Italy with my 17 year old goddaughter….

Unless she went with me!

Milan - Rick Steves IT guidebook tells you what street to walk in Milan that displays high-end fashion in its store windows. What I remember about it is you’ll see what the “in” color is this spring. You also want to go inside the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II. When I was at the Galleria there was an artistic display of stiletto heels in different shades of pastels making me want a pair in every color.
Lake Como – From Milan take a day trip to Varenna on Lake Como by direct train (1h 15m) and take Rick Steve’s self-guided walking tour. Afterwards take a direct ferry to Bellagio (15-minutes) and wander around there.
Venice – at dusk take a vaporetto (water bus) between the train station and St. Mark’s Square. This way you won’t see the decay but instead be able to voyeur inside the illuminated gothic palaces foyers that line the Grand Canal.
Padua (Padova) – take a day trip from Venice to Padua by direct train (30-minutes). Buy your tickets for the Scrovegni Chapel before leaving home. Afterwards explore its picturesque old town.
Florence – buy your tickets now for the Uffizi Gallery. Before COVID you needed to buy tickets two-months out to secure a reservation. You also want to visit Siena by direct bus (1h 15m).
Rome – I suggest joining a tour when visiting the Roman Forum. Otherwise, you won’t get much out of it.
Amalfi Coast – the only train that reaches the coast is the Circumvesuviana that runs between Naples and Sorrento. You’ll need to get around the coast by bus and ferry. You could get an early morning start and take a direct train from Rome’s Termini station to Salerno (3h) and spend a night there.
From Salerno take a ferry to Positano (1h 15m) and sleep there one night and the next day take a ferry from Positano to Sorrento (45-miutes).

Hi Tricia!
Arg, I would gently but firmly insist that your niece engage. This trip is an incredibly generous gift, and it's a perfect learning opportunity for her get a handle on researching/booking trips of her own in the future. See what you can do?

I haven't back-checked everything in detail but, most importantly, is this trip THIS year? As in just a couple weeks from now? If so, you're going to want to reorganize some things. For instance, Vatican Museums are closed on Easter Monday (April 18th this year, and an Italian holiday)....
https://m.museivaticani.va/content/dam/museivaticani/pdf/utilities/calendario_musei.pdf

Museum of San Marco is closed the first, third and fifth Sunday, the second and fourth Monday of the month. You've scheduled it for a 2nd Monday (April 11). The Italian National Museums are also closed on Mondays, and you have the Accademia (where "David" is) scheduled for the same day so that's a no-go. This is a good web resource for checking open/closed days of many Florentine museums; it's also their official ticketing vendor:

https://www.b-ticket.com/b-Ticket/uffizi/default_eng.aspx.html

Be aware that a fair amount of the larger Italian museums are requiring advance, timed-entry tickets. Your niece, at 17, will enjoy free entrance to most but will require an advance reservation for a small fee, usually around 2 euros. If the trip is next year and she'll be 18, then adult ticket prices apply. for her. Anyway, you'll want to make notes of which days attractions in all the cities listed are open/closed, and which ones you need to jump on tickets for if your trip is very soon! A couple of random comments off top of my head:

Day 19- April 22- Sorrento- train to Positano- wander

There is no train service to Positano. You'll get there by bus, ferry or private driver.

Day 20- April 23- Sorrento- train to Paesstum- Ancient Greek temples
From 3,000 years ago.

I'd scratch this one as it's a very time-consuming trip from Sorrento.

Day 9- April 12- Florence- duomo/ Medici Gardens/ fashion area to
browse

I'd scratch the Medici Gardens (I'll assume you mean the Boboli Gardens of Palazzo Pitti?) and plan on doing the entire duomo complex. Get a combo pass that covers all of them; unless you wish to climb the dome or belltower, the Ghiberti Pass should do ya. The cathedral itself is free so no tickets needed but the security line can be long.

https://duomo.firenze.it/en/home
https://operaduomofirenze.skiperformance.com/en/store#/en/buy

If intent on doing the Boboli Gardens, do them the same day you cross the river as that's where they're located. And I don't see a walk up to Piazzle Michelangelo and church of San Miniato (same general location) in Florence? Definitely add those.

I'll scratch this post and start over if your trip isn't until next year!!! Let us know?

There is a lot of wandering -I would do walking tours in each city - if you can do private ones then the guide can focus on what your goddaughter wants to see - otherwise small groups work.

Food tours are also good - cooking class outside Florence - market first then out to countryside to cook.
There are pizza making classes you can find. In Venice you can do mask making classes.

