2 week summer trip with kids

Given your time horizon, I will suggest you get some tour books for each country you are considering.

An economical way to do this is thriftbooks.com they have a pretty good selection of RS tour books, most for less than $4 and a year or two old. They will give you an idea of what is where, and when you have narrowed down your selection you can get current books to fine tune your travel plans

joe32f is wise. Start with more specific research, however try to confine yourselves a little geographically. For example, Germany and Switzerland make a good combo. With two weeks, sleep in no more than 4 locations. Use the trains. Much more relaxing than driving and often no more time than flying.

Once you have narrowed down the country (countries) have the kids do some research too.

FYI, your friends will always want you to go to places they loved. Research these suggestions but make sure you are going for reasons important to you and your kids.

I am definitely going to be doing more research. I guess for now, what would be helpful from this thread is:

1) What are some cool/interesting places to take kids? Is there anything that really stands out to you that kids this age (12 and 16) would enjoy?

3) is it crazy to plan a trip that has you flying to really different areas (say, take a train to a couple spots in Germany, fly to a Greek island for a couple of days then fly to a different farther away spot)? Or is this as valid a way to plan to travel as the typical pick a couple neighboring countries and travel through them?

The last question is probably the most important because it potentially sets the whole trip. If flying to a couple really different/farther away areas doesn’t make sense then I need to pick the geographic location with the most we want to see, combined with the weather that makes sense (no desire to spend the whole trip slodging through high heat), and start planning from there. In that case we will likely do Germany and a neighboring country or two, vs say Germany for 2 stops then a Greek island or something like that. But if it is just as valid to fly around, and doesn’t add a ton of time or expense, then maybe I pick the couple areas we would like to see the most, with no worries about if they are on opposite sides of Europe. This is likely a one time only trip for us as a family, which is what makes choosing the destinations difficult.

Flying from Germany to a Greek island will take the best part of a day door to door, so unless you want to spend a fair proportion of your holiday in transit, I would try to visit places that are closer together or just have one long move and fly home from there open jaw.

With 2 weeks, I would suggest that you have a maximum of 4 locations and ideally 3. You could easily spend the whole time in Germany and not start to scratch the surface. Berlin including a day at a concentration camp is a rush in 5 full days there.

If you do not want heat in the summer, stay away from Greece, Italy etc. I think that you really need to zero in on what you want to see and do and then it will be a lot easier to decide where to go. As Rick Steves always says, plan like you will be coming back. 2 weeks is not that much time. Flying between countries will take up so much of your precious time.

2020 is 2 years away and what your kids like today will probably be quite different then. If you google activities with kids in different regions, you will see that they usually mean young kids not teens. If you like the outdoors and want to be in a cooler climate, I would look at Switzerland and Austria and maybe add Germany.

Include them in the planning... sometime that is almost as much fun as the actual trip!

Ok, thanks. I will focus on looking at Germany and probably Switzerland or Austria and see what looks good and plan from there.

I think making your way from Munich to Vienna might be a fun trip for all of you. In Munich you can tour the Residenz (Wittelsbachs' palace), grab a bite at the Hofbrauhaus (touristy, yes, but I also had a really interesting conversation there with a regular who was dressed in lederhosen), and see some great art at the Pinakotheks. I haven't been to the Nymphenburg Palace, but my sister-in-law greatly enjoyed it. Dachau is an easy bus ride away. And - while others disagree - I think a trip out to Neuschwanstein is worth the time and effort. The tour I went on took us to Oberammergau and Linderhof.

From here, it's an easy train ride to Salzburg. To be honest, I've never really enjoyed Salzburg, but recognize I am in the minority here. What I DID enjoy was the Sound of Music tour, which is worth it even if you aren't a fan of the film because it gets you into the hills for some breath-taking scenery (and a really fun luge). My sister and I stayed two nights in Hallstatt, and I think your kids would enjoy visiting there. The salt mines are a lot of fun (you don jumpsuits and slide down some slides) and I think (someone please correct me) there are ice caves nearby, although we didn't get a chance to see them. The highlight of Hallstatt for my sister was seeing the old Roman ruins in the basement of the sporting goods store.

