Credit Card pin # never needed?

I have never been to Poland, but have visited the other three countries you mentioned plus a dozen others in Europe. I have never needed a PIN to use my credit card for purchases. If you had an emergency and needed to get a cash advance on your cc, you probably would need a PIN. More recently I have been paying for things using the tap method on my credit card and it only takes one or two seconds - no signature required.

Our main concern is using our credit card to buy tickets at unoccupied public transportation (train, tram, public bus) ticket machines, which we've been told sometimes do require a pin number. Old news? I'm hesitant to use our debit card anywhere but at a bank ATM machine.

I just ran into Rick's PIN reminder in a Greek Guide. I haven't been to Greece (or Poland or the Czech Republic), but have been in most other Western European countries, Australia, New Zealand, and multiple Asian countries. I have never had to input a PIN number even in public transit ticket machines.

I wish Rick would give specifics as to where he has used one recently. I think his warning may be out-of-date.

I'd be most interested in learning of anyone's contrary experiences!

Last March we were unable to buy train tickets from a machine in Bologna ( Italy) because a PIN was required. We could buy them from the agent at a window in the station, or online. Just not from the machine.

For most US cards, you either can not get a PIN, or it will only be for a cash advance at an ATM. If they say you can't get a number, then you really can not, pushing won't help, they just do not have the capability.

Will you need it? Most of the time, no. There will be someone there to print out a slip to have you sign. If Tap to Pay is offered (usually is in much of Europe) then there is not much of a need for a PIN for purchases under 50-100 euros.

However, yes, at unmanned kiosks, with no tap capability, you might have a problem.

I do have a US credit card that has a PIN, and is PIN priority. On my last trip to the UK, and the previous trip to Spain, I maybe had to input the PIN a half dozen times, once was at a ticket machine, the others were cases where a slip would have printed out if I had used another card.

Not the 4 countries you mention, but in Scotland and Italy we’ve been unable to get gas at a self-serve pump without a P.I.N.

Also, just now researching car rental in Norway, and apparently Hertz has several unmanned rental locations where you use a self-service kiosk when picking up the car. Imagine not having a human to acknowledge any preexisting damage to the rental car before you drive off in it! Anyway, Hertz specifically says a credit card with a chip and a 4-digit P.I.N. are required to obtain a car at those kiosk locations. I haven’t gotten the P.I.N. yet, but I can’t imagine VISA would refuse a customer that they wanted to keep.

In some countries, small transit purchases don't demand a PIN. I bought my Krakow transit pass at a human office, with a waiting line. Look at the machine and see if it has the Tap To Pay symbol; that might work, or Apple Phone pay. Last resort, Debit Card for bank account with 4-digit PIN.

If your bank does not market PIN-priority cards, they can't give you one. I went to a Credit Union, but that has its own problems. Their technology and business is mired in about 1970, except for the PIN card! And I have a savings account I don't want, with a lower interest rate so it won't have low usage fees.

Yes you do. You won’t need a PIN code for your credit card often, but when you do, you really do! We have been to Sweden, Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We needed our PIN code as soon as we go to Munich at the train station when we had to buy our train tickets from their kiosk. We also needed our PIN code when we bought gas at a gas station in Sweden. It is very stressful when you want to buy your train ticket and you cannot without your PIN code…. You can request your PIN code online with your credit card company. It is necessary.

Perhaps open a new account with a different bank that will give you. P.I.N. number.
You will need it at unmanned stations etc.
Not everywhere has a tap function for payment.

I have traveled to many European countries and I have never had to use a PIN, especially in the last 5+ years. Everything is tap and pay. I would suggest bringing more than one credit card just to be safe, though.

We needed a PIN number to buy gas (in Italy) and train tickets from a kiosk (in Germany) in June this year. This is not old news.

The German train ticket machines wanted a pin# to buy tickets last April, 2022. We then downloaded the app and set up an account, and bought tickets directly from the app, no problems. You can use cash as the machines, but the machines don't like to give a lot of change, so will often refuse a 20 euro note.
Good luck and have a great trip!

Your credit card company is dead wrong pertaining to Germany.

