Answers as long and complicated as a PhD thesis. Why?

Frank, there's a grain of truth in your post, but I don't agree in the end. A huge number of simple questions betray misunderstandings about that simple-sounding topic. It's not wrong to give a complex answer when the poster has no idea how complex their question actually is. And when they leave out important information (month and year, number of persons, budget, air tickets ... ), a short answer could be a disservice. Travel is not "easy".

I agree that some posters are intimidated, but that reflects an ignorance about the internet. It's not a completely correct comparison, but Wikipedia warns you not to edit an entry unless you are "prepared to be ruthlessly edited yourself."

You didn't raise the issue, but on this newsboard, I have found that most people who "read between the lines" turn out to have been completely correct. It is not an offense to respond to non-posted data if you have the experience and healthy affect ... ... to understand where the poster is coming from.

(It's the smallest part of the problem, but I hope you will agree that 1% or 2% of the posts here may be from trolls. But it is a violation of board policies to suggest that poster is a troll. Trying to tease that information out is difficult. Sometimes I'm wrong, and they respond to request for more information, which trolls do not do.)

Some answers cannot be succinct.
I am going to Europe. How much will it cost? We want to go to every major city all over. We have 12 days. How do we get there?

If I can't answer the question as posed, I don't answer it.

With all due respect, I don't think an OP cares how brilliantly you negotiated the public transportation systems of any given country in Europe when they're asking for tour guide recommendations.

You're right Frank II, and I'm as guilty as anybody. But the way I look at it is, how would I reply to the OP if it was a friend who walked up and asked the question in person. Sometimes, a straight librarian-type factual answer is not being helpful enough. Especially if opinions are being solicited.

Along these lines, I generally do not do research for a poster. I’m glad to share the sources I’d look to, but I’m not going to look up and transpose a train schedule—let alone a 10 day itinerary.

I have heard from newbies via PM asking follow up questions because they're post has become a argumentative, convoluted mess and they are afraid to return.

That's a little silly. The arguments on here are more tame and civil than pretty much everywhere else on the internet.

If they are afraid of checking a forum post, how are they going to navigate a foreign country?

Personally I’d love it if newbies would use the Search engine on the site as many of their collective have been asked and answered over the years.

Frankly I ignore newbies who think the Helpline is like Facebook and who seem unable to make time to do their own research.

I was going to answer the question in your post succinctly, but then after reading through the long post I discovered there wasn’t one :)

Tim--if a person asks a question but leaves out information, rather than answer the question, ask for more informatiion. They may not realize they need to give it.

Treemoss2--obviously, those kinds of questions should first get response questions asking for more information. Personally, I don't answer those because it shows the OP has done no work at all and I'm not a travel agent. I'm more likely to suggest travel research sites or books.

Estimated Prophet--agree 100%

Stan--if a person asked you the question in peson, you'd probably ask questions of your own before answering to make sure you can give your best answer.

Scudder--I agree. Point the OP in the right direction and let them learn for themselves. Once they have the basics, they can come back for help with specifics. That's how they learn.

Ewardius--it may be silly, but it happens. Not everyone coming here lives on the internet.

Claudia--I agree

Carol--I tried to write succinctly but remembered it wasn't an answer to a question and I wanted to get my point across. I did edit it a couple of times. I also thought it prudent to remove all references to Machiavelli and Nietzsche.

Yep, I can be verbose. It's my style, and I believe we need complete sentences, as well as explanations, to educate. I also use personal anecdotes either as examples of success or failure, and that no one is perfect at travel planning 100% of the time. Going off topic from the original question, occasionally happens, but I also identify as such....and why.

I agree with Claudia. People should start by doing their own research before asking questions or expecting someone else to plan their itinerary. An RS guidebook is a very good place to start as well as a Forum search.

Well, tbh, it would be easier to search the forum if the forum itself was updated to some technology from this century.

They don't need to know every routing, every time, every cost. Start
them out with simple information. Let them come back with follow up
questions.

Why don't they? I'd rather have too much information. I like to think I'm bright enough to wade through the info provided to make my own conclusions. A good example is how to get to Sorrento from Naples. For the uninitiated, that's an adventure needing a paragraph more than a sentence. Two paragraphs if the question is Naples to Positano.

An economy of words is a blessing. I say this as a veteran of so many meetings where people seem to like to hear themselves talk.

"Don't bore us, get to the chorus" as a musician would say.

