2 days in Ghent/Antwerp or York?

That's a tough one. I do love Ghent, but I'd have to vote for York as I love it more. 😊 There is so much history there and beautiful scenery in the area that I could spend weeks here (and actually will next year).

I would probably go with the option you posted on your other thread of:

3 nights Bruges/6 London/2 York/4 Edinburgh

I like Bruges but I agree with Mardee I'd go for York. I'm neutral on Ghent although I've spend nearly 14 nights there over the last few years with either a Rick Steves tour or a Road Scholar tour + independent time. I'm not crazy about Antwerp as it just seems like a big city.

London is relatively easy to get to from Bruges as you will take a local train to Brussels and then get the Eurostar from there to London. (Someone probably mentioned that on your other thread)

I suggest you base the decision on convenience. Are you already going to be in Belgium or near Belgium? Are you going to be in the UK? I loved York! I’ve always wanted to go to Bruges & Ghent. So I think whichever you choose you will love where you are. Since it’s only two days, I would make that choice based on the proximity of where you’ll be before those two days and then after.

I've been to all those places recently (except London) and between Ghent/Antwerp or York I'd definitely pick York. After Bruges those two cities will not seem as charming or picturesque in my opinion (York certainly will).

I looked at your other thread and I like this itinerary you proposed:

3 nights Bruges (no day trips); 6 nights London (w/ Windsor); 2
nights York; 4 nights Edinburgh (w/ St Andrews)

How are you getting from Bruges to London? Sorry if you already said on your other thread and I missed it, I'm skimming as I'm working right now...

Mardee, Pam, and Mary: Thank you so much! Your comments are incredibly helpful. Especially since you're all in agreement lol. Others may come along with their own differing arguments (which I do welcome!), but your perspectives on which itinerary and why is really landing for me.

Perhaps one day we'll return to do a tour of Belgium to see Ghent and Antwerp, but York being able to hold its own after the charms of Bruges (as the two smaller cities on this trip) is especially convincing to me for this first trip.

So we're looking at: 3 nights Bruges; 6 nights London; 2 nights York; 4 nights Edinburgh.

We'll be flying into Brussels, and then from there it'll be all train travel -- Eurostar to London, then train up north through the UK. Flying home from Edinburgh.

I kinda sorta feel like maybe our next step is locking down dates! (We're looking at late Sept/early Oct 2024, wanting shoulder season for crowd and weather purposes.)

You're welcome! I have trip reports on Ghent, Antwerp, and York in my profile if you're interested.

Oh I definitely am! (Btw, loooove that you've got them linked right there in your profile, super helpful!) -- I've got them bookmarked to read tomorrow!

That is a good time of year but don’t really count on this being shoulder season any more.

York has old charm as well. No canals, of course, but small rivers running thru town, intact city walls, a stunning cathedral and some cool museums.

BTW, try not to be in Bruges on a Monday. That is the day most of the museums are closed.

When you are looking at airfare, look at both what you are thinking right now as well as the reverse of your itinerary. It may be less expensive one way or the other.

Mardee, Pam, and Mary: Thank you so much! Your comments are incredibly helpful. Especially since you're all in agreement lol.

And we're always right, too! 🤣

Pam: all super helpful! I'm trying to prepare myself for unavoidable throngs of tourists, but I truly cannot wrap my head around dealing with summertime temps ... we keep talking about pushing it later and later into the fall.

Mardee: I'm DYING, love it 🔥

BTW, try not to be in Bruges on a Monday. That is the day most of the museums are closed.

Also try to avoid the weekend too. It was noticeably more busy when I went. I know, it's almost impossible. It's always going to be a weekend somewhere on a trip.

"And we're always right, too! 🤣"

@Mardee!!! That's hilarious!

Oh Hannah, I hear you about the heat. No can do! I've been to both London and Paris during August heat waves and just cannot repeat that experience. If you are ever looking for a chilly destination for an August trip, I highly recommend Orkney and Shetland - never got above about 65 on the "warmest" sunniest mid-August day, hahaha!! Temp-wise you will be find the end of Sept/early Oct even if there are still lots of tourists.

Pam, if I could make everywhere always have a high of 65* I'd be very happy indeed.

Mary, I'm already on it! Looking to depart ideally on a Monday so we'll have Tuesday - Thursday in Bruges!

Edited to add:
(Unless we do the itinerary options I've listed below, in which case perhaps we depart on a Sunday, be in Antwerp Mon + Tues, and then Bruges Wed - Sat ... ) (I figure the monday in Antwerp won't matter so much since it'll be arrival day.)

