Italy itenerary

Umm, you could take a look at a Rick Steves guidebook on Italy for suggestions.

In the meantime, here are a couple of links on this website that might offer inspiration for you to plan your itinerary.

Italy:
https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/italy

Italy tours (also accessible from the link above): https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/italy

Have fun dreaming and planning, but don't be surprised if where you want to stay and what you want to do sends the price tag over $10,000, especially if you're thinking airfare for both of you would be included in that budget.

Also take note of Forum discussions about when foreign tourists may be allowed in the UK and the EU freely and without quarantine.

Does the $10k include the airfare to/from Europe. ?

Where are you coming from? Airfare will be decidedly different if coming from Fargo vs New York city.

Paris to Florence might be better to fly.

So 4 weeks total?

Since this is your first trip, I will share a few hints. The smaller cities are usually cheaper for lodging, meals, museum prices, etc. I’ve planned most of our itineraries and always try to give us a mix of city/smaller town & also at least one water or mountain site. We can usually stay at a slightly less touristy town for two nights for the price of one night at one of the major cities, and we have thoroughly enjoyed all of them.

So, if you need to stretch the budget, a possible idea would be to stay 4-5 nights in Paris and then 2-3 nights at a smaller town in France. Since you want to take the train, lovely Annecy or Torino, Italy would be near your route. We also enjoyed Lyon and stayed in the Vieux Lyon medieval neighborhood.

For Tuscany, if you want to travel only by train, select a town such as Siena and take some small minivan tours to the smaller towns. I stayed in Montepulciano for three nights(I travel by train & the occasional bus); for me that was plenty of time in a fantastic hill town. Be sure to check ahead of time what festivals are happening in the towns. I was able to plan part of my last trip to Italy to attend the Jousting Festival in Arezzo - wonderful!

Again, you might want a few nights in Orvieto and then spend your last 5 nights in Rome.

Definitely purchase and read the Rick Steves Italy guidebook - so much helpful information and answers the questions you didn’t even know to ask.

Based on your previous posts, is this still your plan so far? I picked this up from your last question in the Germany forum:

We plan on going to Bavarian Alps by rail after a week in London, then
a week in Paris, week in Bruges/Brussels/Amsterdam in mid October. We
also plan 2- 3 days in Bacharach to tour the romantic Rhine to see
Berg Eltz.

If so, and you're wanting to add quality time in Italy, I think coming in under $10k is a stretch. That said, and as you look to have been interested in base cities you can day-trip from, Florence is a great base for exploring Tuscany. Siena, Fiesole, Lucca and some others are easily and inexpensively day-tripped from there by train and/or bus.

Also picked up from a previous post:

I'd like to really just have a great exposure to Old Europe that we
can share when we're return. We're not shoppers. We want to experience
the culture.

If by "culture" you mean, say, art and architecture and not so much modern way of life, then Florence, birthplace of the Italian Renaissance, is a gotta-do. Granted, the larger cities tend to be more expensive than smaller towns but they also can offer enough things to see for free to justify the price of accommodations, and are usually good transport hubs for day tripping. Rome? Almost all of the scads of churches are free, and many of them are virtual art museums in-and-of themselves. A wonderful walk on the Appia Antica, if you skip paid attractions along the way, can be done for the price of cheap transport tickets and a packed-along picnic. The list goes on... While Florence doesn't have quite as many free attractions, the best of them with entry fees are well worth budgeting for.

Anyway, as your budget is very tight, and because Florence and Rome were both on your previous wish list, those are the two I'd go with. You can day-trip from the former as budget allows, and there's enough to do in the latter to keep you busy for as long as the $ stretch.

One last comment on the budget....
I'll caution against planning so many locations that, after airfare, train tickets, insurance, accommodations and food costs, there's little left over for exploring that location's treasures. The good news is that you absolutely can do most of them without paid, escorted tours as long as you are willing to spend quite a lot of quality time doing your own research. I'm not putting down tours at all as many people love them and find them to absolutely be worth the price, but they're generally not necessary if it means seriously limiting what you're able to do/see.

There are some attractions that benefit from tours as they're helpful when wanting to successfully navigate very large crowds in very large places (e.g. Vatican museums; Versailles) or to understand complex archeological sites (e.g.Palatine and Forum in Rome) but armed with good guidebooks, net research, audio guides, purchased museum guides and whatnot, the majority of attractions can be explored independently...as we have.

