Need massive itinerary help for 4 days in August ending in Frankfurt

Your wife's ideas are disconnected from realities on the ground and your time frame. It is not feasible to see all these places and fly out of FRA on the 8th or if you had more time, to see them from a single base town.

The thread you found discusses the much more reasonable option of a visit to the Rhine and Mosel River Valleys, which are on the way to Frankfurt. Think castles and castle tours (real castles, not the fake Cinderally kind of castle) + river cruising + wineries + hiking/biking + great natural scenery + dreamy old-world villages with cobblestones and half-timbered buildings from centuries ago. There are SPA towns there too if you really want one. It's all right there. Does that sound interesting?

Hi Russ, thanks for the response! Your expertise is greatly appreciated. If you offer a link to donate for your efforts, please pass it on!

I think you are right, the Rhine / Mosel Valleys option might be the most ideal.

What do you suggest in terms of:

Aug 04 (Friday) - depart amsterdam centraal via train, arrive where?? We should have time to do sightseeing on this day
Aug 05 (Sat) - open
Aug 06 (Sun) - open
Aug 07 (Mon) - open but must end up at the Hilton Frankfurt Airport Hotel as we will have to be at the airport early on Aug 08 to depart.

Let me know yoour thoughts!! thanks again, really appreciative of your insights!

Brent

Aug 04 (Friday) - depart amsterdam centraal via train, arrive where??

Great that your last night is in place. Good work.

Here's the thing... Small towns tend to be booked well for this period already. Hotel rooms seldom accommodate 4 adults, though some have apartments as well... Ideally you would have an apartment with sleeping arrangements for 4, somewhere "in town" within reasonable distance of the station. Any railway town on either the Rhine or Mosel railway will probably work in the end, but I would look first in Boppard.

Map of stations in Rhine/Mosel area... focuse on the Mosel train line (runs west out of Koblenz) and the Rhine train line running south from Koblenz:

https://www.vrminfo.de/fileadmin/data_vrminfo/PDF/2023/VRM_Schienennetzplan_2022_2023.pdf

Detailed map of Rhine towns with links

Where you end up will determine what you are able to do and where you can go on which days. But the basic visit would include at least a river cruise, maybe 2 castle tours, plus whatever else interests you. Roman history in Trier? WW II history museum in Remagen? Outdoor activities? The Bundesbank Bunker in Cochem? Cologne? The Cologne Cathedral is Germany's most-visited tourist attraction. It's stunning. If you only wished to see that in Cologne + maybe have lunch there, that'd be an option for Aug. 4 prior to arrival in Boppard or thereabouts. Do consider the "what else" - I can easily throw something together for you with your help. I just want to plan around stuff that you'd find interesting first and foremost.

Brent, please see my pm to you.

Brent, I also thought you had too much on your itinerary but that's sorted out.

But I would like to write something general about Neuschwanstein and say right away that yes many people love it and many don't.
The castle was completed in 1884 and is the fantasy of a single king who built it just for himself. He had even forbidden to made it available to the public after his death. So it's neither fake nor a tourist trap. It is what it is because that's exactly how King Ludwig II wanted it to be and one should respect this. As mentioned one might like it or not.

Personally, I don't necessarily share King Ludwig's taste when it comes to the castle's interior. But from the outside I like it a lot. And it is clear that the inside is not completely finished, because at some point even a king is running out of money :-) And he died far too soon to finish it.

These are the events happening in Frankfurt and near-by towns that week in August.
Frankfurt Street Food Fest – 4-6.08
Frankfurt Main Fest – 4-7.08
Oberürsel Medieval Fest – 5-6.08

If you are interested in history, Frankfurt has more than you may think. It is certainly one of the older cities in Germany and everyone has lived here, the Celts, Romans, Franks, Swedes and the French twice, plus being the headquarters for the American Occupation forces. Location for the Berlin Airlift, 1st freely elected Parliament, chosen site for the election of the Holy Roman Emperor since 1356, center of Jewish life in Germany for a few centuries, birthplace of Anne Frank, 1st enclosed Jewish Ghetto in Europe and longest lasting, one of the oldest churches in Germany is here. Where the Dom is, there has been a church and palace here since around 680.

Rothenburg is not the best preserved medieval town in Germany. That is a false statement as it was bombed badly in the war and 40% of it is re-built. If you want an original town, go to Büdingen, Michelstadt, Limburg, Marburg, Dinkelsbühl, Nordlingen, Esslingen, Celle, etc. Look at the Half-Timbered Route rather than the Romantic Road to find those towns. Frankfurt Höchst is on it too. https://www.deutsche-fachwerkstrasse.de/en/Homepage.html.

There are plenty of spa towns in Germany, you needn't go out of your way to Baden-Baden. Try Wiesbaden, Bad Homburg, Bad Soden, Bad Neuheim, etc. Any town with Bad in its name has a spa.

Rothenburg is not the best preserved medieval town in Germany. That is
a false statement as it was bombed badly in the war and 40% of it is
re-built.

I like to support this statement with this source. The percentage number for re-building ratio I read is a little higher in archives which consider also strong damaged buildings which were not able to be repaired.

Train to Cologne. Store bags, visit cathedral next door. Retrieve bags, continue to a small town south of Koblenz. Boppard is fine. I always stay in Bacharach. For your remaining time before Frankfurt, visit attractions that interest you between Koblenz and Mainz, and/or along the Mosel.

For those who want to know how Rothenburg was looking shortly after the war : https://youtu.be/NguWGT87VzQ
They say about 60% of the city is not destroyed which is in sync with above statements.

"We are an athletic family..."

If you manage to make it to the Rhine, nice trails are everywhere... It's a steep walk from the towns to the clifftops of the Rhine gorge, but each hike rewards you with views like this one, near St. Goar.