Hi, friends. I'm back with a curveball. Because every time I think I'm settled on an itinerary once and for all, I'm absolutely not. Not settled at all.

Okay, so York is most definitely happening (CATS!) ... but what would you all say if given the choice of more time in Belgium in order to add in Antwerp and Ghent (2 nights in Antwerp + a day trip to Ghent from Bruges), but cutting Edinburgh out from this trip?

I'm definitely interested in going to Edinburgh. But I'm not (yet) sold it's a must see, at least on this trip. And I've heard SO many people (on this forum and in another online space I'm part of), who've unexpectedly fallen in love with either Ghent or Antwerp. (I also think my husband would love Antwerp.)

So the options here would be:

3 nights Bruges / 6 London / 2 York / 4 Edinburgh

or

2 nights Antwerp / 4 nights Bruges with Ghent day trip / 6 London / 3 York

If ending the trip in York, we could fly out from Manchester with only one layover.

Thoughts?!

I would definitely not cut out Edinburgh for Antwerp. And with 3 nights in Bruges, you could consider spending part of the second day in Ghen if you are curious - it does not take much more than a day to see Bruges' highlights. Your previous plan was better, in my opinion!
If you really want more time in Belgium, a slight adjustment could be 4 nights Bruges (to have more time for day trips) / 6 nights London / 2 nights York / 3 nights Edinburgh, as I think that 2 full days in Edinburgh can suffice (especially since you can get there early, coming from York).

I don't see anything wrong with postponing Edinburgh until a later trip. In fact, every time I see an itinerary whose only stop in Scotland is Edinburgh, I think about all the other wonderful places that are missing. I wouldn't go to Scotland just to have a few days in Edinburgh.

York, you need at least two full days. Don't miss the National Railway Museum.

balso I really appreciate your input here.

I've considered doing 4 nights in Bruges, which would allow for day trips and still have enough nights to include Edinburgh at the end (cutting that from 4 nights to 3). My concern is that then those 3.5 days in Belgium would feel a bit frantic. We like a pretty leisurely pace. I'm also concerned we wouldn't get the best of Antwerp on a day trip.

So that itinerary would be: 4 nights Bruges (w/ 1-2 day trips to Ghent and Antwerp) / 6 London / 2 York / 3 Edinburgh

It definitely fits everything in. I just think it's feeling like a rush?

I could see us returning to do Scotland on its own ... but honestly other places would likely call first. And so I don't love the idea of giving up Edinburgh for this trip.

Ack! What to do?!

Hey Hannah! I loved seeing the evolution of your trip planning with some feedback on distances, etc. Especially saving Paris for another trip entirely! Well done! And entirely less travel time versus 'being time', which I noticed was what you preferred from the very beginning, 'slow travel'. I too would stick with your current plan, unless you're super excited about just hanging out in Belgium. You said it best -

Perhaps one day we'll return to do a tour of Belgium to see Ghent and Antwerp, but York being able to hold its own after the charms of Bruges (as the two smaller cities on this trip) is especially convincing to me for this first trip.

I don't like touring with luggage to lock up, but note how out of the way is Bruges. Eurostar (buy in advance, consider Any Belgian Station add-on) seems pretty fast to Brussels, but you need almost as long to get to Bruges from Brussels. It is a mistake to think of Bruges as "near London."

That said, I have daytripped to Bruges from Antwerp twice. I simply prefer Antwerp, but that is not a universal opinion. I liked York fine, but did not feel it was a must-see. However, your route makes it sensible to include. Don't miss the stockade opposite the rail museum, site of a massacre of Jews in 1190.

See this English Heritage page about the York massacre of 1190- https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/cliffords-tower-york/history-and-stories/massacre-of-the-jews/

Edinburgh is my favorite city in the world, so of course I am going to tell you — don’t drop it!

It sounds like you are more likely to visit Belgium than Scotland in the near future, so that argues for Edinburgh. In fact, it argues for dropping Belgium altogether (which is what I would do), but if your heart is set in Bruges, go for it. (I absolutely loved Belgium, but I was a little disappointed in Bruges. I think my expectations were too high.)

I agree with Carroll that it would make it a lot easier if you skip Belgium for now and focus on the UK. I combined my trip to Belgium with one to the Netherlands, which made a lot more sense since they border each other.

I enjoyed Bruges but it did not live up to my expectations. I am in the minority, though (except for Carroll). :-) I liked Ghent a lot better that Bruges. I also enjoyed Edinburgh but comparing Edinburgh to Bruges is like comparing apples to oranges. So go with your gut. :)

Sandancisco Hi! So glad you popped back up, and you are SO right about how the evolution of this trip is getting us so much closer to the leisurely travel we prefer.

