Traffic Violation Florence

A few years ago, we received a speeding ticket passed on to us from our car rental company for speeding on a highway outside Marseilles. Did your ticket come from the rental car company? I would reach out to them for clarification before paying anything.

Car rental agencies do not issue traffic tickets but they do charge you when they have to turn your info in to the police.
That is usually the first indication that a ticket is on its way

Sounds like you have several violations
-driving in bus lane, entering ZTLs, etc

This topic comes up occasionally

https://search.ricksteves.com/?button=&date_range=2y&filter=Travel+Forum&query=Traffic+violations+

Where I live, October was 9 months ago. It's not unusual for tickets to take that long to arrive. And if DHL delivered the envelope, then the delivery date would be available to the sender.

Looks like you were caught probably driving in a bus lane on the first count, and driving in a ZTL on the other 2. Do you pay traffic fines that you get at home? Then why not also pay those gotten when abroad? Up to you whether you want to be a scofflaw or not. Yours is not an unusual situation. Many foreign drivers who haven't learned the traffic laws in Italy make the same mistakes.

The traffic camera got you -- more than once. We have not had this discussion for awhile but Italy is fairly aggressive in the collection of fines. If it goes unpaid and previous patterns are followed, it will be turned over to a US collection agency. Common understanding is that the collection agency cannot get a judgement against you BUT -- they can list it on your credit report and it can be a hassle to resolve. Some will say, pay it and treat it as a learning experience, and other will say ignore it. It is pain -- Good luck.

This is one reason that I would never rent a car to drive in Italy again.
I drove my POV back when I was stationed with the Army in Germany, but things are different now.

I got a ticket for driving into a ZTL in Florence in September 2001. The ticket arrived from the local government, not from the rental agency, about 11 months after the infraction. After much debate, I ended up doing nothing. I've rented cars in Italy more than a dozen times since then. However, that's only my personal experience, and this was also many years ago, so who knows.. Do you live near an Italian consulate by any chance?

Hi René,

I hope it all resolves to your satisfaction, whatever response you decide to do or not do. I do have a couple of questions, if you’d be willing to share:

1) Whatever happened with your previous situation in Spain? Did you take your friend’s recommendation to ignore it? Did you get any notice afterwards from any collection agency in the USA? Were there ever follow-ups from anybody, and when did they stop coming?

2) As mentioned by ChristineH above, once the authorities in Florence determine that a car identified on a traffic cam belongs to a rental company, they contact that company to determine who was renting at the time. The rental company passes on the name and contact information of their customer, and then charges the customer for the time it takes to research and forward those details to the authorities. Did you receive any additional charge from your rental company, sometime between last October and now?

1 b lane incursion and two ZTL incursions, it seems. The minimum fine is 83€ so it appears about right. Is the sender the Polizia Municipale di Firenze or just the rental agency notifying you they communicated your name to the authorities? From the description you give it appears it’s the former.

The City of Florence is one jurisdiction that assigns unpaid fines to a Credit Collection agency part of an international network. So if you don’t pay, you will likely be contacted by a credit collection agency in the future. They will likely ask amounts that are 5 to over 10 times the fine.

Thanks so much for all your thoughtful responses to my inquire.
Great and useful help. I will follow Roberto’s advice and wait for a contact by a credit agency and if that’s the case send them a Cease or Desist letter.

Roberto, I searched for the Cease or Desist letter in this forum but without success.
Could it be possible to give me a link to get it?
I may never need it but just in case I am contacted by the collection agency I’ll be prepared.

Thaks in advance and once again thanks to all.

René Reyes

Why not just pay the fine?
Would you ignore a ticket in your own country and just refuse to pay?

I don’t think Roberto is advising you to not pay the fine as that would be against forum guidelines

The document doesn’t look like what you’d see in the US because it is from Italy

Why not pay the fine and get it over with, and not have it on your conscience forever.
What would you do in your hometown?

But beware that if they tag your credit report, it will take a lot of effort to remove it. That is the great threat (and the gamble) especially if you are planning a major financial move in the near future.

A recent poster figured out how to pay the darn thing
.https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/ztl-violations

Why not just pay the fine?

