Italy three-week itinierary questions.

I've been to most of these cities -- over the course of five visits to Italy. Trying to visit so many places in one trip feels exhausting. I do like your idea of flying into Venice and flying home from Rome. That's strategic. With some of these towns, you do have to park on the perimeter and walk in. We rented a car on our first trip to Italy, which included Tuscany. Since then, I've forgone the car and relied on the trains or hired drivers. Less stressful! Many of these towns only require a day trip. If it was me, I would pick three or four towns to stay in and do day trips from there. I once stayed five days in Oriveto -- with day trips to Assisi and Civita di Bagnoregio. Another time, I stayed at an agriturismo near Pienza, with day trips to Siena, San Gimignano and other hilltowns.

Three weeks in Italy -- how exciting!

Thank you! Is it possible to visit Assisi, San Gimignano and Civita di Bagnoregio without a car?

Hello vestigo6, and welcome to the forum!

The real challenge I see here aside from the number of places is that some of these cities are difficult to visit without a car. Almost everything can be reached with public transportation but it will mean much more time and your schedule will be dictated by what you can manage.

My usual advice with this list would be the classic Venice, Florence, Rome and then whatever else you can squeeze in but if you are willing to forgo Florence you'll have more time for these smaller places.

Difficult to reach places: Pienza, Civita di Bagnoregio, Sabbioneta and to a lesser degree Assisi, San Gimignano.

I would look into flying into Venice and out of Rome and and make the journey north to south or the reverse if you don't fly out of Venice too early.

Venice: 3 nights (4 if you can afford it)
Verona: 4 nights - One day Verona with day trips to Vicenza and Padua, and Mantua/Mantova by train
Bologna or Modena: 4 nights - Day trips to Ferrara, Ravenna (Bologna is closer to Ravenna and easy for day trips to Modena and Ferrara but I don't know if you have any interest)
Florence or Siena: 2/3 nights - Siena could be a side trip from Florence or the main focus (You add a day and try and squeeze in San Gimignano via a tour or something but personally I think it's too much work/time/expense for SG)
Orvieto: 2 nights (train from either Florence or Siena) Civita di Bagnoregio is near here but the logistics are daunting
Perugia: 2/3 nights - day trip to Assisi
Rome: 3 nights

Something like this would be my first draft of a trip that tries to include as much as possible but this is going to be a crazy busy schedule with essentially a day for the city you're in and a day for of the day trips. If you try something like this you may need a vacation from this vacation when you're done. I really like Lucca and it is logistically easy but without Florence it is too far away from your other places to fit, I think. I you were willing to rent a car to see places like Pienza and Civita di Bagnoregio then I might change things around but depending on trains and buses this would be my starting point.

Realistically I think you will need to make some further choices as to what you really want to see over another place and build in some rest days and time to get into the slower rhythm of Italian life - especially in Tuscany and the countryside.

Whatever you decide have a great trip,
=Tod

Hi, Tod! Thank you so much for your reply!

Would you recommend renting a car? I have been to Italy a couple of times but never drove. I rented cars in Greece, Crete, Germany, Austria, Malta and Turkey. I wouldn't been able to see as much as I did (especially in Malta, Crete and Turkey) without a car, but finding parking can be nerve-racking. I spent close to 3 hours trying to find parking in Hallstat and ended up parking 45 min. walk from the town.

How difficult is it to reach Assisi, San Gimignano and Civita di Bagnoregio without a car?

As Jean noted Assisi is probably a train+bus combo since the train station is not in the old, interesting part of Assisi. It's certainly not impossible but from any further away than Perugia it is a long time and difficult.

San Gimignano is largely the same issue. There is a train station in Poggibonsi which has had the SG name added to it but don't be fooled as it is still a good twenty minutes away. And to go there from Siena or similar areas you are looking at two buses - again probably changing in Poggibonsi. Honestly, I thought it a pretty little town but the tourism aspect of it put me off so I personally don't think the town is worth the trouble but it is people's favorite. SG fails my population to art gallery ratio that seems to take place in seriously touristy places - how many art galleries does a town with a population of less than 8,000 need? However SG is also touristy enough that there are tour companies that offer transport if you're really interested.

Someone was recently asking about a bus to Civita di Bagnoregio and I don't think it was answered. When we went I drove and it is seriously out in the middle of nowhere. One service claims there are twice daily buses to Bagnoregio from Orvieto train station but the actual schedule at https://servizi.cotralspa.it/Orari only seems to show it going to Lubriano which still leaves you about 3km short of Bagnoregio and even getting to Bagnoregio means walking all the way through town to the old Civita part.

