Travel in the time of COVID

During the early days of the pandemic, cruise ships were incubators for Covid. Breakouts about ship were commonplace.

Absolutely, Frank. I remember thinking, “boy, a cruise is the last thing I’d be doing” But, now people are vaccinated. In some ways it seems to me that with a cruise the risks might still be the same as independent travel, but someone else is assuming the risk and having to adapt/reschedule as events happen.

I am with Frank, I wouldn’t want to be in such close proximity to so many people - I am double vaccinated. I heard yesterday of yet another person who has tested positive, despite being vaccinated. I wouldn’t want the risk.

Personally, I wouldn’t go on a cruise now if you paid me. I prefer to have control of where I am going and when that will be.

I clearly remember the ships that couldn’t make port. The odds are highly against that…but if it happens your in a whole different world on inconvenience . And wasn’t there a recent cruise that lost half its ports when local authorities wouldn’t let it dock.

Maybe you’ll take a different viewpoint, jules m, but for me, even if the cruise line was planning the itinerary and scheduling extra cleaning, assigning dining times and arrangements, and administering specific Covid-19 protocols, the cruise boat environment would still mean more anxiety for me, not less, than an independent travel scenario.

For me, a shipload of people, even on a smaller Viking river boat, vaccinated or not, for several days, is too likely a super spreader situation, and it’ll be another year, or more, before I’d embrace the chance to cruise.

Cyn, I've only been on one cruise in my life, a river cruise about 5 years ago. Liked it, but not more than any other way we have traveled. The biggest thing for us is that we are very modest spenders in terms of travel. I can do a trip for less than half the cost of a cruise. However, for many reasons, some more serious/sad in nature, I would really like to travel in September. I was doing France /Spain. The trip I planned other than the 1st two days in Paris, is to smaller cities/towns with most of the planned activities either outside or with a small group, or both. Well, it's looking quite possible that hotels in Paris will be closed when we arrive. To use the train tickets I've purchased to get me to Bordeaux to pick up the car I've rented, I have to stay in Paris two nights. I'm worried that some of the things I've planned for France will be closed by government mandate. Already, I have wineries that won't commit to a tasting because they think they will be shut down. My biggest worry is that when its time to come home, I'll test positive. My guess is the probability of that is fairly low, but its been happening, and my frame of mind of late is that if it's going to happen to anyone, it will be me. It's not the 10 days longer that bothers us so much as that fact we'd have to spend a fair amount to insure that piece or pay to be cooped up in an expensive hotel, eating expensive room service or delivered food while watching French tv shows (if there's a tv) 16 hours a day. Some will say, if you have that much anxiety over a trip, stay home. But, like I said, I have reasons for wanting to go, and I have not made any decisions, but it does seem that a cruise could be an opportunity to avoid/share the risk. I don't want to sound like I'm looking for banter on this, I was looking for and I appreciate the discussion.

Funny, when I took my girls to Barcelona a few years back and saw the Viking cruise tour guide carrying a yellow flag on a pole, I thought, never will I be in a group of "ducklings" blindly following a flag. I'm not a convert, but the cruise was sort of nice, 8 days in which I had to make very few decisions except for whether I wanted red or white wine for dinner.

One forum member’s post regarding a July 2021 cruise that ended early due to a case of COVID-19 on board:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/2nd-hand-report-iceland-cruise-july-2021

If you are worried about testing positive and being confined to a French hotel room, then consider how much worse it would be to be confined to an even smaller, more claustrophobic cruise cabin and not knowing how long it will be before you can get transferred elsewhere. And on a cruise, one family's predicament has implications for the entire ship (not being able to dock, or having to change course due to infected passengers or staff on board). I can't think of a worse idea to cut your risk than being on a cruise - it was cruise lines, after all, that drew attention to the risks of covid to begin with and were the initial hot spots. And whatever excursions are shut down to individuals that you may face (wine tasting, etc), you're also sure to face them if you are a group coming off a ship. And then there is the cost of smaller passenger and luxury cruise lines and larger rooms - that also seems totally at odds with being value and price conscious.

If you are that anxious, the only way to cut your risk down completely is to not travel right now or in the near term future, even in spite of the disappointment. That seems like a totally viable and smart choice.

No way. Being quarantined on a cruise ship unable to land is my worst nightmare. And it could happen even if I test negative, if there’s an outbreak on the ship.