I get a bit more amused by the answers from people who have done no personal research or have personal experience on the subject and are just repeating often incorrect “conventional wisdom”. Unfortunately repeating the same incorrect or incomplete information time after time after time does little to make it correct. If I don’t know it as a fact and I still want to get into the conversation, I take the time to do some research. Been researching travel for years and maybe it easier for me than for a newbee.

Then there are the instances where personal bias seem to outweigh the needs of the question. Q: “I will be in Spain for 5 days October and have 3 more days before I have to return to the US and am looking for a second destination.” A: “I love Sweden in October”.

Then there are stock warnings. I will be in Spain for 80 days and need some ideas of what to do, generally brings beware of Schengen with two paragraphs of explanation that turns int 36 posts on Schengen. Why? I assume those people know nothing about Spain but want to post an answer anyway, and that's the back door.

“Use the search engine and don’t bother us with the same question again” Why? Things don’t change, new ideas don’t come up? New people with new experiences don’t join the forum, old forum members haven’t made new experiences? You don’t add to the world carbon footprint by asking again. But looking at old posts is a fair source for more information.

Finally, there are the “never happened to me, so won’t happen to you answers”. Usually involves breaking contracts or laws. My favorite was the absolute guarantee that an airline will never weigh your carryon luggage. The much larger competitor to the RS forum is full of contradictory experiences.

I would like to think that when someone comes to the forum with a question that they will receive somewhat professional advice.

One last beef. For some reason the concern for carbon footprints outweighs the concern for the current worldwide Plain M&M shortage. Never will understand that.

Oh and I am guilty of everything above …. I only recognize my guilt LOL; but my biggest crime stems from the fact that I only know anything about one place in the world so I tend to ramble on in hopes that it will in someway provide unexpected information that will add to the enjoyment of the OP’s trip. But I know I should be a lot more brief and keep the fact that I know of a store in Budapest that has a secret stock of Plain M&Ms to myself.

Did I illustrate your point well?

I love this discussion. I have only a Master's degree so occasionally write a thesis, not a dissertation, but since my education was in Psychology it is APA style (American Psychological Assn.) which tends to be straight forward, not literary.

Keen observations Mister E :)

My nickel's worth: this is a forum/discussion board, not short answer AI. With the exception of very occasional radical thread drift, it operates about how forums do, should, and essentially are meant to. Questions seem to always be answered, and are also springboards to extended discussion, which IMO is great.

The OP gets an answer.

OP and others reading through might get their eyes opened to ancillary factors that could be important/helpful.

Board regulars get a place to hone expertise and have ideas challenged.

Win, Win, Win.

If some small minority of of novice posters are bothered by how threads are not brief direct facts but rather blossom into conversations, maybe that's the price of a "free" answer instead of looking it up themselves or paying a travel agent. Maybe a bit of free play in a thread is how regulars are "paid" for the service they provide. This is not the military or business after all; our replies are not briefing for a general or CEO.

All that said I enjoy reading the various styles of responses, for sure including Big Mike's peanut gallery pith :)

probably preaching to the choir here.

now speaking of choirs, can I tell you everything I know about trombones and how they are used in Brahms' Symphony number One.........

Nick can you elaborate on that? I have an 8000 word ramble on irony chambered, but please you first ;)

One thing that I prefer in reading comments is paragraphs, not 35 lines of continuous reading.

Live and let live, some people actually enjoy writing or reading lengthy answers.

One thing that I prefer in reading comments is paragraphs, not 35
lines of continuous reading.

"Chunking" is important when you are writing online. Longer paragraphs work on paper, but not user friendly on websites.

nobody cares about the trombones?

Nigel, I do - tell me more!

In terms of the initial issue the OP raised, I do not care how people respond as long as the tone is friendly.

I see nothing wrong in providing additional comments / info even if the question was not specifically covering those aspects. For instance, if someone asks "how to get from Mürren to Zürich airport", adding "buy your tickets on SBB" to the answer to the actual question feels useful. If not to the OP, then to other people who will use the search function and end up on the thread.
And even if there is a bit of off-topic drifts, as long as it's not pages long (and it rarely is!), it helps create a sense of community vs. just a Q&A.

OP wants succinct? I'll give you succinct: tldr.

This forum is not a travel agency staffed by professionals. It is made up of individuals who give freely of their experience and knowledge, such as it is. They respond each in their own way. You are free to read the response, or not. (And i can guarantee that if I see a post thats 20 lines long without a paragraph break, I wont be reading it) You want the facts, just the facts, ma'am? Ask ChatGPT.