If your previous experience includes climbing as well, you might give Boppard's "Klettersteig" a go. The first 40 seconds of this video highlight the experience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaWgc3VvFio

Less challenging but still steep is the trail from Oberwesel to the Günderodehaus, which rewards you not just with views but also with refreshments or a meal after your trek through the cliffside vineyards. I've approached this place twice from Oberwesel and once from St. Goar... it's my personal favorite in the area.

Whatever you choose, stop back by for tips or at least a report on your travel plans.

Thank you all for your helpful links and information. I am busy researching a place to stay on the Rhine for 3 nights. I think my task will be difficult for a family of 4. I will keep you updated.

Does anybody know if the Bellevue Rhein hotel in Boppard has connecting rooms? Can someone who speaks German call and ask them? :-)

They will speak English - you can email/phone them:

https://www.bellevue-boppard.de/en/contact

Nearly every hotel in these Rhine towns will have English-speaking staff. The Dutch, the Chinese, the American, and the British tourists who frequent hotels there seldom know German, but they do speak English, as a rule, so hotel staff must use English in this line of work.

Hello, the hotel spoke very good English, so I have booked 2 connecting rooms for 3 nights at the Bellevue Rheinhotel in Boppard August 4,5,6. I think that hotel is close to the train station?

My only remaining item of confusion is how to get actually get from Amsterdam Centraal to Boppard via train which will allow us to stop in Koln for a few hours on August 4? and also allow us to travel freely the days of august 5,6 and 7? I need some guidance advice on what tickets and what trains I need to buy?

thanks!
Brent

Use the DB site:

https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Enter from/to destinations and passenger info, desired hour of departure.

Also enter a stopover in Cologne... of 30 minutes, 3 hours, 5 hours doesn't matter.

THEN... Click on "Types of Transport" and use the pull-down box there to select the Cologne - Boppard travel segment. Then de-select all the long-distance trains (ICE, EC, IC, etc.) for that segment.

Once that's entered, you will see itineraries that include only regional trains for the Cologne to Boppard segment. This is what you want, as it allows you to leave Cologne not only at the time stated on your schedule but at ANY hour you wish on any regional train sequence that same day using the same Cologne > Boppard route... irrespective of the train times on your schedule. With this ticket, you can spend as much or as little time in Cologne as you wish.

Be sure to read conditions for purchase carefully... Sparpreis ticket refund rules are very restrictive.

Don't worry about the free travel during your Boppard stay yet. The VRM pass will be provided by your hotel.

"I think that hotel is close to the train station?"

Not as close as some, but very near the town square, and a walkable distance to the station in this fairly compact town.

When you visit the Dom in Cologne, buy the extra Treasury ticket. It's very good. Also be sure to look up and see the unusual Contemporary stained glass windows (two colors, in squares) by famous living German artist Gerhard Richter. For a while he held the record for highest auction price for a painting by a living artist. (Not that this is a guarantee of quality!)

If you have time, the Applied Arts Museum (MAK) might appeal to your daughters. You might want a refreshing 200ml glass (normal tiny size) of Kolsch beer, served by gravity from a chilled wooden keg.

There are many other good museums in Cologne, but I see your time is limited.

Another vote to visit the treasury in the dom

Presumably you now have a ticket to Boppard on the 4th and are sticking with the Bellevue there.

Organizing your time on the 5th and 6th: One strategy is to hit the "right" side of the Rhine on one day and the "left" on another. One suggestion...

1) LEFT ("Linke Rheinseite")

8:15 - 8:42 train to Bingen (Rhein) Hbf, walk to dock
9:15 - Rhine Cruise to St. Goar; step off in Bacharach for 2 hrs, 10-12 to see town; reboard KD, arrive 12:55 St Goar
Lunch
See Rheinfels Castle
16:00 - 16:12 Train to Boppard
Take the chairlift ride (closes 18:00) and enjoy the views.

2) RIGHT ("Rechte Rheinseite")

8:23 - 9:52 train to Rüdesheim (change in Koblenz); many sightseeing choices, lunch
14:06 - 14:53 Train to Braubach; hike up to Marksburg Castle for 16:00 tour in English; dinner in town after tour?
17:53, 18:53, or 19:53... train back to Boppard (50 minutes, change in Koblenz)

Note: all the trains for the two days above are covered by the VRM Guest Ticket EXCEPT... On CRUISE day (Sat or Sun) you will need a ticket for Oberwesel > Bingen since the Guest Ticket covers only Boppard > Oberwesel. You can buy this ticket at the ticket machine in Boppard, or by app, or in advance online.

3)
Flex day with numerous options... Stay in the area for hiking? biking? train trip up the Mosel to Cochem? A day in MAINZ that breaks up your journey to FRA airport? Ticketing TBD.

If staying in the area... Direct train from Boppard to FRA airport (17:16, 19:16, takes 1 hr. 18 min.)
If in Mainz...Stow bags in a Mainz station locker... Direct trains to airport every 20-30 minutes, trip is 20-25 minutes.

I’m 74 and not athletic. In May I stayed in Boppard at the Hotel Guenther next door to the Bellevue. It was. a 10 minute walk from the Bahnhof to the hotel.

Ok I finally have some more time to work on this again, thanks to all who continue to post, I hope to post my semi final itinerary soon...I did make a second hotel reservation in Bacharach at the Hotel Am Markt.

Has anyone every stayed there? I think Bacharach seems like maybe just slightly for choice than Boppard? The Bellevue Rheinhotel and Hotel Am Markt seem to be roughly similar? train stations are about 400m and 450m apart respectively according to google maps?

I did make a second hotel reservation in Bacharach at the Hotel Am Markt. Has anyone every stayed there?