One of the mistakes made on this trip was that i neglected to check if any of my 3 credit cards on the trip had a PIN, ie, did I get that set up when I got the card. No, I didn't.

Therefore, with some of DB ticket machines ,ie, those without the "tap" feature, when you pay , if by credit card, it has to be inserted. Once inserted, the little scene asks for the PIN, without which your transaction will not be completed. This was in June/July. So, I had to go to a "tap" ticket machine, ie wait for that one to be available, meaning more time wasted.

If your company absolutely refuses you a PIN, it's time to use another cc. I would tell them quite clearly that you will use another credit card that does not deny you a PIN. Exactly, I told BofA that when it blocked my Visa card in France....more nuisance one does not need.

Now, all 3 credit cards I bring are equipped with a PIN.

Perhaps open a new account with a different bank that will give you.
P.I.N. number.

Yes.

Signatures are on the way out. My latest set of credit cards that I got from my (Swiss) bank does not even contain a space on the card anymore to put my signature. Previously I still was instructed to sign the cards as soon as I got them, but I had not been requested to sign a slip in a long time. It is obvious that I will no longer have to sign anything from now on.
(The cards are also no longer embossed with the number, which means they take up less space. A good thing).

I see it here in Wengen time and time again that a tourist uses on of the self checkout lanes at the coop, tries to pay by credit card, and then some staff member needs to rush over to go and hand them a pen to sign the slip, holding up the queues for everyone. I think that if you do not get as PIN you may increasingly be just denied service in the future.

Many younger Europeans have never had to put a signature down on a CC slip, so will be puzzled/challenged by the procedure when it does turn up with an American tourist. To give you an idea how different Europe is: I can remember my parents suing cheques, but I have never used a cheque in my life and I am in my 50ies...

We needed ours in Sicily in April to buy gas. Having one really came in handy!

I know it is not the country you asked about, but in Britain where the tap limit is £100, you will get the cc machines randomly asking for your pin. I believe it is so they can it is you. So I would always want a pin.

There are very few sources of real PIN-equipped credit cards in the US. The PIN you (may) get if you request one for an existing card will probably be only for cash advances. If you think you're OK because you recently managed to get a PIN for a legacy credit card, you may have an unpleasant surprise when you try to use the card in Europe at a vending machine. Smaller purchases may be fine. There have been reports in the past that sometimes just waiting when you see a PIN prompt will work out, or perhaps entering some random 4-digit number.

Note to Europeans: Our world is different from yours, unfortunately.

Imagine not having a human to acknowledge any preexisting damage to the rental car before you drive off in it!

The Hertz @ Sacramento airport is essentially this. We had a chipped windshield at rental and were told by the person there that there’s no way to declare or record damage at the time of rental.

Note that I am really missing a contactless credit card in Europe now. I considered requesting one in advance but forgot. It’s signatures everywhere. Using an app will prevent needing a PIN, for transportation. I have a contactless card to use in a pinch but it doesn’t give a cash rebate, just avios.

Last resort, Debit Card for bank account with 4-digit PIN.

I have done this in Norway. A debit card will save you. I don’t worry about PINs for credit cards, can function fine without.

Sorry the advice is not coalescing. Most do fine without a CC PIN.

I find that fairly frequently in Germany after tapping my (English) card it further required entering the PIN. MOst recently was at a MediaMarkt for about 8€.

It might be a good idea to use ApplePay as much as possible. No contactless limit and no PIN. Some ticket machines may not be contactless enabled but that’s becoming less common.

@Paul wrote:

For most US cards, you either can not get a PIN, or it will only be for a cash advance at an ATM. If they say you can't get a number, then you really can not, pushing won't help, they just do not have the capability.

Will you need it? Most of the time, no. There will be someone there to print out a slip to have you sign. If Tap to Pay is offered (usually is in much of Europe) then there is not much of a need for a PIN for purchases under 50-100 euros.

However, yes, at unmanned kiosks, with no tap capability, you might have a problem.

I do have a US credit card that has a PIN, and is PIN priority. On my last trip to the UK, and the previous trip to Spain, I maybe had to input the PIN a half dozen times, once was at a ticket machine, the others were cases where a slip would have printed out if I had used another card.