Well, I’m aware that seventy six trombones led the big parade and remember the oeuvre of George Chisholm, but after that…..

But don't forget about the 110 cornets!

I agree with trying to keep answers snort sweet and to the point. My problem with some posters is that they don't read the question. Ex: I am going to see the West of Ireland and I do not have a drivers license and have never driven. How can I get tnere? Answer: the best way to see the area is by car. You can rent one in Galway. It happens not infrequently. Also when a question has been asked and perfectly answered some people have the need to add the same information. Lastly if you have not been there or perhaps not recently and say so how can that help.

There are parts for three trombones in Brahms Symphony #1 in C Minor. However, there are no cornets.

This is understandable because Brahms wrote his first symphony in the mid 1800's while the cornet was invented in the early 1900's. There are two trumpets in the symphony which is a similar instrument to the cornet so we could count those instead.

If we took the ratio of 2 to 3 (trumpets to trombones), then the Music Man should have been 76 trombones and 51 cornets which is nowhere near the 110 they mention.

Since the Music Man was supposed to take place in 1912, it might be understandable that there were many cornets as it was new, popular instrument.

This is what the trombones sound like in Brahms' symphony:

https://youtu.be/swQijhj1KcY

It's amazing what you can find on Google. When I usually answer questions on this board, I use my own experience and will, occassionally, confirm my answer online. If I don't know the answer, I leave it to others.

Some may remember a guy on here years ago who answered all questions by either looking it up on Google or taking someone else's answer and making it sound like he was an expert. He was eventually booted off the board.

..."Double bell euphoniums and big bassoons,
Each bassoon having its big, fat say"...
guess our Rick Steves Forum Band has a few 'bassoons'....
I like bassoons,

WHAT?...THERE IS AN M&M SHORTAGE?

I don't think it matters whether the responses are long or short. The reader will decide their tolerance. I know I sometimes skim a long post or response to pick out any pertinent specifics or an actual question.

OP's-Get straight to the question. Don't need to know if your in-laws are traveling with you or how long its been since you or they have been to Europe. Give us Joe Friday info. Just the facts Ma'am.

Responders-Don't give an opinion unless asked. Answer the question directly and if it is a opinion request, let her rip.

Now about this M&M shortage...

I am not sure I see a problem. I am bothered by the curt responses suggesting with a critical tone that the question is not worthy of serious discussion, that the answer is readily available with a quick online search, or that the question cannot possibly be addressed without providing much additional information. Again, the tone is important. There is a difference between replying that I could be more helpful if I knew A and replying how could you think that anyone could possibly answer your question without your providing A and B.

I am not bothered by responses, however lengthy, that are sincere and that try in some way to respond to the original poster's concern or an issue that arises in the replies given.

For me, the forums ideally should be conversations among friends, or at least awfully nice and interesting people, with like interests. Yes, there are some rules. But if the conversation is a friendly one, I do not find burdensome the occasional digression and long reply. And you can always move on.

As someone who is not a first time poster, but has experienced (a may have even given) a wordy response, I appreciate any feedback from those in the Forum. In general, everything is given with good intention.

Before I post, I do a search and many times that answers my questions. However, there are some cases in which a post is too old (pre-COVID) and getting new and fresh perspectives are necessary.

While sometimes things digress on the forum, in general this forum has amazing people who are polite and respectful. I truly appreciate all perspectives, even those that are a bit lengthy.

Not edited for brevity :)

It is entertaining to learn that people take their participation in an open forum so seriously that they not only outline their expectations for other random guests, but that they also detail both the questions and responses they deem as acceptable. That's simply amazing and only topped by the supportive chorus of others who actually agree.
If I post here, it is because I believe that I can offer a contrasting view or add value based upon my personal experiences. Take it or leave it. Read between the lines. Whatever you chose but first and foremost recognize that anything posted here by anyone is a data point subject only to the forum rules and nothing more.

Some answers cannot be succinct.
I am going to Europe. (a)How much will it cost? We want to go to every major city all over. (b) We have 12 days. How do we get there?

(a) more than you think
(b) private jet

Succinct enough?

What M&M shortage? I have 3 pallets in my garage.

I agree that some seemingly 'simple questions' are deceptive. e.g.,'what is the value of pi ?'

Blame my few sentences on my college professors. Most wanted the information in very few words.