There are some forum members here who have stayed in one - and some who've chosen the other... but I can't recall any one individual reporting on BOTH places... there aren't many of us who make multiple trips to the Rhine, stay in different Rhine towns, and try out different hotels. Rick Steves' readers/followers/forum members in fact tend to follow Rick Steves and his specific recommendations for the most part. And Rick Steves says "BACHARACH" loud and clear in all his materials. In fact, I can't recall anything he has ever said or written about Boppard. He basically ignores it. Thus you will surely get more forum praises for the Am Markt than the Bellevue - and more for Bacharach than Boppard - due to this site's mathematical predisposition toward Bacharach and its hotels.

The Bellevue and the Am Markt may be roughly comparable. But for comparisons you'll need to rely mostly on the body of online reviews at the hotel websites, I think, rather on this forum.

One thing for certain... the Bellevue is located right on Boppard's car-free river promenade and has rooms with views of the Rhine and the river gorge. The Am Markt is in town on the Marktplatz and offers no such views or riverfront walking option out front. Bacharach's waterfront is separated from the town by an elevated railway, the main Rhine River roadway, a parking lot, etc.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Bacharach_Luftbild_01.jpg

Hey Brent
I'm late to the game here but I have visited all those sites except Baden Baden. My #1 is Rothenburg. With kids watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang before you go. It's the town with no children in the movie. There is a free (tips) nightwatchman tour that is exceptional and just a great place to visit overall. Neuschwantstein is nice but not much else there. If your a Disney fan that's the castle. My #2 would be Strasbourg. Nice city and your not far from Comar. Comar is the home of the Statue of Liberty architect, the site of a lot of WW2 history including Audie Murphy.

Brent, I spent 3 nights at Bellevue Rheinhotel in Boppard and loved it there. The hotel is gorgeous with a large restaurant where you can enjoy a wonderful dinner. The rooms were comfortable, very clean and lovely decor. The staff was great - pleasant and helpful - and they have a lift as well.

The hotel is a short walk from the train station - maybe 15 minutes? - and is an enjoyable walk with lots to see on the way there. The hotel sits right on the promenade, and the KD cruise pier sits just a few steps from the entrance to the hotel, so it is very convenient. Boppard is a nice place to stay as well - I enjoyed it a lot. There was a decent number of good restaurants, some shopping and even several grocery stores within walking distance if you opt for a picnic lunch or dinner.

All in all, I would not hesitate to stay here again. ETA: FWIW, I was originally planning to stay at the Hotel am Markt in Bacharach, but after reading a few reviews and checking out the locations of each, I cancelled that one and switched to the Bellevue Rheinhotel and am very glad I did.

We stayed at Hotel am Markt in Bacharach last week for 3 nights. We have stayed in Boppard previously, but not at the Bellevue. I would choose Boppard over Bacharach, easily. Boppard is a bigger town, with more restaurant options. The train tracks are not right in town, as they are in Bacharach. The Bellevue is a great location on the river. I considered booking it, but decided to stay somewhere different. It has an elevator, unlike Hotel am Markt. Get rooms with air conditioning, you’ll probably need it. Hotel am Markt sits in between the surprisingly busy street and the railroad tracks. Lots of noise from either direction. Bacharach is very cute and worth a visit, but you don’t need more than an hour or two to see everything. Many places were closed when we were there.

We have stayed in this apartment in Boppard: https://abnb.me/nplPGIJEkBb

It worked great for our family of 4 in 2018. Quiet location, not far from the train station.

Ok thanks for the last two posters who filled me on on Bellevue Rheinhotel in Boppard verus Hotel am Markt in Bacharach, I canceled the reservation at Hotel am Markt in Bacharach and so Bellevue Rheinhotel it is!

I ran out of time and am just now finalizing the itinerary for this part of the trip. What I am really stuck on is taking the train from Amsterdam Centraal to Boppard. I bought a point to point train ticket from London to Amsterdam. I can't figure out if I can buy a 5 day german rail pass and that will allow us to get from amsterdam, stop in Cologne for a few hours, and then jump on a train to Boppard?
I am looking for that flexibility. Or do I have to buy a point to point from amsterdam to cologne and then use the german rail pass from there?

Thoughts? and thank so much for all of your wonderful help!

Brent

A German Rail Pass is no good for transport through the Netherlands from Amsterdam.

Strongly suggest the following for Aug. 4 departure:

Lv A'dam 8:08 with destination Boppard.

Enter 4-hr. stopover in Cologne.

Under types of transport, use the pull-down menu to deselect the high-speed trains for the Cologne > Boppard journey. This will pull up regional trains for this part of your trip so that you can travel AT ANY HOUR YOU LIKE BETWEEN COLOGNE AND BOPPARD ON REGIONAL TRAINS THAT AFTERNOON.

Select the itinerary that arrives 17:44 in Boppard. Then click on "details."

You'll see that the train to Cologne arrives at the Messe Deutz station at 10:46. The RE train leaves Messe Deutz at 11:20 for Cologne Hbf. This is where you store bags and see the town.

Then at 15:56 the RE train leaves Cologne Hbf for a direct trip to Boppard. But if you want to leave Cologne earlier or later, you can just do that on ANY of the regional trains heading to Boppard that same day. This is the flexibility you need.

Current fare is €78 pp.

what is the url where I can book this?

I think i found it? https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/

ok Russ, please take a look at this Loom video I made:
https://www.loom.com/share/6c6697b2b57b421098ccb75427840032?sid=fce4f709-d2dc-4123-86b6-ef96e4979480
it seems to almost match almost what you described:

"You'll see that the train to Cologne arrives at the Messe Deutz station at 10:46. The RE train leaves Messe Deutz at 11:20 for Cologne Hbf. This is where you store bags and see the town.
Then at 15:56 the RE train leaves Cologne Hbf for a direct trip to Boppard"

except for the part about Koln Messe/Deutz and Koln Hbf, that part is unclear to me. Those are separate stations? so we would get off at Messe Deutz and get on regional train to Koln Hbf?