I agree that there is no use pushing when the credit card company cannot offer one. I believe it's a technological issue, not a result of just refusal by the company. The credit cards issued in the US are typically Chip-and-Signature, not Chip-and-PIN.

I have 2 credit cards, one from Apple/Goldman Sachs and another from Chase. I asked both companies and they say the card does NOT have a PIN and one cannot be assigned. They offered this tip which may or may not be helpful: that if a PIN is being requested, let the vendor know that the card should be run as a credit card. It was curious advice, but the customer rep's implication is that when a PIN is being asked for when your non-PIN card is being used, the merchant may have run the card as a debit card.

I did hear that other potential ways to skip the PIN request is to try to Cancel and some times you can proceed to the next screen. Or, type in 0000 and see if you can proceed. I know this feels like a guessing game. It's too bad...

I got a credit card with a PIN here.
https://www.andrewsfcu.org/Cards/Personal-Credit-Cards/View-All-Cards

Pretty much anyone can join Andrews Federal Credit Union.

My credit cards all have a PIN which must be used anytime the card is inserted into a POS terminal. I never use my credit cards for Tap transactions either at home or in Europe, but I'm sure they will work. However, they have a dollar limit each day (the daily limit is much higher if the PIN is used). I've never had any issues with cards at any time in Europe.

Unfortunately, most US credit cards are not like Ken's Canadian cards.

The Andrews Federal Credit Union is a rare exception.

Attached is a link that explains Chip and PIN cards in the US better, including a list of institutions that offer them.

https://moneytips.com/best-chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

A couple caveats though:

-Places like BoA, Citi, US Bank, and Wells Fargo offer PIN cards, but that does not mean your existing card can get a PIN. These places offers a whole range of cards, so if you bank at Wells Fargo, want a PIN card, it likely means you may need to change cards, and possibly go to a premium option, often with an annual fee.

-While the card may have a PIN, there is a system of ranking called CVM for the card, and a similar ranking by the card processor. Long story short, many of these US cards still have "Signature" ranked first, so if the vendor allows signature, you will still have to sign. At an unmanned kiosk, since signature can't be an option, then you would use your PIN. You would need to have a PIN priority card to always be prompted to enter a PIN when needed.

If you whittle the list down to Chip and PIN cards where PIN is priority, then it goes from several dozen to 2 or 3.

As others have said, use of contactless, including Apple/Google Pay, has reduced the need for a PIN greatly, just not all amounts and not all pay points are contactless.

@Paul, thanks for the link to that article that discussed Chip-and-PIN credit cards in the US. I did not realize that PenFed CU, of which I'm a member, offers chip-and-PIN, so I'm getting one ;-) Ha! And the good thing too is that most of their credit cards have no foreign transaction fees!

In Germany when asked for a pin# at the train station machine, we canceled the transaction attempt, and found we could buy all the tickets we needed from the DBNavigator app, which worked perfectly. We just set up an account on the app. Good luck !

I recently saw a BBC show talking about the evolution of modern credit cards and PINs. VERY informative.

I screwed up entering my pin recently in Scotland, had the PIN locked out by my bank, but thankfully was still able to tap. Sometimes however, tap doesn't want to work for whatever reason, and then what? Cash or your spare card.

A modern chip card will change the code it leaves on the machine every time you use that feature, making it very secure. In other words, someone can record your information on the terminal, but can't use it again because that code is now invalid, after the original transaction.

Your bank can set up a PIN, but it needs to be done in person.

I'm with Sam, I specifically got a card from Andrews FCU a few years ago because they had the type of PIN you need in Europe. But it isn't always asked for, except that one time ... I took a taxi to CDG and the driver's credit card machine kept rejecting all the cards my wife and I offered. I finally pulled out the Andrews card and entered the PIN and ... voila.

As noted, this is NOT the PIN that your current credit card company will give you if you call and ask for one - that is only used for taking money out of ATMs at very high cash advance rates. A quick Google will give you a list of companies that are still issuing the TRUE PIN you need in Europe.

Although on my last few trips it was all tap to pay which is a godsend.

I lost my debit card in Germany and thankfully had a backup credit card. Also thankful that I had created a PIN for it in advance and was able to use it at an ATM to withdraw cash.