'what is the value of pi ?'

It is all in the crust. No crust, no pi. The crust provides support, unlike, say, cake or a tart, although some there too. Then there's the top crust or lattice. I find that 22/7 is a reasonable crust/filling ratio.

Odd, i had a prof. that gave 50% of the grade based on “thunk value”. How loud it was when dropped in the desk. IE the thicker it was the higher that half the grade was. That was the semester i discovered the joys of really thick paper.

I see this more and more lately- people ask a simple question and instead of receiving a simple answer, people nitpick an itinerary, question reasons for choice of transportation, length of stay, etc. It can come across as condescending and assumes that the OP has done no research.

Now, we’ve all seen those posts: “I’m going to Europe for the first time. Where should I go?” Obviously that’s an impossible question to answer without more info.

I posted a simple question on a different forum: “how far in advance should we arrive to get a spot on a specific auto train on a Monday in June.” Hoping to hear 15 minutes, 30 minutes, etc to help gauge what time to leave the hotel.

Obviously I had chosen to travel by car, had an itinerary planned, and a route mapped out. My reasons for those choices were not anyone’s business and I did not ask for help making those decisions. But that’s quickly where respondents went. Totally not helpful. I feel that if you don’t have useful answers, don’t waste the OP’s time.

The OP of this recent thread here clear took Frank II's advice to heart 😂

Someone complained to me that my recent Trip Report "is too long, make it shorter." I kept my response brief, "I don't want to."

I also love when a post evolves, perhaps it strays off course in multiple directions. This is a conversation board and that's what conversations do.i like to think I've made some friends on this Forum; usually because conversations expand and go in different directions. Maybe I'll be lucky one day to meet some of you in person, all because we shared thoughts and expanded on topics.

All's, I thought your recent trip report was well- written and provides great functional info for folks going to that area. Don't stop!

And Allan, remember that I responded that I would happily have read much more !!

Also mostly concerned by Mister E's mention of a plain M&Ms shortage.. And want to become friends with the person above who says they have three pallets stacked in their garage !

Ok, guys, I am pretty sure I just saw plain M&M’s in a tiny place in Corfu. I guess I should have bought them out….

Reasons I write a dissertation:
1) I talk too much and use too many words;
2) I love to talk about travel;
3) I think I am trying to be clear (which takes too many words).

But Frank II has a point - sometimes we (as a community of very interesting and very different personalities) get a bit off topic or are so eager to share we say an awful lot and sometimes don’t speak to the actual question. Whether or not this is a problem is up for grabs. LOL. When I first started reading the forum, I read every post and every comment for the country I was planning for. I learned so much that you would never have guessed was there from random comments on a different question. I did that for several years before ever posting myself and it is still one reason I read All Topics.

If wishes were fishes….. I would say I wish we included somewhere (even on our profile) when our experience was. If I went somewhere 10 years ago, my answer may not be very valid and it might help an OP to have that information.

Allan, hopefully the person who said your trip report was too long didn’t read my recent one! I would be in trouble for sure!

guess our Rick Steves Forum Band has a few 'bassoons'....
I like bassoons,

Well ,a confession is in order - I'm a bassoonist and made my living playing professionally ( mostly in Broadway Theater Orchestras ) for forty years , One comment about the Trombones in The Brahms is worth a mention - If you watch the clip Frank posted above , you will see three trombones playing what is known as a : Chorale " What is not visible is a fourth voice also playing below those of the Trombones . It is written for the Contrabassoon . In all of Brahms' Symphonies ( 1 , 3 , and 4 ) it is that instrument that provides the lowest voice in the wind section , The only Symphony that employs a Tuba for that purpose is Brahms' Second Symphony , Two short clips - The Bassoon -https://youtu.be/pX9A5bib1FQ and The Contrabassoon - https://youtu.be/mIRkHv6kPHw Sorry for going off topic ;-)

If necessary, get Peanut M&M’s and chip the peanut out. The result might melt in your hands and your mouth, but it’s still M&M.

Trombone - use the spit valve occasionally.

Everyone is different. Say a lot in few words some some little in a lot of words and some’s words say one thing but they way they use them says something much much different.

To each their own, I do my, you do you and let’s all try and get along. But sadly some on any given forum want the forum to be exactly how they want it and get a bit persnickety if others don’t play by the rules that they want. Forgetting that other than the owner of the forum setting the rules for thier forum the rest of us are just doing what we want within those rules.