Brent

The journey you specified will work for ticketing just fine. I suggested the one listed for 8:08 immediately prior, which will also work, because it SHOWS the departure from KOELN MESSE-DEUTZ at 15:07, which will get you to KOELN HBF sooner than the 15:50 departure will. No sense waiting around at Messe Deutz, a station on the opposite side of the Rhine.

Either ticket will be valid for you because each is regional and each will take the same route to the main station where you can deposit bags. and see the town. But as long as you arrive on time in Messe-Deutz, I would board the 15:07 RE train.

That loom thing is impressive. I cannot do that :(

Let me just say, a huge shout out to Russ for his patience and guidance as it pertains to travelling by train. Americans do not travel by train, unless you live near New York and Washington DC. The majority of the rest of the country has never been on a train, except for maybe a tourist experience.

The Deutsche Bahn train system to an outsider, with it's mix of high speed and regional trains, and all the different stations, and platforms, etc.. is one of the most confusing systems I have ever encountered. Thank God for Russ, with him and about 3 hours of research it all made sense. However the DB website lets you do all the way till the end, do all the work, enter all th epayment information, and then they give you a one sentence message, "I'm sorry there are no seats available". What???

I think European booking systems are so backwards. Why would they not instruct me why no seats were available or offer an alternate time? Nope. I had to guess. I tried to buy first class, that did not work. I tried accepting "any" as a seat option. That did not work. I tried an earlier train, that did not work. Finally, I chose the train with the "highest" demand, and of course, the highest price and that worked!! It worked out for the better anyways, as my family probably could not get ready by 8am, so 10am was better.

So I have train tickets now from Amsterdam to Cologne, then to Boppard, I have a hotel in Boppard...now I just need figure out a couple castles, a cruise, a hike or two and some restaurants...

any suggestions for unique, non-touristy, incredible restaurants near Boppard? any Michelin star restaurants near by?
what about lunch in Cologne? any great suggestions near the train station?

Trying to find a tour to see the Treasury at the DOM in Cologne, of course that's difficult as well. :-)

Brent

Glad to hear your longer trip is in pocket. You're correct that there's a significant learning curve.

Seats: this refers to seat reservations. You do not need seat reservations to ride the train in Germany unless the itinerary indicates they are mandatory. Those who choose to get reservations do so for just the segment they intend to travel. So person #1 traveling from, say, Amsterdam NL to Frankfurt on one ICE train might reserve a seat for the full distance this train travels. If person #2 boards in A'dam and gets off that train in Arnhem NL, would reserve only to Arnhem. Person #3, bound for Cologne, might board in Arnhem, so he reserves just that leg.

None of this means the reservation-free ticket-holder can't ride the train sitting down. Your train leaving A'dam will have SOME unreserved seats available because not everyone going to Frankfurt boards in Amsterdam. You just find one and sit down. Now, maybe there's a window seat you like...; it says "reserved", but it's for Person #3 who boards in Arnhem. You could take that seat instead if you like, and when the train stops in Arnhem, get up and move to Person #2's seat, which is now vacant since his reserved travel segment ends in Arnhem. You are already on the train, so seat-seekers boarding in Arnhem can not beat you to that seat. This is how it works, typically, if you end up on a train that's really crowded. It might be a bit inconvenient, but it's not that big a deal. I've been traveling for decades in Germany, Benelux, Switzerland and Austria, nearly always without reservations, with my other two family members, often in June and July. We've never gone seatless.

(Of course, if you want to make a long trip in just one seat, buying and reserving for peak-season or holiday-period travel on popular routes is best done much earlier than just a couple of weeks out. Tickets can be very inexpensive that way as well.)

Reservations for Cologne > Koblenz segment on regional trains: Fuhgetaboutit. Regional trains are great, but they are classified as local transport... like city buses... there are no reservations possible, at least not in second class. Just arrive a little early, get on, and take any seat you like.

I had to buy 4 tickets for my family, and given that 2 of those tickets were for children, my guess is that the DB site has some sort of check that requires us all to be in a group or something...I have no idea, all I know is that for the ICE portion of the trip from A'dam to Cologne, the site refused to sell me the tickets for the 8:08 or earlier ICE train, however the 10:05 train it worked without issue, so that's water under the bridge.

Next question, for the sat / sun / mon travel (august 5.6.7) up and down the Rhein, how do I get tickets that will allow us to travel at will those days, and then also back to Frankfurt for departure?

thanks!
Brent

I took the liberty of this little "side trip" into the ticket/seat res. details with DB because your struggle with the topic paved the path... there are plenty of other "outsiders" like you who will struggle as you did with this part of rail travel in Germany, will also ask themselves why DB is selling tickets when there are "no seats", and will in fact search this forum and perhaps this thread for answers. For you, it is indeed water under the bridge.

"...how do I get tickets that will allow us to travel at will those days, and then also back to Frankfurt for departure?"

The "at will" ticket I referenced previously, the VRM Guest Ticket (Gästeticket), will be provided to you by Hotel Bellevue staff when you check in, or possibly shortly thereafter. It is free of charge and there will be one for each of your family members (I think.) I sent you a link about this ticket from the Boppard tourist office website on 6/29 via private message.

There is another link below from the VRM Transit Authority pages which provides details:

https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tickets/leisure-tickets/vrm-guest-ticket/

Have a look at my posts from 6/29 and 6/30 on this thread for outing suggestions on the 5th and 6th. There are of course other choices too.

The Guest Tickets will get you to any of the destinations inside VRM zone. At the page linked to above, click on the box that says "Details about the VRM Gästeticket" to see the colored VRM-zone map.

How it works: with your guest tickets in hand, board any regional train you like and travel anywhere you like within the travel zone on any day and at any hour.

I do NOT know how this works with kids, exactly. The rules say the Guest Ticket is issued to any guest who pays the €1.50 tourist tax. If the hotel doesn't normally charge this tax for kids, maybe they will need to do that for the kids to get their Guest Tickets. The rules also say that an official ID should be carried for each passenger, so it could be that a ticket checker will require not ONLY ID from the adults but from the kids too. SUGGEST YOU ASK THE FRONT DESK ABOUT ALL THIS.

