Venice and Sienna

Venice is lovely, and I know more than one person who spends a week there without a second thought. But we all have different travel styles. I've been to Venice five times. Each time, I loved it the first day or two but quickly got saturated with it. I think the fact that there were so many other tourists really wore me down. (Granted, the rest of Italy has plenty of tourists too.) I made efforts to get away from the main tourist drags - I know where the worst spots are by now - but after few days I've just had enough...but I hope to go back yet again.

So whether eleven days is too long depends on you. How much time do you have in Italy? If eleven days is all the time you have in Italy, I would most certainly want to spend some of that time elsewhere. There are lots of small towns that are easy to get to by train from Venice e.g. Padua, Verona (very touristy though), Vicenza, Ferarra, Ravenna. You could see a lot of these places by train as day trips from Venice, too. It's really up to you.

https://borghipiubelliditalia.it/en/
I’ve been fascinated by the small villages-borghi-on this site. Although some are more like small cities, each one has a great history. You’ll want to look in the Veneto region and get a good map handy for location reference!
Some are quite close to Venice and might satisfy a 2-3 night stay and possibly access might be easier.
Makes it easier to return to Venice for your departure, especially if you want to stay by the airport for your last night.
In one of your posts you’ve mentioned your departure time from Venice, but I don’t remember it. If it’s a bit later and you’re closer, the train trip that morning might not be too difficult.
I’ve not been to any of the borghi piu belli italia, but hope to take care of that on our fall trip!

11 days is a long time, but I do like Andrew H's idea of incorporating day trips. We spent several days in Padova a few years ago, and loved it. We also spent a few hours (we were on a tour) in Ravenna, and would love to go back for at least a full day. If I were in your shoes, I'd spend some time staring at a good map to see what towns, cities, and villages are in day trip range.

I also know someone who, when she travels, gets on a bus and hops off whenever the bus arrives at an interesting looking place. She has said though, that she has learned to find out from the driver when the return buses to her starting point run!

I've been to Venice twice in the last few years and stayed for 5 nights on each trip. For me that was enough, but everyone travels differently. It is fabulous, but it is also packed with thousands of other tourists who also think it's fabulous. Getting away for day trips to Padova, Treviso, Vicenza and maybe even Verona might help. You can also get to Ferrar in 90 minutes. Depends on how much time you're willing to spend on a train for a day trip.

Are you flying into Venice at the beginning of your 11 days? Another option I do sometimes when I'm flying into/out of the same place is land, take a train somewhere and then work my way back (to Venice) and spend however many days I want before flying out (to Paris).

Even if you make it down to Siena, the best villages in Tuscany aren't really that accessible by public transportation, so without a car, I'm not sure how easy that would be.

No one is mentioning Sienna, so I'm assuming the day trips from Venice are just as satisfying as the hill top villages. I just read another reply about Seinna. Maybe without a car it's not such a good idea.

As far as all the tourists, aren't there some sections that aren't that busy, and early in day, and down the alleys where you get lost

Siena (note only one “N” ) is lovely and very different from Venice. A 2 or 3 night stay there could easily be filled without taking any day trips.

Not sure why you chose to stay in Venice 11 nights? We do love Venice but 3-4 nights at a time is probably our limit for reasons stated above.

There are dozens of easy day trips from Venice so unless you are willing to actually MOVE to a different location for a few nights before returning to Venice for departure flight those are your options.

For me a day trip should be not much more than 60-90 min in transit each way, less better.
Ravenna is about 2 hours, a bit far but doable- there is a lot to see there though so you’d have to chose which mosaic sights.

Bologna, Verona are both busy cities so won’t give you that small village feel you are looking for.
Vicenza and Ferrara both close and much smaller and less touristic.
Another possibility is Bassano del Grappa - just a pretty town, few tourists, about an hour from Venice

An overnight stay anywhere will give you more of that “ local” feel when you can spend the evening and morning enjoying the smaller town/ village life.

You could easily get to either Treviso or Padua from Venice --- on our 2019 trip to the Veneto, those two were our favorites.

The oldest part of Treviso feels small and medieval, and you might even want to spend a night or two there (we spent a week). Very walkable. Many streets are either pedestrian-only (often narrow and porticoed) or have so little traffic people treat them like sidewalks. Many buildings have frescoed exterior walls. You can take a walk on top of the encircling walls and there are small canals and bridges and flowers everywhere. Excellent places to eat, too, many canal-side.

Padua is a city, but it is not packed with tourists the way Florence and Siena can be. There are three large and wonderful piazze, each with its own character, plus many smaller ones. Lots of fun every evening, very lively. Interesting places to eat, such as the local pasta as a street food. The Scrovegni chapel, of course, which even people tired of (or not interested in) church art enjoy. Botanical garden with a building full of interesting exhibits. Again, probably better to spend a night or two there.

Your replies really help. I like the descriptions. Thank you. I don't really need to go to Sienna on this trip.