The part I don’t get is.. if you don’t like a topic or the way a person responds because of lenth or whatever then why not just skip that topic or post? Not saying to ignore a response if you disagree or think the response is wrong, but if you don’t like the length or the wording or whatever.. just skip it?
I made a post about how we just need to give others the benefit of the doubt but I see a lot of folks that seam to respond to topics and posts that they “don’t like”. I got a response to a topic I started about number of countries and states that basically said that the poster didn’t like the topic considered it dumb and wasn’t going to respond to the topic.
I just don’t get that. If you think I talk too much.. so what? Dont read my posts. I give you permission to skip them. 😁. Or any topic you are not interested feel free in skipping that as well.

As has been pointed out, we are all doing this for free. So you get what you pay for. And we all have different personalities so some of us simply think that longer responses are useful. Some think anything more than 2 words is a waste of time….
Myself i dont get why this is a concern for anyone. I suggest if you don’t like a post.. ignore it.

That being said there are a number of posts were the poster is not responding to the subject. Not even to the subject that the topic has evolved into. For example “how do I get to Versailles without using the metro system as I want to avoid the walk from the station?} gets a reply of. “Take the Metro. And Walk” On the other hand. A response of “you really can’t avoid the metro and the walk” is fin as it points out that the original request is not being ignored.

Anyway I guess the TLDR is…. Just ignore posts you don’t like and skip posts tha are to long or whatever and just try to get along

So......we went from writing succinctly to trombones, bassoons, Brahms and M & M's.

Ya gotta love the Rick Steves Travel Forum!!! :)

bassoon is good.

First and third trombone good too.

Just be careful of Second Trombones, particularly in Japan. "I knew as soon as I heard you play".....

Back on topic…

Answers as long and complicated as a PhD thesis. Why?

Why? Aren’t we getting paid by the word?

Arguably, every person who replies to any post has some extra time on their hands. There are worse things one could do. It’s nice to have some free time.

There is a saying: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."

Rick Steves, whose name adorns this forum, says he is a teacher and want to teach people how to travel in Europe.

When someone asks a question, and a extremely detailed answer is given rather than a basic answer and a link where to find more information, are we really helping that person learn or just making them rely more on the forum?

Or is it ego with some people just trying to prove something?

I don't post often but would like to say that I mostly agree with Frank...with the caveat that even though some posters go off topic or perhaps way beyond the question, the responses are most often interesting and entertaining. It does seem that those with a wealth of travel experience sometimes use a question as a way to segue into their travel resume. If I have the time, I read and enjoy. If not, I move on.

It's the occasional downright rude or mean responses that upset me. Those are uncalled for.

What continues to surprise me is how much time folks spend journalizing their trips to come up with the extended answers with things like right down to the lockset types on hotel room doors.

...are we really helping that person learn or just making them rely more on the forum?

Definitely we are making new or newer OP's rely on the forum. Why should someone learn to plan and research online when they can come here and very generous people will do it for them? This then spreads to their family and friends and more and more people come with general open-ended questions. We are all enablers to some extent.

Responders have to decide whether to engage or not. Pick those OP posts that interest you or you think you can help.

You can't change OP or responders behavior, but you can pick and choose your participation.

Now, go fish! LOL

I just thought I’d add that Vaughan Williams wrote a concerto for the tuba and John Linnell of They Might Be Giants has used the bass clarinet in a rock/pop setting, not an instrument you generally hear outside classical music. Oh yes, don’t tell me I’m not down with the kids!

There is a saying: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."

precisely

Lots of folks here have a pretty good impression of themselves and want to share EVERYTHING with “newbies”. It’s mind boggling to see folks with thousands and tens of thousands of posts rattle on about everything. Travel is a subjective adventure and it seems increasingly that those inquiring and those responding want finely refined objective answers to everything. Best train fare, best airline, best town, most scenic , quaintest anything, best “experience” of everything, meet the locals like it’s a ride in Pirates of the Caribbean. The list goes on endlessly

Enquiring or responding…..maybe it will evolve in a good direction…..who knows what that’ll be???

There is a saying: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a
man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."

More likely he gets arrested for not having the proper license and fishing out of season.

And nowadays, equipped with extremely expensive rods and reels, isn’t fishing almost totally catch and release? Virtually nobody’s eating what they catch! Big boats are now catching fish for eating, but you need to teach a man to operate a boat first.

