Visa PIN----a quick report

This is about a credit card...not to be confused with an ATM/debit card.

At the CDG in Paris we purchased the train ticket into the city with our CC w/chip. And it appeared to us that the system recognized that we are a chip card without pin, so it just processed it. We had no problem and just had to sign when we were using the card. The vendors or restaurants had no issues. And if they didn't want to worry about CC they only took cash..

Yes---a regular credit card, not debit/ATM card.

For ticket machines in Switzerland and Germany, we have previously used a debit card when a PIN was required.

In Italy, the machine would process the transaction with a chip Visa card without asking for a PIN. So I guess it varies.

I think in some places the machine recognizes a "foreign" credit card number and forgoes the PIN requirement.

I'm curious why you say you would never use your signature Visa card to get cash out of an ATM?

It's not smart to use a credit card to get cash from an ATM, unless it was an emergency, because that is considered a "cash advance". Cash advances have no grace period, and they start accruing interest (at a much higher rate than your normal interest rate) immediately.

Lola--that is exactly how the Andrews Visa card has always worked. Glad B of A caught up.

This is consistent with other reports when using a chip card at an unmanned kiosk or POS. The possiblilities for people tend to be:

• You have a PIN assigned to you, you use it, it works fine.
• You have no PIN assigned, and when prompted, you enter any four digit# or your cash advance PIN, and it works fine.
• You are not prompted to enter a PIN, and the transaction goes through (Likely because the dollar amount of the transaction was less than a pres-assigned minimum (sometimes $25, sometimes $50)
• The sale does not work

Thanks for the info regarding not using my Visa for cash. Heading to Montreal soon and am having an issue with my credit union. Seems like my only option is to use my Visa...yuck. Thank you though-I appreciate the feedback!

A credit card (or debit card) can only have one PIN assigned to it at any one time (which depending on the card type may or may not be changeable). So there is no "cash advance PIN" and a "POS purchase PIN". It is the same value. The difference is only in the type of transaction. Any Credit Card transaction that ends up with you getting cash (or cash equivalent) is a cash advance and is treated as such. This would be ATM withdrawals as well as paying for a foreign exchange transaction at an exchange booth and even buying Traveler Cheques with a credit card. Buying a train ticket, paying for dinner, renting a car, or anything else is a POS purchase and will NEVER be billed as a cash advance when the credit card PIN is used.

It is good to see that at least one bank understands that a PIN is useful to their credit card customers traveling to Europe and no longer lie to you that if you use a PIN the transaction will default to a cash advance.

Mark, I don't know if you were writing too fast, but your fifth sentence is wrong. Many commercial banks now issue Debit cards instead of ATM cards, and they are used for POS transactions as well as to make ACCOUNT withdrawals at ATMs - which are NOT "cash advances." The previous exchange was about getting a cash advance at an ATM by using a revolving credit card, which would, indeed, be a cash advance. Vocabulary is very important here.

...and in my post I did use the term "Cash Advance PIN" but to indicate a PIN that is issued or set up with a credit card, but intended only for a cash ATM transaction, not for a POS transaction as in "Chip and PIN". In the case of a true Chip and PIN, your PIN is the same for both POS and Cash Advance and there is no difference. My point in the post was that when prompted at a POS for a PIN, many report just using their PIN that was issued for Cash Advances, and it worked, but then perhaps any four digit number would work, as also as has been reported.

It is also correct that the circumstance of the transaction determines how the transaction is processed...receiving cash, cash advance, receiving merchandise or services, a purchase. In many past posts people were erroneously advised to never put in a PIN that was intended for Cash Advance, lest the transaction be processed as such. This is not a real concern.

Tim,

Yes, I left out a few important words and punctuation originally. I have edited that posting to hopefully clarify what I meant. Thanks for pointing this out.

Paul,

Some (many) banks still claim that the PIN they give you on a chip & signature type card is only to be used for cash advances. That is true in the US where you will never be asked for a PIN on a credit card unless you are doing a cash advance at an ATM, but in the rest of the world it is no longer the truth with true chip & PIN credit cards and systems set up to require a PIN. US banks have a very US oriented view of things and answer questions you ask them in a way that reflects that view even when you specifically ask about foreign card usage. But you really can't blame them as only a very small fraction of a percent of their customers will ever even leave the US. Answering the questions with an "it depends" type of answer would only confuse many customers.