How long is your trip? I went to Italy in 2017. I spend under $3,100. If I hadn't taken some expensive guided tours and bought some souvenirs, I would have spent under $$2,900 U.S. dollars. x 2 would be $5,800 or approximately under $6,000 U.S. dollars. Read some guidebooks. Write yourself a day-by day itinerary. In 2017 I was on a tour of Florence given by Artviva, Via de’Sassetti 1, 50123 Firenze. I recommend this. I don't recommend the tour of the Colloseum in Rome I took sponsored by the Roman guy - I would have been just as happy if I had toured it unguided. Try writing yourself a trip budget. List everything that costs money in one column. In the next column list the costs. Buy your food from grocery stores. Take as few taxi rides as possibly.

Being a first timer and wanting to use your time and money appropriately, you really need to do research. Grab a few books from the library (when they reopen) and figure out where you want to go and then buy a book or two. We were supposed to be in Normandy right now (first timers in France) for five days then taking the RER train into Paris for a few overnights. From there, we were training to Verona via Milano. Our tickets on the Paris to Milano train was very reasonable (we bought it several months ago) and did get a full refund. From Milan, you can easily travel to Pisa or Florence and then get buses or rent a car to the Tuscan area. You could even rent a car and tour Tuscany and drop off the car in Orvieto and train into Rome, as it is strongly suggested NOT to have a car near Rome. Your research should include ZTL’s and speed cameras along your routes, so you are prepared. There is so much to see and experience in Tuscany, it is really a difficult decision. Eight trips to the area and we’ve only seen a fragment and that is why we keep going back. By the way, two of the great trips in the area are the American Cemetry 7 miles outside of Florence (think Arlington with magnificent rolling hills, umbrella pines and skyrocketing cypress trees. Second is Vinci, a small magnificent hamlet between Lucca and Florence and home to the great Leonardo, the museum there is fabulous beyond words.

The $10k does not in close air fare.

Just to note, the OP is not planning on doing any driving unless they change their mind but I'm guessing they won't.

eltoepfer? Other than flights, it sounds like you want to do this trip entirely by public ground transit?

You might review this prior posting with a similar questions. The numbers are pretty close if not tight.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/a-fall-month-in-italy-costs-arrangements

What exactly is the $10K going to cover? Airfare? Trainfare? Lodging? Food? Everything? A week in London. A week in Paris. Then how long in Tuscany???

Air fare to London and home from Rome is taken care of. The $10k if for food, lodging, trains and transit in Europe, and entertainment and sites. We plan on using R.S. audio tours and guidebook walks. I'm figuring 30 days for London, Paris, and Florence, and Rome.

That is roughly $300/day. Personally think it is impossible to do that for that amount. Now if your revert to youth hostels, buying food at a grocery, with min travel, you might make it. But as a first time traveler you will not know all the tickets for saving a euro. And you are wanting to spend time in some of the most expensive cities in the world -- London is either first or second behind Hong Kong. Paris isn't much better. We generally plan on 100 euro/day for food -- that is only two meals., another 150 for hotels, an hundred or so for admission but not every day, and, of course, train travel is a huge variable. Don't mean to rain on your parade but you do need to get more realistic. Either double the budget or reduce your time by at least a week. Europe on $5/day, $50day are long gone.

The $10k if for food, lodging, trains and transit in Europe, and entertainment and sites.
That is roughly $300/day.

It will take meticulous planning and rigid discipline to go where you want to go and not exceed $10k ( ~ 9200 euro)

Happy planning

I'm not in a position today (see final paragraph) to say your budget is impossible, but it would be very challenging for most Americans who aren't willing to stay in youth hostels. I cover less ground per week than you plan to (which reduces my transportation costs) and spend a greater percentage of my time in smaller cities (where lodging rates are usually much lower). On the other hand, I travel solo and have no one to split the hotel costs with me or share an appetizer. My expenses have never averaged less than $150 (US) per day, and I've traveled a lot to countries that are less expensive than England and France.

I don't eat in expensive restaurants, but I try to have a nice meal once a day; I don't subsist solely on supermarket sandwiches, and I don't eat fast food. Some money can be saved by buying all your food at supermarkets and street markets. I drink water 95% of the time and Coke or lemonade at other times, so no alcohol expenses. If I want dessert, I usually buy something at a fancy bakery, which typically costs about half what a restaurant would charge. In Italy I'd buy gelato at a stand for $2 to $3.