I took my daughter to Rome and Florence for a week when she was 17 - we would do tours, museums etc in morning and shop /wander after lunch.

Your goddaughter is very lucky to have you do this trip. She is old enough to do some research and help plan. She can also check out some blogs, instagram, etc to find things that would appeal to her.
I hope it is next year so there is plenty of time for planning.

Having traveled with a teenager once upon a time, I too am in the camp of insisting she get involved. She does not need to plan itineraries, find places to stay, or figure out train tables (though it might be valuable experience for her own independent travel); but she needs to at least do some looking and come up with things to see that interest her, beyond "art" for example.

Particularly Milan, Florence, Venice, and Rome...hardly a surprise that you would go there, have her list her few top "must sees", find at least one or two places to eat...or just a type of food to have. Maybe it is just me, but planning whets the appetite for the trip, doing searches, learning a bit about the destination, even just watching a movie set in a place, all make the trip more enjoyable.

As for practicalities, if you have not traveled with her, alone, before, consider a weekend trip as a dry run. Pack as you would for Europe...one bag, and talk about what won't work to bring (your talking 17 year old girl interested in fashion, so no 6 pairs of shoes, 10 outfits, curling iron, hair dryer, makeup bag the size of my carry-on, etc). As a peace offering, suggest she bring a collapsible duffel or other bag, to pack some select purchases "from Italy", to check on the way home.

Also, despite her nearly being 18, I would have a notarized letter from her parents acknowledging that she has permission to travel with you and an authorization to carry out medical care. Also tell dad to get a credit card for her...with a high limit.

I firmly believe your niece needs to be involved in the planning of this trip in order to learn important travel skills (planning, purchasing, packing, safety and "roll with the flow" skills) and also she should learn the value of your time with investing into her journey.

Your post conveys a sense of angst in believing you must entertain your niece. Please consider leading by example by creating a journey you desire to partake. Perhaps the itinerary becomes inclusive of locations she expresses interest in visiting, but the travel style should reflect the manner you enjoy.

When have you spent three weeks (24/7) with your niece? Point is this will be a long journey and some boundaries should be discussed about when "Me time" is okay.

Suggest you rent apartments in your destinations for the following reasons:
1) more room to spread out
2) kitchen to enjoy some meals (for us cooking breakfast saves money, time and provides control of what we like). You also get to experience some lite market shopping.
3) washer! Doubt you will have a dryer but the washer is important on a long journey
4) expense is comparable to hotels
5) opportunity to engage with the apartment landlord to learn more local knowledge.

Shopping..............assign your niece web research to locate second hand/consignment shoppes to visit. Yep, not as cool as shopping in the "real retail", but she can also window shop. You can spend a wad of money on new clothes or be a local and seek fashion bargains. FYI: In Milan the bargains are found in the basements. We actually enjoy perusing second hand shoppes and have found wonderful items we enjoy wearing while home.

Remove the word "wander" from your trip mentality. Teach your niece the skill of "being" in the moment and not just "seeing" the sites. Wonderful memories are to be made from strolling in a park, creating picnics in a variety of locations and simply sitting at an outdoor cafe and watching the folks stroll by.

Focus upon an itinerary providing the maximum opportunity to create wonderful memories.

Paul has provided some excellent advice.

If she has been talking about going to Italy since the 6th grade, there must be some things that draw her there. Does your itinerary reflect them?

Also, you will only see one aspect of Italy with what you have listed. Consider spending some time in the rural areas, such as Umbria or Tuscany to experience a charming side of Italy not found in the big cities.

I've been to italy 10+ times. The itinerary has you staying in some cities a little long when there's so much to see in the countryside close to the cities.

I suggest taking one day away from Venice and take the short train ride up to Lake Como area. I would take two days away from Florence and visit Siena--and take some tours into the Tuscan countryside to cities like San Gimignano and Volterra. It's not but a short bus ride from Florence to Siena.

Note: When you take the train to Sorrento, you'll be going through Naples where you connect to another train. To visit Pompeii, you catch the same train back toward Naples and get off at Pompeii..

Also, despite her nearly being 18, I would have a notarized letter from her parents acknowledging that she has permission to travel with you and an authorization to carry out medical care. Also tell dad to get a credit card for her...with a high limit.

Let me remind you of what Paul wrote. Find out exactly what you need to legally bring her to Italy. Contact the local Italian consulate.

