Packing Light....or Really Trying

Was the weather different? It's much easier to pack light for a warm destination. Did you pack more shoes this time? Can you leave some toiletries at home and buy them when you get there?

Check your quantity of electronics and misc. That’s where I had to pare back.

Can you recreate you original list of what you brought last time? That might help as a starting point as you look through items. Good idea to start early just as a trial run! Anything that won’t be worn at least four times doesn’t make the final list, etc.

Is this tour longer? Are you packing more because of that.

For the future, I keep a list of what I usually take and tweek it depending on time of year and destinations. Shoes can be a big problem. I wear one pair, pack a second lighter weight pair. Strip down what you are packing, put it all out on a bed. See if each piece is worthy to be included.

Anyone else running into this problem?

Actually I took less on my 2nd trip. Do not mean to rub it in, but the 1st trip proved to be a learning experience and discovered there were some things I really did not need, or needed fewer in number.

Good thing you are doing your test packing ahead and have time to thoughtfully weed out the unnecessary stuff.

Here are some ways to check and lighten loads

• How many shoes? Two is optimal, no more than three
• How much electronics? Can you consolidate chargers?
• How much packaging? Do you have a case/folder/bag for each item? That weight adds up. Use zip locks to lighten things. Also try to consolidate items into fewer bags
• No more than 4-5 tops and 2-3 bottoms.
• How much paper and books? Can you move those items into electronic storage via your phone or the cloud?
• Are you taking heavy clothing? Ditch heavy sweaters for light weight ones. Ditch fleece for puff jackets. Ditch jeans for synthetic or linen pants.
• How much liquid product? Are you taking 3.4 oz when you only need 1 oz?

Did you take a large personal item last time that some of your stuff went into? Or did the size of that bag change? I think I actually take more stuff, but smarter stuff. More tops, less bottoms. More accessories to make outfits look different, add a belt and scarf and different tank top and viola, new outfit! I actually lost my long thin basic black sweater last trip, and because I only took one, some of my planned outfits went out the door, and my plan to cover my fat arms also did not happen, so now I take two. By all means, do not expand the case!! LOL..

Take everything out, spread it on a flat surface then you can re-evaluate and try to figure It out. I have had to do this on all my trips, first run is everything I want to take. Second run is elimination, which I agonize over and second guess myself. In the end it all works out!

Well, if you want to open yourself to getting picked apart, feel free to post your packing list! You know we all are dying to weigh (hahahha) in on it!

I did a trial run Saturday because I have some new packing cubes I wanted to try. I was surprised I am under 20#. I expect it will be another 2-3# when I finish up with paperwork etc. I was shocked it was that low! I am taking the same clothes I've taken the last 2 times but it's somehow lighter?!?

One tip I read recently is to remove one item from each category--tops, bottoms, socks, undies, etc. Every little bit lightens your load. Happy travels!

Our last trip was a 14-day tour plus a few extra days on our own, and for the most part, we were prepared for the sometimes freezing temps to very warm by the time we got to Rome.

This year, we'll be on the 14-day Athens & Heart of Greece Tour, and we'll spend a little time on Santorini afterwards. Right now, the forecast says temps will range from the 40s to mid/upper 70s, with most days averaging with highs of mid/upper 60s. Most days sunny or partly cloudy with a few days of rain. I keep hearing that the sun in Greece can be pretty intense and to bring our own sunscreen, because it's really expensive over there.

I picked clothes that can be layered, mixed and matched, and are easy to clean and dry. Only two pairs of shoes - my sneakers and a pair of sandals that'll go in my suitcase. Using the same suitcase I used last time, too.

I started going through my stuff again and pulled a few items of clothing out. I could probably whittle it down more. I think I have a few too many toiletries, too. I pulled out a few things I can live without for a few weeks. But of the ones I'm keeping, I made sure to use 1.25-oz bottles vs. 3.

Certain things like my contact lenses, medication, etc., will go in my purse. But I also have Lysol wipes, hand wipes. My electronics really don't take up much space - they'll be in my day pack, too. I'll bring my phone, charger, earbuds, and my point and shoot camera w/ charger, couple extra batteries & SD card.

As far as books go, we have a lot of stuff in PDF format. But the biggest book we're bringing is the RS Athens & Peloponnese. The other two are Pocket Athens & a Greek phrasebook.

A lot of the little things seem to be adding up: our quart-size Ziploc with our laundry stuff (clothes line, a few clothes pins, a small Go Toob full of detergent). Small sewing kit, First Aid kit (really just Band-aids and Neosporin), a quick-dry towel, power adapters, small crossover purse. I think DH will have to keep some of this stuff in his carryon, lol!

Working on it! Unfortunately, I didn't keep a list of what I packed the last time. I'll have to remember to keep a copy of my list after this trip, haha!

Thank you, everyone for all the great tips!

For what it is worth, I have never taken a clothes line or clothes pins. We just used hangers or hung things around and never did go to a laundromat. We were last in Italy which is dry like Greece. It worked just fine.

I also have never taken a sewing kit and have never wished I had one.

Never brought Lysol wipes either.

Sounds like you are bringing two purses. I bring a light weight backpack and then a small cross over purse. I don't bring my wallet either but rather take an atm card, and two credit cards. My cross over purse has three pockets and I put cards in one, money in another, and my phone in the third.

Beth

Check the guide books and see if there is a page or 3 of phrases. The phrase book may be an item to leave behind. We did the 14 day Greece tour and managed nicely without a separate phrase book.

Whittle down the chargers as much as possible. Not everything has to be charging all at the same time.

If you have a braided clothes line ( like the RS type) you can do without clothes pins. Everything can be held in the webbing

Powdered detergent in a ziplock may pack smaller than liquid in a 'go toob'

And remember you will be wearing one change of clothes!

Good luck packing--- its a WONDERFUL tour

Well, your next assignment can be to work on a master list for packing.

