5 weeks in Northern Italy - Itinerary thoughts please?

Isn’t it wonderful to have the flexibility of time-5 weeks! Yea!

My take is:

• Add one night to Verona-allows for a full 2 days there
• Dolomites-subtract a night unless you plan on lots of hiking. Yes, a car could be valuable. Ortisei, Santa Cristina and Selva di Val Gardena
• Add one night to F/V/G retaining the car-lots of locations to drive to. Probably would turn the car back in and use trains from this stage.
• Padua and environs-add 2 nights doing day trips to Treviso and Vicenza? Ditch the car at the start here or earlier.
• Bologna-add at least 2 nights and better at 3 nights. Use one day for Ravenna and another to take the highly regarded Italian days.com tour for the 3 foodies-balsamic, parmeggiano-reggiano and Parma ham. Train is excellent here.
• Venice-add as many nights as you have left. It takes some getting used to and time is an important asset.

Buon viaggio!

Thanks for the ideas, @SJS! I'll look into these.

Sept 6: regional train to Milan

Do you really want to get on that "Bernina" train the day you arrive?
Won't you be jet lagged?- I'd fall right asleep. And flight delays are always a possibility, you could miss your train.

Treviso/Vicenza/Padua (3 nights) – Stay in one location. Car? Train?
Parma/Ferrara/Bologna/Ravenna (3-4 nights) – Stay in one location.
Car? Train?

All easily done by train

Good question, @ChristineH! As it turns out, we have two things that I hope are in our favor there: 1) we were able to snag business class tickets for our flights using long-saved miles so we have lie-flat seats and can to sleep en route; and 2) I believe the regional trains run more often than the "official" Bernina Express, so we should be able to take a later train if we're delayed.

Thanks for the train info on Treviso/Vicenza/Padua and Parma/Ferrara/Bologna/Ravenna!

We were in Italy for just shy of three months last summer. As part of that trip, we stayed in Treviso (4 weeks), Padua (3 nights), and Venice (4 nights). We also took day trips to Verona, Udine (in FVG), and Modena (from our other base in Mantua).

We enjoyed Treviso, but if I had to pick between Treviso and Padua, I'd absolutely do Padua. Padua has much better sights, and the market and cafe scene is incredible.

Udine was AMAZING. The FVG region had never been on my radar before, but now I'm kicking myself for never exploring more of that region before. It's definitely on our list for a future trip.

Loved Verona (once you get past the tour buses of people who are only interested in "Juliet" sights) and I wish we'd had more time there. Loved Modena. (If you have Netflix, there's a travel show "Somebody Feed Phil" where he visits Modena - we went to the balsamic vinegar shop featured in that show and it is, indeed, incredible.)

Personally, I'd get tired of having to pack up and move every 3-4 nights. I would allocate your additional nights to extend some of your 3 night stays to 5 or even 6 nights. Even if a place doesn't "need" more nights, sometimes it's nice to be able to settle in for just a bit longer, especially since you do have the time. I think you could easily stay in whatever base you chose for Parma/Ferrara/Bologna/Ravenna for a week and use the extra time to do day trips.

Sounds like a great trip, I hope you'll do a trip report when you come back!

@Erin E,
Thanks so much for the info! Some follow-up questions:

• would you suggest Bologna or Modena for the base for Parma/Modena/Bologna/Ferrara/Ravenna, or possible use both Modena and Ravenna to minimize travel time? Should we include Mantova in this group?
• for FVG, use Udine as a base? What places did you enjoy going to there?
• sounds like you think Padova is the best base choice for Treviso/Vicenza/Padova?

How wonderful you could spend 4 weeks in the same spot! That would be amazing. This is as close as we can get to having quality time in each spot. Any suggestions of what to see/do and where to eat/stay in these various locations would be much appreciated. I've been looking at various things but always appreciate suggestions.

For the Dolomites a car is very handy. Driving the absolutley spectacular Dolomite passes is always a thrill for us. Plus the up close scenery, the walks and hikes among the peaks. Along the Gardena and Sella and Giau passes you’ll find a cafe/rest stop at the “top” of the passes.

While we like the Val Gardena, we prefer Alta Badia (La Villa in particular) as a central base in the Dolomites. There’s no need to split your time between between two different bases. Pick one location for 5 nights. Rainy day options are going to Bolzano and seeing the amazing “Ice Man” exhibit or Brixen and its fascinating Diocean Museum. Both are nice old towns to stroll in any weather. Closer is the cute old town of Chiusa/Klausen.

