life.

There have always been more women on the streets than men. A quick count today was 40/60. Now more women in government positions too. And do remember that the young, up to about 27 i believe are not being drafted. Long range planning says to protect that segment if you want a society after the war. Yea, they really are looking at the big picture and long haul.

I fell in love with the quality of the people here in 2016 and keep returning. Aesop said you are judged by the company you keep. So I am hoping it works for me.

Have you registered your presence in country with the American Embassy? You should; you never know how quickly things can go sideways.

Sorry, you said Embassy .... no. Just State Dept.

Sounds like a very interesting trip!

Its not a holidy or a vacation. There is a family here, with two children that to me are only second to my own family. We have been discussing and planning this for 18 months. I came in today to go to Christmas services with them tomorrow. Then I am on the train out. Also gives me a chance to see another aquaintance before I leave. Both long over due. And I guess, to be honest, what I saw, learned and experienced on my first visit 9 years ago got under my skin and it always feels good when I am back.

Hello Mr E

When I fist saw Kyiv as a title, I assumed it to be spam because I did not realize that we were even allowed to visit Kyiv or for that matter, anyone would want to,

I have looked at some of your pictures and life looks so normal. The food looks great. The cathedral is magnificent. And people are walking around .... like it is just another day.

I read a posting of someone's trip to Russia somewhere so I guess it is allowed to visit Russia if someone wants to. That poster also said something about it seeming normal.

For the longest time, we believed that my maternal grandparents were from Russia and that might be true when they came over but as it has turned out, they are from either Kyiv or Odesa Ukraine. Of course, it was Russia when they were born and raised.

Have a continuing safe and wonderful trip.

bostonphil7, are you okay? Your post got cut short ... but you fixed it. I've never been to Kiev. Hope the situation never exists when I could visit Kiev or Odessa for that matter. Except maybe Odessa, Texas.

The only place i know of where the US government restricted visiting was/is Cuba ( I don't know the status now).

I am messing with you, and maybe someone will explain how.

Mr É has been to Kyiv (Київ) and Odesa (Одеса)

Thanks, Mr. E. Sounds like a fulfilling trip.

We always say that understanding the local culture is important. https://youtu.be/WlGdw7AW-tU?si=BEBk2KS8SpTprss8 explains it well. This is a very big deal here.

I corrected my misspellings of Kyiv and Odesa.

Finding out about these things is the purpose of travel, or at least being in better touch with the world. The other biggie is "The Ukraine" it's how you and i grew up calling it. Another no-no. It's just Ukraine for similar reasons to the spelling of the names.

Since you changed it, for the others, you wrote Kiev, not Kyiv. No biggie, it's all about discovery.

Mukachevo in the snow is lovely! (Better than no snow…. ha!)

I am so glad you finally made it! Soak it all in.

The road in Mukachevo ate my knee. Still limping. I spent a few hours walking the town. Pretty nice in places. Found a shopping mall with most of the international name brands and a farmers market with some local stuff that grows in winter but also all the imports in good quantities. Sort of doesn't reflect some of what you hear on the news on the quality of life right now. To be honest nothing looks worse than Romania. Very resilient people. I couldn't do it.

More updates above

The video on spelling is interesting as is your whole report. I found out recently that my grandfather who I always thought emigrated from Poland was actually from Ukraine. My cousin visited the town before all the conflict broke out. My grandmother is from Romania. Both were German though. Someday would like to visit where they came from but not now.

Thanks for this very interesting trip report and discussion. I especially appreciate the spelling video. I presumptuously used to think I knew the correct spelling because I went there (in the 1970s) and remember it -- not registering that what I correctly remember is the Russified Soviet spelling of the time. I also remember going swimming in the Dnipro river at a local beach right in town -- I assume you will not be doing that in January.

Have been to that beach, maybe, in the past. At the end of a long pedestrian bridge on an island?

BethFL, your family may have been from both. The border with Poland has been fluid. Lviv for instance has been in both countries, and i think the Austro-Hungarian Empire. That's why Lviv is mostly Catholic. Before the current invasion by russia Poland and Ukraine had less than great relations because of the border wars. I think the last was between WWI and WWII. Putin's invasion brought the countries together.

Your German-Romanian family makes sense too. The last ruling monarchy was literally imported from Germany in the 19th century. Prior to tge 13th century the Hungarians recruited Germans to settle the borderlands in that part of Romania that was part of Hungary. The purpose was for defense and to this day there still exists many towns and fortifications of German origin. Unfortunately many of the ethnic Germans were killed or deported by the Russians after WWII.