From here, you could head to Melk, which has a beautiful abbey, and bike along the Danube to Krems. It's a short, easy train ride on to Vienna, which has loads of museums and palaces. Some say choose between the Hofburg and Schoenbrunn. I say - Do both! I think your kids would also like the Haus der Musik, which is really interactive and, I believe, usually open a bit later than the other museums. One of my trips to Vienna was with my (then) 13 year old cousin, and she enjoyed both the palaces and a visit to Demel, the chocolate shop near the Hofburg. We also visited Budapest on this trip, which is an easy 2h train ride away. She enjoyed the Great Market Hall and the Hospital in the Rock. However, that might be one too many stops for this trip.

I think this trip might be good for you because it's more-or-less in a straight line headed east, and all the destinations are about 2 hours from each other, so transit will be easy and not too time-consuming. Happy planning!

Just a suggestion. Get the kids very involved in the planning. If they have "skin in the game" they are much more likely to be "happy campers" and have a great trip -- and the same holds true for Mom.

...castles and quaint towns...some outdoor adventure...mountains in Switzerland sound fun...a concentration camp...interested in WWII...castles and quaint towns...

As a starting point for research, perhaps fly into Frankfurt and take a train to Wurzburg for the Prince Bishop's Residence and a fortress. For a quaint (albeit touristy) town do a day trip to Rothenburg. Nuremberg for WWII stuff, and Munich for a concentration camp. And Switzerland of course for mountains and some more quaint towns, and fly back from there.

Try to not have any one night stops and minimize two night stops. Do day trips from "central" locations. You'll lose at least three quarters of a day each time you relocate.

Since the kids are interested in WWII, have them check a web site named "Third Reich Ruins". It has many phots of locations just after the war, and what the same locations look like today.

"flying from country to country if that gives us the best options for skipping around... they are used to road trips... a whirlwind school tour of London, Paris, Germany, Austria and Switzerland..."

With 2 weeks and a family of four, the fast-paced travel style you previously used should really not be a template for your trip to Europe - the logistics become very stressful that way. Go with Laurel's advice: "...sleep in no more than 4 locations." Flying around to distant places like Greece or Iceland is counter-productive... too much time in transit to/from airports, in security lines and at baggage carousels. Stick with ground travel. Do the trains if possible for the cultural experience - that won't be hard with only 4 base-town locations.

"I know we want to do some time in Germany..."

Some time Germany and Switzerland will go very quickly. Both countries are very accessible by train and each has a great train system once you get there. But don't make it sound like a prison sentence! Germany can be a lot of fun for families.

"I read something about tunnels under a castle?"

Probably Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar. A fun castle to visit in a great area - the Upper Middle Rhine Valley. Though I think the tunnels may be closed, it's still worth a visit. This page provides Rhine highlights. The Rhine cruise information is less helpful. Be sure to board the cruise boat in Bingen or Rüdesheim and cruise north to St. Goar - or a little further to Boppard - to cover the best stretch of river. Here is a map of that part.

3-5 nights is good for this area. Be sure to tour Marksburg Castle in Braubach too; visit theMosel River as well. Cochem is a good Mosel destination if you make your Rhine base in Boppard. And Burg Eltz is possible from Boppard as well. If you like underground stuff, visit the Bundesbank Bunker in Cochem! Cochem also offers a cool chairlift ride (as does Boppard) for scenic views of their respective river valleys. Also pay a visit to the WW II museum in Remagen (north of Koblenz) and enjoy the town too.

Trains serve both the Rhine and Mosel Valley towns quite well and offer great scenery. A minigroup ticket (scroll down to read about the pass) handles your family of 4 from Boppard, Cochem or Remagen and back - or to Braubach and back - for €23.

After the Rhine: Maybe a 3-5-night stay in the Black Forest / Alsace region (Strasbourg, Colmar) prior to Switzerland (Bernese Oberland)? I'd drop Dachau. That's covered in school - and it's sooo dark for a family vacation and too far to the east for my routing. Visit Osthofen camp (near Worms) on the way south, if you really must.

For "kids":

It depends on the kids in every case, but I would say, Berner Oberland. Plan at least 4 nights there (and assume bad weather 1 of the days).

I agree with Adam. I took each of my 3 kids there when they turned 13, and they loved the Berner Oberland/Lauterbrunnen area--so much so that they have returned there as adults. Strob06, I'll send our dozen favorite hikes with maps and pics to your forum private mail. If you're signed in, just click in the upper right of this page where it says "unread mail".

