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ZTL violations

We’ve been home from Italy for about 5 months and the dreaded ticket came in the mail this past Monday. First, let me assure you, we take driving anywhere, especially in a foreign country seriously. My husband drives, I navigate. We don't drive around ignoring local laws. While my husband drives, I'm navigating, watching for signs, making sure we don't hit pedestrians, bikers, etc. and looking for a place to park. We know there are certain areas we are not supposed to drive and we watch for them. We've driven in Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, various Caribbean islands, France, Germany, Portugal, Luxembourg, Spain, Belgium, Italy (including Sicily), probably more.
Our nemesis is Gubbio, in Umbria. It took me a while to figure out what city that was, and I had to look thru photos to figure out what may have happened. There was massive construction in city center, it was market day. We were trying to find parking and using google maps. The violation was at 10:40 am, which coincides with us looking for parking.
Personally, it really stinks, because their city center was a MESS! We now regret going there. None the less, apparently we committed an infraction and we JUST WANT TO PAY FOR IT.
I consider the forum my travel friends. You all have helped me with many trips, and I feel we are rather experienced travelers at this point, thanks to the forum. First, I thought, I will go see if my friends can help me with this ticket. I did a search on the forum. I saw enough negative, condescending comments about ZTL infractions that I sure wasn't going to make a post. To be fair, there were some good suggestions from folks that always try to be helpful--Acraven, Roberto, etc. In lieu of a post, I messaged some folks. Low and behold, there is a fair number of very experienced travelers that have also received tickets and have also struggled to figure out how to pay them. To be perfectly clear, we are not trying to evade payment.
Nothing on the notice is clear. I don't speak Italian, not their fault, mine. But, I struggled with google translate. Next, if its paid in five days, the fee is 30%. OK, well, tell me how to pay. It doesn't say if its five days from receipt, five days from when its sent, five business days OR WHAT? I immediately sent several emails. Nobody responds! Then I notice there is some kind of online system. I again start searching the forum. Today, which is the 4th day from receipt, I started to try to pay it online. They won't take U.S. credit cards. (U.S. credit cards are accepted by merchants, etc., in Italy, so they could, I imagine, figure out how to take our credit cards) I noted that some on the forum recommended WISE and PAYPAL. The Umbria system doesn't accept WISE as an option. I then look to my Paypal account which I haven't used in many years. I updated the credit cards and tried to use it. Over and over it wasn't accepted. I sat on hold for two hours with Paypal to find out that because my account hasn't been used in ages, it rejected an international payment, and now my account is frozen for 72 hours.
So, at that point, I was at a loss. I don't have friends in Italy. I contacted B&B we stayed at in Orvieto. She suggested that since I've made a good faith attempt, to forget about it. Well, that's not who we are, we pay our fines. Secondly, we don't want to come back to Italy and not be able to rent a car or worse, get arrested. Italy is not a country I want to mess with. So, I expressed my concerns. This lovely, kind woman is going to go to the Orvieto police department to see if she can't help.
To, sum up, don't bother to email, don't bother trying credit cards, look to see if WISE is accepted, paypal might work if you have an active account. And, if you want a great BnB in Orvieto, steps away from the cathedral with the nicest host, I recommend La Magnolia. And now, I am going to have a couple glasses of CALIFORNIA wine.

EDIT: SEE UPDATE BELOW

Posted by
3068 posts

So sorry—not just about the fine— but for all the time you’ve already put into resolving this mess. So friggin’ frustrating, Jules. Do they want you to wire the money?! Do they not want you to have the fine reduced to 30% so they can collect 100%?! Maybe it’s some sort of University study on human reactions to the intentional infliction of emotional distress on tourists. One would almost hope…
I’m renting cars this September in northern Italy and Puglia, and will be watching to see what our knowledgeable colleagues suggest for a solution.
And I’m not driving anywhere near Gubbio.