History in Europe is a mess. If you want to know more about Poland and Ukraine watch Snyder's history series I linked to above. You will also learn russia grew out of the 12th century principality called something like Moskovy (i dont remember the exact) when they started expanding they wanted a new name for status so they checked their history and in the 18th century decided on a name that related to their origins. Their origins, which were a substantial empire founded in the 9th century called Kyvian Rus that ruled much of modern-day Ukraine from Kyiv. Moscow was an outpost of that empire. Yes, Kyiv is the russian motherland. It's more complicated than this. Watch the Snyder series.

That train station in Mukachevo looks so much like the one in Chernivtsi and the one in Peremysl. I suspect they were all built around the same time.

If you do make it back to Uzhhorod, there’s an excellent skansen there, the Museum of Folk Architecture and Rural Life, if you’re interested in that kind of thing.

BethFL, it all depends on where exactly and when your grandfather was born. As Mr. É mentioned, the borders in that part of the world have gone through many changes. Also regime changes. My parents in the first thirty years of their lives lived under four different regimes : Austro-Hungarian, Polish, Soviet and German. And each time they were issued new documents - I have them all, as they brought all their papers with them to Canada in 1948.

The Ukrainian genealogy group I belong to just had a presentation about German immigration to Western Ukraine in the 18th & 19th centuries. If you’re interested I can provide the link.

I second Mr. É’s recommendation of Timothy Snyder’s lecture series - he really explains the complicated history in an understandable way. Also, any of his books on that region.

khrystia

You like the train stations. The one at Mukachevo isn't nearly as nices as the one in Chernivtsi, but here are somr nice ones:

https://visitukraine.today/blog/824/the-most-beautiful-railway-stations-of-ukraine?srsltid=AfmBOopz02j09pt8Q24Goc1IPdUcJJCXAHOKaRw14E6NHjE5PTE-zSqY

Updates above in 5

Part 6.

DAY FOUR I spent the day playing tourist. A museum and walking some neighborhoods I hadn’t seen before. Reminded me of Budapest. I will add a few pictures to the link above. But I don’t mess much with photos when I travel.

Started a bit late and finished a bit early as the night before the air alerts were very active and I got little sleep.

DAY FIVE Last night no air alerts so a good night’s sleep.

Uber to train station at 9am for a 10am direct train to Budapest. Arrives 6am tomorrow.

Train Station had airport style security. We left out of the beautiful classic old part of the station.

Passport checked before boarding. Age checked on board as Ukrainian men of certain ages are not permitted to leave without a pass.

In a 4 berth compartment and the train is full. 2 of my compartment buddies speak English, which is nice. They are trying to be helpful and we are discussing life and work. War is rarely discussed here. They have to live it so I guess they have little desire to be reminded.

My roommates brought me coffee, candy and offered to help me make the bed. Every time I turn around, someone in this country is trying to help me. I’ve got a bottom berth which is good because you have to br into acrobatics to get into the upper. But the bottom ones are sort of common property when anyone wants to sit before lights-out.

Same age, more ot less, as the train to Kyiv. Nothing bad or great about it. It does the job.

Took about 6.5 hours to reach Lviv, then a pretty long stop to pick up passengers. Not sure how we spend 14 hours going the rest of the way as Lviv is almost half way. I remember on the way up that the tracks to the border were a bit bouncy so maybe we go at half the speed. Then there is border crossing time and I have heard the wheels need some sort of modification for the Western tracks.

For the train nerds: https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/10/30/eus-railway-project-breaking-ukraines-ties-with-russian-gauge-legacy/

DAY SIX We Stopped in Chop for several hours to change wheels and check documents. Toilets on board were closed during the change. As much work as swapping wheels is, i cant imagine that this is profitable. The combo van + train that I used on the way to Kyiv is probably a better solution than the direct train because of the wheels issue.

Used the time for Ukrainian passport control. They took all the passports and returned the an hour later.

We stopped again across the border in Hungary for their passport control. This time a couple of guards went to each compartment and looked at the passports, put then numbers in am mobile device then stamped the passports.

Train arrived in Budapest about 15 minutes early.

M2 + M1 metro and I was home.

Glad you are on the long way back after a good trip.

Part 7.

Random ramblings

Of all my travels, in any part of the world, I have not encountered such consistent kindness and caring for a stranger. This has been the norm on each of my trips since 2016. I have also been to the country that is currently on the door step of Ukraine, and while my trip was probably too short to fairly compare, I can say that in that one short trip the experience I had leads me to believe they have little in common with Ukrainians.