Tim and Mardee I totally agree ... the UK and Belgium would be better as individual, separate trips. And yet the heart wants what the heart wants, which in this case is both Bruges and London for our first trip together to Europe! So here we go :)

Tim and isn31c Oh, thank you for drawing my attention to this. I've bookmarked the link to make sure it doesn't get missed. Really appreciate it.

Carroll! Stay tuned! (Hint: Edinburgh is staying!)

Mardee I'm honestly laughing because everyone has such strong and differing opinions on the three Belgian cities ... all the opinions are so helpful, except not! LOL! Bruges already holds a special place for us (we're pretty much in the cult fandom of the In Bruges film world) which is why it's prioritized for this first trip, but I very much would love to experience all three cities and see where I land! I could see us coming back to Belgium, adding it on to Paris if I can convince my not-interested-in-Paris husband or, more likely, the Netherlands.

Okay, friends, I'm back with the latest! And the latest is what will be very close to, if not exactly, the final itinerary:

3 nights Bruges / 6 London / 2 York / 4 Edinburgh

Daytrips:
- Antwerp from Bruges
- Windsor from London
- St. Andrews from Edinburgh

There is a possibility, though very slight, that we may add 2 nights to the trip. If so, that could be adding:

• 2 nights Antwerp (and then doing Ghent as the day trip from Bruges)
• an extra night each in London and York (then doing a day trip from York)

Next steps: finalizing number of nights; locking down dates (looking to leave mid-to-end September '24); grabbing airfare and booking hotels.

I truly can't thank everyone enough for all the kind words, thoughts, and input that has helped shape this itinerary! I'm very grateful.

And yet the heart wants what the heart wants, which in this case is both Bruges and London for our first trip together to Europe

Loved it! So true. Go to the places that speak to you!

Hannah, sounds like it's time to get those airplane tickets nailed down! The trip can now just getting tweaked the way you would like it, & there's still room to change the day trips. Thanks for highlighting York, for some reason I have missed it on my trips, & can see why you're so interested. i just found a good overview on Youtube, might be useful? https://youtu.be/F8rxTbBKGSI?si=1IScm99b5APgZSXJ.

One suggestion about day trips - Go as early as possible, best iight, fewer people, makes places magical. I design my own google map, using hotel location & laying out the sites I want to see & nearby recommended food. Makes the hunt easier while on the ground!

Hannah, are you and your husband golf fans? If so then St. Andrews makes sense, and it certainly has a lot to see in its own right.

However, I would also make a case for a day trip to Stirling Castle from Edinburgh. It's a relatively quick trip by train and Stirling Castle is incredible. I actually enjoyed it much more than Edinburgh Castle. There is a free guided tour offered every hour starting from 10 am that is wonderful, and the views from Stirling Castle are amazing! The town of Stirling is also well worth seeing. It is very picturesque with many historical buildings, like the Church of the Holy Rude and its adjoining cemetery, Mars Wark ruins, and many others.

Don't you love how we throw all these other places at you? It's not like you have any decisions to make! 🤣

Reading this thread…..hmmmm. Hannah, your approaching this like it will be your only trip to Europe. It won’t be. Wherever you want go this time, but can’t fit in, put it at the top of your next visit. I mean you don’t even have Paris on your list!🤣

Sandancisco Ohhhh! That York video! It's made me even more excited about this stop. Thanks so much for passing it along!! (We were thinking 2-3 nights there and this might be tipping it toward 3!)

MARDEE! Ack! Too many choices! Stop confusing my novice travel brain! 😭 (Though this is actually one where St. Andrews will win out -- my husband has a long history with golf -- and if we had more time in Scotland then Stirling would be added. Perhaps instead on a return trip 🤞)

This week's goal is locking down our dates and beginning to look at flights!

PS. Sandancisco that is a fantastic tip about making the Google map!

This week's goal is locking down our dates and beginning to look at flights!

It will seem SO REAL once you do that. Then you can start counting down the days 😄

Thanks Hannah! I finally learned to make a bespoke Google Map, rather than laboriously looking through Google Maps for some previously viewed destination! Hey I just saw a thread on Bruges historical walks, maybe of interest. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/walking-tour-in-bruges

Hannah, lol! Okay, no more suggestions! And if your husband is a big golf nut, then St. Andrews for sure!

"we're pretty much in the cult fandom of the In Bruges film world"

Oh, well then, you will LOVE Bruges! The photography of Bruges in that film is really good. I read somewhere that even in the chase scene they have the background in the order you would see it if you walked from one place to another.