Driving in rural Italy is probably no more nerve wracking that the other places you have mentioned. But ZTLs have become a real issue in the last few years as well as parking issues in smaller towns. Many towns - like SG - have instituted just out of town car parks that you should definitely use. The largest "city" I drove in was Pisa and that was enough to convince it was enough.

I think you would need to weigh the trouble and expense of a car for a couple of well chosen days - probably out of Chiusi - and get to see Pienza, Montalcino, Montepulciano and the surrounding area if that interests you. Whatever the greatest concentration of hard to reach places within distance of each other may make it worth it.

If someplace is on your "must see" list there is a way to get virtually anywhere but for things that are not "musts" the time, expense and trouble starts to outweigh the benefits are at some point. Is any town worth the cost of two others or the cost of a private hire car to drive you there, wait and take you back? Or worth 2 hours of transportation to see it for a couple of hours because you have to get back on the last bus out of town and ride the 2 hours back?

Make the tough planning choices and have great trip,
=Tod

Thank you very much for your replies!

Would you recommend visiting Bologna? Does it have an old town?

Does Bologna have more of a historic center than Ravenna or is it vice versa?

Ravenna is a "must" see because of the mosaics. The annoying thing is that there is no direct trains from Ravenna to Florence or Assisi. That's why I am thinking of spending some time in Bologna since I have to change trains there anyway if I go to Florence. I heard, though, that Bologna is more of a modern city without really having a historic center.

I am also considering staying in Ferrara. Can Ravenna be done as a day trip from Ferrara?

It also looks like I can take a direct train from Florence to Siena. Would you recommend that?

I would very much like to visit Assisi. However, because it takes close to three hours by train from Florence, I am thinking that it might make more sense to stay for a couple of nights in Assisi and then take a direct train to Rome rather than visit Assisi as a day trip from Florence.

Another possibility is to take a direct train from Florence to Perugia. Does Perugia have a historic center?

I am trying not to rent a car, but am wondering if it would be easier to just rent a car in Venice, go to Ravenna, Assisi, Siena, San Gimignano, maybe Pisa and Luca and drop it off in Florence.

What do you think?

Thanks!
Alex

My driving experience in Tuscany and Umbria was atypical - it was in late March as Italy was just reopening to post-Covid tourism, so there was not much traffic and few tourists outside the major tourist cities. I shared some of my navigational challenges on the forum (here - scroll down to my 2nd post when I rent the car) and found it wasn't just me. I didn't have trouble finding parking but I think that may be your biggest challenge.

Some of your choices deserve 1 or 2 night stays. But others can easily be day trips. A few have never been on my radar.

Venice is my favorite city in Europe - maybe in the world. I would not day-trip from there because it's too time-consuming unless you are staying close to the train station and anyway it's usually one of the most expensive for lodging. (here is my post from Venice on my last visit there).

Verona is worth an overnight. From there you could train to Bologna for a long stay and day trip by train to several of your towns (use a map and trenitalia.com to plan). While Ravenna can be a day trip from Bologna, I highly recommend 2 nights there so you have time to see all the wonderful mosaics without rushing. Then I'd train to Florence.

Florence is convenient for day trips. Pisa and Lucca by train, some on the forum have recommended combining them into one day. San Gimignano and Siena are day trips by bus. Siena is not convenient by train so it will take longer and probably require changing trains to get there and to continue onward, but you can stay there and day-trip by bus to San Gimignano. It's a problem with a car because of the TLZ's and parking. San Gimignano is espcially challenging for parking. I was warned to get there very early (and that was in off-season) to get a place. In the end I skipped it.

I've been to Assisi twice, once by train (it's a longish ride) for an overnight and then in March by car. There are several parking lots on the road up to the historic center that I passed to park in the large underground lot very close to the Basilica. There was hardly anyone in the town. I have no idea if the parking lot fills up in tourist season when you'll be there. The first time I stayed overnight, had lots of time to explore and loved it. There's a bus to go up from the train station and taxis. Much of the center is not accessible by car because of the steep hills.

Orvieto is easily accessible by train. The station is at the base of the town, then take the funicular up and walk 15 minutes or so or take the shuttle bus to the central plaza. It is well worth an overnight (or two) especially to see the highlights before or after the day trippers. I'm not up-to-date. When I was there the funicular only ran until 8 pm. I went to FCO from Orvieto and skipped Rome on that trip - but I had an afternoon flight home.

So I'd weigh the costs of a car (including parking - it wasn't free anywhere) against those for trains and taxis. You may find that you can see plenty of the places on your list without renting a car at all.