Human trafficking is on the rise and most European countries are on high alert. You showing up with a 17 year old girl who is not related to you is going to send up a lot of red flags. Get all the paperwork done BEFORE you get on the plane.

You don't have a lot of time.....move quickly as beauracracy is slow.

I went with my young adult children to Italy last summer. Of the places you are going, we spent time in Venice. We were there four nights.

We did the Secret Itinerary tour at Doges Palace which everyone loved. It has to be booked in advance and very limited but takes you back to the prisons and the offices.
We went to the Academia museum which was amazing even for our nonmusuem crowd.

We went to the markets and cooked the food that night. It would be fun to wander even if you did not buy.
We went to Murano and Burano by vaporetto. The glass museum on Murano was a favorite.

This is the second trip I have taken with my kids. Honestly, they have not read the guidebooks ahead of time. What I did was decide the general itinerary-where we would go and how many days. I basically decided what I wanted to do and then let them have input after that. They were then more but still not very involved in deciding the actual activities. I had them watch Rick Steves shows so they were at least somewhat familiar with our destinations. We had a blast anyway. The most important thing I have found is to mix up the type of activities.

And I totally agree with poster who said get an apartment. You need some space to enjoy three weeks together. You could get a one bedroom with a sleeper sofa even.

There’s a big difference between her “I don’t care” - it all sounds exciting, and “I want nothing to do with the planning” first comment. I’m concerned that this is going to be a very unhealthy situation for you if it doesn’t change.

I think you need to have a long lunch with her mom and the two of you and go over everyone’s expectations. Spin this as a chance for her to be a co-traveler adult vs. a child. What are the tasks that need to happen? Even things like mapping out where activities are located are things she can and should do. Divide them up, and meet again to ensure they are happening. You will be exhausted if the current “entertain me” mentality doesn’t change, and she will miss this opportunity to be an accountable fellow traveler. I will be taking my 42-year old daughter to Italy this year, and probably a lot of the advice in this link would be helpful, also:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/advice-for-mother-traveling-with-daughter

And, definitely give her the task of finding the fashion category activities. Just tell her you don’t know about it, and your ideas of fashion would be different. ; )

April 4 is a Monday, Last Supper is closed
You’ll need to book those tix in advance, like now

If you can still change itinerary I’d go to Sorrento from Florence then Rome at end so no split stay there.
It might work out better that way due to Easter closures.

Eating Italy offers food tours in Rome. I think the Testaccio one might be interesting to her as it is a less touristy area of Rome….it visits bakeries, the market, delis, restaurants and cafes as well as some historic sites. A great way to spend half a day and to discover that Italian food is more than pizza! And maybe a couple of cooking classes as well in the other cities.

A visit to St. Clements church near the Colosseum might be useful before you do your Ancient Rome days. The church sits on top of an archaeological site and by going down into the basements you will walk through different periods of Ancient Rome. A great way to understand how modern Rome was built up in layers on top of the old city.

Have you considered spending a couple of nights in the village of Paestum? It’s one of my favourite sites and the museum has some interesting frescos. Also of interest in the area is a visit to a buffalo farm where they make incredible buffalo milk cheeses. An eye opener to modern dairy farming in Italy.
It’s a long haul from Sorrento, easier from Salerno. If you don’t want to spend nights away from Sorrento, consider getting a car and driver; there are a number of companies in Sorrento offering this service.

As someone mentioned you have a lot of larger cities in itinerary. How about a couple of nights in some smaller places - Orvieto, Volterto or another of the Tuscany hill towns. Or an Agritourismo?

You have a lot of museums and art galleries scheduled; I think you need to be prepared for museum fatigue to set in later in the trip where your brain does not want to look at one more statue or painting of a Virgin and child.

Add a day to Venice and go to Murano and visit a glass factory to see the magical process of turning sand into glass. I seem to recall that it is possible to take an art class in Florence, might this be something she is interested in?

Plan a day out of Rome… Villa d’Este or Hadrian’s Villa, walk or cycle the Appian Way (on a Sunday when it’s closed to cars).

Like others, I think your niece needs to take some responsibility for the planning of this trip - imagine the whining, complaining and blaming is she is unhappy with your choices!

It would be the same no matter what the age of the traveler you are going with.....they have to take some responsibility for their trip with you.
You will be the one ending up not enjoying your trip otherwise.
If she has wanted to go to Italy for years....why?
I agree with renting apartments with TWO bedrooms.
Both of you will need your own spaces at some point during the trip.