I do mine on Excel with:

-a page for my toiletries, chargers, laundry stuff, money, passport, everything but clothes
-a page for my clothes - separated into In Transit/Tops/bottoms/unders/outerwear/shoes/accessories
-a page with my countdown list for 1 month/2 weeks/1 week/24 hour items to cross off. I also often travel in Sept to I have reminders for what infrequent bills come due in Sept (Costco dues, Car insurance, lol!!)

I did wind up packing too light last April. At the last minute I took out my long sleeve shirt to bring the weight down, then when we landed the pilot announced it was 33F at the airport. Even with my waterproof layer, cardigan and scarf over my SS Tee I was cold. I won't take out the long sleeve shirt again!

It sounds like you have pared down pretty well!

It sounds like you have pared down pretty well!

Yes Pam, it sounds like you have. Living in Idaho, you have probably learned how to layer.

I think somewhere in one of Rick's books, I think maybe "Europe through the Back Door", he says that he packs the same for three days in Europe as he does for a summer. So do I.

Here in Denver, I wear basically the same wardrobe all year long. Several pairs of jeans, alternated, and 3 or 4 tee-shirts - nothing different unless I go out somewhere special. If it's cold, I put on a sweater or wear a warmer jacket. I do the same in Europe except I've selected cotton/polyester blend shirts and underwear that dries reliably overnight, and I take a few less clothes and sink-wash more often.

It happens. Every trip I try to pack lighter and then on first pack the suitcase is too heavy -- that's when it's time to purge !! Usually it's the "what if" items.

I recently came across some packing lists from my Italy trips in the early 2000's ...
Packing lists are easy to save (in my "travel boxes") although at some point it makes sense to discard them. (I don't have one wardrobe item anymore from those lists, and they were also pre-electronics!)
I am wondering why you want to pack both the general Greek book and Pocket Athens. Perhaps you can look through Pocket and add notes in the margins to the general book. Or. if you really want all the specific information, buy the e-edition instead.
As Pam, I think, said, if you want to 'fess up and post your actual packing as of now, we can help you pare it down with more specifics.
For what it's worth, I'm also having a harder time packing light, and I've been to Europe about 15 times and am a firm believer.

We recently did a non-RS trip to Morocco. We had originally packed well, dividing clothes between his suitcase and mine. A last minute change meant that we had to shift things, and I - rather foolishly - put almost of all of my clothes in the one, checked bag with our larger liquids, scissors, corkscrew, etc.

Long story short - the checked bag didn't reach us for 7 days. I had thought to pack all my clean underwear, socks & one spare shirt in my carry on bag.

This gave me a whole new perspective of packing light. ;-)

My suggestion - if you're not planning to wear something at least three times? Take it out of the suitcase. And if you're in a country where women's clothing in your size is readily available, you can always pick up something extra if you need another shirt, sweater, etc.

I'll add my comment on the books.....cut them up. ...and do you need the full Athens guide as well as the Athens section of the main guide? RS store sells (or used to sell) a vinyl cover with spine clip that fits his book size to do just what I suggested. However, being I am in Canada, I made my own as I still have vinul report covers and spine covers around from children's school projects. I just cut them down to fit guide book. I discarded city chapters as I departed said cityi also don't use a clothes line, but do keep a few pegs.

I think you will find you will juggle items in and out of your suitcase as you prepare and test. I, too, keep a packing list. This is the RS tour that I took, last spring. It was absolutely wonderful! I took it in March so the weather was cooler than yours, but warmer than I expected.

My lessons learned from my packing: Be careful about last minute removals.
1. pack two pairs of bottoms (at least). I had only packed one pair, as I pulled the second pair out last minute to save, what, 18 ounces? The afternoon before the tour I ripped one of my bottoms(jeans), rather severely, bringing my total down to wear one, wash one. Once leaving Athens, I'd say there would not be much chance/place of clothes shopping until maybe Napflio.
2. Don't take that sewing kit out of your bag because you never use it. That's what I did at the last moment. See #1 for why.
--That being said, I met a couple of lovely Greek ladies while I shopped for another pair of pants the afternoon of the start of the tour. I begged enough sewing kits at the hotel to repair the very ripped black jeans, temporarily. I threw them out before I left Athens for home on the return trip. Not sure if anyone noticed my repairs, but I couldn't see the spots so just pretended they weren't there... So again, be careful about spur of the moment, last minute removals.

Do NOT take your own sunscreen. Theirs is much better! We took that tour in 2014 and bought the kids 50 spf in a pharmacy in the airport and while you may consider it pricey for sunscreen it will save your skin much better than almost anything you can find here. Everybody on the tour kept asking us how we were keeping our skin so good with how active and out in the sun we were, and this is the answer. Buy it over there.

Every trip my bag gets lighter. And every trip, I bring home clothes I didn't wear.
Start by taking an ultra light bag. That is a way to save 2-3 lbs.
I can wear jeans and even khaki pants for days on end if they are heavily starched by the cleaners. That allows me to leave 2 pairs of slacks home.
A second pair of shoes is out, especially since I wear a size 15 shoe.
I long ago retired my 17 inch laptop from travel and now use a Fire 8 tablet--$40 on sale.
I carry 5-7 golf shirts and rotate them daily. Hopefully by the third week, we stay somewhere there is a washing machine. I don't carry my newest underwear--leaving some behind as we go.
We usually travel in the warmer climates of Europe-in the South. I can then travel with lighter clothing.
We leave Sunday on a repositioning cruise ending in Southampton. Then we fly to Ireland for an auto tour. Traveling lighter has never been more important because we are taking a lightweight wheelchair since my wife recently had a knee injury. We will make is just fine, however.

DO TAKE your own sunscreen...this saved us on out last trip to Europe in the summer. The last thing we wanted was to have a reaction (rash) to some unknown ingredient, stain our clothes, be too greasy, melt off our faces in the sun etc. My husband (he is very fair) has to have Neutrogena Ultra-sheer Dry Touch SPF 50, it's non-greasy, PABA free and stays on all day and not thick. Costco sells a double pack of 3.0 oz and we take both tubes. I have done the "buy the product there" and landed up wondering around pharmacies not knowing what was in the product, if it was greasy, is it non-comedogentic and actually wasted time. The only place I do hard core pharmacy shopping is in Paris and it is an actual planned event, but I have done my research on products and what is in them and I know ahead of time what I am looking to buy. Just my .02 on my personal experience.

