Belgium + Netherlands curveball

From your other thread you know I like Bruges but really, 5 nights feels too long here to me. I'd say 3 nights here.

Pam I hear you ... Okay so here's my thinking: Day 1 is basically a wash, with the train from Brussels and checking into the hotel and jetlag. One day will be a day trip to Ghent. And so then that's 3 full days in Bruges, which sounds lovely. But I do welcome thoughts here!

When we did our Belgium trip (+ some days in Amsterdam and finished in Paris), we stayed for a few days in Bruges, Gent, and Antwerp. We are slow travellers so we enjoyed a leisurely pace in each place. We did a WW1 Flanders day tour from Bruges and a day trip to Brussels from Ghent. But we enjoyed staying in each location.

First of all and most importantly; when do you plan to take this trip? What time of year? I ask, because that will greatly impact which city is the best base for your stays. So I will await your reply before commenting.

I will already say this; 5 nights in Bruges? Okay…Honestly, for me, that would be 3 or maybe even 4 nights too many. Apart from your day trip to Ghent, what else will you do with your time while there?

Dutch_traveler Thanks! We'll be going late September/early October. I eagerly await your thoughts!

(About Bruges: We might go down to 4 nights, again including a day trip to Ghent, but Bruges is really the whole point of the trip and the jumping off point of the rest of the itinerary for us! Some people watch the film In Bruges because they're going to Bruges; for us, we're going to Bruges because of our deep love of the film itself. It's a top 5 favorite.)

Ah okay, so you won’t be here during tulip season. In that case, which base is ideal depends on what you want to see and do in the Netherlands. Utrecht is very central and is ideal if you also want to explore the north, east and/or south of the country.
If you only want to see cities like Delft, Leiden, Gouda, Haarlem etc in the west, I would stay in the west.
Btw; I’m curious what it is you have against Haarlem. It’s one of my favorite cities in the Netherlands.

Even with your explanation about your love for the movie In Bruges, I still believe that 5 nights in Bruges is way too much. You can see the sights of Bruges in one day, so what will you do with the rest of your days?

Duch_Traveler thanks! We'll be staying in the west given that we're keeping it to ~7 nights (first 7 in Belgium) ... I'm leaning toward Leiden as the base (very interested in day tripping to Utrecht). If we based in Leiden, what would transit look like to there from Antwerp? And would it be safe to stay in Leiden our last night before flying home out of AMS the next day (or would it be safer to stay in Haarlem at least that last night)?

I’m just chiming in to say that I just returned from both countries and you might find my trip report helpful:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/solo-in-the-netherlands-and-belgium-my-trip-report

My photos will give you an idea of what the area looks like end of Sept. beginning of Oct.

I try to stay out of the “how many nights should I spend in X” discussions. Unless it’s my trip of course. 😊

Hannah, I suggest you read the trip report by Carrie. In the 3rd post of that topic, she wrote a very good explanation about the train system in Belgium and the Netherlands and between the 2 countries, including links to the websites of the Belgian and Dutch national railway companies.
From Antwerp to Leiden or Delft or Haarlem means taking a train to Rotterdam and changing to another train there.

It doesn’t really matter if you stay in Haarlem or Leiden on your last night. From Leiden to Schiphol Airport you can take a direct train. From Haarlem to Schiphol a direct bus. The journey time is about the same.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/belgium/day-trips-from-brussels-besides-bruges-and-ghent

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/belgium/day-trips-from-brussels-768c7c85-75b9-4374-ad13-ae36967bc521

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/netherlands/day-trips-from-delft

Pre-pandemic, both Belgium and the Netherlands tended to have an Open Monument Days event at the end of September. It tended to be advertised and posted much more in Dutch than in English or even French. You have plenty to see already, but I thought it deserved mention.

Be aware that Antwerp (my favorite of these cities) is a sprawling place, with (unlike Bruges, for example) widely dispersed sights. You may wish to prioritize some interests (art museums, architecture, the oldest buildings, church interiors, the Port, whatever). Just as an example of things that are easy to overlook, the Cogels Osy Lei, the Middelheim Sculpture Garden, and the lovely exterior of a big Synagogue near the KMSKA.