Are you traveling to Mainz for sightseeing and staying there on the 7th? Overnighting at the airport? I've forgotten at this point.

Of course you'll need tickets to get there. Mainz is outside the VRM Guest Ticket zone. For your family, whether from Oberwesel or Boppard, the trip to Mainz will cost €44 (3 paying passengers, one free child) using a Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket day pass after 9 am on the regional trains (buy at Boppard station, no price advantage for pre-purchasing, no seat reservations.)

https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tickets/leisure-tickets/rheinland-pfalz-ticket/

But this isn't just a one-way ticket. It's a free-wheeling day pass that permits travel around the entire state of R-P and Saarland as well, a very large area, at no additional cost. There are many good destination options on this day. The only small trick will be deciding where to drop bags while you explore, as lockers are not available everywhere.

If your end-destination the 7th is FRANKFURT or to FRANKFURT AIRPORT, both of which are outside Rheinland-Pfalz, you'll likely need some relatively inexpensive supplemental tickets that can be bought at Mainz station.

Hello all participants, thanks to Russ and all of your comments, the itinerary is coming together nicely!

One additional remaining question, which I've found difficult to answer pertains to this hike from Russ

"Less challenging but still steep is the trail from Oberwesel to the Günderodehaus, which rewards you not just with views but also with refreshments or a meal after your trek through the cliffside vineyards. I've approached this place twice from Oberwesel and once from St. Goar... it's my personal favorite in the area."

I found other links to this trail from Russ in previous posts, but those links have expired. I am looking for instructions on where to go from when we get off the train (or maybe KD cruise) to attempt the hike up to Günderodehaus.

I used Komoot to make this map of the route they said to use:
https://www.loom.com/i/7856f252b30e4046aec90c00f2d52156

That seems reasonable at 1.28 miles each way, and from what I can gather...just not sure if that's the route you were mentioning Russ from Oberwesel?

Yes indeed, there are a couple of different routes, but that will do it.

From the Günderodehaus website... open hours:

ÖFFNUNGSZEITEN
Wir sind täglich von 12:00-18:00 für Sie da. Montag und Dienstag ist Ruhetag. (Closed Mon & Tue)

Hi all,

On our last day in Boppard, we plan on taking the train one stop over to Oberwesel and spending a small bit of time there, then returning to our Bellevue Rheinhotel, checking out and take the train from Boppard to Mainz, storing our luggage at the Mainz Bahnhof, spending some time in Mainz and then heading over later in the evening to the Hilton Frankfurt Airport.

How far is the Mainz market from the train station? any suggestions for a unique lunch? any other fun stuff anyone can recommend that is within walking distance of the train station?

Keep in mind we've got a 12 year old and 15 year old and will have done castles, churches, shylines, medieval towns, etc..Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

Thanks for all your help!!! We leave for London in 2 hours!

Brent

Monday Aug 7:

It would be my choice not to backtrack to Boppard. I'd rather check out, catch the train to Oberwesel, and continue from there to Mainz. the actual time on the train for the round trip to Oberwesel is 30 minutes but I suspect you'll need that much time again on foot in Boppard to do that backtracking.

So my suggestion is that you contact the Tourist office in Bacharach and ask whether they will let you leave your bags in their office on this day. I have left bags myself in other nearby towns like St. Goar, Braubach, Bad Sobernheim, and Bingen on previous trips. The TI offices are aware of the absence of station lockers in their small towns, and my guess is that Oberwesel will treat you as I've been treated previously.

TOURISTINFORMATION
Tel: 06744 710624
Fax: 06744 1540
E-Mail: [email protected]

(Hours) Öffnungszeiten:
Mo–Fr 9 Uhr –13 Uhr
und 14 Uhr – 17 Uhr
Sa + So 10 Uhr –14 Uhr

WC and the tourist office are on the Marktplatz.

https://www.niederrheinscout.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Stadtmauerrundgang-Oberwesel.jpg

Mainz, August 7.

The most enjoyable part of Mainz isn't the area near the Mainz Hbf station. I suggest you continue one stop further to the Mainz Roemisches Theater Station, which does have lockers (Schliessfächer) now, apparently; 15 of them:

https://www.bahnhof.de/mainz-roemisches-theater/schliessfaecher

That's not many, but I suspect you will be successful as it's a Monday.

The walk from this station into Mainz's center is shorter and much more pleasant, altogether.

At the rear of this station there is an unearthed theater from Ancient Rome. The Mainzer Stadtpark is nearby and beautifully kept. Follow nearby Neutorstrasse into town. It becomes Augustinerstrasse, the main passenger zone walk through the attractive old town zone and onward to the Marktplatz. Lots of cafes and shops here, and the Augustinerkirche (St. Augustine Church) is there too. Peek inside for a few minutes, very pretty. There should be a market on Monday on the Leichhof, a square near the Martinsdom, Mainz's main cathedral, which you will probably walk right into if you follow Augustinerstrasse to the end.

There are dozens of places to shop just off the Marktplatz in Mainz's large pedestrian zone.

Most trains leaving Mainz Hbf for FRA airport will also stop at the Mainz RT station. It's no trouble to get to the airport directly from the MRT station.

Train Tickets Aug. 7

Assuming you will be able to use the Guest Ticket for the trip to Oberwesel this morning (and also for Oberwesel > Boppard > Oberwesel if you choose to backtrack...) but you will need tickets for the rest.

I've been playing with different ticketing options... I believe you'd do best with these...

• Normal DB ticket for Oberwesel > Bacharach (€8.70 total w/ 3 paying passengers and one free kid.) Can be bought at any ticket machine or on DB app.