You are one brave woman and very generous to do this for your niece. Other posters have given you great advice to consider. I have been to Italy more than a dozen times, 1st with a tour group, the rest with family, friends or solo. A few things I've learned for you to consider.

No matter how much you plan, unexpected things will happen. Is your niece easy going & adaptable? You will be legally responsible for her, is she willing to listen to you? Is she a picky eater or have any food allergies? How is the food bill going to be split. will she have her own money? Will she respect the customs & norms of a different culture (particularly dress codes for Church or possibility of wearing masks)? What is the difference in ages & energy levels?

Sounds like you are leaving soon, April 2nd. I second the suggestion to meet with a parent & your niece to set some ground rules. Communication is the absolute key. 24/7 for 3 weeks with anyone is a long time. You may want to google 'questions for travel partners' for some ideas to discuss. I would suggest that you pick one daily activity, alternating days with the other person to pick the activity. If she is not willing to participate, (I had that happen to me once, what a disaster), you may want to reconsider the trip at this time. Good luck & hopefully it will all work out for you.

Lucca might be a fun day trip, you can rent bikes to ride around on the ramparts.

I’m in agreement with everyone who has encouraged you to encourage her to participate in the planning. She/you need her buy-in to the planning, otherwise, I see some major potential for a whiny or distant teen on your trip. Meet with her by herself (to acknowledge she is separate from her parents) and talk over your plans so far, maybe using the phrase “what do you think we could do in (insert name of destination here)”. You can provide ideas (food tours, ghost tours -a huge hit with my grandgirls) but encourage her to do the research. I speak from experience here as I have taken my grandchildren to Europe more than once and their participation in the planning process makes this their trip. If you think this might be overwhelming for her at first, break the planning down into manageable parts….maybe she could find fun things for you to do in Florence and Rome? Besides the awesome travel education she will be getting through her research, she will also be invested in the journey from start to finish. While you’re on your trip, you might want to sit down together in the evenings, relax and review your day-what was good and what needs work. I value my trips with just me and my grands so, so much and I know this will be an unforgettable trip for you both..

I have traveled to Europe multiple times with my teens and always ask for input and they rarely "care" and I make the plans I want and they go and are fine. The idea that she will whine, after telling you it's up to you, may not bear out. The plans you have are the things ewe have done and the kids really enjoyed it. I wouldn't worry. And once you start traveling, she will start to realize what the day-to-day is like (how you can decide what to see!) and she may start caring more en route. You have built in enough open days ("wander"), for her to study on google at night in the hotel and figure out a plan for her unscheduled time. I think part of what you are encountering is that traveling like that is unlike anything these kids have done, so how to plan is a black hole, but once underway becomes something they can understand. This is one of the gifts of taking kids to travel; you open up this understanding of how to navigate and plan for trips (and anything really). What you have above sounds perfect :)

You have planned an incredible trip! Would you like another goddaughter? ;)

It looks like you have a wonderful trip planned. I have a suggestion that would create an unforgettable memory for you both in Venice. There is an organization called Row Venice that will give you gondola rowing lessons. It’s a little spendy, but who else can say that they rowed a gondola on the grand canal in Venice? And it’s great fun. As for Rome, I have two suggestions. The first is a food tour. My favorite is Testaccio, although the food tour in Trastevere is also very good. You can find these through Eating Italy. The second is a n electric bike tour out to the aqueduct park and the catacombs. It’s not difficult and it’s a lot of fun. And having electric bikes helps with any hills you encounter.

Wow! Thank you for all of your wonderful suggestions! I am in the process of rewriting our itinerary, thanks to YOU! I will try to answer your questions here….
I drove hours to spend the weekend with my sister and her kids, including my niece/ goddaughter. I have not traveled with her before, so too late now to change it! We leave April 2, 2022. Less than TWO weeks! I spent time with my niece, and a lot of time with my sister, (they live in Sonoma, so my sister and I went winetasting! No kids allowed!)

We started this process at the beginning of November. I was blind sighted by the idea of taking my niece to Italy, but I believe it was pre planned and I felt no choice but to say yes, because I love them so much. How do you say NO?

I was shocked by my niece having NO input into planing other than, “ I want to see fashion in Milan, Venice, Pisa, and Pompeii. Mostly I want to wander the back streets and see how people live.”

So I planned the trip I would want to see if it was my first trip in Italy. Every evening, we will discuss what we want to see or do tomorrow. I will make reservations for a few key museums I must see again, otherwise, her Lose!

I love the idea of an apartment with two rooms! Unfortunately, all B and B’s are booked and I don’t want to undo things at this late date.