I’m not going to Europe yet but my general plan to minimize anxiety is to do one country itineraries - and this includes layovers. So direct flights from somewhere in the US only. Takes one factor out of the equation. I also will only go if I can afford (time/money) to stay if my return to the US test comes back positive. That would also mean not pushing the 90 day rule (if you stay 85 then have to quarantine for 10-14 days…what happens? Who knows, I’m not finding out!).

@at Agnes, I can’t speak to how all companies are responding to COVID, just the one I’m looking at. The quarantine doesn’t work the way you are imagining, They don’t have passengers quarantined on the ship. Besides, being quarantined on the ship would give me outdoor space on a balcony, a larger room than I’m likely to get in Paris, and I wouldn’t need to worry about meals. The excursions also have been changed in response to COVID, there are more so they can pivot as needed. Also, they have designed the excursions to be less likely to be impacted by closures. A cruise company has more resources to adapt to changes in both COVID levels and closures than I would as just one person. I’m not trying to sell you on a cruise, I don’t even know if I want to go on the cruise, but I have discussed procedures at length with a company rep. Right now, I don’t have great options and I’m considering a few different scenarios. When I hear people now saying, I’m just going to go, be flexible and make it work, I wonder what they will do if when they arrive and most of the hotels are closed. Or they will find out a few days before their trip, too late to be able to do anything.

I have personal and meaningful reasons to take a trip in September. If I miss that time period it will be quite some time before I can travel again and I’m not getting anywhere in trying to revise my current itinerary.

My original trip is designed about as simply as possible. I have a nonstop flight. I did plan France and Spain, but I can easily drop Spain, in fact I have an “all France” itinerary developed. There is no trip I would take that would go over 30 days, can’t do it with the family responsibilities I have so with a quarantine I wouldn’t come close to reaching 60 days let alone 90. The problem is the country I chose, France, is very impacted by COVID. It all can be canceled but I would like to figure out a replacement that doesn’t cost me a fortune at this late date. And, yes, cruises are expensive, but there is a particular deal I’m looking at that is well priced,

I can see your line of thinking, and I will remind readers that small (under 200 passengers) and some MSC ocean cruises have been cruising through the pandemic....and you rarely hear a peep about Covid repercussions. It does sometimes happen, but you can't measure all cruising by the mess that happened in March 2020 when the entire world was trying to figure out Covid protocols. Cruiselines have adapted their safety protocols and air circulation has improved dramatically. However, you cannot control the behaviour of your fellow passengers, and you are still in a small confined space for quarantine. Every cruiseline handles covid travel differently, with some returning with full capacity, and others with reduced capacity to maintain better social distancing. They have had cruiseships leaving Florida ports for more than a month now. I don't recall any headline breaking news about all these ships being forced to not dock, and delay returns due to a covid breakout.
But every person has their own deciding factors. If the stress of a possible quarantine is causing hives, then you have to decide whether the stress is the actual quarantine or the logistics around it...as the ship will manage and pay for the quarantine logistics, the food may be better, but you will still be in quarantine. I think your risks of potential quarantine would be higher on a cruiseship, as you have less control over your situation. Every passenger and staff will have repeated impact. On land you have more control to mitigate your risks. You can control your activities, proximily to others, rent apartments so you can do your own cleaning and cooking and risks may not be much higher than vacationing near home; particularly if both involve flights.
Things are just going to get worse as we lead into a 4th wave (you know it is inevitable), so you need to assess your risk qotient and stress capacity. Flexibility, direct flight, one country, independent living and activities are the best you can do.

@Maria, I pretty much agree with all you are saying. I also think we could be looking at a 2022 just like 2021. It’s all a crapshoot. When we worked out a plan so we could get away for a trip, we took the “responsible approach”. We were cautious and didn’t go in the summer. We thought if we waited til September, COVID would be even more under control. Hmm., didn’t quite work out that way at all. In fact, people that went the last couple months actually fared pretty well.