I stay in the least expensive, decently-located hotel I can find with air conditioning (for summer travel), Wi-Fi, and private bath. I don't expect charm, just cleanliness and functionality. Are you OK with what I call "dorm room decor"? That's what you're likely to need to settle for. Booking rooms way ahead of time may reduce your costs somewhat, but be sure you understand the cancellation policies. I wouldn't pre-pay for lodgings at the moment, since it would be impossible to get a refund from a hotel that goes bankrupt before your trip. You can take a look at hotel rates on booking.com. Time of year can have a huge impact.

I go to quite a lot of museums, but I spend a great deal of time in each one, so I virtually never pay two admission fees on the same day. I have little interest in indoor sites other than museums and other venues with museum-style displays, so that reduces my sightseeing expenditures. In addition, I qualify for a senior discount in some places. A lot of my travel time is spent pounding the sidewalk, just looking at the architecture, etc. As a result of those preferences, I'm certain I'm below average for sightseeing expenses per day. You can find admission fees on the Internet; guidebook information tends to be a year behind even if you have the current edition of the book.

A major challenge in addressing budget concerns at the moment is that it's impossible to predict what impact COVID-19 will have on lodging rates. If a lot of hotels and pensions fail to reopen, the reduced supply of rooms could lead to higher rates. Although demand from international visitors may be slow to pick up, many of those staying in economy hotels are not foreigners, and there may be even more of those in-country clients in the near future if it's difficult for them to travel internationally. I have no clue what to expect in terms of my own expenses the next time I travel to Europe. I can reduce the number of restaurant meals I pay for if I need to do that to save money, but I really cannot stay in less expensive lodgings than I'm already choosing.

Acraven, I like your style. We were thinking staying mainly in hostels and doing Rick Steve's walking tours with his audio guides and the occasional Main site like cathedrals, louve, Tate, Versailles, Vatican, tower of london, etc. Eating cheaply but one nice meal per day. I don't really know how to budget train transit from place to place.

This will give you a starting point and general idea. You will need to explore the options for your dates for a more accurate estimate

https://www.rome2rio.com/

I think you can have a great trip to Europe for about a month for $10K.
Look for air travel on Kayak.com or Air Matrix

The larger cities like London, Paris and Rome will be more expensive than smaller cities and towns, but with research, you can find affordable lodging.

In London, consider staying in a Premier Inn as an option. These are nice, affordable hotels in great locations. Also, look for Bed and Breakfasts, since that will save you from spending on breakfasts. Look for places close to the Underground.

We did four weeks in England and Wales for under 10K, but the largest cities that we visited were Cardiff and York. However, this included a rental car that we drove 1200 miles. Our lodging averaged 100 GBP per night.

For Paris and Rome, just make sure that you book lodging in a neighborhood that is OK. For Paris, Avoid the north or east of Paris that is not close to city center.

In Tuscany, consider Florence or the smaller city of Sienna. Florence is a great walkable city, but hotels near the center will be more expensive. We love the Hotel Balesteri, great location, however, it might be too expensive for you.

Paris and Rome are a pickpockets paradise, so be sure to protect you wallet or purse and passports. I wear a money belt when visiting those cities.

You can find good restaurants without busting a budget. In Britain, pubs will have good food for reasonable prices. Still, you can find good restaurants that aren't pricey.

I'd suggest to visit also the Southern of Italy, that is much more affordable than Tuscany or Rome

Rail fares and schedules are online. (Bus schedules can be trickier.) It's critical to use your actual travel date to get a reliable fare estimate, and the price you pay may well ascend rapidly if you don't buy the ticket until later. Under normal conditions, it's important to use the right day of the week to estimate a fare if you are doing your research before tickets are released for sale on your travel date. Right now, I think schedules have been trimmed down a lot, so it may be difficult to get a good read on the full extent of your options for a trip well in the future.

For English train schedules and fares you should use the National Rail website (nationalrail.co.uk). It covers all the regular rail companies in the UK. Fares range widely (and wildly). The cheapest "Advance" tickets must usually be purchased way ahead of time; in some cases they will cost as little as 1/4 or 1/5 of the full fare. But check carefully on refund/exchange restrictions. Fully flexible full-fare tickets can be really, really expensive.

For French trains your information source should be the SNCF (https://en.oui.sncf/en/). Again, there are major savings from buying promotional-fare tickets well in advance, though average discounts seem not as steep as in England. Check the refund/exchange policies on the various types of tickets.

For Italian trains you can use Trenitalia (https://www.trenitalia.com/en.html) for all destinations or Italo (https://www.italotreno.it/en) just for trips between major cities. Italian rail tickets are among the least expensive in western Europe, but you can still save money by buying tickets in advance if you're sure of your travel plans. (That's risky right now, obviously.)