Famous Forum Questions:

• Do I carry my passport or just a copy and leave the original on the room? Answer: Seriously? You gotta ask?
• Do I need cash? Answer: Sometimes, but not terribly often. MOST vendors will take tap and pay.
• ESIM? Answer: My US TMobile worked flawlessly. Paid $35 for the 10 day additional high-speed. This entire report written and posted from my phone.
• Do they speak English? Answer: Not many.
• Is it safe? Answer: I can’t answer that. Everyone will define it differently. My impression is that the violent crime rate is very low. Pick pockets are not a problem apparently. I feel as comfortable on the street as I do in Budapest. But that’s personal perception and may not be fact.
• What are the luggage restrictions? Answer: I dont know if there is any written limitations. But the comartments are small and anything much larger than a carry-on is going to have to share the bed with you.

Thanks for posting your trip. I found it very interesting. I hope that this war ends very soon, in Ukraine’s favor. Once life gets back to normal, whatever that may look like, I hope to see Ukraine for myself. In the early days of the pandemic I did a virtual Airbnb experience and was surprised at what I saw.

ESIM? Answer: My US TMobile worked flawlessly.

Last year in Lviv, my Airalo data only eSIM worked perfectly. Having that enabled me to make/receive WhatsApp calls. I suspect Kyiv would be the same.

When I can get enough data to upload photos, do WhatsApp video calls each night, respond to RS forum questions AND keep my personal phone number for $35 from TMobile, hard for me to want to mess with anything else. The number of establishments with wifi was almost consistent with the West which adds to making this possible. But the point was, that these solutions work in Ukriane as well as in the West.

Andrea, when its safe to travel, your visit could contibute to the country getting back to normal.

Mr E

I watched the video that you posted about the spelling and pronunciation of Kyiv and Odesa.. Very informative, interesting and helpful.

But when I first posted a response to your trip report using how I had seen Kyiv and Odesa. posted in the past, you "messed" with me. (your words)

Because of my advancing age, I actually became alarmed thinking that I had made a spelling mistake due to memory.

But no, the video explained how Kyiv and Odesa should be spelled not how it has been spelled.

Glad that it was not due to my memory .....

So few Americans understand any of this because the world just isnt a topic in the US. So you cant think bad of anyone that doesnt pick up on the big issues, much less the little things like spelling. So for me to say anything at all about it was playful "messing with you" and not critisism.

I explored the possibility of this trip on the forum about a year ago and the thread went south pretty fast. So nice to see that the trip report might have had some positive interest on the forum.

If anyone wants to know more there are two good sources.

https://visitukraine.today/
and
https://u24.gov.ua/
and I know a few good Kyiv/Lviv tour guides.

And I am glad to be home in Budapest. Maybe in the late Spring or early summer I go to Odesa. If nothing changes that would be Wizz Air to Chișinău for a few days of tourism, then a BlaBla car to Odesa; about a 3.5-hour drive plus border crossing time. But just south of Odesa on the coast is this wonderful Black Sea bay that reaches inland almost to Moldova. Along the shores are medieval fortresses, some interesting churches and resorts. The barrier islands that protect the bay from the Black Sea appear to have nice beaches and some nice resorts.

hard for me to want to mess with anything else.

Absolutely. I was just adding a note that different solutions also work, just like the rest of Europe (that I have been to).

TTM, on that you are absolutely correct. There is nothing "foreign" in visiting Ukraine. In all my trips over all the years things there have worked like they worked elsewhere in Europe. Language is a bit of a barrier but at worse it reminds me of most of Euroe 30 years ago. Now at least we have Google Translate.

Sometimes this forum tries to make things sound harder than they are. Anyone could navigat their way around Ukraine and 95% of the means and methods used in France will work in Ukraine. Nothing special.

Mr E, I have really enjoyed your trip report. Thanks

It was an interesting trip. I learned quite a bit.

Some takeaways and suggestions if anyone wanted to try this:

Why Would I?
Well, it’s not really the best time for conventional tourism. Maybe Lviv yes, if it remains at Level 3. So maybe it’s for a better understanding of the war and the people who would resist against all odds. In that aspect it’s a cultural journey.

One of the first things you will discover is that life outside the occupation zone is not the same as life inside the occupation zone. The US news forgets to make this distinction. I think they do that intentionally to sell a narrative.

Should I?
I think in the big picture of life going to and staying in Kyiv is relatively safe. The threat is in what if something does happen. Because the odds are low that you can find medical insurance that will cover the situation (the Ukraine sold policy caps at 30.000 euro), if anything did happen you could be financially wiped out. Your life insurance is probably not going to cover an act of war either. So, from a financial perspective, more than a safety perspective, it is a high risk journey. The exception, once again, might be Lviv if it remains a Level 3.