In terms of the ship being more dense. Yes, but there are better controls than going to random restaurants in a city or whoever you might meet on the street. Everyone on this cruise would be vaccinated. People can make their own projections, but I think the likelihood of an outbreak is smaller on a ship and vaccinated people will tend to be less sick and they dock most every night and they have arrangements in each city to place people that test positive and need quarantine.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do, but whatever I do will be well researched. I don’t do many things on a whim.

you may be right if all the passengers and all the crew are double vaccinated, as well as the suppliers and local guides and drivers. That would give me a little comfort, but there is a significant number of double jabbed in both the UK and France who are catching the virus. Then you said if passengers test positive they are being taken off the ship into quarantine. Does that mean that everybody is having a test every day? What happens to people on the ship who have been in close contact to that person or family or group? Do they go into quarantine too?

That's how it has been recently in France and the UK. I wonder...

Thanks, Nigel, those are good questions. I do know passengers are tested every other day. Saliva. I will ask on your others thoughts.

My husband pointed out that on our 7 day, Rhine Cruise, at about 56/57 years of age, we were a least close to the youngest passengers if not the youngest. This cruise is 21 days so we suspect, most people would be retirees. That particular subgroup tends to be much more cautious and conservative in their behavior.

EDITED TO ADD:

In terms of break-thru infections, in the UK and France, I've been hearing that many received Astrazenca. Studies seem to indicate that vaccine is less effective. Now, I know the time periods differ and the various variants differ, so like lots of things with COVID, its not completely clear.

I dunno. I feel like if tighter restrictions were to come back into being, the cruise personnel and guests would be subject to them too. They are not going to be able to take you someplace additional that is closed to everyone; they don’t get a free pass.

As someone who got caught out on one of the "Covid cruises" in early 2020, right when the WHO declared the pandemic, I wouldn't recommend it. But that's just my opinion. Cruising isn't my preferred means of travelling anyway, but I'd have to give serious thought to doing it now. Not until this pandemic is over IMHO.

Just curious, for those who wouldn't do a cruise now, are you also not traveling at all internationally this year, period? From my perspective, no right or wrong answer, it's personal preference based on risk aversion or lack there of. During COVID, I've been extremely careful, in fact, I haven't gone to a indoor restaurant, yet.

For me personally, it's nothing against cruising. In fact, I still hope to travel to France next month. But with cruising, it's literally a travelling petri dish where you're exposed more easily. I still remember the day I was on the MS Zaandam in March 2020...I was relaxing in a lounge reading a book, and literally everyone walking by was coughing. That was the same day the WHO declared the pandemic, and our cruise was officially cancelled, even though we were only halfway through the journey. We were denied entry to Chile, and had to sail back to Fort Lauderdale, as no countries along the way would grant us entry. In the end, 5 people died on that cruise.

I'm not saying people shouldn't cruise. But I'd be very wary about doing so right now. I understand the whole "spreading the risk" argument, but cruising would not be my preferred method of travelling right now.

What an experience, Greg. Glad you made it back safely.

I would much prefer to keep the original plan to travel to Paris and just use my good common sense about wearing a mask, being careful about distancing, good hygiene, etc., just like I do in my normal day-to-day life. I cannot believe that every hotel in Paris is closed for the month of August ... maybe you have to stay out of the center, or consider an apartment, but someone has to be offering rooms for rent. I consider myself somewhat conservative when it come to risk-taking, but I also don't want to wait until all this is "under control" (whatever that means) before I travel again. That could be close-to-never, and trying to guess the perfect timing is a losing proposition. We have a trip to France in December and if they'll have us, we're going. If I test positive and need to stay longer, I accept that risk and can afford the extra cost.

Curious as to what Kim would have to say about the Paris hotels. I've read a few places now that the government may likely close hotels at the end of August when the French are thru with their traveling.

If that happens, I would think they'd also be re-closing their borders so it would be a moot point. Why leave borders open to tourists but have no hotels available? Or is the hotel closing conjecture just for Paris?

I think, just Paris, I believe the conjecture came from people on this forum living in Paris.

The government of France has never closed any hotels during this pandemic, even at the height of it.

Many hotel owners found it was not economical to stay open - when people were locked down, and then when lockdowns ended at a time when people don’t normally flock to Paris. These have all been economic decisions about what a business can bear , and different hotels make different decisions depending on the size of their footprint and how many staff it takes to stay open. If they assessed that they were going to lose money by having to pay their staff and electricity and whatever other expenses come with opening the hotel rather than letting it sit, they closed and let the government pay the workers’ salaries.

The French government has never closed a single hotel during the Covid crisis, even at its most dire point. Things may not be perfect now, but I really don’t see them ever getting as awful as they were in those first dark and desperate two to three months.