Are you still thinking about Germany? If so, you want the Deutsche Bahn website at https://www.bahn.com/en/view/index.shtml. Yet again, buy early for the best prices. In addition, Germany has a variety of regional day-tickets that are well-priced for one person and an even better bargain for two or more people traveling together. When you have your itinerary fleshed out, post the German section in the Germany forum here for guidance on rail tickets.

For two people traveling together, the 2-for-1 deals in England (many of which are for sights in London) can save a lot. Entry fees at many of the top sights are very high (though many world-class museums, including both Tates, are free/donation-requested). To qualify to get 2 tickets for the price of 1, you need a rail ticket. A 7-day Underground (tube) pass purchased at a train station (not at an Underground station) works. Remember, though, that you must fill out a voucher (available online; brochures with vouchers are not always easy to find in rail stations) and go to the ticket booth at the attraction. This is something you might not want to do at the highest-traffic places in normal times, because you could end up in an extremely long line, and your sightseeing time is valuable. It often makes sense to buy your tickets in advance, online, which may get you a modest discount and will definitely reduce your time in line. However, it's certainly possible that it will take awhile for tourist traffic to return to normal when things loosen up, so if you are prepared to be an early traveler, you may benefit from shorter lines.

Sights participating in the 2-for-1 deals do vary from time to time. A few places (like Tower of London) may not offer the deal on peak days or in peak summer months. What you see on the website is just for preliminary research. You'll need to check again a week or two before your departure so you have current information.

My husband I did a month in Europe last May/June for just over $8000, not including airfare to and from the U.S. We were not doing London and Paris, which are more expensive. We did Vienna, Budapest, Ljubljana, Venice, the Dolomites and a night in Zurich at the end. We stayed in vacation rentals, which are much more pleasant for us than hostels and averaged $100/night. I think, with careful planning, you can easily meet your budget and have a wonderful trip.

I'm figuring 30 days for London, Paris, and Florence, and Rome.

Ah, OK. If you are not also trying to do Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands (Amsterdam) with your budget, it's looking better. 10k U.S. dollars divided by 4 weeks is $2500 a week; approx. $357 a day. The exchange rate 16-17 months from now (you'd mentioned this trip being in Sept - Oct of 2021 in a previous post), is a crapshoot but we'll assume for now that it won't fluctuate wildly in your disfavor.

I don't think this is exceedingly tight for the cities you're looking at, especially if you plan to eat economically and do a lot of your sightseeing independently. You'll likely be able to take in about as many attractions with entry fees as you wish to. As mentioned above, London has many excellent, free museums, and while the "biggies" (Tower or London, Westminster, etc.) with fees are not inexpensive, that 2-for-1 acraven mentioned can be a good deal: a friend of mine who travels often to London is a fan of that one.

Paris has a sightseeing pass that can offer convenience + be a time/money saver but is not particularly useful at Versailles - it doesn't currently help you avoid the very long queue at the entrance - and requires advance reservations for the Louvre (which you're going to want to have anyway.) As with any pass, you'd need to sightsee with it aggressively to break even on the price, and be interested in enough of attractions it covers. And again, price and attraction list could change 16 months from now. Anyway, if considering a pass, choose this one instead of the overpriced Paris Passlib City Pass.

https://booking.parisinfo.com/il4-offer_i148-paris-museum-pass-entry-to-50-museums-and-monuments.aspx

I wouldn't personally consider the tourist passes offered in Rome and Florence. Entry fees, at attractions which require them, tend to be fairly reasonable, and some combine multiple sites under a single economical ticket price, For instance, this is a nice discount deal for the Uffizi, Boboli Gardens, Pitti Palace complex and Archeological Museum:

https://www.uffizi.it/en/pages/combined-ticket

For the duomo complex (baptistry, museum, crypt, bell tower and dome climb; read info carefully):
https://www.museumflorence.com
For just € 18 (+ € 2.00 pre-sale fee) this ticket provides a lot to see!

When they start selling tickets again, this is an economical ticket for the Colosseum, Palatine and Forum which includes a 45-min. guided tour of the Colosseum main levels (not the underground or uppermost tiers):

https://ecm.coopculture.it/index.php?option=com_snapp&view=products&catalogid=9A88514C-DC20-8A7C-3680-0167A820AE56&snappTemplate=template3&lang=en

Full entrance € 16,00 + tour € 5,00+Reservation fee € 2,00 = € 21.00

Attraction ticketing details can be addressed next year based on info which will be current much closer to your trip but let's just say there are umpty ways to work that budget! :O)