As far as all the tourists, aren't there some sections that aren't that busy, and early in day, and down the alleys where you get lost

Yes, definitely. However...it's still hard to completely get away from the tourists or rather from the "tourist town" feel. Maybe not everyone agrees, but this kind of feeling wears me down fairly quickly, as much as I love Venice.

In any case, since you have so many day trip options that don't require advanced commitment, you can certainly spend the bulk of your time in Venice and plan a bunch of day trips by train...but if you are loving Venice so much that you want to spend all of your time there, you don't have to take any or all of your day trip options. Just plan for them. Figure out ahead of time which trains you'd take to get to/from the towns, how often they run coming, how late they run, etc. Part of trip planning. Then if you want to take day trips, you've got it all worked out before you get there.

Siena is lovely - the old town square is amazing and dramatic. But it seems like a lot of hassle to get down there from Venice then get right back. I think I'd put it off for another trip - there are so many other wonderful places to fill eleven days in or near Venice that you should have no trouble running out of places to to go. Maybe pick one other town for a few nights overnight. You could actually start your trip that way (if you fly in early enough) and then just come back to Venice and spend the rest of your time there until you fly out.

Eleven days is not too long - you can spend months in Venice and still find new things. It does help to have a bit of an agenda, a focus if you will.
One trip, I was focused on the architecture of Carlo Scarpa, and that took me to half a dozen venues including Altivole, Verona and Possagno.
Another trip we hunted down every work by Tiepolo that we could find. So the church of San Polo, the Academia and the island Armenian monastery.
Most trips we take a picnic to Certosa; there is a bar there too. Lots of green open space.
There is a tour operator offering kayak trips through Venice. We did that; great fun.
The hospital library in San Polo is stunning, and a great museum.
So there’s half a dozen things to do even before you hit the big sights.

Get hold of two books,
“Venice” by James/Jan Morris, probably the best ever book written about Venice and
“Secret Venice” by Jonglez. All sorts of quirky details; that book will draw you all over Venice.
Noves set in Venice can be fun too and give you a bit of a feel. I would recommend novels by Philip Gwyn Jones, start with The Venetian Game. Phil lives in Venice and his books give good descriptions and colour.
Eleven days is about four times as many as the average visitor. You will have way more than four times the pleasure.

Thanks, very good advice!

Also worth a visit, per guided tour.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/lazzaretto-nuovo

Siena is going to be a hassle to get to and would be best to visit if spending time in Florence.
I’ve been to Venice twice and both times I spent one full day getting lost and they were long days. This way you can truly explore it and when you’re done with the lagoon visit some Venetian Islands.
Good day trip options from Venice are Padua (30-minutes by direct train) but buy your ticket for the Scrovegni Chapel before leaving home. There’s lots to see in Padua (Padova) so you might want to re-visit. Vicenza is another good place (45-minutes).

Aussie, I loved the Morris book so much I actually bought it! I'll look for the Jonglez book, as well. We're planning on spending 5 days in Venice later this spring, so I too am looking for ideas.

mlw5000 have you looked into this: http://www.venicescapes.org/ They do historical walking tours, and the tours they show in their website look fantastic! Not cheap, but serious historical tours. There's a range of topics available. Take a look at the website. We're signed up for one, and only knowing there are other things we want to do in Venice kept me from signing up for three of them! If we were spending 11 days in Venice, I would be doing at least two, maybe three of their tours.

Edit to add: I just checked with one of our local library systems, and it has the Jonglez book! I just put in a request for it.

mlw5000, you mention at the end of this thread that you're staying in Spinea. That isn't what most people think of when you say "Venice" so it may help to be more specific when discussing your plans?

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/itinerary-2d3e7107-ca1a-4741-95b0-0de4f2f924fc

If you've already booked some accommodations in Italy and Paris, it would be helpful to know where those are and for how long. Same with your flights. It could give new questions some useful context as, right now, I think people responding are assuming that you're staying ON the island. Unless, of course, you've changed that reservation?

No one is mentioning Sienna, so I'm assuming the day trips from Venice are just as satisfying as the hill top villages. I just read another reply about Seinna. Maybe without a car it's not such a good idea.

Getting the kind of intimate experience in a small village will be hard to accomplish without a car, IMO. Siena is lovely and fascinating, but it is, as you observed, more a city than a village.

We based ourselves in an agriturismo just outside Greve, which is south of Florence. It isn't a hilltop village, but we could drive down from our hilltop agriturismo in the evenings and get a real small village experience. True hilltop villages like Radda, San Gimignano, Volterra and Castellina were anywhere from a half hour to 1 1/2 hours away by car. Some have limited bus service, but it would be hard to ramble.

Kathy, I cancelled Spinea. I am now staying in Mastre for 2 nights, Venice for Venice for the rest. While in Mastre I can make a day trip more easily I believe. I can still change reservations. I may just go to Paris 2 days earlier.