I don’t believe I ever heard anyone who lives here speculate on the government closing hotels although I should admit that I have not memorized every post on the Forum.

@Kim, this is one of the threads. It is not the exact one that I'm thinking of, but it does refer to the state COVID in France as being severe, possible closures and possibility of hotels closing. Ashley who lives in Paris made one of the comments. When I have time, I will do a more thorough search.

I was desperately trying to save my September trip to France/Spain. I It wasn't like I didn't try. I spent hours, days planning it. When stats for Spain started to look bad, I actually came up with a France only trip. Now as I think it was Carlos who predicted, Spain is improving and France doesn't seem to look better. I tried to rework a trip for Spain, only, but the logistics were a mess, costing me more miles for a flight, and a super high cost to rent a car. A plus is that I will just do the trip when its not so complicated. It is all planned. I was really committed to this trip. We loved some of the inns and restaurants and wineries we selected. Also, I received notification that the hotel I had planned in Paris upon arrival is temporarily closed, alternatives cost more and the Paris hotel we selected before our return flight has not responded to the email I sent 1 1/2 weeks ago. It is really hard to give up a trip that I was emotionally attached to.

I did go into this eyes wide open and always knew this could happen. It is what it is.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/france/hotel-closings-in-august-for-real

I am so sorry Jules. I know you have done so much planning and hoping for this trip. Unfortunately it is impossible to know what the right thing is to do. I feel for you. I hope things will be better next year and that you (and everyone else!) can move forward more assuredly.

I hope the Paris, then Bordeaux and beyond can happen for you, jules. So the rental car isn’t in question, right? They can still rent it to you? I might have some disinfecting wipes anyway, and wipe down the steering wheel, turn signal lever, etc., but that’s me.

Maybe these wouldn’t be an alternative option, instead of a hotel, but is a gite a possibility? Any B&B, instead of a larger lodging? Or is it not the proprietor’s call, if things possibly got shut down?

Cyn, my concerns are more that I need to stay in a hotel two nights in Paris before taking a train (I purchased TGV tickets in advance) to Bordeaux, so we'd need to have a place to stay in Paris. Also, I looked at the level of COVID cases by area and see that every region in France I want to go, is red, meaning the highest level of COVID. Although I'm vaccinated with what I believe to be one of the better vaccines, I would be worried about contracting COVID in France when my healthcare is in the U.S. Also, right now Spain is a CDC 4, do not travel, and given the state of France, we feel there is a chance that France may be soon classified as CDC 4. Whether me or anyone else feels that is an appropriate designation, the fact for me, is that my insurance is void if I willingly travel to a place where the CDC has advised NO TRAVEL. I also need to be concerned about bringing COVID home to the U.S. where I have frail parents and soon, two infant grandsons. When my husband and I started to discuss travel in March of this year, it seemed that we could travel to France and Spain in September with manageable risk for ourselves and little risk to the people we love. I know it seems counterintuitive, but after discussing this with two epidemiologists we know as well as people in the science field, the type of cruise we are looking at does seem to be safer than the itinerary we planned for France and Spain. I certainly feel this depends on the cruise company, their protocols, and the particular ports of call. In addition to our belief that the cruise better manages our covid risk, the cruise and their protocols and insurance plan better protects us financially.

Jules....if you wanted to hear gloom and doom you've come to right place. Between this board, dubious sensationalistic news stories, and who knows what else you are reading or listening to, they seem to have made you very anxious over this.

One hotel closed so suddenly all hotels in Paris are closed. You hear there are a few false positives on Covid tests and suddenly you are being forced to stay in an expensive hotel and order expensive room service.

Then there's the "I know someone vaccinated who got Covid" response. That, of course, means everyone who has been vaccinated is going to get Covid.

This is classic All or Nothing Thinking

I leave for Europe in nine weeks. I plan to be there for three months. I realize that the situation is fluid and that my plans may have to change before I leave and while I'm there. The decision what to do will not come from anyone's opinion on this board or any internet travel board. I will look at actual facts reported by respected media outlets as well as government websites. If one website reports on something, and no one else picks it up, I question the truth behind it. (I'm a former journalist and understand how sensationalistic reporting works.)

Yes, it's true, the number of Covid cases is increasing in France. But if you look further you'll see that of the new cases, only 4% are those who have been previously vaccinated. (It's only 1% in the USA according to the CDC.)