Hi, Chani!

Thank you for your message. Where did you take the train to Assisi from?

What towns would you cut from my itinerary?

How does Bologna compare to other towns on my list? Does it have a historic center like Siena or Florence?

I haven't been to Ravenna. Reading between the lines Rick says he doesn't think there's much to offer tourists except for the amazing mosaics. Bologna is known mostly for being the food capital of Italy but it has the majority if its 14th century walls and gates intact as well as a center of ancient buildings. Most of the towers built around 1,000 are gone and the ones that remain are leaning.

If you go to read up on Sala Borsa - the main library in the central square across from the Neptune statue. The building itself is amazing enough but in the basement they have a small archaeological exhibit showing the Roman foundations cut by later building and then more building on top of that. It's maybe a 30 minute visit but it's a great cross section of the layers of building in old Italian towns.

As I said I haven't been to Ravenna but I think Bologna is probably more interesting as a whole city and is well positioned for visiting Modena and Ferrara even if it is a little far from Ravenna without a direct train. But an 1.25 to 1.5 hours on the train isn't terrible if not exactly what you were hoping for.

Hope that helps,
=Tod

Thank you very much, guys for your replies!

Since visiting Magna Graecia in Sicily and south of Italy, Cilento National Park, Pompei and Herculaneum, and Naples are also on my list, I am wondering whether it would be better to do Sicily and south Italy trip in April-May and Venice-Florence-Rome trip in August?

I will probably should rent a car if I want to see different sites in Sicily like Agrigentum, Syracuse, Palermo, and so on, right?

What do you think?

Thanks!
Alex

Is Bologna a better hub that Venice for traveling by train to Verona, Vicenza, Padua, Ravenna, Ferrara Mantua, etc.?

Hi Alex

I took the train from Florence to Assisi, then train to Orvieto. It was about 3 hours to Assisi, and about 2-1/4 hours to Orvieto. I think I had to change trains both times, but I don't remember where. Because I only spent 1N in Assisi, I left my suitcase at the train station and only took a backpack.

Bologna does have an interesting historic center and I enjoyed the university tour (it's the oldest university in the world). The reason I suggested Bologna is that it's a rail hub, so you can day trip to a lot of other towns easily. I found a hotel about half way between the central piazza and the train station, so I could easily walk to both in about 10 minutes. It's known as a culinary mecca, so there are plenty of places to have dinner after each day trip.

I haven't been to Vicenza - though I've been just about everywhere else close by, my research didn't give me a good enough reason to visit. The same for Pienza. The other places on your list I haven't been to are Mantua, Sabbioneta, Modena, Lucca, San Gimignano, and Civita di Bagnoregio. I wouldn't cut any of the others if I didn't have to for logistic reasons.

I loved Sicily. The Greek temples are amazing. I was there for 2 full weeks (no jetlag) and had a car for just over a week. Most of the driving was easy on good roads. It would have been even easier if I'd had GPS. The hardest part of planning was what to cut. There is just so much to see. I was there in April-May and everything was green. I started in Palermo, ended in Ortigia (Syracuse). The wildflowers were spectacular in April. My trip was in 2014 and there weren't many tourists. By late April, I think the Amalfi Coast and the Bay of Naples area would be full of tourists. I was there twice, once based in Sorrento for Pompeii etc, and once based in Naples and Salerno for the AC. Both trips were in February. I was pretty lucky with the weather and there were very few tourists.
I don't do well in the heat and I don't like crowds, so I would never go anywhere in Italy (well, maybe the Dolomites) in August.

Hi, Chani!

Thank you again for your reply!

So, are you saying that from Bologna it is easier to travel by train to nearby cities than it is from Venice?

Where did you rent the car from and where did you drop it when you drove to Assisi? Would you recommend driving to Assisi?

Also, have you been to Matera?

Thanks!
Alex

Hi, again, Chani,

Could you share your itinerary for Sicily? I am thinking of spending 10-14 days there and there taking a train to Naples, and spending a week or so there visiting Pompei, Herculaneum, etc.

Aside from paying maybe half as much for a room in Bologna compared to Venice, Bologna is kind of in the middle of a lot of interesting towns, Venice isn't in the middle of anywhere except water. Unless you are staying near the train station in Venice (and thus farther from the sights there), it is a longish walk or a very slow vaporetto ride to the train. There are frequent trains from Bologna to all those towns, not nearly as many from Venice, although there may be more options if you change trains at Venice Mestre.