Maybe it’s time for a new saying: You can lead a horse to water, but then suggest many other beverage options, even if it’s not thirsty!

You can lead a horse to water, but then suggest many other beverage options, even if it’s not thirsty!

Thats great , I love it !!

I just can't resist:
I played a bass clarinet in junior high school, sadly not a rock/pop setting.

I can safely say that I have never come across a discussion thread that features travel dissertations, trombones, bassoons and a shortage of plain M&Ms. And I too am primarily concerned about the M&M situation...

There’s a 60 Minutes episode coming up in a couple Sundays, and they’ll be reporting that there is no shortage of M&M’s, either plain or other varieties… at least in the USA. Any suggestion to the contrary is just a plot by M&M Mars to increase prices, which will be thoroughly investigated and explained.

But is it possible to get M&M’s everywhere in Europe? Short answer, please. Thank you.

Euro chocy normally wins the day, but ...

M&M's > Smarties

A chink in Big-Euro-Chocolate's armor where the USA can get a foot in the door?

M&M's are certainly sweet . Not so , the cutthroat relationship between Milton Hershey , and Frank and Forrest Mars . More like Battery Acid ;-

Cyn: yes.

Cyn: Yes. But plain, not peanut or any of the new un American fru-fru varieties, are still hard to find.

There is a certain virtue with an economy of words and keeping things pithy. Anyone been in meetings where someone is bloviating us into sleep?

Fish? I just buy fish as I have for a lifetime.

Sam321, there was probably a point way back at the beginning; but I think that long ago disappeared and as far as I can tell, it’s not about anyone (or anything 🤣).

Sam321, there were no names named, so no one in particular was being pointed out. Some threads have had responses that arguably didn’t answer the original question, and then some of us use more words than others might in order to reply. The software for this Forum limits the size of a response (I’m at 10% of the maximum length right now, according to the notation at the bottom of the Reply box), but there are no official rules to limit how long a posting can be. If the Original Poster is impatient with an answer, they can ignore a post - so can anyone else who’s not the OP. There are worse things in the world.

Back to M&M’s for a moment: how come there aren’t Organic M&M’s? Or Gluten Free? Or some other varieties that other foods and snacks now offer? Maybe there’s an opportunity there?

OK, 21% of max now. I’m done.

This posting reminds me.of Whisper down the lane. The game is started with the first person being told something , anything such as Johnny got a new ball. That person repeats it to the next person and so on. By the time the sentence gets to the last person, it is usually very different. we started with a thought about lengthy posting and look where we are now and , we have new poster so confused. !!! No wonder he is confused.

I'm in Columbia now and have seen M&Ms everywhere. So don't be afraid to travel far afield. Your M&M fix is available in South America too, even in small towns

What's the fascination with M&M's, give me Smarties over them any day of the week.

Allan, at the risk of this being a too-long response, are you referring to the Smarties that are a tiny, concave wafer with a chalky and somewhat tart flavor (invented by an Englishman who moved to New Jersey) that come rolled up in a cellophane wrapper, or something Nestle appears to make, oblong candy-coated chocolate pieces? If the latter, they must not be available under the same name everywhere, or there’d be some legal action to come.

Smarties are UK based and are like miniature M&Ms but without the melt in the mouth feature and with plain colours and less taste. The colours run in contact with moisture or ice cream.

I haven't seen the blue crunchy M&Ms for a couple of years now. Or the almond ones in the light beige bag.

Too much M&Ms knowledge here?

Smarties are UK based and are like miniature M&Ms but without the melt
in the mouth feature and with plain colours and less taste. The
colours run in contact with moisture or ice cream.

Wow that's about the opposite of a description that I'd give for the taste of Smarties, and I always thought they were Canadian based. Maybe the UK invented it and the Canadians perfected it. They're wonderfully addictive and much sweeter and tastier than M&Ms. https://www.madewithnestle.ca/smarties#:~:text=All%20SMARTIES%20from%20our%20chocolate,part%20of%20Nestl%C3%A9%20Cocoa%20Plan.

Too much M&Ms knowledge here?

Nigel, certainly not. You’re clearly an M&M Smarty!