Before relying on shopping 'away', keep in mind any allergies or sensitivities to product, preferences for products (as US name brands cost a fortune overseas), whether you like shopping on your vacation and want to commit the time and effort, if you are okay with throwing away barely used items in order to not bring it home, or if you are of a size or shape that is easy to shop for.
For all these reasons, I bring everything I need from home despite the extra pound or two. I often tend to return with 'carry on only' due to my routings and the need to be available for standby flights....though I might check the bag leaving home.
I suspect the easiest way for me to reduce travel weight is with newer luggage makes that are lighter, though I keep in mind and try to replace my binocs, tablet and camera with lighter/smaller models. This reduced 5 pounds on my last trip...at a cost, of course.
keeping your travel lists will be a big help. I also make notes on it when I return home to list what I didn't use, or what I needed more of.

There is no try, there is only do.

Over the years I have arrived at a standard pile of things I take with me to Europe. It weighs 16.5 pounds, not counting the bag to carry it in. I add a couple warmer things in the winter and still stay below 18 pounds. My standard carry on bag weighs 2 pounds (no wheels).

I discovered early on that I don't need a wide variety of clothes when traveling. This means I do laundry at least every 10 days on the trip at a laundry never in the sink. Most of what I carry is quick dry golf shirts and khaki pants.

I carry only a cell phone to handle all my email and internet browsing now. It has also replaced my alarm clock and flashlight. Only thing I can't do is print from it, but the hotels are usually happy to let me do so from their computers for the little I need.

My medical needs have added some to what I carry. I have gotten the pharmacy to provide smaller bottles with the appropriate labels for those prescriptions I get in 90 day amounts so I can take the smaller bottle with just enough medicine for the trip. I have bought super compact medical devices (sometimes at a much higher cost) that run on batteries for the ones I have to have with me.

It all comes together.

Much easier for men to pack light than for women.

My wife accessorizes with scarfs and such and is not hung up on having many pairs of shoes. She packs very light. As for what not to bring I would argue do not bring sunscreen. Yes, US brands are very expensive. Branch out! We like then La Roche-Posay brand. It’s available in the states but the EU version is better. Here is an article on EU sunscreens https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/report/does-europe-have-better-sunscreens/#.Wsz_uFpuihA. We love to shop for toiletries in Europe aside from deodorant which can be pretty allergenic if not the one we use regularly-learned the hard way.

Ok, in order to go light on the clothes you first need a core wardrobe. A core wardrobe ensures that you can handle all temperatures and situations. I’ve written about this on my blog but I’ll share it here:

CORE ESSENTIALS

• light weight long pants. Better if they roll into capris
• light weight long sleeve shirt. Better if it has roll up sleeves
• cardigan or equivalent
• dressy top (short sleeve)
• packable waterproof raincoat
• 3/4 sleeve silk undershirt.
• walking shoes
• dress shoes
• (optional) a skirt or dress
• scarf
• day bag

The above list will take you through all weather. Wear the dressy top over the silk undershirt and under the cardigan for warmth. Layer up as needed.

From this point on the rest of your clothes add variety but not function. Add tops or bottoms for more outfits. Some things, like a puff jacket, will extend your temperature range. Leggings also extend range. Make sure all the tops go with all the bottoms.

VARIETY PIECES

• a nice tee
• a second dressy top
• an extra sweater
• a second pair of pants
• wild card item

So go make a core. Then decide how many more items you need.

If you go beyond this list it is just “extra”

I’ve had some fairly severe reactions to sunscreen.
Bring a familiar one from home. The time and effort needed to get to a doctor is not worth it.

I’m w Letizia and Cindy on bringing sunscreen. Many of them stain your clothes. Made that mistake years ago and regretted it. A lot of our clothes got stained and had to be thrown out. Nice, expensive clothes.

Much easier for men to pack light than for women.

Bras don't weight that much. It's only because women think they need more stuff than men do.

The first time I took my current partner to Germany, I loaned her my OPEC bag, which weighed a pound less that the old ETBD convertible bag I used, but she packed at least a pound less than I did. It can be done.

Bras don't weight that much. It's only because women think they need more stuff than men do.

Not exactly true. Women have expectations placed on them due to social norms. And we are penalized if we don’t meet those norms. So we meet the norms because we don’t like getting hassled and disrespected.

So we need to carry makeup

And hair product for our (socially required) longer hair

And a pair of dress shoes to go with the dress

And some jewelry

We can still travel light though, it’s just a little trickier.

What Cindy said. And feminine hygiene products... I do not want to take precious time shopping for what I need when I’m there. I also need to take my lightweight French blow dryer. I have extremely difficult hair.

Much easier for men. By far. Imo.

Not everyone wants to pack like you do Lee... : )

Wow! Thank you, everyone for all the wonderful responses & helpful tips!

Okay, so in response to some of your comments...

Regarding purses, I only have the daypack, which I'll use on most days during the tour. Then I have a small, flat crossover purse, which largest dimensions are no bigger than half a sheet of paper.

Thanks for all the sunscreen info! I've had an allergic reaction to sunscreen before, too. It was in Hawaii, no less, and I was covered with hives. The sunscreen I have on hand now is the La Roche Posay brand. We used it before, and no weird reactions to it, thank goodness.

The clothesline we have rolls ups into an attached pouch which is less than 3 x 3". I suppose that we don't need the pins as much, but they came in handy last time.

As far as books, we have a couple RS binder covers. I'm not taking Through the Back Door, but I'm bringing the big Athens book, which is specific to the tour, only because I'm not sure what we'll need while there. On our last tour, our guide often referred to it, and it was nice to have on hand.