I agree with this.

Just consider it one of the potential costs of renting vehicles in Europe...

There is no such a thing as a fine for going 38 km/h on a 35 km/h zone. Speed limits in Italy are multiples of 10 (30, 40, 50, etc.) and the fine is triggered when driving over 5% of the speed limit or 5 km/h, whichever is greater. So if the speed limit is 50 km/h the fine is triggered at 56 km/h or more. If the speed limit is 130 km/h the fine is triggered at 137 km/h or more.

Whether you decide to pay or not is entirely your decision. If you don’t pay, the consequence is that you may be contacted by a credit collection agency in the future, depending on whether the Italian authority decides to assign the debt to a collection agency or not. Obviously the Credit Collection agency will try to extort an amount much larger than the fine.

The Cease and Desist letter is an instrument contemplated by the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act to stop credit collection agencies from contacting a debtor, it has nothing to do with letters going to the Italian authorities. You can Google it and find plenty of information, and even templates online. That of course is a step one considers only after being contacted by collection agencies, and for any type of debt.

Once it goes to a collection agency, it affects your credit and even if you do send the agency a cease and desist letter, most of the damage will already have been done. You can't send it to the Firenze institution because US law has no validity in Italy and they can legally ignore it.

This happened to me in England. I was received a ticket from the car rental agency about 5-6 months after I got back, which they got from the city of Plymouth. The ticket was for driving in a bus lane. My defense is that it was raining, I'd never been in that area before, and I was only in it for about 30 seconds. However, my defense doesn't matter because I still violated the existing traffic law.

I agree with the others. Pay the fine. You rented a car and you violated a traffic law. You now owe them money. You might want to look at Wise for purposes of sending money overseas. It's easy and cheaper than wiring money. I used them recently to send money to a tour guide in Romania for a deposit. I think I paid around $1.75 to send €364.

Always pay your fines.

And I agree with everything Mardee just said with a tiny exception.

I believe it will not ding your credit score.

https://www.consumerreports.org/credit-scores-reports/credit-score-myths-what-hurts-you-what-doesnt/

Above is a consumer reports piece that talks about US traffic fines. I believe it also true for foreign fines.

In any case, paying your fines is the right thing to do.

Happy travels.

It amazes me when people get a ticket/fine and ask if they should pay it or ignore it. Just be honest and do the right thing. We got a ticket last year in Varenna (Lake Como) when the parking garage was full and the attendant told us to park along the side of the road and we would be fine. When we returned, every car parked on that road had a ticket. I immediately paid it online while my husband was driving following the instructions on the website that was on the ticket. By paying for it right away, it was around $28. We felt like it was a set up being told to park there, but we felt good we did the right thing and paid for it.

I have a similar question about a speeding ticket in Firenze. The notice states the following:

"Art. 142 C 7: The driver was driving the vehicle at a speed of 71 km/h exceeding by no more than 10 km/h the fixed speed limit of 70 km/h for that stretch of road (applying a 5% tolerance with a minimum of 5km/h for a speed <= 100 Km/h to 76.00km/h detected by a speed detection device). "

The way I read this is. I was driving at 71 km/h in a 70 km/h zone. There is a 5% tolerance on the detected speed. 70 + 5% =73.5. Since 71 km/h is less than 73.5 km/h, I should not be ticketed.

Am I reading this correctly? If so, I am planning on appealing the ticket. Not going to ignore it, that's just poor form.

Thanks in advance.

Ray

I’d like to know what the notice says in its entirety in Italian, not what Google might tell you it says. Sometimes Google mistranslates the legalese. If the speed limit is 70km/h the ticket is issued only if the autovelox machine detects a speed of 76km/h and over (the violation is sanctioned if the speed is 5% above the speed limit or above 5km/h, whichever is greater, so in the case of 70 km/h speed limit there is a tolerance of up to 75 km/h then at 76 km/h the ticket is issued).