Be prepared for towns to be signed in at least German name and Italian name.

Bozen/Bolzano
Brixen/Bressanone
Klausen/Chiusa
Stern/La Villa
St, Ulrich/Ortisei
And so on.

www.Montanara.it

By the way, Sept and Oct are the best time to visit the Dolomites!

Paul

Totally concur with Paul about having a rental car in the Dolomites. Public transit is good, but its frequencies start to lessen in fall. He mentioned rainy days--which unfortunately occur from time to time in the mountains. I was there for one week and had five days of sun. Bought the 3-day Val Gardena pass and utilized it to the fullest extent.

Yes, we had an amazing time! I'm a remote worker, so I'm fortunate my employer is willing to let me also work remotely from other countries as well. Since I was working, we didn't have quite as much sightseeing time as I would have liked, but it was still a great experience, and I'm certainly not complaining.

• Unfortunately, I haven't been back to Bologna since 2008 when I was living in Florence for a semester study abroad. I enjoyed it then, and I know people love it. Bologna is bigger than Modena and has better transportation connections (and makes Ravenna a doable day-trip), so I'd probably chose that as my base.
• We did Udine as a day trip from Treviso, and that's the only city we've visited in FVG, so I don't have any comparison. But I think it would make a good base. Trieste is also on my list to visit. In Udine, we ate at L'Alimentare which was a combo grocery store/prepared food counter/simple restaurant. I can't remember what I had, but it was delicious. We spent time wandering through the town, sitting at a cafe under the arcade, and visiting the Tiepolo museum (Rococo isn't my style, but the museum was good and my son enjoyed it). We also visited the church.
• Yes, I would chose Padova as a base for that region over Treviso (full disclosure: I've never been to Vicenza). Treviso worked well for us, but it's much smaller, with less to do. I think there's enough to do in Padova to keep you busy for 1-1.5 days, then you could use the other day for a trip to Vicenza or Treviso if you wanted. In Padova, our favorite places to eat were from the little stalls in the covered market and the surrounding bars. Giotto's frescoes and the Basilica are (in my very humble opinion) must-sees.

Hope that was somewhat helpful!

Many thanks to @Paul, @Barkinpark, and @ErinE for your insights. I have updated the original post to take into account the generous feedback from everyone who took the time to comment!

Here is our updated plan. We continue to welcome all the suggestions and feedback!!

• Sept 6: regional train to Milan (stay 2 nights). See Duomo (rooftop tour), cemetery, possibly Last Supper tour (Train)
• Sept 8: train to Verona (4 nights). This is out of logical order for the rest of the trip, but we have tickets to the final performance of the Verona Opera Festival on Sept 9. Day trip to Lago Garda? (Train)
• Lake District (4 nights) – stay in both Varenna & Stressa? Visit Lago d"orta & Lago d'Iseo if time permits. Mostly relaxing by the lake & visiting beautiful gardens/houses. (Trains/buses/boats to get around and between the lakes. Pick up a rental car somewhere)
• Dolomites (5 nights) – stay in Ortisei area. Visit Alpe di Suisi, Bolzano (Ötzi), Castelrotto, Cordina d"Ampezzo. Ride the gondolas up, find the easier treks down. Be entranced by the mountains! (Car)
• Friuli Venezia Giulia (5 nights) – I read a great article about this region and it sounds like a fun place to explore. Stay in Udine? Visit Trieste? (Car. Drop off car before next step?)
• Treviso/Vicenza/Padova (4 nights) – Stay in Padova? Scovergni Chapel/Baptistry/Museum, Bassano del Grappa (Train?)
• Parma/Modena/Ferrara/Bologna/Ravenna (5 nights) – Stay in both Modena & Ravenna? Ravenna mosaics, Italian Food Days tour (Train)
• Venice (5 nights) – Burano, behind-the-scenes tour of Doges Palace, getting lost on purpose! Depart from Venice.

I think you may find this to be an interesring area to explore. Between Val Gardena and Cortina.

https://lagazuoi.it/index_en.php

https://www.earthtrekkers.com/hiking-the-lagazuoi-tunnels-dolomites/

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g2431603-d1858751-Reviews-Passo_Giau-Colle_Santa_Lucia_Province_of_Belluno_Veneto.html

https://wanderyourway.com/passo-gardena-one-of-the-most-beautiful-drives-in-italy/

This sounds like a great trip.