I like Utrecht and Leiden very much, but it makes sense to me to stay in Amsterdam because there is so much to do there. BTW, try to pre-book the infrequent English tour of the Musical Automata Museum (Speelklok?) if that interests you. It's by tour-only anyway.

As noted in the links, I don't happen to think that Bruges is the most romantic and beautiful place in the world.

You can do Brugges in one day and Ghent in one day. Five days is just silly.

“ Pre-pandemic, both Belgium and the Netherlands tended to have an Open Monument Days event at the end of September. It tended to be advertised and posted much more in Dutch than in English or even French. You have plenty to see already, but I thought it deserved mention.”

The Open Monument days are still a thing post-pandemic, but in the Netherlands and Belgium they’re always held during the first half of September not at the end. Next year’s Open Monument day is the weekend of September 8/9 in Belgium and September 15/16 in the Netherlands.

I think you are really smart to split your trip into two trips!

I believe I mentioned in your last post that I was disappointed in Bruges. However, lots of people love it, and I suspect you will as well. Five nights is four full days, and with a day trip to Ghent, you only have three days in Bruges, which even I don’t think is excessive. If you get bored, you could bike to Damme or further. And you can always do another day trip. I would suggest Brussels, which you seem to have no interest in. I seem to be in a minority on this forum, but I love Brussels. The Grand Place is one of my favorite places in Europe. It’s just gorgeous, and the streets around it a delight to wander in. So many interesting store windows. It might not be for you, but at least give it a thought if you get tired of Bruges.

I was less thrilled with Amsterdam, but was glad I went. No way I would pass up an opportunity to see the Anne Frank house, which was an almost life-long dream. The canals and the old houses along them are wonderful to see, but I did not find it a relaxing place to walk around. I loved staying in Haarlem and especially liked seeing the Corrie Ten Boom house. We did day trips to Delft and Leiden and they seemed nice, but the weather was bad, so I don’t feel like so can evaluate them fairly.

Hannah, with regards to your base, I don't think you could go wrong with Leiden, Utrecht or Delft. They're are all very charming places and have easy access to other towns (my favorite is Leiden, but have not been to Utrecht). I would do Haarlem as a day trip (or maybe your last night there) just to see the Corrie Ten Boom house and a few other sights, but it was not one of my favorite places in the Netherlands.

With regards to access, all 3 listed above are within an easy 2 hour train ride from Antwerp.

I do agree that you should read Carrie's trip report as she spent time in many of those places and wrote about the trains to and from. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/solo-in-the-netherlands-and-belgium-my-trip-report

Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far!

Carrie I have been scouring your posts about your trip already! It's immensely helpful and I've bookmarked it so I can keep going back to the transportation info. Cannot tell you how awesome that is that you typed all that up for all of us. Also I LOL'd at staying out of the how-many-nights hoopla. I generally trust my intuition on those decisions but would be very interested to hear your thoughts about my most current general itinerary which I'll list below.

Dutch_Traveler Thanks for the follow up! If we were to end our trip to Leiden and use the train for the quick trip to Schiphol, what would our backup options be to get to the airport in the event of some train disaster/mishap/closure that prevented us from taking the train there? Would there be a bus or taxi option? (The bus from Haarlem just seems a safer option, but I'd rather not change hotels just for that reason!)

Tim thanks for the links! And I've read lots of your posts and, along with knowing a couple people who've fallen in love with Antwerp when there, your enthusiasm about Antwerp (and our love of our bigger cities) makes me really excited to go there and experience it ourselves.

Carroll! thank you for chiming in that "even you" don't think 3 full days in Bruges is absurd. I LOL'd and appreciated it. My husband and I love to be leisurely when traveling and just be outside, walking walking walking. Given that, and with Bruge's charm (along with chocolate, waffles, fries and beer), I personally can't imagine three days being too many. But I've definitely thought of having Damme and Sluis as options and could definitely add Brussels to that as well.

Mardee Thank you! So glad you're popping up again and sticking around for this planning adventure of mine. Would love your thoughts on my most-current itinerary that I'll post next.