As someone mentioned previously, going to a concentration camp might be a downer for kids on vacation, and there are Youtube videos that can get the same point across.

Since you'll be in Paris, you might get at their WWII interest by taking a side trip to Bayeux and take a day tour of the Normandy beaches. A good tour guide makes it a tremendous experience. We had Alan Bryson of FirstNormandyBattlefieldtours.com and he was great, but we didn't have kids with us. Here's a recent post on here of someone who took their kids:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/private-tour-guide-for-dday-beaches-and-surrounding-area-in-normandy

Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions! I will definitely bring the kids into the planning as we get closer. I am a planner so this part is fun for me, but I will for sure have them pick things they want to do in each area. They are pretty laid back and love to travel though, and I have learned a lot of “do’s and don’ts” from our US vacations! I tend to want to pack it all in and see everything, but learned on our trip to Yellowstone that doesn’t make for a great vacation for kids! (too much car time, moving every night and not enough unstructured just run around time made for a some grumpy kids!).

It’s just the three of us so we can be pretty flexible with what we do in a way we couldn’t if we had extended family going.

Based on our Yellowstone trip the advice to stay several nights in one area is absolutely a good one for us! I will plan to move by train and will look at some of the areas suggested. I will especially look at the Berner Oberland area. I can’t wait to see what you send Shoe! And sorry if I made Germany sound like a prison! That certainly wasn’t my intent. I just meant we definitely want to spend some time in Germany and then are looking for other countries to go along with it!

As for the concentration camp, I will wait and see once we get closer. I went to Dachau on a school trip in HS and it has stayed with me in a way that I don’t think books or shows or learning in school can. I honestly can’t imagine taking them to that part of the world and NOT taking them to one, I just think it is such an important part of history. But, I am also not going to plan the whole trip around it and if we do go it will be a part day followed by something fun (how our teachers handled it), so as not to be too depressing for vacation.

Thanks again!

The Anne Frank House in Amsterdam would be a great alternative to a concentration camp for teens, but be sure to get tickets months in advance. I have not been to towns outside Amsterdam, but some of them might fit the quaint description. Amsterdam would be easy to get to from Paris and would likely have flights to many other locations.

If in Amsterdam, the Museum of the Resistance is quite powerful and well laid out. I took a 14-year-old there some years back and she was fascinated. Also, as you are no doubt aware, Dachau is an easy, and fairly short train ride from Munich. Finally: You'll also find a LOT of useful information about WWII sites in the link "September News" on this website:
Home / Watch, Read, Listen / Travel News
There are long articles about sites in multiple countries that may be on your itinerary, including one article: "Sobering Sites of Nazi Europe"

You're smart to think about the risk of miserably hot weather. Two weeks of that can be a real drag. Try to be sure you have some time in areas where there is very little risk of extreme heat. One possibility is going up high in the mountains. In both Switzerland and Austria there are opportunities to walk from one village to another, assuming the weather cooperates. (You didn't mention particular budget concerns, but Switzerland is extremely expensive. Austria, Germany and Italy have less expensive mountain areas.) Another good area for a mid-summer trip is Normandy, which tends to be coolish and overcast.

You can get a lot of variety into your itinerary without traveling great distances--big old city, big newer city (like Berlin), time in mountains, time at a lake and/or on a river.

Berlin is a superb location for folks interested in Cold War history.