• RMV Group Day Ticket ("Gruppentageskarte, 5 personen") for Bacharach > Frankfurt (M) Flughafen Regionalbahnhof ("über Rüsselsheim" is the correct routing option.) Unlike other RMV tickets, this day pass allows for your free-wheeling stopover in Mainz. Cost is €37.50. Buy it with the DB or RMV app prior to boarding your train to Mainz.

The above tickets are valid only on regional trains. Avoid boarding high-speed trains (ICE, etc.)

Note that Bacharach has entered the discussion only as a ticketing point. You do not have to get off the train in Bacharach as you travel from Oberwesel to Mainz .

With those teens, rather than stopping in Mainz, come into Frankfurt. The Main Fest is happening and I think your teens might enjoy this a lot more than wandering around Mainz, as much as I like Mainz.
Rides are along the river, including a ferris wheel to give you a good view of the city, food, music and at 22:00, fireworks. This is one of the oldest festivals in Frankfurt, dating back to the 1300s.

Russ, there is no market in Mainz on Mondays. Unless I have missed a link to that.

The Monday market I mention is a smallish neighborhood event in the middle of everything tucked away behind the Dom on the Leichhof Square, which is not noticeable if you're out in the Marktplatz area. You'd have to be walking between Augustinerstrasse and the Marktplatz to stumble across it. I remember being surprised by it myself. The market is still listed on the official Mainz website markets page as open for business on Mondays until 18:00. Nothing flashy or fancy, nothing at all like the Mainfest carnival-like event, just a bit of everyday Mainz.

This simplified map shows the RMT train station, the park area (in green, south of the station,) the Leichhof in relation to the main Marktplatz and Dom, as well as the tangle of pedestrians-only streets in Mainz (the ones in the light salmon color) where you'll find Mainz's many shops and cafes.

If you're looking for a carnival-style event, Mainfest looks like a good bet. Haven't done it myself. (You might have time for Mainz in the afternoon with Mainfest in the evening afterward, depending on how you spend your time in O'wesel that morning.) To reach Mainfest from Oberwesel (or Boppard) your train journey will take you through Mainz, through the airport area, then take you eastward beyond the airport into Frankfurt. The fireworks will mean a pretty late back-tracking trip to your hotel at the airport.

But if you're looking for "low-key" with some pre-flight shopping/dining/simple sightseeing, Mainz is likely the simpler and less demanding. Mainz has a lot of nice meal venues. The Heiliggeist might make for an enjoyable final meal.

Well, show your teens these photos and ask them if they would rather go shopping for produce in Mainz at a tiny market, or go to a fest.
Frankfurt has so much to see and do, that it would be a shame to miss it. Drop off your bags at the airport hotel and head on in to Frankfurt. The fireworks will be over by 22:15, and you can be tucked into bed at your airport hotel by 23:00 or so. The trains are quick and frequent. You can sleep on the plane the next day.

https://www.frankfurt-tourismus.de/en/Discover-Experience/Festivals-Events/Main-Festival

Hello and thank you to all for your ideas and help. We are on the plane returning home. The middle Rhine was amazing, the family loved every minute. The rain was not an issue. We had 4 assigned seats on an ICE train into Cologne. Very nice for a family. Bowne another train broke down on the track and caused 30 minute delay. We stored our luggage in Cologne Hbf Station, it took awhile and many of the machines were broken, but it did work, it just cost us 24 euros.
The cathedral and Treasury were great suggestions and I am so glad you all suggested to add the Treasury. Just incredible,

We had lunch at a German Brewhouse, drank lots of Kolsch, retrieved or luggage and then got onto a regional train to Boppard. The regional trains were a crowded mess and do not work well with large suitcases. We had to stand for 12 stops and then the rest found seats, but with so many people coming and going the luggage was always in the way. Also something very odd occurred, midway through the train made a stop, something was announced in German, and the whole train literally ran out the door, down the platform and boarded another train. We followed after a policeman yelled at us to get off. Once again we had no seats.

Boppart and the Bellevue Rheinhotel were incredible, our rooms were large, the beds comfy, and had large balconies overlooking the Rhine. The walk from the train station was very enjoyable and short. The first night we had dinner reservations at Rőmerburg Weinhaus, that was delicious and the owner greeted us by name.

From there the itinerary fell apart. Ẃe spent the entire first day in boppard. The Rheinhotel offers an incredible buffet breakfast for 13.5 euro per guest. We slept in, had coffee on the patio and a long breakfast till 11am. We spent a few hours exploring the town and the Roman fort and then we walked up to Chairlift - that was amazing! The views were stunning and the ride so peaceful. There is a restaurant 2 minute walk from the top, I think it has the greatest view I've ever seen... and almost no tourists! We drank German ɓier anc Oberwesel Riesling and had some great food, then we return to the hotel for maybe a couple hours of rest before going for a late 9pm dinner. A great great first day. We also toured the beautiful church in boppard.

On the 2nd day, we got up earlier,had another fine breakfast at the hotel and took the train to st, goar. The trains were packed again. St goar was a lot of fun, we hiked up to Burg rheinful, and spent some great time in the wind and rain (also some sun!) . We were there quite awhile, then we had lunch at the rheinfel pub, not the restaurant, the pub is sort of hidden underneath the restaurant. Very good. Amazing flammkuchen ( very light Flatbread pizza)...then we hiked back to train station and went to Oberwesel, our intentions were to go to birgen and do the afternoon scenic river tour, but the train was late and with no seats on train, we decided we were having so much fun at each town, wed just stop at Oberwesel... that town was dead on a Sunday, we walked the entire city wall and never saw anyone..kids loved the wall, stopped at a beautiful winery downtown and drank copious amounts of German riesling and spätburgunder, their desserts are something special. So it was a great day, loads of fun, we returned to boppard for naps and Indian Food at night.

