Rhine and beyond - itinerary ideas? Cycling?

I held off answering this because I wanted to make sure I had the book info correct.

Mainz to Koblenz is not a seven day trip, no matter how much time you spend in the towns or just watching the boats go by. It's very easy, the bike path is well marked, even in towns (where it's painted red). You don't need a guide, the path goes right along both sides of the river. And you can put your bike on the train if you want to ride like that.

Koblenz to Trier, along the Mosel is much longer, because the river doubles back on itself many times. Again the path is well marked and very wide. I prefer this route to the Rhine as (IMHO) it's more attractive, the towns are bigger and there are a lot more castles.

If you want a guide book, the ones I use are by Bikeline: https://www.mapsworldwide.com/bikeline-m376

My favorite is Rhine-Radweg #2 which is the route along the Rhine from Mainz to Basel. I prefer this because it's where I live and ride. I take the bike to one point and ride to another train station and stop along the way, because I'm not fast, I just want to look around. Also, | try not to ride in the rain, which does limit my trips. In SEP/OCT it will rain. This would be a good guide to get you near the Black Forest. (I have not ridden in the forest. The roads are narrow and steep. There I drive.)

If you need to rent a bike you'll need to think a bit locally and probably round trip, but I can't advise much on that. I can say that used bikes are not expensive (depending on what you want). There are several bike rental places in Bingen for rides along the Rhine. I expect there are others in the various cities.

Your Paris/Lyon/Colmar/Strasbourg/Freiburg/Geislingen itinerary bounces around too much. Frankly Strasbourg can be interesting, but it's expensive, and really at it's best during Christmas. Go to Geislingen from Colmar, maybe via Freiburg. If I was traveling north from Lyon I'd aim at either Dijon or Lausanne instead of Strasbourg. And you want to do a bit of research into the local festivals, because SEP/OCT is harvest time and there will be fests.

As I begin my search, I wonder about the following two concepts...

The two options represent vastly different travel styles. I think you and your wife need to make this choice first and get into the details of guides, side trips and specific base towns after that.

My input at this point:

1) Your interest in the Black Forest and in the Rhine/Mosel valleys is well worth pursuing - but I would definitely pull in OTHER resources as you get into the details of travel in these places if you want a fuller experience, as Rick's materials address them rather sketchily. Your mention of Freiburg and Baden-Baden, for example, which seem to be Rick's BF focal points - but just aren't all that "black-foresty" - reminded me of certain gaps in coverage on his pages for these regions.

2) Your mention of Stuttgart, Tübingen and Geislingen should trigger some further digging around... Tübingen is great, and there are plenty of other "-ingen" places to consider in the area...

• Esslingen (just outside Stuttgart)
• Donaueschingen (Black Forest town and source of the Danube River and a starting point for the Danube Bicycle Route or "Donauradweg", see map link below) https://www.donau-radweg.info/donaueschingen-passau
• Sigmaringen (Danube town, palace, mini-splurge "Karls Hotel" with views across the river to the palace)
• Hechingen, 20 train minutes from Tübingen and home of Hohenzollern Palace
• Stuttgart: Stuttgart's answer to Oktoberfest, the Canstatter Volksfest

TY Russ and KGC

Indeed, the two trip thoughts were quite different. My wife is definitely up for cycling and more focussed. So concept #1. Since this post first went up, I’ve looked at Lonely Planet and Eyewitness regional and Germany guides.

KGC - I will look more deeply into the Moselle. And as to Dijon, I was looking at Chalon sur Saone — Beaune — Nuits St Georges — Dijon (self-guided). https://www.freewheelingfrance.com/directory/all-tours/Burgundy/page-1/?1=1&theme=&ability=&cycling_type=Leisure%20%2F%20touring%C2%A0 Through Vélo Voyageur who we used twice in France, last year.

Both of you have given me good, additional information to work with. Russ, thanks for your comments on the Black Forest and the ingens. Your comments about all that the RS guides gloss over (or ignore) reflect my own experiences with France & Italy. Great for what Rick and his colleagues like, but a bit myopic. And the comment about the fall weather is definitely a good one to take into account.