Hello strob06,
(Edit)
If you will be in Europe a total of 14 days, after you depart from Paris, I recommend going to two countries : GERMANY and AUSTRIA. Travel in railroad trains. The train ride from Munich in Germany to Salzburg in Austria is a two hour trip. If each person will have the 5 - day rail pass for GERMANY (unlimited train travel in any five days) that rail pass can be used for riding in trains from Munich to Salzburg. I liked Salzburg more than Munich. Salzburg has a medieval castle (on the hill). Go on day trips from Salzburg.
I liked the five hour tour, in a van, from Salzburg to Wolfgang See. It is a big lake in the Salzkamergut region, not far from Salzburg. That lake is surrounded by Alps mountains that have white snow peaks. With big fluffy white clouds in the blue sky. It looks dreamy. At a side of Wolfgang See is the small very old town St. Wolfgang. It is charming. And I was at Gilgan at the north end of that lake. It is a place for water sports in the summers. The cool breeze there felt wonderful !
If your children are interested in seeing things related to World War 2 in Europe, go from Salzburg to Berchtesgaden : NAZI ducumentation center. It is a museum of the German military in World War 2. And from there, you can ride in a vehicle up the hill to Adolf Hitler's "Eagle's Nest". Good view of Alps mountains from up there. The easiest way to go to that place is to ride in a bus of a tour business from Salzburg. Ask for the Hitler's Eagle's Nest tour. You might not have time for going to Vienna, or Berlin, in that trip. I do not recommend going to a World War 2 concentration camp (Death camp) in Germany. At those places, thousands of young people (younger than age 15) were killed by being gasssed. Their dead bodies were burned in fire in a furnace.
From Paris, I suggest : ride in an express train to Koblenz in Germany, and ride in another train from Koblenz to St. Goar or Bacharach. Hotel in one of those towns. The next day, ride on a K-D ship on the Rhine River from Bacharach or Bingen or Rudesheim to St. Goar. If you start early in the morning, you could also go up the hill to the Neaderwald monument from Rudesheim (at the north side of the river).
An other day, go to the medieval castle Marksburg. It is on top of a hill, with beautiful views of hills covered with trees, and grape vines are at a side of one hill. If you want to walk through Neuschwanstein (King Ludwig's castle in Bavaria), I recommend riding in trains from St. Goar or Bacharach (via Mainz) to Fussen, be at a hotel in Fussen two nights. In the day between those two nights, visit Neuschwanstein, and ride in a cable gondola up the mountain to Tegelburg. A ticket for admission to Neuschwanstein is for a specific time. You could reserve the tickets before you travel to Europe. Ride in trains from Fussen to Salzburg (change trains at Munich). When you leave Salzburg, ride in a train to Munich. 2 or 3 nights in Munich, and fly from Munich airport. And, you would have a few days for going to an other place in Germany. (Heidleburg ?) .

First. DO NOT take the kids to a Concentration Camp. The first time I went, I was 20 and it was hard to comprehend. It put me in a down mood for about five days. I do not really remember the next few days until I was out of my down mood. I visited a second time with a group from our youth hostel a few days later. I had to walk up to a female who read German and had to push her head to the ground and walk her out. She cried on my shoulder for quite a while. Take them to the museum in Washington. Don't that be their defining memory of Germany. Kids are moody enough.

Shoe has great maps of hiking in the Lauterbrunnen Valley in Switzerland. I have been twice with kids, and they LOVED it. The still want to go back. There is a Via Ferrata in Murren. On the next valley over there is a HUGE zip line above Grindelwald or you can rent a bike and ride down the mountain on a trail. There are several Luge tracks in Germany they can ride. Last year we spent two weeks in Salzburg, Hallstatt and Vienna. Spend four or five days in Lauterbrunnen Valley. It is worth it and one day will be weathered in.

Enjoy. Remember, this trip if for you and your kids. You have enough time for the kids to start reading books set in places you can visit.

First. DO NOT take the kids to a Concentration Camp.

The OP is the best placed to know how their kids will react and whether it is appropriate or not. Everyone's experiences and reactions are different, I was a bit sombre after visiting Auschwitz but soon perked up once we got back to Krakow and hit the bars!

I would, however, suggest that 12 is too young. I certainly wouldn't take any of my children at that age. If you haven't been it's difficult to imagine the sheer magnitude of the horror until it's there in front of you.

CONCENTRATION CAMPS

I guess mine will be a view from a different angle, but I disagree.... 12 is a very good age for kids to reflect and understand on facts and events of life, ESPECIALLY, if an adult introduces the issue and explains the 'whys' rather than the 'hows'.

For those that have never been, don't you go thinking that these are themepark-like places, there's no added unnecessary dramatism or gore effects, in fact, sobriety and frugality tends to be the norm: a few objects here, a few pictures there and text panels (lots of them), because the goal isn't for visitors "to experience" but to discover, to understand and most importantly to reflect, if you catch my drift, so the issue tends to be presented in a sober manner rather than in a dramatic one.