I rented and returned the car at the Florence airport. My itinerary was to 3N in Florence, 9N in Umbria/Tuscany and 3N in Rome. Dropping the car in a different location (I looked at a number of combinations for pick-up, not just Florence, and drop-off not just in Rome). The higher price was significantly more than a train ticket from Florence to Rome.

I got a lot of useful info on parking and traffic on the Tripadvisor forums. I suggest you ask there about Assisi and other specific questions. As I said, I was there when tourism was very low due to Covid. Conditions now are very different and you plan to be in Italy at a busier time of year anyway.

Not been to Matera.

I flew into Palermo and out of Catania. 5N in Palermo/Cefalu, then had the car for the rest of the time. 3N in Castellamare Del Golfo, 1N Piazza Armerina, 6N Ortigia.

Thank you, Chani!

Hi, Chani,

i suppose one needs to have a car to get around Sicily. Did you have the car for the whole time you were in Sicily?

I flew into Palermo and out of Catania. 5N in Palermo/Cefalu, then had the car for the rest of the time. 3N in Castellamare Del Golfo, 1N Piazza Armerina, 6N Ortigia.

You can see a lot of Sicily without a car; you just won't move around as fast, because there are no express trains in Sicily. You would not want to drive in Palermo and wouldn't need the car for the entire trip, so it would be smart to rent a car selectively. I always recommend at least 2 weeks in Sicily if you'll have a car as necessary, or a few days longer if you will be dependent on public transportation.

Bologna has one of Europe's largest medieval centers. What it doesn't have is big-name, individual sightseeing attractions. I think you'll find you can easily travel by train from Venice to Padua, then south to Ferrara, then further south to Ravenna, then west to Bologna.

Ravenna has an attractive historic center, but it is relatively small. While you can get to the seven major mosaic sites (including the one in Classe, outside Ravenna) by day-tripping from Bologna, there are other mosaic sites in Ravenna, a mosaic museum and an art museum that sometimes has contemporary mosaics on exhibit. I found that two full days (3 nights) in Ravenna just barely allowed me enough time to see most of the things on my list, and I'm a rather fast walker.

As of 2015 there was bus service from Orvieto to Bagnoregio, from which one could walk to Civita. I think the bus from Orvieto might not have run every day of the week, and the schedule may have changed in the last nine years in any case. There was a shuttle bus from the Bagnoregio bus stop to the Bagnoregio end of the bridge to Civita, but I don't know how often that local bus ran. I think I walked in both directions.

In Assisi I highly recommend taking the bus up to the top of the town and walking downhill toward the basilica. For much of the time you'll be on nearly deserted streets that are throwbacks to medieval Europe.

In 2015 the tourist offices in both Bologna and Orvieto offered walking tours.

You can find rail schedules at trenitalia.com.

Thank you!

Hi, Chani,

Would you recommend renting a car to go Assisi from Florence or Rome or taking a train/bus?

Would you recommend staying a night in Assisi?

I just realized that my trip falls on April 25 and on May 1. Both are public holidays in Italy.

From what i researched so far, it looks like on April 25 most museums and monuments will stay open.

What about May 1? Will monuments and museums be closed? I was planning to spend a full day in Siena on May 1, but now am thinking that maybe it would be better to spend May 1 traveling from Florence to Siena.

Are trains running normally on May 1?

Thanks,
Alex

The train schedule is located at www.trenitalia.com

Florence is Firenze. You will want the Firenze S.M. Novella train station. Siena is Siena. The May 1 schedule is available for purchase. It’s a 90-minute train ride if you use a direct train.

Thank you for your message.

How can I see/buy May 1 train schedule?

I just got off the phone with Trenitalia representative...he did not understand any English. I got the number from trenitalia english website.

Go here: https://www.trenitalia.com/en.html, enter your origin and destination (must use Italian spellings I've included below), change the date to May 1 and set the time to as early as you would want to get on a train. Then click the Search button.

Venice = Venezia S. Lucia
Padua = Padova
Mantua = Mantova
Florence = Firenze S. M. Novella
Rome = Roma (where I'd use "(Tutte le Stazioni)", to see all stations)

May 1 (Labor Day) is a big deal in many European countries. You'll probably see schedules similar to what runs on Sunday.

What is the best way to get from Ercolano Scavi to Vesuvius National Park?

It looks like the only shuttle that I could find about online is Vesuvius Express. But it has pretty bad reviews, and it only gives you 2 hours at the park.

Does anyone know of any shuttle other than Vesuvius Express?

If I take Vesuvius Express up the mountain, is it possible to take other kind of transportation back?

Thanks!
Alex