I am sorry, I am exhausted from my long weekend with teenagers! More info tomorrow!

Thank you!!!

Can I suggest that you look for a two bedroom apartment with a washing machine at least once during your trip? Florence perhaps, assuming can cancel reservations you have.

Frankly you will need the space by then. In my experience, having more space and the opportunity to wash clothes is very welcome even when people are more used to be together. When my husband and I went to England , we stayed in a hotel in London for five nights. Then we went to Bath where we had an apartment with a washer. We were so excited to have more space to spread out. We ended up doing take out several nights just to enjoy it.

I’m glad you had the chance to meet with her this weekend. I think the two of you will do fine with going with the flow. We took our two granddaughters, then aged 14 and 17, on a trip to Italy and Paris in 2019 at their request. It was wonderful and they contributed to a lot of the planning along the way looking up restaurants, plotting a self guided chocolate walking tour, etc. While our trip was very food focused as you’ll see it’s nice to have a teen with an interest that helps shape the trip, fashion in your case. Please write a trip report when you return so that others can imagine traveling with different age groups.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/italy-and-paris-with-teenage-granddaughters

Not disagreeing with Beth but we've been fine using coin laundries. Lots of apartments don't have dryers, and the home wash machines can take a long time to run a load....or so has been reported. With multiple industrial machines to work with, we can wrap things up reasonably quickly by doing dark and a light loads at the same. We also figure that doing laundry is all part of the experience! :O)

Aside from dealing with clothes, I'll caution against using your guide books for hours, entry fees and ticketing processes as much has changed (and continues to change) with the pandemic so your more CURRENT resources are the websites for the attractions themselves. I'll mention again the mandatory advance timed-entry reservations for many of the most visited attractions? The sooner you can jump on those, the better as the tourist season is heating up. I see that both Coopculture's economical tickets for the Colosseum which include the underground (you can't visit that section by yourselves) are essentially sold out as far out as they are available (April 20th, as of today). Doesn't mean you HAVE to see the underground but worth mention how busy attractions in the "Holy Trinity" cities (Venice, Florence and Rome) could be when you're there.

You also cannot use the Firenzecard in Florence for efficiency as it's not currently covering access to any of the museums, probably because of timed-entry mandates for the biggies. That's been an unwelcome surprise for some. And again, do check the open and closed dates/hours for all of the attractions on your list.

So we'll just throw in the towel on getting the niece to engage, and give you kudos for taking this on!! Given you don't know how well she'll engage once there, I'd probably hesitate to commit to many expensive tours/activities? Great idea to plan for the trip YOU want to take, and I hope she's a cheerful sort willing to go with her auntie's flow. Keep us posted if you have more questions? Given your positive attitude, you'll have a great trip!

I am in the process of rewriting our itinerary, thanks to YOU!
I drove hours to spend the weekend with my sister and her kids, including my niece/ goddaughter. I have not traveled with her before, so too late now to change it! We leave April 2, 2022. Less than TWO weeks

If you are leaving in less than two weeks, I'm not sure how much you can change. You should have all arrangements made by now. I certainly hope that is the case. You should have asked the group questions much earlier in the planning.

Be that as it may, what you have planned will be fine. Make sure to give yourself some downtime and flexibility in your schedule. Many times in our travels, our most memorable experiences were the unplanned and unexpected. I suggest you and your niece set aside some time every evening to review the next day's schedule, especially if there are options. If there are two or three choices, allow her to own her experience by making the choice of the next day's schedule.

I also recommend using, Walks of Italy. We used them for tours in Florence and Rome. I'm wondering if the Heart of Rome evening tour is the Evening Stroll we took using Walks if Italy. It was a wonderful evening and very informative.

I hope you and your niece have a great time! We had the opportunity to visit our grandson when he was studying in France. Our time together traveling and sightseeing brought us closer together.

FWIW we traveled to Italy when our oldest daughter was 16 (the other 2 were 12 & 5), and we're planning another trip to Italy this summer with all 3 (our youngest daughter is now 16). We also traveled to Paris with 2 of them when they were 17 & 10.

Regardless of how involved your goddaughter is/isn't with the planning, unless she's a very particular kid, she'll have a fantastic time because it will all be new and eye-opening. My girls were not very involved with the planning on any of the aforementioned trips & they loved it all. My only advice would be to leave enough unstructured time & plenty of gelato breaks!

Buon divertimento!

Tricia, I sent you a PM. Susanna