As for clothes, I'm only taking two pairs of shoes: sneakers and sandals. I have a pair of lightweight pants that roll up, a pair of capris, and a pair of jeans. I think I need to lessen the number of tops, though. I have 2 tees, 3 long sleeves, and 2 cardigans. One dress. Unfortunately, I don't have a puffer jacket, only fleece, which I normally wear on the plane. Although I keep wavering over which jacket to bring - heavier waterproof shell or something lighter. I can wear my fleece under either one. I also have a couple scarves to change things up. My biggest concern is the weather swinging from hot to cold.

Big thanks to Cindy H & Susan. I second your sentiments. Very true, ladies, very true!

I don't take any makeup, dressy shoes or hair products (well, not exactly true as I take a travel curling iron). My first trip I took a skirt that I never wore. Have never taken one again. I take lightweight pants that work for hiking or nice restaurant, 2 tshirts, 2 short sleeve button ups and one long sleeve button up. Pretty sure my husband and I take the same amount of clothing.

I also think it depends on where you’re going and if you’ll be visiting with friends / family. If you’re going to Germany, let’s say, and seeing no one you know, then REI type clothes and only 2 “outfits” are fine.
If you’re going to Paris, visiting friends / family for several weeks, you need nicer clothes and at least 4-5 “outfits”. At least I do.

Plumeria, I think you’re doing a good job!

I also agree with packing at least some sunscreen, particularly because I have found it hard to locate high SPF (for my super burnable skin) in Europe. I also have a sensitivity to scented lotions - I lucked out in Germany a few years ago and found something that worked, but I had the opposite experience in Italy (and boy did I have a rash in payment!)

Re: clothes - are you really sure you need a fleece and two cardigans? I'd opt for the lightweight rain jacket as the thing you'll need most, and layer up on the plane (wear one long sleeve shirt over a tshirt and a cardigan). Pack a lightweight tank/cami that you can layer under your outfit on "cold" days, and wear alone if it's a "hot" day. As was mentioned earlier, pack a capsule wardrobe so everything goes together. Check the Vivienne Files for examples.

As for the guidebook, you can slice up your Athens book and remove the introduction (read it before you go), index, and any of the chapters you're sure you won't need. Have it rebound with a comb binding at your local office supply store (like Kinkos or FedEx). That will shave off some ounces.

All that said, I'm still working on perfecting my packing - after 15 years of traveling, every trip it gets better but I still take too much and things I didn't end up needing. So don't beat yourself up, just keep at it! Perfection is the enemy of progress.

I can help pare down the coats, cardigans, and long sleeve tops. One September we were going to travel from Switzerland to Rome, and the forecast for Switzerland was cold. I packed a long-sleeve cotton tee, a microfiber thermal shirt, a Columbia lightweight raincoat, and a black cardigan. On the coldest two days, I wore all of them, along with a pair of grocery store tights under my pants. The rest of the time I could wear tops I planned for Italy with the cardigan or the nicer long sleeve top I brought for evenings in Italy. The microfiber thermal shirt was black with a scooped neck, so it worked as an evening shirt in Italy with my scarf.

I can get cold on a plane, and the cardigan w/ Columbia raincoat is plenty to keep me warm.

And, do you need the towel?

Yow! First pack 32 pounds! Will let the suitcase sit for about a week, then pull out about half the tops, the extra sweater, maybe the bowling ball ;-) Will be easier when I have a better feel for the weather forecast.

Here's my 2cents on sunscreen. I use a Neutrogena 50 spf because I have rosacea. Comes in a 1.9 oz tube. Seriously wouldn't leave home w/o it. I Might buy some random 20 spf on location for arms, etc (Oh, and make sure you bring a chapstick that is at least 15 spf. & a HAT)
Neutrogena also sells some products that are sold in stick form, like a deodorant. My local Wal-Mart has them rt now, and my Walgreens will "in season" they go up to 70 spf, and some claim to be waterproof.

I take a travel curling iron

I've always wondered why women with curly hair think they have to have a hair straightener, and women with straight hair think they have to have a hair curler. Maybe we just need to start doing brain transplants.

Lee, you left out the word “some”.

Or you can do like the one woman did on one of the RS tours I took -- she bought clothes along the way and discarded them when they got too dirty to wear. Her baggage was lost by the airline (completely lost, it never showed up). All she had was a small day bag. It worked for her. And it was definitely the lightest packing I have ever seen. :-)

And I know some men who pack heavier than most women. One friend I used to travel with had an entire suitcase of just shoes. Yes, this was a man. He had to have 4 different type of running shoes. He had to have hiking boot and hiking shoes. He had to have dressy shoes. He had two different just everyday shoes. I couldn't understand. And he only wore about 3 pairs of them on any trip.

Lately I have been traveling with a female friend who puts my light packing to shame. She has no need of hair dryers, curling irons, or any that stuff. In fact she seems to get by just fine without most of those things listed as necessary for some women. Her makeup consist of a little concealer and lipstick. And with 3 tops and two bottoms and a selection of scarfs she never appears to be wearing the same thing twice on a trip as long as 2 weeks.

Lee- you have no idea what styling tools are for! It's not about wanting something different, it is about working with what you naturally have. In my case, a curling iron is not to curl, it is to tame and to make my hair go down rather than out into a large puff ball on my head. If I want volume, I would use my 2 inch barrel. If I want a true curl I use a small 1 inch barrel. The straightener is to give shine and luster (ionic only) and can also be used to give a true curl. I am not even going to go into beach waves, texturizing and braiding (my secret weapon to stay cool and look like I took some effort). And I enjoy it all, it is not a burden and because I have been doing this for over 30 years I can "do" my hair in about 10 min and make-up in 7 min flat (full face).

I do care about how I look and the occasion of travel to give my best foot forward. I really don't understand why people cant look in the mirror and take 15 min to pull it all together. No excuse with You-Tube around to show you, for free, how to do anything. This goes for men too! They need to shave, keep their neck line clean, nose and ear hair in check, eyebrows under control and back hair should be dealt with too.

How did the human race survive you millions of years without hair curlers?

Letizia, What works and seems necessary for some doesn't work for others. How much hair you remove is an individual preference. What you do with the hair you don't remove is also a personal preference. You prefer one way for a man to look, many women prefer the opposite. And the preferences seem to change based on who is popular and how they look. I have always been flexible and go my own way without issues.