The different camps across Europe that have been preserved to this day, precisely for this purpose (in Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Austria...), are visited every year by many groups of children in school trips and by many families from different nationalities so they can learn from this shameful episode of our History here in Europe and try to prevent repeating it in the future.

But, of course, the view on "how much sheltering your children about life is too much" differs in both sides of the Atlantic, or I rather dare to say from person to person, so only you can decide whether your 12 yo is prepared or not to confront this visit. As a History buff I've visited a few and for what I have observed, adults tend to be more "hit" than younger people, probably because of your previous knowledge even "closeness" to the issue -many may even have a grandfather that fought in the war, or worst, was a camp prisoner (or guard!)- which predisposes you even before you've visited.

Thanks again for everyone’s advice. I will certainly assess my kids maturity and ability to process the visit before making a final decision on visiting a concentration camp. I did go to Dachau as a student at about 15/16, so I am aware of the impact on kids. I think our instructors handled it well in that we had a set amount of time to visit and we were not allowed to see the film, and then we went and did something fun immediately after.

I look at it this way, in the US you will often have discussions around 9/11 about what is appropriate for schools to teach/show about the terrorist attacks. Many people feel younger kids should be shielded from knowing what happened, however kids in NYC grow up knowing about it because there are pictures of the firefighters, police and neighbors who lost their lives in local deli’s and businesses and tributes large and small throughout the city. It is simply part of their reality from a very young age.

I think that while vacation is about having fun, what happened in WWII is important in a much bigger way than many other history lessons. Survivors of the war have aged out of society and you no longer have the neighbor down the street who hid in the woods to escape the Nazi’s, as my neighbor growing up did, so it is becoming less of a part of people’s reality today, at least in the US. I think it is vitally important that kids today truly understand the magnitude of what happened so that it is never repeated. I don’t think you get the same understanding of from a history class as from talking to a survivor (pretty much not an option anymore) or visiting a site. I think that understanding is worth an afternoon of discomfort on vacation.

I do appreciate everyone’s perspectives and I certainly will make sure that whatever we end up doing is age appropriate and is not the primary focus of the trip. More and more I am thinking about going to Amsterdam after Paris and before Germany and would definitely want to visit the Anne Frank house, and certainly don’t want to make every stop about the war, so I will reasses once we get closer and have the itenerary more set, and see what my youngest’s maturity level and ability to process the visit is as he gets a little older.

strob06,
I agree with you about the concentration camp. We took our 12 year old to Dachau so she could have a notion of how low mankind can go if not kept in check. Dachau is a good one since it is the most sanitize of the concentration camps.
I think Germany and Austria would be good choices. For 2 weeks (14 days?) you can do Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Salzburg and fly home from Munich.

That Castle with tunnels underneath you are thinking about is probably Schloss Fürstenstein or Książ in Polish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Książ
It’s located in the Silesia region in present day Poland. Silesia was German for 300 years or so, but was given to Poland after WW2.

I think it is vitally important that kids today truly understand the
magnitude of what happened so that it is never repeated. I don’t
think you get the same understanding of from a history class as from
talking to a survivor (pretty much not an option anymore) or visiting
a site.

The lessons of the Holocaust do matter, and making a concentration camp visit mandatory for high school graduation, if it were remotely practical, might be a noble effort toward preventing another holocaust. But honestly, I have never once felt like the lessons of the Holocaust might be lost on my own child, or that without a concentration camp experience she might sometime contribute to another one. On top of her school lessons, as a teen she saw a half dozen or more Holocaust-themed films and finished a similar number of reading-list entries on the subject and discussed these things with her parents. It was much the same for her friends, who by the time they were well into high school, had a pretty negative impression of Germany overall and a very slim understanding of what Germany and Germans are actually like today. They thought it was very peculiar that my daughter and her parents would choose to spend any time in Germany at all on their vacations (which we did - but not in a single concentration camp.) Long story short... If US grads walk off the stage remembering anything at all about Germany, it is Germany's responsibility for WW II and the Holocaust. This lesson is often taught long and hard and to the near exclusion of the rest of German history and culture - and as a result, kids typically exit their teen years with enduring negative stereotypes and lots of under-informed views about today's Germany and its people. IMHO it's a good travel strategy for Germany-bound families to fill in their knowledge gaps - to seek out those parts of German history and German culture that schools and Hollywood have under-emphasized or overlooked altogether - and for the children to visit concentration camps some other time as adults if they choose to do so.