So, the notice has two pages: One in Italian and one in English. The text I wrote above is the actual english text from the official notice, not a Google translation (unless that is what they used). For completeness, here is the actual Italian text:

"Art. 142 C. 7: Conduceva il veicolo indicato alla velocità a 71 Km/h superando cosi di non oltre Km/h 10 il limite massimo fissato in 70 Km/h per quel tratte di strada (applicata la tolleranza del 5% con un minimo di 5 km/h per velocità <= 100 Km/h dal dato di 76.00 km/h registrato dallo strumento)"

I wonder whether the citation means the actual speed limit was 65 kph, you could get away with 70 km/h due to the 5 km/h allowance, but you were driving 71 km/h. I have no idea whether there's such a thing as a 65 km/h speed limit in Italy.

Sometimes I think Italians go the extra way to use the most hermetic burocratese possible. I had to read it twice to figure out what it meant.

This is what actually the notice says in Italian (in simpler understandable language):

The speed violation applied is 71 km/h, but that is the net speed after the deduction of the 5 km/h tolerance as the speed actually recorded by the device was 76 km/h.

Since the net speed violation of 71 km/h is less than 10km/h above the posted speed limit of 70 km/h they applied the lower minimum fine (if you had exceeded the speed limit by 10 to 40 km/h they would have applied a much stiffer penalty).

Sorry to change/add to this topic but it seems to be appropriate given the topic. I have driven in Italy before many years ago but not within the past 15 years. We are planning a trip now for May 2026 with a car for part of the trip. I completely understand the ZTL violations and how to (attempt) avoid those, I get the bus lane violations, but speeding? Where are the speeding camera's posted (within cities or autostrada) Do they have signs indicating the cameras are present? I know in my state (NC), they tried these for a while then had so many legal issues with them, they stopped using camera's for speed enforcement. I'm sure many US States have them though (great revenue source!). I'm just trying to be as well informed as possible before I get behind the wheel in Italy! Thanks!

The stretches of roads subject to camera speed recording are signaled, however they could be long stretches and it doesn’t mean there will actually be a camera there, the sign simply says ZONE SUBJECT TO ELECTRONIC SPEED RECORDING.

The best way to avoid being fined is to drive below the speed limit, of course. However you can use a navigator like Google Maps and especially Waze (heavily used by Italian motorists), which will warn you of the actual upcoming hidden cameras as well as police checks. Be aware that Italian police may stop you for routine checks along the road even if you have not committed any violation, but just to check you background and the car’s papers. In the US that is considered unconstitutional unless there is reasonable suspicion of a crime having been committed by the car occupants, or unless the driver has committed a traffic violation, but in Italy that is perfectly legal and actually a rather frequent occurrence.
They just pull you over using the red disk below

https://share.google/v4z691AeWWDy2ANq5

Almost any major road leading into Florence has at least two speed radars, one for the incoming and one for the outgoing traffic. Remember that once you are in the urban area (that is, as soon as you see the city name sign) the speed limit drops to 50 km/h, sometimes 70 km/h but only if explicitly stated. It is very easy to get a fine entering the city as you are coming from higher speeds and the speed limit begins suddenly.

I spent more than a little time driving in Puglia (southern Italy) in the past few weeks. I was (as best I can tell) successful in avoiding any active ZTLs (I did enter a few of ZTLs: one, during hours it clearly stated it was NOT active and was "open"; and a couple others under the supervision of, and with instructions from, my accommodations - they took photos of our license plate and entered it with the city to "bless" our being there).

I'm pretty sure we will not get any ZTL fines next year. I'm a bit less confident about speeding tickets.

I drove a lot on the autostradas. I was always watching for signs indicating speed being "electronically controlled" and almost always downshifted and slowed to be sure I was below the posted speed limits. It's possible I missed it by half a minute here and there, as the signs posting lower speeds popped up (with impossibly slow speeds) in places where the traffic was all going 2X that posted speed. I did notice that there were lots and lots of signs warning that speed was "electronically controlled" but just a small number of signs showing the "camera" symbol and more explicit warnings about speed cameras (I took those more seriously slowed down quickly for them). I did spot a few of the threatened cameras but sometimes I only saw the signs. The third classification of speed camera warnings carried a more ominous term - something that translated to "speed tutorial" - I took this to mean "we're looking for someone to teach a lesson" so I tried not to get schooled.