"How did the human race survive you millions of years without hair curlers?"

..I know right? These are the questions that keep me awake at night :)

@Lee. We women care about our appearance because we get judged by it. In short, the standards for men are lower than of women. The penalties for men are lower than for women. Men, in general, are judged less harshly on appearance. It’s called male privilege, and you clearly don’t get it.

I like looking nice when I travel. And I can still do it with a 6.5 kg personal item. So why the harsh judgement?

If you’re going to Paris, visiting friends / family for several weeks, you need nicer clothes and at least 4-5 “outfits”. At least I do.

You can make 6 outfits with 2 pants and 3 tops. And if you use the right clothes they are nice outfits. Packing light and looking nice are not mutually exclusive.

BTW, I usually take 4-5 tops and 2-3 bottoms plus a top layer. At a minimum, I get 8 outfits with the potential for 30. And that’s without accessories.

This packing light question has taken an interesting turn, but I think the comments are still relevant because people's personal perceptions certainly affect how they pack.

I'm a carry-on only person. Since 2012, I've used a roller bag weighing a total of 20 pounds fully loaded. A cross-body tote with a sleeve that slips over the roller bag's handle is my personal item. Inside it is a tiny purse. Prior to 2012, I used an RS convertible carry-on. The weight was the same, but on my back. I couldn't handle it, so I switched to the roller bag combo.

Now I want to go back to a backpack, the Appenzell to be specific. Under the excellent influence of Sarah Murdoch, I weigh everything. I want to keep it down to 13 pounds or less. Jane from Sapulpa did that on the VI tour with the same pack. I was very impressed. I'll be testing that on a domestic trip shortly. I'll see if my 72-year-old shoulders can handle it. If not, I'll use one of my roller bags next trip, but I'll not add anything just because I can.

Now to the comments.

"Bras don't weigh that much." Actually, foundation garments can be pretty heavy. I finally realized that I wash clothes so often that I don't need to pack 2 sets. I save 11 oz by packing only 1.

"It's only because women think they need more stuff than men do." I'm not one of those women and my husband is not one of those men. He packs waaayyyy more than I do, refuses to use a roller bag and whines that he needs a cart to get through the airport. He's never internalized the fact that no matter how many T-shirts he takes, he wears the same 3-4 over and over.

"Women have expectations placed on them due to social norms. And we are penalized if we don’t meet those norms. So we meet the norms because we don’t like getting hassled and disrespected." Penalized, hassled or disrespected for how we look? I didn't get that memo. Maybe that's because I came from a working class background. The expectations I got were to get good grades, work hard and be self-supporting. Personal experience from recent trips to the UK and Italy: aging, getting wrinkles and gray hair are great ways to avoid hassles and get respect.

"So we need to carry makeup." Nope. I rarely wore make-up. It made me feel weird, like I wasn't me. I stopped altogether at the age of 40. I do pack moisturizer with sunscreen for my very dry and cancer-prone skin.

"And hair product for our (socially required) longer hair." Nope. I'm a life-long short hair person. The few times I've tried to grow it out to shoulder length or longer, it drove me nuts and I promptly cut it. You don't need hair product if you accept your natural hair as it is and get a good cut suitable for it.

"And a pair of dress shoes to go with the dress." I don't own a dress or skirt. I have no need for dress shoes, whatever that means these days. I pack some very lightweight (14 oz for the pair) flats to alternate with the boots I normally wear during the day.

"And some jewelry." Now this I can understand. It weighs very little and you don't need much. It's also the best souvenir ever.

"We can still travel light though, it’s just a little trickier." I do agree that traveling light is trickier than just throwing everything you think you might want or need in your bag. It's especially tricky for those of us who are size 16 or larger. My packing weight would be much lighter if I was an 8 or smaller.

Thanks Lo. Great counterpoints.

I always go with the premise that if you won't use or wear something at least three times on a trip: you don't need it.
This way, I have talked myself out of bringing "stuff".
Besides, you need room for the shopping you might do while you are on vacation!

Lee and Lo, I think you’ve missed the point.

Both of you are stating “If you leave the hair product, the makeup, the clothes at home you can travel light like me”

I’m saying “You can have the product, the hair, the clothes but you have to be smart about it”.

My weight has fluctuated through the years from size 16 to size 6. The clothing size has not stopped me from traveling light. Yes, it is easier as a size 6 but it’s not hard as a size 16. (Right now I’m an 8)

The key to a light bag is reduced packaging and reduced stuff. I can bring my makeup, hair tools, dress, 2 pairs of shoes and nice clothes in a personal item. But I had to be careful about how I do it. It took a while of carry on travel to fine tune the techniques and get things to work double duty.

But the thing is, you have to make the little adjustments to drop ounces and pounds. You need a capsule core. You need a lighter toiletry bag. You need to decant your toiletries. You need to decant makeup and use makeup crayons. You need to put paper in the cloud or on your phone. You need to strip guidebooks. You need to bring light clothing and layer for warmth. You need to bring minimum jewelry. You need to use ultralight packing cubes or none at all.

Otherwise you end up with a 20+ pound bag.

https://www.winemag.com/2015/09/30/11-reasons-you-should-be-drinking-prosecco/

Hey everyone! So, I kept up with all the responses, but just haven't had a chance to log on. As Lo said, this conversation took an unexpected turn... But all have very valid points, and I appreciate everyone's comments.

I've been on Pinterest a lot lately, and came across Cindy H's "capsule wardrobe" suggestion, whether it's packing for a trip or just your year round wardrobe. So I kept that in mind while going through my things.

Regarding my own packing, I finally figured it out, pulled out a few more items of clothing, eliminated two packing cubes, which helped save space, and consolidated my toiletries into a different bag, using little Ziploc bags to separate stuff. DH still has a little more room in his bag, so he gets to pack a few odds and ends.

