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Review / feedback on Wales and England itinerary

I will post this in both the Wales and England forum pages. I'm helping some friends plan a trip to Wales and England for this September/October. They are starting with a week at Oxford at a Smithsonian course. They then have 11 days after, and they want to go to Wales, Liverpool, and London. They have been to London previously but not Wales or Liverpool. They don't want to rent a car. They want to do one primary activity each day, leaving plenty of time to walk, wander, etc. I would love input on the distribution of nights and primary activities selected. Draft is 2 nights Cardiff, 3 nights Conwy, 2 nights Liverpool, 4 nights London. Their primary interest in Liverpool is Beatles sites; and given that the major museums are closed, I reduced the amount of time there (they were originally thinking 3 nights).

  1. Train from Oxford to Cardiff (2 hours, 1 change). Explore Cardiff Castle and town (sleep Cardiff)
  2. Day tour of south Wales, including Caerphilly Castle and Tintern Abbey (https://toursofwales.co.uk/wandering-bard/tours/the-welsh-valleys/) (sleep Cardiff)
  3. Train from Cardiff to Conwy (4-4.5 hours, 0-1 changes). Explore Conwy town and walls, castle, Plas Mawr. (sleep Conwy)
  4. Day tour to Snowdonia (https://www.adventuretoursnowdonia.co.uk/sightseeing-cultural-historical-tours/portmeirion-castles-and-snowdonia-tour/). (sleep Conwy)
  5. Bodnant Gardens (sleep Conwy)
  6. Train from Conwy to Liverpool (2 hours, 1 change). Beatles tour (not sure which one yet). Sleep Liverpool.
  7. National Trust tour of Beatles childhood homes; evening at the Cavern Club. Sleep Liverpool.
  8. Train to London. 3.5 days in London before flying home on day 12.

Thank you in advance for your recommendations!

Posted by
2895 posts

Consider doing this in reverse in order to have the chance of better weather. Another advantage of ending up in Oxford (for the course) is that you are nearer to Heathrow Airport therefore reducing risk of getting return flight. Also see if you are able to get flights to/from Manchester in order to be nearer to Liverpool.

Be sure to visit the historic city of Chester which is just a short hop by local train from Liverpool.

When going from Oxford to Cardiff (change at Didcot Parkway), you may find it cheaper to split the ticket at Swindon.

When in Cardiff, be sure to visit St.Fagans Museum of Welsh Life - about a 30 minute ride west on Cardiff Bus 32 but be sure when the last bus returns as it might be 3pm and the site is very big. No buses on Sundays. You may also wish to visit:> https://museum.wales/cardiff/ and the waterfront 1 mile S of city centre:> https://www.visitcardiffbay.info
Sounds like you will need a day or so longer in Cardiff?

The tours sound good but note that you could go by frequent train for the 20 minute journey to Caerphilly and the return fare is £9 (non Railcard) - retain ticket for *2 for 1 entry to the castle. (The return fare is £6 using tap in /out contactless). The *same applies to Chepstow Castle but it is about a 15 minute walk from the train station and if you wish to go to Tintern, you would have to take a local bus. So, the tour is more convenient and they will tell you stuff and you get to see the roman remains at Caerleon.

Posted by
2891 posts

Day 3 could be a bit tight depending on what time the train gets to Conwy and they probably won’t have chance to do both the castle and Plas Mawr that afternoon. Both close at 5pm with last entry at 4.30. You need to allow at least a couple of hours for each place.

However, Bodnant Garden probably won’t take a full day so that can be used to finish sight seeing in Conwy. (St Mary’s Church is worth a look too if time allows and do tell them to do the walk along the walls.)

Much as I like St Fagan’s Museum oi Welsh life, I can’t see how to fit it in, unless something else is scrapped from the itinerary. You could easily spend a full day there.

Posted by
183 posts

Thank you both , this is helpful! They have already booked their flights so can't reorder the trip, however they haven't booked any accommodation so can add/remove days. The open air museum sounds great, perhaps they would add a day to Cardiff for that and remove one from London.

Posted by
2895 posts

The St.Fagans Museum also has galleries with historic items from various periods. The Castle at St Fagans is currently having repairs and is closed to the public but even if that is still the case in September, it is still well worth seeing everything else at St. Fagans. The Cardiff Bus 32 actually terminates in the car park by the main entrance.

https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/castell-coch is a castle found on a hillside in north Cardiff and is also currently having repairs. This one is a bit more awkward to reach - Stagecoach bus 132 from Greyfriars road in the city centre - NOT the bus station. Get off at Tongwynlais for 20 minute walk up the hill.

When they switch trains at Didcot, they need platform 1 for Cardiff. (Some trains go whizzing though this station at 124mph).

Posted by
614 posts

There is a lot to do in north Wales and England. I would actually concentrate on that rather than trying to see both north and south Wales the same trip. I’ve recently done both five nights in Manchester and Liverpool with Chester daytrip, and then six nights in Manchester (daytrip to Yorkshire Dales with Rabbie’s) and north Wales. Conwy is nice but small and we thought Llandudno was a better base, good seaside town with more accommodations, restaurants and other amenities. We did a tour with the same company you link and it was good — we did the three castles and Snowdonia one. One thing to consider is that the tour starts in Llandudno (or at least it did when we went) and Conwy is one of the stops. We also visited Conwy a second time on our own to see what we hadn’t had time for with the tour (definitely see Plas Mawr as well as castle and use their excellent audio guide) and Bodnant Garden also, reachable by bus from Llandudno (or Conwy) but plan that one carefully as that bus ran only about every two hours. I liked Liverpool a lot even with no personal interest in Beatles sites, and Manchester just as well.

Posted by
5166 posts

I agree with James about St. Fagan's. I also went to Caerphilly Castle and enjoyed it, but if I didn't have time for both, my choice would absolutely be St. Fagan's. Especially since you will probably visit the castle in Conwy. I've been to both castles and one would be enough for me. I would allow at least 4 hours for St. Fagan's. I would have liked to stay longer there, but it was pouring rain and you also have to pay attention to when the schedule for the bus back to Cardiff.