I am also not going to plan the whole trip around it and if we do go
it will be a part day followed by something fun (how our teachers
handled it), so as not to be too depressing for vacation.

WW II sites are one thing, but concentration camps quite another. CC visits take most people to a very dark place, and "fun stuff" as a chaser isn't really doable IME.

Russ - While I understand and respect your opinion, I went to a concentration camp as a teen, during a 2 week school trip, so I do have some experience in what I am talking about. It didn’t ruin the rest of trip for me or my classmates. And yes, going and doing something fun to help shake off the CC mood after actually did seem to work.

Since starting this thread I have googled “taking kids to concentration camp” and have found that many other parents have taken kids this age to a concentration camp during vacation and it also seemed to work out ok for them.

I honestly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, it is what each parent feels is best for their family. You don’t think taking kids to a concentration camp is appropriate on vacation. I can’t imagine going to that part of the world and NOT including that. To each their own. It is probably time we just agree to disagree on this and move on to other topics. I do thank you and everyone else who chimed in for your opinions though, healthy, respectful debate is always good.

Yes the castle with tunnels underneath it is Schloss Fürstenstein or Zamek Książ now in the Silesian region of western Poland. I visited Zamek Książ, along with the rest of the Silesian region in the summer of 2017 and I highly recommend it!

The castle itself is a large, originally medieval castle of the Duchy of Pless, and overlooks the Pełcznica river gorge. During WW2 the Germans built underground tunnels here. In these tunnels is apparently where the train filled with Nazi gold is hidden. This tunnel network was part of Project Riese, which was a secret Nazi project consisting of several underground megastructures (for yet unknown reasons).

The major town in the area which I visited is Kłodzko which has been referred to as “Little Prague”, definitely the architecture of the town reflected that. By far the most interesting site in the town is the old Prussian Fortress that dominates the center of the town. It was apparently one of the largest star fortifications in the Prussian Empire and is in remarkably well preserved. This was in September so I was literally the only one in the fortress, had the whole thing to myself to explore!

The surrounding countryside is dotted with many old German spa towns that were from the time when the area was part of the German Empire. They are really picturesque. I stayed at Polanica-Zdrój (German: Altheide-Bad), at Villa Polanica, which has hands down the best Pierogi in Poland, like pillows of clouds. I also stopped at Stołowe Mountains National Park which is a primeval forest dotted with some very unique rock formations (they actually filmed one of the Narnia movies there).

We spent 3 weeks this June/July in Germany, Austria, Slovenia & Venice with our 11 & 14 yo boys. We spent 3 nts in Boppard, 2 nts in Rothenburg, 5 nts in Salzburg, 4 nts Ljubljana, 3 nets Venice, 3 nts Munich.

I recommend the Salzburg area. My oldest loves military history. We went to Eagles Nest in Berchtesgaden. Spectacular view on a clear day. Red Bull hanger was a hit. The boys loved the sommerrodelbahn near Hallein. We went to Hallstatt and did the salt mine tour. Paragliding over Salzburg was the highlight of our trip. Werfen castle and ice caves are great. Lots of fun stuff near Salzburg, and stunning scenery.

We went to Dachau. It was a solemn morning towards the end of the trip and we were glad to leave that place. But it was important for us to go. Prior to the trip we heard a holocaust survivor share his story. Walking those grounds will stay with us forever.

If it's a useful reference point, Yad VaShem, the Holocaust Remembrance Center in Jerusalem, does not permit children under the age of 11 to enter the museum, where the "graphic" exhibitions are.

If you follow your current plan to go to Amsterdam before Germany, you would be able to talk to your children after they go to the Anne Frank house to see if they want to go to the CC and base your decision on that. And of course point out that Anne died from disease, not from the gas chambers. And if only one child doesn't want to go, maybe parents could switch off and go to CC at different times.

Carlos that sounds like a great trip! I don’t think we will make Poland this time, but will keep it in mind. That is the problem, there are so many places that sound good and we can’t do all of them, choosing is hard!