As far as makeup goes, I pack some along, and it has sunscreen built in, so bonus! I'm also bringing a few small pieces of jewelry that happen to fit in a small pillbox. I won't be taking a flatiron for my hair this time. (And it's not that women with curly hair want it straight and vice versa, although that does happen. Oftentimes, it's just about taming the unruly frizz.) But for this trip, if the hotel has a hair dryer, that'll be a good hair day, lol. Otherwise, I've embraced the messy updos.

To mm14, thanks for the link on Prosecco, lol. That just reminds me that I keep forgetting to try some (I enjoy wine, though not generally a champagne drinker). Nice to know that Prosecco isn't always bubbly.

And thanks again to everyone's input. Wishing you all Happy Travels!

Hi Plumeria,

I'm glad you got my attempt at humor ;) As you noted, it also served as an educational link. There are a few things that I didn't know either. lol

Have a wonderful trip and happy packing :)

For me I usually take a list on what to bring for my travel. I only bring the ones that are most needed such as clothes and gadgets.

"Much easier for men to pack light than for women."

With all do respect, this is nonsense.

Most men are physically bigger than most women, thus everything we take is bigger, takes more room and weighs more. My wife can get three pairs of shoes into the same space I get two. Four pairs of pants into the same space I get 2 - 3. Same with shirts, socks, etc. Sure women bring a few more cosmetics and some hair product, but I have to bring a shaver, big belt, etc. Sweaters and jackets, are no contest. My wife's is so much smaller, probably 1/3 smaller than mine in volume.

The idea that it's easier for men to pack light/small than a woman needs to be tossed out. It just isn't true.

Barnstormer, your snarky response is rude.

Your experience is not more valid than my experience.

We buy all of our toiletries and cosmetics when we arrive. Nothing to carry on, except maybe a chapstick or a lip balm for the dry airplane air. Then we go to a local grocery store or pharmacy to buy a small shampoo and conditioner, toothpaste, soap, etc. to use while we travel.

We buy all of our toiletries and cosmetics when we arrive. Nothing to carry on, except maybe a chapstick or a lip balm for the dry airplane air. Then we go to a local grocery store or pharmacy to buy a small shampoo and conditioner, toothpaste, soap, etc. to use while we travel.

Unfortunately, some of us have some pretty severe allergies. So we have to bring it all with us. The best strategy is to find solid versions of your toiletry and do a test run at home. I’ve found variations even within brands. For example, some Lush shampoo bars work great, others cause me to break out in hives and make my eyes swell shut. Then I had to make a run for pharmacy to find cortisone cream.

Now everything is pre-tested. I also carry a small tube of cortisone cream in my 3-1-1 bag. I also carry Benadryl.

I have to assume that the term packing light/carry on mostly refers to the size of the suitcase. I have a question for those who think that buying toiletries after arrival is better than bringing travel sized items with you. Once you buy them, wherever that many be, they still have to fit into your small suitcase. If you buy them upon arrival you may be forced to buy larger items if no travel sized is available. So please explain what is the logic behind waiting until you reach your destination? Maybe I'm missing something.

I have to assume that the term packing light/carry on mostly refers to the size of the suitcase.

Packing lighter is actually about weight, not size.

In addition to packing light there is packing smaller.

The true challenge is doing both.

I have a question for those who think that buying toiletries after arrival is better than bringing travel sized items with you. Once you buy them, wherever that many be, they still have to fit into your small suitcase. If you buy them upon arrival you may be forced to buy larger items if no travel sized is available. So please explain what is the logic behind waiting until you reach your destination? Maybe I'm missing something.

Most carry on bags are expandable. When we buy toiletries we expand the bag to accommodate them. A tube of toothpaste, sunscreen, etc., even a two week supply, does not take that much room, but waiting to buy them just assures we can close our bags and meet the carry on requirements. We also take a few clothing items that are on their last legs and leave those in Europe making room for things like Voltaren gel which is very costly and by prescription in the US, and the occasional souvenir.

If you want to take lots of things, then you might be thinking that you need those. In my first tour, I have taken 5 t-shirts and 4 pants. I used only two shirts and two pants. I took this type lots of excessive things that was not necessary. And still can feel how much pain to carry an overweight bag. Now, I only take one extra dress for me, a flashlight (my choice: https://tacticalflashlightguide.com/fenix/uc35-review/), a multi-knife, mobile and I am ready to go. I don't carry toothbrush, normal shoes etc with me. I buy these types small things from the local area.

Before you do your final pack lay it all out and take pictures. That way you will have a permanent record you can store just about any where and douumention on what you have packed.

While I agree that one can always buy toiletries or whatever once there, I disagree that this is a good idea...for me at least. I want to know what the weight of my bag is when I'm leaving the house so I know I'm comfortable dealing with it for the rest of the trip. I also try to buy my limited souvenirs, if any, at my last location. It seems to me it defeats the purpose to limit toiletries just for the flight and then bulk up with sizes containing more than one needs, when it's the carrying weight throughout the trip that is important, IMO...and I'm one that checks my bag usually and travels with wheels, but weight is still very important to me.

There has never been a negative weight (or even zero weight) packing cube. Anytime you use a packing cube you add weight! That said, I am a big fan of "packaging". Packaging allows you to quickly take everything out of your suitcase and put it on shelves or hangers in the clothes cabinet in your room when you arrive. No need to dig through your suitcase when you want something.

You just need to be judicious about the packages. My packages consist of one flat Tide washing bag for the 3 or 4 golf style shirts I bring, one small mesh bag for the two sets of extra underwear I bring, one RS toiletry bag with toothbrush, toothpaste, and comb, and one small nylon stuff bag for electronic accessories (charger, batteries, etc). I think about all I pack would fit in one packing cube, so what would be the point?

As a new traveler to Europe, last September I did the 21 RS Best of Europe Tour. I used the recommended packing list that came in my tour packet. I believe that list (for men and women) is also on the RS Europe website, along with videos on packing. I limited myself to 20 pounds and took clothing that could be layered, including Gortex Ecco hiking shoes and a waterproof Eddie Bauer jacket. On most days there was plenty of sunshine and it was very warm. However, in Eastern Europe it was cooler with light showers. My favorite day was when we were hiking in the snow in the Alps. Traveling light gave me a wonderful feeling, especially knowing I could do it. I will definitely use that packing list again.