I decided that returning to Frankfurt on the train was not a good idea. The trains are great if you have a backpack and maybe for 1 or 2 travelers, but for a family who wants to be together it was a loud, standing room only mess. A merchant told me that the Deutsche ɓahn had implememted a flat fee subscription for Germans and now the trains are very busy...ICE train was great using economy premium, but not the regional trains. I hired a car to take us from boppard to frankfurt...that was very relaxing and we got to see a lot of countryside. Germany is quite beautiful

We have decided to try and come back next year. Stay in boppard again, but this time we will rent ebikes. It seems like a great way to get around from city to city... and then visit all the cities we missed! THANKS to everybody and especially Russ, your advice made our trip to the Middle Rhine magical....the beauty is draw dropping and the citizens of Boppard were very very nice. I love wine, but admit I've looked over the wines of the middle Rhine....that is too bad, they are excellent, and look forward to catching up on all many great wines I've missed!

Brent, I’m glad you had an enjoyable trip with your family. You said your itinerary fell apart, but then go on to describe lovely days, so what did you mean by this?
BTW, we also recently completed our first trip to Germany all by train. We found the DB site crazy confusing and gave up and just paid a small fee and booked all our trains on RailEurope. Much, much easier!

We found the DB site crazy confusing

The best organized rail website in the world. Maybe the trains don't run on time, but the website works flawlessly.

@diveloonie: The regional train trips that Brent found problematic do not involve bookable seats at Raileurope, DB, or other sites.

@brent: Thanks for getting back to the forum with your report. Glad you enjoyed yourselves. I think your experience makes a good case for setting aside additional time in the Rhine/Mosel area for casual sightseeing and poking around. It's just a nice place to be alive. Couple comments:

1) Boppard's Chairlift restaurant: Sounds like you were at Gedeonseck. Awesome spot.

2) "The regional trains were a crowded mess"... That's a shame. I think what you heard is accurate, that much of it probably has to do with the new €49/mo. Deutschland Ticket. The absurdly-low price is surely drawing people out of the woodwork. I mean, it was busy on these regional trains during rush hour and on FRI - SUN before this became available in May. Sunday trains during peak travel season were predictably at capacity. I used to see lots of older couples who would share a VRM or Rheinland-Pfalz group day pass and for €7-€10 p.p. and would ride the trains much as you did, hopping off and on, sipping wine, doing some minor sightseeing, etc. But the D-T is the kind of unparalleled government giveaway that prompts a lot of unrestrained, indiscriminate, and unmotivated travel among the citizenry. It might pull some people out of their commuter cars, but it is likely drawing in a contingent of "joy-riders" as well. The system can only provide good service if demand for that service is at reasonable levels - which may indeed have been exceeded this season.

On top of this, school let out for summer vacation in the Rhine area on July 24. And post-Covid, pent-up demand for travel to places like the Rhine has put further pressure on the seams.

I'm hopeful that the D-Ticket will double in price. I hope you're able to return sometime, preferably during shoulder season.

The regional trains as well as the ICE were packed with people left standing, their choice or predicament. This is what I saw in June/July. There were routes I stood among them.

The DB website is the train website that I prefer to all others when looking up connections not only in Germany but also any elsewhere in Europe, Poland, Sweden, France, Belgium, etc., without a doubt absolutely the easiest to navigate .

The best organized rail website in the world. Maybe the trains don't run on time, but the website works flawlessly.

Dear Sam, just because my experience is not your experience does not invalidate my experience! You cannot book multiple trains and put them in a cart like you can on RailEurope.

DB Site: There is indeed a learning curve. It's not instantly transparent, partly because German train culture is as unique as German grammar is. I'd probably agree with diveloonie that other ticket sellers have less complicated website formatting and procedures and are more approachable for the less experienced.

That said, like Fred and Sam have commented, DB is tops for my purposes as well when it comes to Germany. I don't think that our shared opinion on DB makes us "right" or negates anyone's personal experience to the contrary.

OP Brent, btw, required only ONE pre-purchased ticket, so a DB "cart" would not have helped him much. The rest of his trips were all short regional train journeys for which tickets bought in advance at ANY website would be undesirable or counterproductive. Some were accomplished with a free Guest Ticket (hooray for free!) Travelers, their journeys, and their ticketing needs differ greatly... I tend to look at each itinerary as a snowflake.

I used to see lots of older couples who would share a VRM or Rheinland-Pfalz group day pass and for €7-€10 p.p. and would ride the trains much as you did, hopping off and on, sipping wine, doing some minor sightseeing, etc. But the D-T is the kind of unparalleled government giveaway that prompts a lot of unrestrained, indiscriminate, and unmotivated travel among the citizenry. It might pull some people out of their commuter cars, but it is likely drawing in a contingent of "joy-riders" as well.
???? Unrestrained, indiscriminate and unmotivated travel? Joy Riders??
Maybe Germans just want to travel on vacation and go places in their country that they have never seen before? Maybe Germans with a low income? These have to be the most discriminatory comments I have seen on this forum. How sad to see a forum member wealthy enough to travel overseas, put down a country that wants their residents to be able to travel in their own country at a reasonable cost.
As to the "older couples" sharing a ticket? Everyone does this, not just seniors. Talk about being out of touch with what is normal for everyone in a country.

Sorry to the OP for hijacking this thread, but these comments made me so angry when I read them, I had to say something.

I had one incident happen on a regional train ride this time in June which I had experienced only once prior on a trip some years ago near Hamburg. This time it happened in south Germany. You ride DB long enough and you will indeed get a variety of experiences.

On the way back to Ingolstadt, something was amiss with the door. At least that was the message. One heard the announcement in German to get off. Obviously, the train could not move. Luckily, we were still in the platform area at that moment. Upon hearing the announcement, I headed out that way as did the others. The announcement was made in English too but the salient info came in German first. Don't expect the announcements in German and English to be the same, always more info in the German announcement.

So, the entire coach proceeded to get off as did the coach behind us. This was early evening, 18:00 or so, with everyone was standing pretty close to one another on the platform, not knowing what to do or when the next train would arrive to get us us out of this predicament, looking at their iPhones.