Travel4fun - I definitely want to try to fit it in Salzburg! I think the kids would love the salt mines and caves and everything. I see you did 5 nights there! I will have to give it another look for all the activities and see how long we should stay.

Nestor - your suggestion of Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Salzburg and fly home from Munich intrigues me. I keep going back and forth on Berlin. I need to really do some research and see if I think it fits this trip

One itinerary I am thinking is similar to Nestor’s above, but I am not sure about Berlin. I keep comparing it to trying to include NYC on a 2 week trip, it could easily be a week in itself!

Another idea I had was leaving Paris and going to Amsterdam. Amsterdam seems different from anything else we will see and looks like it may be a good place to start, and is an easy train ride from Paris. After that I thought about taking a train to Munich stopping for a few days at Heidelberg or a different rown along the way. Spend several days in Munch and then go to either to Salzburg or into the Alps. I would really like to do the Berner Oberland area and spend several days, but the travel time from Munich is making me think the Austrian Alps may be a better choice. Maybe I could even work in Salzburg and then the Austrian Alps, but that may be pushing it with too many stops.

I would really like to fit Prague in, but given the geography I think I would be back to something like Nestor recommended and have to skip Amsterdam and the Alps, although maybe we could fit in an Austrian Alps couple days if we try. I think that right now I am between taking an evening train from Paris to Amsterdam and then heading south to Munich or flying to Berlin or Prague from Paris and starting there. I need to go back through what Ron and Russ and Allison and others posted upthread with ideas of routes and stops. I think I need a spreadsheet! Luckily I have the better part of a year to figure it out. I am going out with a friend tonight who may go with us (her and her then 17 yo son) If they go then what they want to see will influence the trip too. If it ends up just being me and the kids then I may put a couple different itineraries together and see which the kids like best. Although then I run the risk of each picking a different one!

That’s a good thought Cala - I am a single mom so if it ends up just me and the kids going we will only be doing things we can all do, but if my friend and her son end up going we could certainly switch off.

There is no universal rule about taking or not taking kids to concentration or death camps. Death camps are not necessarily more difficult to explain than castles or museums. (“kids, I would like to see this death camp; human beings are defective as a species and sometimes genocides are conducted and people have always been killing other people ... they took their victims here in train-cars meant for livestock, gassed them 200 at a time, and made other prisoners shovel their bodies into ovens ... and so on... ) obviously you are not going to say this in a happy tone; obviously your kids normally behave well enough, otherwise you wouldn’t be taking them on this trip - it doesn’t necessrily matter if they fail to philosophically understand some sites; you don’t necessarily have to insist that your kids “understand” everything they see. Just talk to your kids about what sites you think you want to see and see what their reactions are. When you mention going to a site (death camp, castle, or anywhere), tell them what the place is in just a few sentences and show them the pages in your guidebooks where the sites are described so that they can read the descriptions. You may have to take your kids to one or more places they won’t like but you can let them pick a few sites; let them read your guidebooks and see which places they want to see. Others are right about planning based on geography - pick sites in just one country, or in two or three or more neighboring countries; keep your focus narrow, on certain geographic area(s), time periods, and so on.

I have four adult kids (in their 20s). They are lovely, compassionate human beings. Obviously, they know and understand the holocaust. They had a rather extensive unit in high school, they have always been interested in history and have done some study of WWII. They also know that still today, there are situations beyond comprehension. For reasons neither I nor my kids can fathom, some humans, especially when they become organized into groups do unspeakable things. I visited with one of my kids this weekend at her sporting event. We got into conversation about refugees, and within minutes she was in tears and was sharing what she'd been reading about what is transpiring in Somalia. IMHO, there is no need for her to visit a concentration camp. She is beyond compassionate. I will also say there are ways to get the same point across without going to a concentration camp. The holocaust museum in DC would be one. Further, there are also other meaningful venues in Europe that can be very impactful and are more subtle. When one of my sons and I met my other son in Budapest after he had studied there for a month, one of the things he wanted to share with us was the sculptures of all the shoes along the Danube. He'd already seen it a few times and still was teary eyed when he shared it. Another option would be the Anne Frank house. It provides context of a family and again, was very impactful without being extremely disturbing. For my kids, I would have never brought them to concentration camps, I would let them make that decision for themselves when they are making their own travel plans as adults.