It seemed like only tourists reacted to these signs and took them seriously. All the German-manufactured cars with "D" license plates just blew through at 2X or 3X the posted speeds (kind of reminded me of drivers at home - I guess BMW and Audi owners drive at predictable speeds worldwide...).

I was pretty good about driving at or below the speed limits, especially when there were clear warning signs. But I'll admit there were places where the posted speed limit just seemed absolutely absurd: eg imagine a US Interstate Highway (or something like it), obviously built for high speed and limited access - but with a speed limit posted in the range 40-50 km/hr (roughly 25-30 mph). The German cars were blowing past me routinely at 120-160 km/hr and occasionally much faster, like I was standing still. This was not in a construction zone, not in a city, conditions appeared perfect. I was clearly annoying other drivers and honestly, the speed difference was so great I was creating a hazard. I figured if they were shooting past me at over 110 km/hr, they must have known that there were no cameras nearby, so sometimes I just shrugged and wound up to 80, 90 or 100 km/hr and crossed my fingers.

I guess I am going on faith - and "the wisdom of crowds" (or at least the preference of BMW drivers to avoid expensive speeding tickets). Hoping I don't get a ticket next year. If I do, maybe I should forward it to some BMW or Audi owners' association.

I believe the "tutor" cameras are positioned in pairs. They calculate the average speed you drove between two fixed points, and you get a ticket if you were going too fast. They catch people who slow down only as they pass the camera positions, then speed up immediately afterward.

I wouldn’t go by what the Germans do. The Italian media is full of articles of city officials complaining that the Germans don’t pay tickets collected in Italy (I guess the credit collection agencies there are not as effective at collecting and maybe there isn’t even a mechanism to report bad credit to credit bureaus).

My suggestion to all of those who intend to drive in Italy is to rely on the advice of Waze. That is what some Italian friends (some truck drivers and taxi drivers) told me. They swear by Waze. A friend of mine drives like a maniac even at 150km/h on the road while his daughter navigates the Waze and tells him when to slow down before an upcoming camera.

So far no speed tickets for me in many years driving in Italy since they introduced those devilish machines (maybe 30 years ago).

I got the exact same ticket just across the river from Florence, when bringing a rental car back to Florence. I first got a notice of the ticket and a fine from the rental car company, maybe a month after returning home. We also got 2 other fines for the same infraction, one from the city of Firenze, and another I think from the provincial or regional gov't. It took 11 months to get these other 2 fines, and we were returning to Italy 1 month after that, so we paid the fines (online) to make sure we didn't have any legal issues entering the country again.

BTW, I researched and identified the location where the photo camera got me, then went to that spot using the Google Maps peg man, and I could barely see the faded yellow lines outlining the lane reserved for public vehicles, which I supposedly drove in.

Well, Thank you for the interpretation of the notice. Going to pay it right now.

Hello,
This is exactly why I do not rent a car while in Europe. Public Transportation is fantastic and who needs the headaches or fines for accidently driving thru restricted areas. Especially years later.

There are locations or circumstances where a car is more efficient or even absolutely necessary (e.g. an agriturismo farm stay).

There is no reason to go to the extreme of relying exclusively on public transportation

I wouldn’t go to England or Australia and drive on the right side of the road just because that is how we drive in my country. One has to educate him/herself on what the rules of the road are in other countries, like with everything else. Relying on public transportation only is not 100% fool proof either. The only fine I ever got in my travels was riding the RER outside of Paris with a ticket valid only within the Paris city limits. My fault. I should have educated myself better. Lots of tourists get fined in public transportation too, and occasionally we see posts here about those occurrences. Things don’t work the same way everywhere.

When you travel abroad you are not in Kansas anymore and that yellow brick lane to the Emerald City center might as well be a bus lane enforced by a camera

Public transport in Europe is very good; however, for the trip my family of six just took, the places we stayed, and health concerns for one of my children, public transport was not a viable option.

Thank you all again for the help with the ticket. I paid the fine on-line. Simple process.