I would estimate that 95% or more were locals, the others I noticed standing near me were Indian or Russian. The wait went on.
.... I just looked at the overheard electronic board from time to time telling the arrival of the next train. The weather wasn't too hot. I figured we would be waiting for one hour or thereabouts.

Probably close to one hour, a train for us pulled in. At that point you just hope when it stops a door is in front you or close enough so that you quickly can get on. No doubt, people remained civil, orderly, and obviously, since this was a regional train, it's first come first served as to seats. It was packed with lots of people standing everywhere or sitting on the floor. I never saw or heard anyone irate in any of this. You put up with it as you see that done by everyone else.

The Deutschland-Ticket offers unlimited travel throughout the entire country's regional transit system for one month at €49, a price that may be very attractive but is UNREASONABLE as I see it. In April this year, just prior to the D-Ticket, "reasonable" pricing really was reasonable... Long-distance travel by regional train was bought by the day. Let's say you wanted to travel Hamburg > Frankfurt trip by regional train. The choices were...

• €79.50 pp for a normal ticket, which nearly no one bought then or buys now, or...
• the Day Pass for Germany, priced at €44/1, €51/2. Both were/are "walk-up" prices.

Hamburg > Frankfurt is no small trip. It's 310 miles and 8+ regional train hours. But at just €25.50 - that's the approximate cost for five .5-liter beers! - or €44 for the solo-traveler, it was/is still a pretty reasonable price for anyone, including the low-income resident.

But As Jo points out... "As to the "older couples" sharing a ticket? Everyone does this..." Absolutely true. Before the D-Ticket, groups of 3-5 people of all sorts were onto the regional Länder Tickets and the Day Pass for Germany. And what that means is that back then, a group of 5 could make the 310-mile, 8+-hr. trip from Hamburg to Frankfurt for only €14 each! That's hardly the kind of pricing that keeps people, whether rich or poor, from making train trips.

So as I see it, the D-Ticket has taken regional train pricing from "very reasonable" to absurdly cheap and absurdly flexible. And when that happens, the system is to some degree predictably and negatively impacted (more passengers making more and longer trips, people riding the train just to ride the train = delays, crowding, etc.) Train infrastructure doesn't just suddenly appear when passenger numbers rise. Transportation authorities have reported they just don't have the train cars available to accommodate the current demand.

I can just imagine the chaos that would ensue if the government chose to subsidize travelers by lowering beer prices to €,50 per half liter, or capping hotel room rates at €10/double, or selling rolling suitcases for $3 a piece...

I did find the DB app quite easy to use. Granted Russ helped me understand it prior to my arrival, so I had that leg up. It took me a bit of trial and error to understand London's subway app as well, but it also worked very well.

While we never ended up doing the KD Rhine Boat tour, as an english speaking / writing person, I did find their pamphlet to be confusing. Lots of times a tourist is making quick decisions to fit within whatever timeframe the day throws at you. Betweent readin thhe DB app, the common train delays,and trying to understand the KD pamphlet, I just didn't have any real assurance that after taking the train all the way to Bingen Germany if the ferry would even be operating around the time I arrived. Maybe that also have an app, I never checked.

We just sort of took what the towns, weather, trains and long meals gave us.... that'd be my one piece of advice for those visiting the Middle Rhine...don't rush through meals... it creates unnecessary stress. Just enjoy each experience and then move on when you are ready to move on...if your itinerary breaks down, don't fret. Just pck it up the next day! Restaurant service is different than in the states...they take a bit to get to your table, and they won't bring the bill unless you ask for it... other than that, they all did a great job of putting out very consistent, very good food...and even though I own a small vineyard myself, I could not fathom that vinifera was grown on such steep hillsides... producing excellent, really great Riseling and Pinot, just excellent. I am trying hard to find someone in Boppard / Oberwesel who will ship me a case or two l... almost impossible to find Boppard / Oberwesel wine in the US. Such a shame!

I really hope when we return that we can stay a couple weeks to try out the hiking and biking, because it would seem to be one of the most fulfilling ways to enjoy the Middle Rhine.

they take a bit to get to your table

A typical American misunderstanding ;). Except for upscale restaurants, you just walk in and take a table - anyone that doesn't say "reserved" on it. If you stop at the door and wait, the waiter/ress thinks you're undecided about whether you want to eat there or not.

Shame you didn't get to try the Rhein-gau wines from the right side of the Rhein. I usually recommend that people go to Rüdesheim to the RheinWein Welt to do wine tasting or to Eberbach Monastery by Eltville. Both are lovely towns to stay in and Rüdesheim has a fun chair lift, including a walk to a 2nd one that will take you down into Assmanshausen where they make red wines.

Maybe next time.

I really hope when we return that we can stay a couple weeks to try out the hiking and biking, because it would seem to be one of the most fulfilling ways to enjoy the Middle Rhine.

On the Rhine, I've found hiking much more enjoyable than the biking, which is a bit too impacted by railway, auto, and barge traffic. The MOSEL, OTOH, tends to be a more bucolic experience for biking and good for hiking as well. Wine is big here too. If you have a week or longer in the area, there'd be time to visit both river valleys.

Mosel towns: https://www.mosel-inside.de/en/travel-guide/mosel-villages.html

Cochem: https://mediaim.expedia.com/destination/1/eae23ca94941604fa434ca34fbbbd86e.jpg

Traben-Trarbach: https://www.unterwelt-ausflug.de/home-en.htm

The Planwagenfahrt is typically a German-language event with a vineyard visit/talk, lunch and wine. But I have seen programs in English by arrangement as well. The Mosel gets US tourists but also lots of Brits and Dutch visitors who use English in Germany as well... so maybe tourist information offices in Cochem or Traben-Trarbach could inform you of your options if this interests you.

The cruise between Traben-Trarbach and Bernkastel is a nice one.