And Allan, there are certainly Commonwealth Smarties, far different than the U.S. Smarties that were frequently deposited in Trick or Treat bags at Halloween, along with other inexpensive candy that was not as sumptuous as other options. They’re not cloyingly sweet, but I don’t think that any dentists or nutritionists will suggest that the Smarties in the U.S. are healthy, low-sugar treats, or by any means a decadent occasional splurge that’s worth an indulgence. Here, you more tolerate Smarties than savor them! https://www.smarties.com/

Then again, Wikipedia says the U.S. kind are manufactured in both the New Jersey and in Ontario! But the Canadian products are called Rockets, as Nestle holds the Canadian trademark for the name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarties_(tablet_candy)#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20Smarties,Jersey%2C%20and%20Newmarket%2C%20Ontario.you

Peanut M&M’s and popcorn.

Munching on them now watching the “ breaking “ evening news.

I’ll say no more.

Claudia, I hope I’m not indicted for saying this, because an indictment would be the top story, but…
you’re having Candy Corn!

And why can't one get a root beer in Europe?

There are actually cornet parts already in 1840, especially in French music.

What drives me crazy are people posting place names with the wrong spelling. In the google age, spelling is everything and may be the difference between finding a train link or not, or sleeping in a good hotel instead of a bad one. If you are spending a lot of money in traveling to a place, at least spend 30 seconds to understand how it is spelled.

Cause French isn't phonetic. :) How do they maintain a language whereby 1/2 of the letters are not even pronounced. How does one even post a short travel log using French names..

And I have all the red, recall M&Ms. I've been saving them, till the market was right. This seems like the time off load them...

10,000 Lira per M&M.. :)

Just don’t forget to pull out all the brown M&Ms if Van Halen is coming to play.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2012/02/14/146880432/the-truth-about-van-halen-and-those-brown-m-ms

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/

Just don’t forget to pull out all the brown M&Ms if Van Halen is coming to play.

If you see Eddie Van Halen, snap a picture, it will be worth a great deal of money.

To answer the original question. I dunno!

Hi Rebecca , Actually Cocaine had been removed from the original recipe as early as 1903 . The kick was coming from the caffeine in the recipe .

Doctors, up till the '70's use to give out free cough syrup with camphorated opium.

I find that many new OPs leave out so much important information, needed to answer a
question, that people that reply need to use a shoot gun approach and cover every contingency the OP left out. Replies tend to be long and thoughtful, as a method to elicit more information. This is common to all sites like this. Plus as a travel site, one WANTS to point out something the OP may have never thought about, as a suggestion.

This site is incredibly generous with the size given to any contributor to post. I love all the really long ones that integrate personal experiences with practical information. And somewhere there is a gem of info, that's not in any travel guides. Right now this is as important as ever, because travel has essentially been reset after the lock downs. Some places - Restaurants/Lodgings survived and some did not. It will be a herculean effort for RS to rebuild his library of travel guides. In the mean time, we have to fill-in the pieces with what is still relevant and what is not. And add info as to what is new. :)

M&M coating is made from shellac. Yes, the same shellac used in furniture finishing. Shellac is a natural substance made from the excretions of an insect farmed in South Asia. I know this because the coating was developed by PhD (🙂) chemists at a lab here in Kansas City, so it's a (very minor) source of local pride.

And I remember that cough syrup from my childhood that was very addictive!!

From the mid 1940s until the early 1950s, an over the counter "supplicant" named Hadacol was sold in the southern U.S., and was advertised on radio soap operas. Don't remember the percentage of alcohol it contained, but there sure were a lot of happy housewives.

M&M coating is made from shellac. Yes, the same shellac used in furniture finishing.

It joins a long list of multiple use products -

Because it creates a glossy finish, carnauba wax is used in automobile waxes, shoe polishes, dental floss, food products (such as sweets), polishes for musical instruments, and floor and furniture waxes and polishes, especially when mixed with beeswax and turpentine.

Shellac is coating M&M’s! It also used to coat some chocolate covered mints. Here’s more from the Internet:

Is it the same thing as the finish on wood? Indeed, it is the same substance. The revelation that furniture varnish can appear in food would probably send scientifically primitive bloggers into a tizzy. This varnish, or shellac, is the resinous exudate produced by the female Indian "lac" bug, an insect that spends its whole life attached to a tree, sucking its sap and converting it into the familiar sticky substance that has long been used to provide a glossy protective coating on wood. It takes about 100,000 insects to produce a pound of red-tinged resin. The colour can be extracted and used as a dye. To make clear shellac, the resin is bleached with hypochlorite.

… So, bug secretions. Yum! Chocolate-covered ants must pale in comparison. And gummy worms are obviously just a lame substitute.