You don't have an excessive (to me) amount of lake time, but if you do everything listed (or even just most of it), you're going to be doing a lot of hopping from lake to lake. I'd concentrate on no more than two lakes, I think, unless you suddenly find yourselves with a need for a change of scenery (or if there is very localized bad weather). I've been to Stresa/Lake Maggiore twice but only briefly to Lake Garda and really only spent a night in transit in Como, so I'm not the best one to help you narrow things down. However, I think seeing the Borromean Isles is the biggest reason to go to Stresa, so I'd plan to spend enough time there to accomplish that, if you go.

I'm a public-transit person and would plan a lake trip not requiring a car, but I'd also check carefully on how to move from lake to lake. You won't have the boat option then, and some of the train/bus connections may be thornier than others, which would help you trim the itinerary if you decide you want to do that.

Lots of things in Italy seem to be selling out earlier than usual this year. The Secret Itineraries Tour at the Doge's Palace has always been something that needed to be booked early. Stay on top of that so you don't miss out. You might also want to get an advance ticket for St. Mark's so you don't have to stand in the ticket line. The line moved fast for me last September, but it still took 30 minutes, and I bet Venice is busier this year.

As for the mountain walking: There are opportunities for walks that are virtually level, and I commend them to your attention. I made the incredibly stupid decision to walk down to the next lift station rather than riding on one of my trips into the mountains, and I ended up with two badly sprained ankles, despite having a walking stick and good shoes and trying to be very careful. I was really afraid I'd end up spending the night on the mountain. Be cautious; stop and ask for advice. If you head down what turns out to be a steep slope, you may have difficulty getting back up if you decide continuing downhill is too treacherous.

With the amount of city-to-city travel time involved, I think 5 nights may be short for Parma, Modena, Ferrara, Bologna and Ravenna, though I've only visited the last two. Ravenna has enough to fill two full days, though most visitors focus on just the most-famous seven or so mosaic sites. But I really enjoyed the historic center and other places in town, including the mosaic museum. Sant'Appollinare in Classe is a bus or train ride away (albeit a short one), so it takes a bit of time. I'd want to spend two nights in Ravenna and would hope to have a bit of time on the arrival and/or departure day to see some of the extras. Bologna has a truly huge medieval center and is certainly worth at least a full day. Ferrara sounds like it has a lot to see. Perhaps the existence of some direct trains between Ravenna and Ferrar will be helpful; the generally take about 1-1/4 hours.

@Paul and @acraven, thank you both for your awesome info! I continue to be so grateful for the advice and suggestions we've received and the time taken to do so. [hand resting on heart] Any and all feedback is much appreciated!

Based on everyone's input, we've tweaked the outline again as follows: give a Verona night to the Lake District, give a FVG night to the P/M/B/F/R group. So we now look like this:

• Sept 6: regional train to Milan (stay 2 nights). See Duomo (rooftop tour), cemetery, possibly Last Supper tour (Train)
• Sept 8: train to Verona (3 nights). This is out of logical order for the rest of the trip, but we have tickets to the final performance of the Verona Opera Festival on Sept 9. Day trip to Lago Garda? (Train)
• Lake District (5 nights) – 3 nights in Varenna, 2 nights in Stressa. Borromean Isles, relaxing by the lake. (Trains/buses/boats to get around and between the lakes. Pick up a rental car somewhere)
• Dolomites (5 nights) – stay in Ortisei area. Visit Alpe di Suisi, Bolzano (Ötzi), Castelrotto, Cordina d"Ampezzo. Ride the gondolas up, find the easier treks, be entranced by the mountains! (Car)
• Friuli Venezia Giulia (4 nights) – I read a great article about this region and it sounds like a fun place to explore. Stay in Udine? Visit Trieste? (Car. Drop off car before next step?)
• Treviso/Vicenza/Padova (4 nights) – Stay in Padova? Scovergni Chapel/Baptistry/Museum, Bassano del Grappa (Train?)
• Parma/Modena/Ferrara/Bologna/Ravenna (6 nights) – 3 nights in both Modena & Ravenna. Ravenna mosaics, Italian Food Days tour (Train)
• Venice (5 nights) – Burano, behind-the-scenes tour of Doges Palace, getting lost on purpose! Depart from Venice.