Okay, friends. Here's my most-current itinerary thoughts:

fly into BRU

• 5 nights Bruges (day trip Ghent)

• 3 Antwerp

• 3 Delft (Gouda)

• 4 Leiden (Utrecht, Haarlem)

fly out of AMS

I know everyone has thoughts about 5 nights in Bruges (lol) but Bruges is the whole point of the trip and the jumping off point for the rest of the itinerary. The 5 nights would allow for 3 full days, plus the day trip to Ghent. There's certainly the possibility of venturing out to Damme or Sluis (or even some time in Brussels) if we end up bored.

I've gone back and forth about 2 or 3 nights Antwerp, but I lean 3 because of the people I know who've really fallen for the place, as well as my husband's and my preference to be in a place long enough to really get a feel for it.

NL: I was initially thinking we'd have just one city to base out of, and I was strongly thinking Leiden. But after watching many YouTube videos last night, I can see both Delft and Leiden as places I'd want to spend more time in than just a single day trip. So I'm currently thinking changing hotels in this case would be worth it, but I'm open to thoughts.

I like the reassurance of an easy bus ride from Haarlem to Schiphol (rather than relying on the train from Leiden) and so had thought about staying the last night in Haarlem. But if we're already changing hotels for Delft and Leiden, changing again to Haarlem doesn't sound great. I definitely want to look more into backup transit options to Schiphol in case for some crazy reason the train is down.

Whew. Okay. What do we think ... ?

Hannah, I think your itinerary looks great and it sounds like a fabulous trip! I'm tempted to ask if I can stow along with you, lol!!

I think 3 nights is good for Antwerp; especially keeping in mind that 2 nights really only means 1 full day in a place. I know you said your husband really wants to visit there, and there is a lot to see and do, so I would stick with the 3 nights.

And I also get that about wanting to base yourselves in 2 different cities. I think both Leiden anbd Delft are very good choices and you have the added benefit of sleeping in both cities, which is always a good way to get a real feel for the place. If you pack light, it should not be too much of an aggravation to change hotels, and the places are not far apart. You could easily get to the second city by late morning; leave your bags if you can't check in early and get out and explore.

What time is your flight? If it's fairly early, I would consider spending the last night either in Amsterdam or at an airport hotel. If it's late morning or early afternoon, then no matter what happens, I think you could easily get there from any of the places you are in.

I try to stay out of the “how many nights should I spend in X” discussions. Unless it’s my trip of course. 😊

Carrie, hahahahaha!!!!

The good thing is that all of the options and choices discussed here will work well.

I traveled in Netherlands and Belgium earlier this month. I have a few comments why Leiden was a convenient base for me although I can't compare to places I didn't stay. The train from Leiden to Schipol Airport takes 18 minutes and puts you right inside the airport. The train from Antwerp to Leiden was easy, efficient, and only 24Euros if booked 3 days in advance. I had to change at Schipol airport but that was quick and easy. Day trips to Delft and your other cities are easy from Leiden. There are a number of places to stay quite near the Leiden station that also near the historic center.

To plan for all public transport in the Netherlands use the website 9292- https://9292.nl/en/

For instance it gives the bus Qliner 365 from Leiden to Schiphol if you untick all options other than bus.

Hi, friends! Thanks so much for all the input. I'm back with an update!

After deciding to split Belgium and the UK into two separate trips (absolutely the right call, even if I'm bummed about not getting everything I want all at once lol), we were going back and forth deciding which to do first. I was leaning Belgium/NL, but more conversations yesterday with my husband has us set on and excited for the UK for Fall 2024, and then doing Belgium/NL in 2025. The awesome news is I already have a massive head start on (and huge amounts of excitement for) that trip planning for 2025!

I'll likely throw up a post on the England boards in a minute because I am totally in the weeds of London hotels/neighborhoods 🤪

A note for your 2025 trip. We stayed in Leiden on our last trip to The Netherlands, Amsterdam on our first trip there. Your note about not being interested in The Hague or Rotterdam baffles me. To get to our favorite site in The Netherlands, you take a train to Rotterdam and then switch to a river boat to Kinderdijk, home to 19 windmills in their original locations. Walk along the canal from one windmill to the next. Wonderful!
We loved staying in the university town of Leiden, home to the Pilgrims for ten years after they fled England. It is on the train line and is easy to visit other towns and cities by train.