Let's put this in even more perspective. In France they are averaging 22,200 new cases a day. That's about 33 people for every 100,000. For those vaccinated, that's about 1.5 cases per every 100,000.

In the USA, we're experience an average of 108,000 new cases a day. That's also about 33 people or less than one person per 100,000 who has been vaccinated.

If you wear your mask, wash your hands often or use hand sanitizer, and are careful about being in places that are crowded, your odds have increased of you NOT getting it. And don't forget, France has the pass system where their own citizens not vaccinated will not be able to do many things you will be doing. France almost seems safer than being in the USA.

The final decision is yours and yours alone. You have to weigh the pros and cons of going. It seems as if this trip is very important but it also seems as if the anxiety over it is taking over you.

Hi Frank II, I appreciate your thoughts and the time you took to make them. I have a master's degree, my education mostly focused on analytics. My career experience was mostly health care analysis. I have great resources at my disposal. I have 2 sons with PhDs and are research scientist in fields that relate to COVID and viruses. I have a friend who is a professor at the University of MN in health policy and epidemiology and another family friend is also an epidemiologist.

What I mostly look for and get from the forum is how to get around in Europe, interesting places to eat, stay, and visit beyond what I can get in a guidebook, and on the ground anecdotes on what may be happening in Europe. I appreciate comments on the forum about COVID or other issues, but I don't take them for face value. I do my own research and talk to people I know. There are a whole lot of stats available.

In terms of analyzing risk of COVID or any life choice, one should go beyond the actual probability of an event happening. I am vaccinated. My risk of getting COVID and very sick is extremely low. My risk of getting COVID and being asymptomatic and spreading it to others isn't quite as low. If I do have asymptomatic COVID, there is evidence that I could spread COVID to both my loved ones and people I do not know. We have four frail parents, one with metastatic cancer. We have a grandson who just spent 7 days in a NICU and another grandson on the way. If anyone of those six gets COVID the results could be catastrophic. We also just spent a 1 1/2 years in which we could not spend holidays with family that may not have many holidays left. My point, my downside if I become a carrier for COVID is great.

Now I'm not going to lock myself in a closet with a tv, either. I'm not particularly optimistic about the world getting to herd immunity any time soon. If I was, I wouldn't travel for a while. I have already missed out on almost 2 years of international travel. I didn't have the opportunity to travel beyond North America prior to my mid 50s. Prior to COVID, I was just getting starting. This current trip is actually attempt #3 at an international vacation this year. I had planned for April, flight was cancelled. Planned for end of May and into June. Flight was cancelled.

I appreciate reading about travelers and locals and the actual experience in areas I'm planning to visit. More than one hotel has closed in Paris. Will it continue, everyone has different opinions.

Beyond the health risk of COVID, its important to take into account possible impact on the joy of a planned vacation or financial risk of possible quarantine which might add another 10-14 days that I'd have to stay in Europe and be away from my duties at home as a caregiver. If I have to take time to replan, rebook, etc., it takes time away from my vacation. I don't see myself EVER being able to take a 3 month vacation in Europe. With a vacation that long, there is time to modify plans in response to COVID events.

We just took a car trip to Washington to see grandson, enjoy Seattle and do some camping. I had campground and hotel reservations made. When we arrived, my husband, who is rarely sick, had a moderately bad case of bronchitis, and of course there was a possibility that my daughter and I who had just spent 30 hours traveling with him would catch the bug. It was way too risky for us to hold our 1st grandchild or even spend time with them. We had to modify our plans for our 2 week visit, some days I was spending a 2-3 hours on my phone trying to find a hotel vacancy. It was stressful and that could happen on a trip to Europe in these times. At this point, I'm still going to Europe, I'm just looking for ways to minimize my risk of becoming a carrier and of having to make many time consuming changes during what is supposed to be vacation.

Have to admit I initially thought a river cruise during covid was a little crazy. But ... I booked last year & went ahead with it this year: May-June. We were fully vaxxed, fully masked, tested before & after. Service providers were masked at all times. We had a great trip. No problems. I should add: this was a "boutique" type trip, with only 40 cabins on the ship & sailing at less than full capacity (I estimated 60 passengers). Very little time was spent indoors on the boat (nightly dinners in socially-distanced dining room & some lunches). Shore excursions were in groups of 6-8. Ship crew were willing to bring meals to the cabin for those not wanting to eat in the dining room.