Be sure to use correct spelling when you search for trains, etc
MESTRE

I have to chime in with ChristineH - you really need correct spellings of cities and train stations. Siena and Mestre. If you go to Florence it is Firenze Santa Maria Novella. You could easily stay in Florence and take the bus to Siena for a day trip, 1 hr 15 min, or vice versa (stay in Siena).

There is little difference between Mestre and Venice in terms of connections for day trips. Just about all trains to places like Padova, Verona, Vicenza or Bassano del Grappa start in Venezia. The Venice train station (signed as Ferrovia, or iron road, and signs are all over Venice) is easier to get around than Mestre. Mestre has subways, Venice is all on one level and has fewer platforms.
Some people report the general vicinity of Mestre station as being a bit unsavoury, a certain amount of dealing, and those guys are not selling flowers.

Stay in Venice.

I can still change reservations.

Good, do it and stay in central Venice. If you want to make day-tripping easier, stay at walking distance from Venezia S. Lucia.

Do not stay in Mestre, I agree with the others!
Stay in western Canareggio or Santa Croce, and you will be both in the middle of Venice AND 15-20 minutes away from the train station.

If I am staying in middle Canareggio could I make a 9:25am flight out of San Marco Airport, figuring I would have to be there 2 hours early, I guess? That is the cheapest way possible. Do the trains go to the airport? Are they reliable. I was thinking of staying in Mestre close to the tram or bus, the night before my flight. I that not a good idea? So day tripping is actually easier from Venice than Mestra close to the tram. On my arrival to Venice, I get in at 8:30 pm. I have to be at my hotel by 10:00. I figured I might not make it, so I booked a place in Mestre for 2 nights, thinking I could take a day trip the 1st day. I may be very tired also from the transatlantic flight and trip from Paris.

The Venice airport is the Marco Polo Airport VCE
Trains do not go to the airport

You can get to the airport from Venice when you need to if you do your homework, it’s not that complicated
Staying in MESTRE is not going to make much difference time wise and it’s just not a nice place to stay.

Honestly with an arrival that late to VCE after your long 10 hour layover in Paris ( is that still happening?) I would just book a hotel near the airport and spend your first night there. Then In am when you are rested and it is daylight make your way to VENICE.

If you haven’t already PLEASE get yourself a guidebook, RS Venice can’t be beat for all the travel logistics he covers in great detail
All of your questions can easily be self answered by just reading thru his advice for ARRIVAL and CONNECTIONS in Venice

If you have a kindle or kindle app on iPad you can buy it and download and start reading immediately
I like his guidebooks on Kindle on my IPad. (My old eyes don’t like the small print is his real books)

Forget using the tram from Venice. It does not take you anywhere you need to go.
Buses run from Venice (Piazle Roma) to Marco Polo about every 20 minutes.

Good advice. Yes, the 10 hour layover in Paris is still happening! I will be pretty exhausted. Those books do have tiny print! It's awful. I have to have a bright light and still like a magnifier or readers over my glasses. I do have RS book on Italy. They were out of Venice. I need to read it, huh!? I think I need to take the 11 am flght to Paris. Getting to the bus, then to the airport and a 2 hour wait.until a 9:25am flight seems too early. I really should've taken the overnight train. I should have also gotten an open jaw flight from home. Well live and learn. I will all be worth it.

The Venice chapter in the Italy book will have most of info you need for transportation questions

Well live and learn but maybe try to fix whatever you can now before you leave?
Take the 11 am flight to Paris for starters.
And stay in Venice proper.

If you are truly not sold on 11 nights in Venice then change that now as well
You could spend first night near airport for simplicity sake
Then train to Florence or Bologna or Verona ( or even somewhere closer/ smaller like Padua) for a few nights before returning to Venice for remaining nights before your flight back to Paris

Does your Venice accommodation offer a late check in for 20-30 Euros? Might be worth it. Eliminates the hotel in Mestre.
When I was looking at having to arrive in Venice after 7pm, I looked at accommodations that offered just that. Our plans have changed significantly since then, but I thought it a good investment if we needed to do it to mesh with our arrival time.
I believe it is ACTV Bus #5 from Marco Polo to Piazzale Roma for 6Euros for the easiest transport. Don’t quote me on that price. There is also a ATVO bus-more of a private company I think, that costs around 8Euros. They run 20-30 minutes on the one way trip. Don’t know how often they depart from Marco Polo, but it’s often enough that you aren’t waiting a long time.

I am thinking I will go to Paris 2 days earlier. That's why I'm questioning the time of flight. Yes, the 11 am flight is better. I may still go to Padua for a day or Trevisio. Another question, do the Vaporetto lines only go down the Grand Canel? I was thinking with the pass you could go many places on them.

Download a picture of the vaporetto routes. There are maybe 15 or more different routes.
Download the app chebateo. It links to the vap routes and timetables.

Map here
https://www.venice.nu/maps/vaporetto-map/

Aussie, thanks for that.