Any thoughts on where we should get/drop a car?

In the Dolomites, do not miss the Tre Cime hike if weather permits. There is no need to stay at Cortina per se; it's a base for Tre Cime and ski runs.

I am late to the party, but I cannot help making a strong recommendation, based on our numerous trips and experiences in the Dolomites and northern Italy over the past 20 years.

Verona is not “out of logical order” at all, it is right where it should be. and positions you perfectly for visiting the most beautiful of the Italian Lakes (in our opinion anyway), Lago di Garda.

You are fortunate to be able to attend an opera in the Verona arena; we have done that twice and treasure our memories of the experience. What opera is it? Are you buying seats on the main floor or on the stone seats? We do the latter, despite the slight discomfort, but feel we get the best view of the whole scene there. But it is not for everyone.

If you go from Verona back to Milan to reach Varenna, and then transfer to Stresa (via Milan, I believe) you will have to return to Verona to get to the Dolomites. Instead, you could rent your car for the Dolomites at Verona and head straight to Malcescine on Lago di Garda.

https://lakegardatravel.net/malcesine-italy/

We enjoy Varenna when it fits into our trips, but to my mind it cannot compare to Malcescine for scenery and opportunities. And it is close to the Dolomites for the next stage of your trip.

Just a thought.

@barkinpark,
Thanks for the trek recommendation. We will check out Tre Cime.

@lola:

Yes, I was thrilled to learn that the 100th anniversary of the Summer Opera Festival occurred this year! We are in time for the very last performance on Sept 9 (La Traviata, a fav). We purchased seats in the Verdi section, row 7. I imagine anywhere in the arena is amazing - I'm sooo looking forward to this! (Have you been to the operas offered at St Mark's Anglican church in Florence? Absolutely sublime!)

The logistics of getting from Verona to either Stressa or Varenna is still a sticky wicket. I have read that one does not want to have a car in the Lake District, and that there are inter-lake buses/trains that one can use. I admit that I haven't researched that enough yet. We want to have a car in the Dolomites and FVG, but likely don't need it after that. Where to pick up the car, and where to drop it off? That is the question. I would have preferred to go to the Lake District after Milano and before the Dolomites (hence my comment about "out of order"), but the opera precludes that. I cannot figure out another place to logically put the Lake District except after Verona.

Glad to hear Lago Garda is as beautiful as I've read. I've heard that Sirmione is lovely; I hadn't heard of Malcescine. Is that a better spot to visit for our day trip? We're hoping to make the better part of a day at the lake, but also know that folks are telling us not to shortchange Verona. (I already stole one night from there to add to the Lake District.)

Thanks again to you both!

Scratch this - I was right in the first place. You'd think I'd know that September has 30 days after all these years! (Seriously... SMH)

Ooh, we have an extra day! I had in my mind that we had 5 weeks (35
days, 34 nights), but actually we have 35 nights. The gift of a day!
(I feel both giddy and sheepish.)

Where best to add it in? I'm leaning toward Verona so we can have a
full day on Lago Garda. Thoughts?

AMann, like you, I have no experience, but am salivating at this itinerary. Looks fabulous and I hope the OP will come back and give us a trip report!

I wanted to give you feedback on your lakes visit. I haven’t been to Garda so can’t give you input there.

And since we lived on Lago Maggiore for 2 1/2 years, I’m partial. While we’ve been to Varenna and the City of Como, I think you will find Maggiore less touristy and less expensive. Think about 4-5 nights on one lake, but maybe two towns Stress, Verbania. To take train from Varrena to Stresa will take up a good part of the day, (almost 4 hours on slow, usually delayed, regional trains,) The beauty of the lakes is doing most of your sightseeing by ferry.

There is plenty to keep you busy or relaxed in Stresa
1. Ferry to Borromeo Islands
2. Ferry to 9th century Monastery across lake from Stresa- Santa Catarina del Sasso
3. Train to Arona, ferry across lake to Angora Fortress. (Castle)
4. Lago Maggiore Express- train to Domodossola, cog wheel train to Locarno Switzerland. Ferry back to Stressa (we spent a night in Cannobio, then next day took ferry back with a stop in Luino.