Posted by
3068 posts

From what I have read, the letter you received from the police/authorities in Italy is required—under Italian law,—to be a registered letter for the fine to be legally enforceable. I didn’t catch that you mentioned that it did arrive “registered.”
If the letter did not arrive registered or certified—you may be off the hook.

Posted by
7580 posts

Isn't it a simple bank transfer? There should be an IBAN-number somewhere.

Posted by
22279 posts

Simple bank transfers do not exist in the USA. The fact that there is a currency exchange complicates it. Wise is the best and cheapest wire transfer service with built in currency exchange.
https://wise.com/

Posted by
7201 posts

The Umbria online system doesn’t have WISE as an option, unless there is a way to input it under some other name. Also, I don’t have a Wise account but I would guess it is easily obtained. I look at this again.

As I think more on this, at one point. It asks for a tax number. I filled the field with eleven zeros. Then later in the process, it actually said, if there isn’t a tax number to fill it with ANONO (or something similar) I would guess that this could be a possible issue.

Oh, and another thing I did, suggested by PayPal was to drive to a Walmart and deposit cash into my PayPal account (of course for a fee) so that the transaction would be pulling from a balance instead of a credit or debit card.

Posted by
35247 posts

wise isn't like a payment method the Umbria folks need to worry about, although you do get a card number which they may not want - just like a different credit card. What they also do excellently is take money from you and pay it in a bank transfer to Umbria in Euro. To them it is just like a bank transfer from any other bank, but fees and exchange rate are far superior.

I've never known anybody fail with an international payment through Wise.

I used to use them a lot but no longer move money internationally, although I still have the account.

Posted by
7201 posts

I have the following options on the Umbria online payment system (pagoumbria)
Credit or Debit Card
Apple Pay
Bancomat Pay
Conto Banca Popolare di Sondrio
Conto BancoPosta
Conto BancoPosta Impresa
Conto ICONTO
Conto Intesa Sanpaolo
My Bank
Paga con Postepay
Paypal (anche in 3 rate)
Satispay

@Kenko, I'm not sure if it would be considered certified or not. A pinky/orangish card labeled Posteitaliane was attached to the back of the envelope. We didn't sign for it, it was with the rest of our mail

Posted by
7201 posts

GAME CHANGER: On an internet search, I found out that I can wire money thru Charles Schwab for free 3 times a month. We only use Schwab for travel cash, so our balance is not high enough for a free transfer, so I need to wait until Monday, to move money. Over the phone the Schwab rep, walked me thru how to do the wire transfer. I'm not sure I have all the details I need (BIC/SWIFT), but my Orvieto contact said she will get that from the Orvieto police department. She assumes it is easy enough for them to get the info from the Gubbio police

Incidentally, I only have a Schwab account because forum folks recommended it for the free ATM withdrawals. So far, I've got to say, it was well worth setting up the account. Our account was hacked on our recent trip, but Schwab had that resolved in about 30 hours. Schwab customer service is excellent. So I highly recommend Schwab

Posted by
6481 posts

Jules, thanks for sharing and sorry for the frustration and lost time. Italy is beautiful and has its charms, but its bureaucracy is not one of them. My SIL was in the Air Force and lived in Italy for a total of seven years. He said even paying a residential water bill was a challenge. So the maddening systems also frustrate residents. As the surrounding countries modernize their various systems with new technologies, seems Italy continues with how it has always done things, even if they work poorly.
Good luck!

Posted by
7201 posts

@Pat, this ties to your comment. I had posted on Gubbio facebook government page to try to get some help. This comment was posted to mine, I used google translate and deleted my name, " MY NAME DELETED, found herself in the most beautiful city but the most poorly governed for the past 15 years, a city where even we who live here no longer know where to put a vehicle or which road to take! Even the honorable Tajani couldn't provide any guidance! I apologize for asking him!!!! "

Posted by
6481 posts

Jules, thanks and very interesting. Keep us updated.