I’ll keep digging deeper, and given our experience in France and Puglia, I will also keep looking for self-guided bike tour operators, as well as consulting with individuals who have experience cycling in Germany.

We were not on a bike trip, but when we were in Traben-Trarbach we saw VAST numbers of, mostly independent, bicyclers. I would remind you that the absolutely best views tend to be from the day-boats, not as much from paved roads. (We did drive a car from Mulheim to Trier and back, so my comment is that the LANDSCAPES on the Mosel are nicer than on the Rhine. However, the castle and rock views on (only) the "scenic Middle Rhine" are more spectacular than most constructions on the Mosel. Opinion.)

I have to note that we've had some trouble with bike groups in smaller hotels. They all come to breakfast at once, jamming the room up, and eat like locusts! Sorry.

I have to note that we've had some trouble with bike groups in smaller hotels. They all come to breakfast at once, jamming the room up, and eat like locusts! Sorry.

Love it, Tim. When my wife and I did our self-guided “8-day” bike trip down the Loire, from Blois to Saumur, we spent two days in Amboise and had somewhat similar thoughts about the RS tour group that poured into the dining room for breakfast.

Independent travel and group travel each have their benefits and shortcomings.

Tim, as to your comments about the Mosel and Rhine, you bring to mind the idea of biking down the Mosel to Koblenz and then turning the corner to add a day or so heading upstream to Boppard or Oberwesel. Choices, always, and one can never do it all.

For this trip, perhaps we will again aim for self-guided biking. It’s so much less expensive than a guided trip and we have generally great experiences. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/fabulous-tour-de-france-2-weeks-on-foot-and-by-train-2-weeks-by-e-bike and https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/southern-italy-30-days-three-ways-to-travel

Still looking for more reports about Germany, whether cycling or just interesting places to visit along the Rhine, Mosel, Neckar river valleys, the Black Forest and Tubingen and other -ingens as Russ identified.

The following was illuminating. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/self-guided-supported-bike-tour-recommendations It included a reference to radweg-reisen.com that led me to https://www.cycling-holiday.com/best-seller-cycle-routes.

I am interested in learning more about experiences with them and/or other vendors in southwestern Germany.

..the absolutely best views tend to be from the day-boats, not as much
from paved roads. (We did drive a car from Mulheim to Trier and back,
so my comment is that the LANDSCAPES on the Mosel are nicer than on
the Rhine. However, the castle and rock views on (only) the "scenic
Middle Rhine" are more spectacular than most constructions on the
Mosel. Opinion.)

I mostly support Tim's comments here... the Mosel is more peaceful, laid-back, bucolic than the Rhine - and for this reason it constitutes (IMHO) the better biking experience of the two rivers, especially where bike paths diverge from the roadways (which they do.) Biking on the Rhine IME is noisier and just more like work than pleasure. And yes, day cruises are very enjoyable on both rivers. On the Mosel, the best cruise segment iIMO is the Traben-Trarbach > Bernkastel float. See 2024 schedule, bottom-left, at this link:

https://www.moselrundfahrten.de/cams/clients/kolb/media/downloads/file_1.pdf?1713965549

Bernkastel is an unfathomably-attractive half-timbered town. Expect crowds there, schedule a visit on weekdays if possible.

Where I part with Tim is on scenic views... If you fail to spend a little time on the clifftops above the Rhine and Mosel River towns, you will miss out on what I see as the most spectacular scenery. Hike, catch a mountain lift, whatever, to some of those lookouts...

Chairlift rides:
Cochem (Mosel)
Boppard (Rhein) to Gedeonseck lookout
Assmannshausen (Rhein near Rüdesheim)

Cable car rides:
Rüdesheim (Rhein)
Koblenz (Rhein/Mosel)

Hiking to lookouts:
Prinzenkopf tower, near Bullay/Alf (Mosel)
Marksburg Castle, Braubach (Rhein)
Rheinfels Castle, St Goar (Rhein)
Reichsburg Castle, Cochem (Mosel),
Landshut Castle, Bernkastel (Mosel)
Günderodehaus, Oberwesel (Rhein)

bettundbike.de is an association of hotels that will provide luggage transfer for cyclists