Things to do from Verbania- stay in Suna or Pallanza
4. Ferry to Switzerland (Ascona)
5. walk from Pallanza around peninsula to Villa Taranto Gardens
6. Ferry across lake to Laveno to the bucket gondola (a must for all the visitors we had)
7. Public pool and beach in Suna
8. Great hike from Suna to Cavandone and back. Historic medieval tower and centuries old church on the way.
9. A short bus ride to Giffa, hike to a UNESCO site Sacro Monte Della SS Trinity, walk back to Intra, Verbania
10. Rent a little motorboat for 4 hours and explore the lake. In four hours you can tool around the Borromeo Bay and Islands, go to the southern end of the lake, and a bit towards the north.

If you need more info or links to any of this just pm me.

Forgot to mention that we also stayed in Stresa for 5 nights last summer :)

If you need to pick up a rental car while there, we used the Avis in Stresa and thought it was great. About a 10 minute walk from the train station, small but easy to get to, and with friendly staff. We ate at Ristorante Elvezia on Isola Bella, which was great! Make a reservation and ask for a table on the patio, overlooking the lake. One day, we drove over to Orta San Giulio on Lago d'Orta. I'd recommend arriving early, as parking spots definitely filled up by mid-morning.

Actually, my suggestion was to skip Lake Como and Stresa entirely, and instead spend four nights at Lago di Garda, specifically Malcescine near the north end. It would save a lot of back and forth through Milan for short stays on Lakes Como and Maggiore, and facilitate your journey to the Dolomites with a car picked up in Verona. The car would be used to reach Malcescine (which is not on the train lines) and then onward to the Dolomites.

But it sounds like your plan to go to Lake Como and Stresa is firm, and you plan to visit Lago di Garda on a daytrip from Verona. Malcescine is not a daytrip, as it is far to the north and accessible only by car or ferry. Check the little map of Lago dinGarda here:

https://www.visitgarda.com/en/lake-gara-ferries/

The train line between Verona and Milan runs along the south end of the lake, with stops at Peschiera di Garda and Desenzano. The terrain at the south end of the lake is pretty flat, and lacks the scenic splendor of the north part of the lake which is surrounded by mountains. But it is worth visiting to see Sirmione and the Roman ruins known as the Grottoes of Catullus. Sirmione occupies a small peninsula that juts into the lake between Peschiera and Desenzano, and is accessible by ferry from either town. Peschiera is only 16 minutes from Verona by train, so that would be the logical choice.

Here are links with photos and information on the Grottoes of Catullus, and the current ferry schedule.

https://lakegardatravel.net/grottoes-of-catullus-sirmione/

https://www.navigazionelaghi.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Orari-Battelli-Web-Primavera-2023.pdf

Note that Sirmione itself is a popular spa town, so the main pedestrian street of the historic center is lined with souvenir and T-shirt shops, and crowded with people. We worked our way through the crowds as best we could to the walking path along the lake to reach the grottoes. After spending 90 minutes exploring the site ( which is amazing), we exited through a gate and made our way down to Jamaica “Beach” (actually a shelf of light-colored limestone—-you can see it in the photo on the website main page) so my husband could take a swim.

@Lola, thank you! Your posts and those of others have us seriously reconsidering Lakes Como & Maggiore given the change in our itinerary. To cover this specific question, I added another post to focus just on it.

Hi, a comment for your lake time, we have stayed at Varenna at Lake Como with the RS Best of Italy tour, and we also have stayed on our own at Stresa at Lake Maggiore. During subsequent trips where I was traveling solo in Italy, I have returned two more times and stayed at Stresa.

I love the history of Stresa with the elegant hotels from the years of luxury train travel for royalty, celebrities, etc. Yet, the gorgeous Borromeo islands are what’s extra special for me. There’s actually a special small boutique hotel on Isola Bella, and I have stayed there twice. If you stay, be sure to get a room with a balcony overlooking the lake - Boutique Hotel Elvezia. I love the feeling of relaxation & soaking up the beauty and ambiance there! Erin’s comment above mentioned their nice restaurant, too.

Karen, who lived there, has listed several things to do, so I won’t repeat them.

Thank you, @Jean! It's a tough call right now. As I mentioned, I've posted a more focused question on the Italy Forum about the whole which-lakes-to-choose topic. Overall, it's been about even the recommendations of skip Como/Maggiore vs skip Garda. I'm reading every reply there with interest - we're going to have to decide soon which way to go!