The mechanics of it?
Interesting thing is that the railroad tracks in previously Russian occupied Europe are wider than those in the West. So a train can not go from Kyiv or Moscow to Western Europe without having to stop and change the wheels. That change adds hours on to the trip. My recommendation, having done it both ways, it to find a transfer service across the Ukraine border then board a train. Much faster.

Cost?
A four star hotel in the right part of town in Kyiv might set you back 60 euro a night. All of your other expenses are going to be substantially lower than any place else in Europe. So it is affordable. So much so that you can hire a full time guide, and for a first time trip I would not do it any other way. Especially now.

Thank you for posting. I always learn from others' trip reports, and yours is loaded with excellent information, both practical and historical/cultural.

My younger daughter has a Ukrainian friend at college who was home in Kyiv for Christmas. He sent videos of tanks rolling through the streets on Christmas, no doubt in response to Russian attacks on "infrastructure" that day. Watching the videos was a sobering moment for us. He texted the next day, saying he was glad to be on his way back to school. What an incredible, jarring contrast, going back and forth between a postcard-perfect small New England college town and a war zone.

I hope that all of your "second family" and my daughter's friend's family remain safe.

Very surprising that there woud be tanks in Kyiv for any reason. The attacks are all air attacks and not much use for tanks in that occurance. I suspect the videos were from outside the city. Or maybe just moving things to the front. In my week there I not once saw a military vehicle and I moved around Kyiv and the suburbs of Kyiv quite a bit.

You have much better odds of seeing a new McDonald's grand opening than a military vehicle in Kyiv. They opened 20 new restaurants in Ukraine since the start of the war and the revenue of McDonald's in Ukraine for the first half of 2024 is 44% more than in the first half of 2023.

But we stopped at KFC for coffee and a snack before getting on my train back to Budapest.

It has been pointed out that Lviv and most of the west of Ukraine is at Level 3 per the State Department. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/change-in-u-s-travel-advisoriy-for-parts-of-ukraine

I am tempted to make a return trip. This time car or van from Chișinău, Moldova to Lviv. I am thinking Wizz Air Budapest to Chișinău. Two nights in Moldova (maybe 3), then a van/car north to Chernivtsi (about 5 hours drive time) for at least one, maybe two nights, before driving straight thru to Lviv stopping for lunch at Ivano F. (maybe 5 hours drive time). Then a solid 3 days in Lviv before the direct, non-stop, night train to Budapest (about 13 hours). 100% of the trip in what is currently Level 3 zones; except Modova which is Level 2.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/yDPa6CZAeBX5PRd5A

I must say I admire your temerity. You have guts undertaking a trip to the Ukraine under the present circumstances, the risks, etc. My linguistic inferiority precludes such a trip unless I had someone with me totally able to converse, eg, my high school ex-students, in Russian or Ukrainian.

I recommend a book on this geographic topic and more if you believe it's worth your while to pursue such esoteric reading. It's written by a professor at Columbia at the time in 2007, the US historian, Mark Von Hagen, "War in a European Borderland" focusing on the Ukraine and Galicia in WW1 politically-diplomatically, (you refer to Lviv, then known as the province capital of Galicia, Lemberg, which is the western part of the Ukraine today.

Fred, I traveled to Kyiv with a native speaker. Came back in a sleeper cabin with 2 passengers who to my great pleasure spoke English as well as Ukrainian. In Kyiv I had plenty of help. Lviv won't be much different. And I have been to both many times so I have some level of comfort.

Thanks for the reading assignment. Appreciated.

@ Mr E....Am glad it worked out for you that a native speaker knowing all the cultural cues and the like accompanied you. I see this (whatever this includes reference-wise) as not only knowing a language down-pat, ie grammar, expressions, idioms, diction, slang, book language (You can see I am a language/grammar stickler) but also the cultural cues, that's essential to obtaining more than a superficial understanding. With a native speaker you will be able to engage in conversations on politics, culture, history in depth.

You're welcome on the book suggestion. I would suggest cross-checking Professor Hagen's bibliography for further reading. In a way "Europe is a mess" is so tragically valid. As stated, you got guts.

RE: " like Europe 30 years ago " (your reference and quote, Mr E).... quite right, an accurate description. In 1997 a French friend of mine here had a relative , a teenager , go to Romania as part of a French girls' sport team, her parents went too. In 1997 I saw their photos when visiting in France. This family said that life in rural Romania seemed to be 30 years behind that of France in 1997. A couple of years ago I brought this up here in a conversation (one of many) with this Romanian guy, he confirmed that assessment.

Bottom line: Your assessment of 30 years is sociologically accurate.