I usually do 2-3 weeks with just an overnight bag if I'm going to be carrying it place to place, especially in Europe. I never pack anything that I can buy over there for less and $20. That includes socks, toiletries, t-shirts, etc. I don't buy a lot of trinkets, and if I find my load getting heavy I send a package home. 3 changes of clothes is plenty, one extra pair of shoes (and flip/flops if it's warm), small shaving/toiletries kit (for 2-3 days), fleece, rain jacket/parka, and that's about it. I get books, papers, and pretty much everything else on the road. I'm not that young, I stay in nice places, but I hate hauling around a suitcase. And I refuse to spend a lot of my vacation in a laundromat, so hotels with cleaning services are preferred.

If you can find a book by Colin Fletcher called "the Complete Walker" you can see what packing light can be. It's 40 years old, and technology has made things a lot lighter, but he lays out what's "essential" better than anyone else I've run into.

Some of the best tips for lightweight options can come from reading ultralight backpacking forums. I do take a clothesline - it's a Sea-to-Summit one that weighs in at 1.5-ounces and is the size of a tic-tacs container....and you don't need clothespins with it since it's designed to dry via tuck in along the line loops. Very handy if you want to bring a clothesline!

What I do to be sure I'm only bringing what I need and know I'll wear is lay out our entire trip, check the historical average high and low for each location on the dates we'll be there, then what we have reservations/tickets for - those I will want to wear specific things, like for the Vatican or a night out at the theater. On dates I'm not sure yet what we'll be doing for activities, I'll note if we'll likely be indoors or outdoors, if we'll be traveling that day and how (by car, train, plane), and any things I can think of that may require something specific.

I then begin the process of pulling out WAY too much, and slowly purging out what isn't going to work, or isn't worth hauling around for only one wear; unless we're only going for a week or less, everything I pack will be worn several times, laundering along the way.

Over the years of doing this, I've found I wind up with a color palette of two to four colors, with all basically working in a mix-or-match style. I round out things by adding scarves to have a different look on different days with the same pieces, or will add a lightweight cardigan to change the look of an outfit. Any outerwear I bring will match at least 80% of what I'm bringing so it'll work with basically everything. I choose my footwear after my clothes since what I know I'll be wearing better dictates what shoes I need rather than the other way around. Once all that is done, then I'll decide on jewelry and any other accessories to bring. Try to pack it all and if it's too much, begin the process of compromise and reduction until I get it right.

I recently finished my selections for our upcoming 32-day trip in September into October....what I'll bring includes:
2 pants (one worn on plane)
2 capri pants
3 tank style tops
4 short-sleeve tops
1 long-sleeve top
1 dressy tank top
1 lightweight blazer
3 swing dresses (one maxi length)
2 lightweight cardigans (one worn on plane)
2 camisole tanks (one worn on plane)
1 sweater top (worn on plane)
2 skirts (both are maxi length so they can be worn as a maxi, or tucked up to shorter midi-length, or worn as a strapless dress with a cardigan or blazer)
Ankle boots (worn on plane)
Walking shoes
Ballerina flats (Tieks which fold up nicely)
Flip-flops (for the beach)
Bathing suit
7 underwear (one worn on plane)
2 bras (one worn on plane)
3 scarves
4 socks (one worn on plane)
Leather jacket (worn on plane)
Rain shell

That's it - 32 days with mix-and-match options = 40+ outfits based on what I pair with what, I've got three dressy options, along with almost everything able to be dressed up one way or another, or dressed down without a fuss. We'll be going from a high/low of 85/65 to 65/45 throughout the trip, so layering will come into play for the few days we may be in cooler areas, with my leather jacket likely to get lots of wear in the evenings in some of our stops. I specifically book places that have a washer, if not a washer/dryer, so we can do laundry along the way.

I try to keep it fairly simple with electronics: yoga laptop (very lightweight), cord; iphone, cord; gopro, cord, battery pack, selfie/tripod combo; battery backup, cord; travel adapter (with USB port); adapter electrical strip (with USB ports), car adapter for charging that goes in lighter/12V plug.

The odds and ends items include a clothesline, sewing kit, first aid kit and four folding hangers....and then, of course, toiletries.

Compression packing cubes are the bomb - they really save a ton of space once you get them packed, then zipped up!

Regarding make-up, I don't take much....when traveling, I use a powder foundation if I'm going to use foundation (which is maybe 2-3 times in a month) and I use the 'trial size' option that is available for those who want to try before buying the full-size set, it even comes with the brush you need! Other than that, I take an eyeliner pencil, mascara, one palette of eye shadow (four color), powdered bronzer and one lipstick, along with a brush set for eyes and blush/bronzer.

And I forgot above, I do take a travel hairdryer, flat iron and hot rollers - all are mini size, and dual voltage - along with two brushes (round and flat).

While I do enjoy a good poke around a drugstore in a foreign city, it can often turn quite baffling. Recently in Budapest I needed body lotion and the Rossmann nearby had no travel size, so I got the smallest normal size. Couldn't find a hair gel that wouldn't produce dubious results, either, and the deodorant section was 95% aerosol--though I did try a stick Nivea deodorant that I liked. They had band-aids and condoms in the same section, still can't make that connection work...Thus, I bring my preferred toiletries from home--either travel size or placed in smaller containers.

My favorite puffy jacket and vest are from Uniqlo. They are ultra light down. The jacket weighs a little over 7 oz and the vest weighs a little over 4 oz. They roll up into a small pouch. In several museums in Europe that prohibited jackets, I have packed mine up into its little pouch while waiting in the ticket line, then dropped the pouch in my small daypack. Lots of different colors available for men or women and the price can’t be beat——— $50! They run a little small. In Patagonia I am consistently an XS and in Uniqlo I’m a S.

Question: do any of you go on flights where the carry-ons are weighed? I never have and have never worried about it.
I thought only the checked luggage was weighed.