Oh, and by the way, part of the reason that responses from Americans may seem so long is because we’re still using Imperial measurements. Replies from folks who are attuned to the Metric system, seem shorter, even if they use the same number of words/paragraphs. If a Metric person is assessing a non-Metric posting, and is a critical person, it’s no wonder they might see it as too long or complicated.

Back to the M&M thing for a moment … the candies are each stamped with a single white “m,” so why aren’t they called just “M’s?”

Cyn , I took a guess at the answer and was half correct , but here is the full correct answer

1940–70s: Beginnings

Milk Chocolate M&M's were introduced in 1941.
Forrest Mars Sr., son of the Mars Company founder, Frank C. Mars, copied the idea for the candy in the 1930s during the Spanish Civil War when he saw soldiers eating British-made Smarties, chocolate pellets with a colored shell of what confectioners call hard panning (essentially hardened sugar syrup) surrounding the outside, preventing the sweets (candies) from melting. Mars received a patent for his own process on March 3, 1941.[7] Production began in 1941 in a factory located at 285 Badger Avenue in Clinton Hill, Newark, New Jersey. When the company was founded it was M&M Limited.[8] The two 'M's represent the names of Forrest E. Mars Sr., the founder of Newark Company, and Bruce Murrie, son of Hershey Chocolate's president William F. R. Murrie, who had a 20 percent share in the product.[9] The arrangement allowed the candies to be made with Hershey chocolate, as Hershey had control of the rationed chocolate at the time.[7]

Back to the M&M thing for a moment … the candies are each stamped with a single white “m,” so why aren’t they called just “M’s?”

That's true unless you have more than one in your hand. Then they are M&M&M&M&M&M's LOL

“If necessary, get Peanut M&M’s and chip the peanut out.”

I love your humor Cyn.

I scroll past most threads, and many posts, because of my list of pet peeves,
Some, though, are a pleasure to read, like this one.

Claudia has my favorite writing style of all. It’s brilliant. Especially her travel reports.

I find the Search function super easy to use.

Allan, i’ve met and am friends in real life with lots of people here… you just have to start a RS meet up group… very fun.

I grew up on Smarties… M&Ms are wayyyy better.

You fine examples of humanity make me long for my younger days when I could eat anything without consequence. On Halloween we knew who had the good stuff and who had crap, like freakin' apples or something. Candy apples are fine, but nothing healthy, please.

Back in my marathon-running days I recall eating a bag of Doritos with a tub of french onion dip, fried chicken, and a few strong German beers. Those were the days, my friends. Oh, and Kit-Kats are the best followed by cream-filled anything.

Now I'm eating kale burgers with blueberries for dessert. #boring

edit: Cyn, thank you for a dose of reason and common sense. You are the Thomas Paine of these boards.

I'd like to think that people go to Google or or similar before coming here and are looking to glean from our experiences and opinions, not just get a short and sweet answer.

Waiting for someone to comment about why topics go off on unusual tangents, like M&Ms. 🤣

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spam it is but it put this thread over 100, got the Ton, made a Century!!

I wonder if anybody has - surely somebody has - counted how many M&Ms there are in different types and bag sizes?

And why, for goodness sakes, has M&Ms never made a Christmas large tub of lucky dip types, styles and colours??? If Ritter Sport can do it why can't M&Ms?

Nigel...I have counted...

A regular size bag has plenty; a shared bag has a plethora; a party size bag has a sh**load.

Shellac is coating M&M’s! It also used to coat some chocolate covered mints. Here’s more from the Internet:
Is it the same thing as the finish on wood? Indeed, it is the same substance. The revelation that furniture varnish >can appear in food would probably send scientifically primitive bloggers into a tizzy. This varnish, or shellac, is >the resinous exudate produced by the female Indian "lac" bug, an insect that spends its whole life attached to a >tree, sucking its sap and converting it into the familiar sticky substance that has long been used to provide a >glossy protective coating on wood. It takes about 100,000 insects to produce a pound of red-tinged resin. The >colour can be extracted and used as a dye. To make clear shellac, the resin is bleached with hypochlorite.

… So, bug secretions. Yum! Chocolate-covered ants must pale in comparison. And gummy worms are obviously >just a lame substitute.

So no M&Ms for vegetarians!

There is a similar problem with a red dye that is sometimes used for food, cosmetics, and natural dying of wool and other fabrics. It is made from bugs.

https://naturaldyes.ca/cochineal