Jules. What is your decision about a river cruise? I don’t see a follow up from you? I respect and tend to agree with all your positive plus your concerning reasonings. We have had an early Oct Viking river cruise booked since spring, beginning in Paris. Still may cancel. Have 4 wks to decide.
For a smaller cruise ship with strict covid protocol…seems the way to cruise now. Less on board also. Not quite the Petri dish as many say? Would I rather be in a hotel with unknown vaccinated statis people or with all vaccinated? Yes I know there will be some concern while on excursions. Will wear masks and we choose to be mostly outside sightseeing.
But this Delta variant shows up in vaccinated…rarely, but does. With more frequent testing on board will it show up more likely? Then you’re off the ship and they have quarantine places for you. They have tried to be as pro-active as possible. They do not want any outbreaks!
Concern also that the surge in Europe and US picks up and possible lockdowns while there? Even with travel insurance, do I want to risk needing it? Since you posted and had asked….I myself am curious if you have booked a cruise. I realize for most on this forum…no way.

We have only done one cruise; a Viking Ocean cruise. It was superb in every way for that type of travel. Ironically, given their comprehensive response to Covid safety it seems that it might be the safest way to travel right now. ( in a “ bubble” of vaccinated and frequently- tested individuals) . I believe they have some of their ocean cruises sailing this fall. Those ships have exceedingly comfortable rooms ( all with a balcony), and a myriad of common spaces to spread out.

I wish you the best in your search.
https://www.vikingcruises.com/oceans/my-trip/health-and-safety/health-and-safety-program.html

I don't have time right now to provide our thinking, I've got some "fires" I'm dealing with. I will provide a more detailed response, but we decided against the cruise, but the decision had little to do with COVID in terms of contracting it. When I can take a breather, I will get back to you all.

Sorry Jules M. Hope you get your fires put out. Your life sounds rather complicated. Thanks for your latest about cruising update. Best wishes for wellness and some peace.

So, I seriously looked at doing an Ocean Cruise with Viking. I got as far as purchasing the airline tickets.

Choosing against the cruise had nothing to do with fears of contracting COVID. In fact, after learning about all their measures to contain any COVID outbreaks, I was feeling pretty comfortable with the idea of doing the cruise. Further, just about everything is taken care of. If passengers test positive any time during the cruise or at the end, Viking has prearranged hotels for quarantine. We didn't need to worry about finding a place to quarantine or how we were going to get meals. Also, if something happens during the cruise in terms of COVID levels at the ports of call, they make any necessary adaptation.

Basically, with the cruise, passengers are part of a bubble and testing is frequent.

I decided against the cruise because of the way excursions are handled. My husband and I have traveled in Europe enough to feel very comfortable venturing out on our own. Our hope was that we could do the ocean cruise much like we did a river cruise. We went on the included excursions and then ventured out on our own to see more. It might be that folks that do the ocean cruise tend to do less at the ports and spend more time on the ship while the river cruises seem to have more extensive included excursions and then many of the passengers do explore on their own. We are just not "sit by the pool" people when there is so much to do at these fabulous ports of call.

In light of COVID, Viking is being very cautious with their excursions. I was told that depending on the perceived risk, passengers may not be allowed to explore on their own. Passengers can pay for the optional tours or stay on the ship. They also couldn't tell me what the specific criteria would be. It sounded like it might be up to each ship and the situation they find themselves in. There was just too much unknown for me and the idea that we might be looking at Greece from the ship was too much.

For us, the cruise was a means to safely travel to places we haven't seen, cruising, itself was never our objective. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a gin and tonic by the pool, but maybe for an hour, not a whole afternoon.

Gotcha Jules M. I too have wondered about their excursions? Have not checked with Viking. We are on the go sightseers also. Lots and lots of walking! We liked how our first river cruise ship just kinda “parked” in a town dock. Felt honestly like part of it. If we are not allowed some freedom we may not enjoy so much. We have done mostly independent travel and yet can do some “sheeplike” tours with guides carrying numbered signs. :) We have also planned some independent time prior in Normandy before cruise. No hotels or tours yet booked.
I so appreciate hearing your thoughts and understand the decision. Hoping France can get out of high-red infection rates in nxt couple wks. Our determining factor.
I understand your decision. Keep on traveling!