Evan, our carrying on luggage was weighed by Lufthansa and Alitalia. I can't recall for certain, but I think British Airways also weighed them. Some do, some don't I guess.

There are literally hundreds of packing lists published online. A bit less than half of them are written by and for women’s hockey have done everything in every country and in all seasons.

I’m sure our OP has returned from her trip by now, but wanted to add a comment to this thread.

If you are a frequent traveler - even an overseas trip once a year - then invest in some travel friendly clothes.
-Merino wool is super lightweight, doesn’t retain odors and is usually quick dry. We took two merino wool tees each on a recent 2 week and didn’t feel either needed washing until we returned home. Likewise our merino wool socks which we wore everyday biking.
- puff jackets and packable rain coats compress to practically nothing.
- multiuse items - (my favorite a scarf/cardigan/shawl/skirt/swim coverup item from Diane Kroe) give a lot of variety and flexibility to your wardrobe. I never travel without one and use it at least four times on a trip.
- buy lighter luggage itself

I plan my outfits on an app called Stylebook and review what was worn after the trip.

travelingtulls, what was the name of your favorite Diane Kroe item? I have been looking at several items, but cannot figure out which one to start with. Oh, and I second the info on the merino wool--I wear it year round and love my t shirts, skirts, pants, socks! Unfortunately, my favorite merino wool label went out of business early this year (Ibex). Traveling, I really appreciate your input!

@ukkrazy I have a blue “Endless” from Diane Kroe which is great for travel and everyday use, but my favorite is a “Carry-on Cozy” which is colorful and is complimented every time I wear it.

travelingtulls - I like your list - merino wool, etc
https://www.duluthtrading.com/ has been a good store for underwear and tee-shirts

The nice thing with having purchased a few items and trying them out at home -> the ones that fail the test can still be used State-side even if you don't want to bring them on trips.
Some tee-shirts are sort of in that category for me.

I just saw a useful math equation:
Pack 2 bottoms x 5 tops = 10 day trip
This does not include the outfit you're wearing.

No doubt that it is easier, much easier, for men to pack than women. Some things I don't pack anymore to Europe, they're either supplied by the hotel or I no longer need it, ie, less weight or replace with something else.

When I had the 2 wheel roller, I packed 30 pounds for a trip in the summer lasting 5-6 weeks. The 2 wheel roller had a hard plastic rod at the bottom making it very easy to grab on to in terms of distributing the weight in order to throw the roller on a overhead rack on the ICE train. No use on a TGV. Now, I have the 4 wheel spinner with no hard plastic rod at the bottom, ie, no support, which means I now reduce the packing to make the entire thing lighter...say 25 pounds. The carry-on shoulder sack is packed with another 15-17 pounds.

Every time flying Br Air I have never had my shoulder sack as a carry-on weighed. They just ask me how many pieces of carry-on luggage I have, I say one. They don't even tell me to place it so as to weigh it. I weigh myself to see what it is. As long as the carry-on is under 19 pounds at check-in, that's good enough.

I've never understood the logic of "Pack 2 bottoms x 5 tops = 10 day trip", and I'm an engineer. If I have a pink top, and I wear it one day with black pants and another day with beige pants, I still feel like it's the same outfit. I do see the logic of adding bright scarves or a large piece of statement jewelry to give an outfit a different focal point.

I will share the clothes that I brought on a recent 3-week trip & also how many times I wore them during the 21-day trip. This was my 11th trip to Europe, and this has been my usual amount of clothes for the past 4 trips. I sink wash items during the trip.

Bottoms and dresses:
1. Black pants - 6 days
2. Black capris - 7 days
3. Toad & Co. black cotton "Muse dress" - 5 days
4. Sparkly black print polyester dress - 3 days (& some evening dinners, special events)

Tops:
1. 3/4 sleeve cheetah print top - 5 days
2. A 2nd professional work top (blue pattern) - 3 days
3. A 3rd professional work top (yellow/black pattern) - 1 day
4. Cotton Eddie Bauer top with detail on the V-neck (solid fushia) - 4 days

Other items: a black open-weave cardigan, and a black Columbia raincoat. 2 lightweight patterned scarves & one statement necklace

As you can see, I really didn't need to bring the 3rd professional top. The Toad & Co. dress was a new purchase, and I loved this dress for being so comfortable & for its appropriateness with a scarf for Italian churches, etc. https://www.toadandco.com/wf/collections/organic-cotton/Muse-Dress?quantity=1&color=178

I've never understood the logic of "Pack 2 bottoms x 5 tops = 10 day trip", and I'm an engineer.

We engineers are trained to notice changes. We would pick up on the same pants - most people don’t. And accessorizing differently really does change the out fit. I personally change pants from day to day too so it looks like a bigger change. I’d rewear the black pants on the 3rd day. BTW I would consider black pants and black capris to be the same.

I haven’t had as much good luck with the Toad and Company dresses. They’re comfortable but take forever to dry if you hand wash them. Mine now stay at home for that reason.

Cindy H, that specific dress did very well rolling it in a towel to remove the excess water after sink washing (and I stand on the roll before unrolling). It was always ready to go the next morning, but I usually didn’t wear it more frequently than every other day. I have had various brands of dresses that didn’t dry in a day when I tested them at home, first, so they definitely stay home!

Cindy, are there any brands of dresses that you recommend for traveling when sink washing? I packed a Royal Robbins cotton dress last year for our Spain trip and wore it more than I had anticipated. Other dresses I have brought various years have just been from my wardrobe from Macy’s, Dress Barn or Christopher & Banks.

In general, the dresses that I pack most are from regular stores.
I do the following:

• Grab a wad of material and hold it for a few seconds. Release the wad. See if it wrinkles. No wrinkles = good.
• lift the dress and see how heavy it is. Light = good (always dries faster).
• feel the weave. A looser weave usually dries faster.
• check the materials. Rayon, for some reason, dries slower.

I also like two piece dresses when I can get them. Then I can wear the tops and bottoms separately. But a one piece dress is the coolest in heat.