Amsterdam to Frankfurt - three nights

When, how many in your group, ages, please?

Last week in June. Family of four: Two adults, two teens (13 & 17)

Train? Car? Provide desired departure date and time from A'dam if you want train help.

For the final travel leg to FRA, your desired arrival date and time is needed.

I heartily recommend a final afternoon/evening/night in MAINZ, where you'd be 20-25 minutes from FRA airport by direct train.

You might want to visit Cologne on the way south, but it would not be a good base for seeing Eltz (or my preference, especially for an abbreviated visit like yours, MARKSBURG, which is near Koblenz... getting to and from Eltz does eat up some time.) Nor is Cologne handy for doing the usual Rhine-area activities (river cruise, chairlift rides, hiking/walking.) I would be looking at apartments in the Rhine towns just south of Koblenz... Boppard, Spay, Rhens, St. Goar, Braubach, Osterspai, Kamp-Bornhofen.

Month of year? Time of flight home? Russ has given superb advice. I'll just add that a rich stop like Cologne can be good for a poor planner! With many things to do on foot, and Düsseldorf nearby, it's nice on a short itinerary. The deciding factor is a word from your post ... "castle". For that, you need Russ' itinerary.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/germany/can-i-see-enough-of-cologne

What do you want to see in Cologne? I would just make a couple of hour stop and see the cathdral - right next to the train station - and continue on to a town between Koblenz and Bacharach, staying there for the 3 nights.

If you stay in Boppard, your lodging will provide you with a VRM pass to freely travel in the region on local trains and busses, including to Burg Eltz. Or take a cruise on the Rhine (not included with the VRM, but your pass should get you a 20 discount).

As Sam says, the VRM Guest Ticket is a valuable freebie. And a good reason to search Boppard first for lodging. Pent-up demand for travel will likely mean heavy demand in late June for rooms - and it's tougher for 4 - so be prepared to look in the other towns I listed as well.

The Guest Ticket IS AVAILABLE in other towns as well, but only at "participating" lodging establishments. Very few places, in other words.

The VRM Guest Ticket, should you end up with one, is not valid beyond Oberwesel to the south. You will probably want to catch a train to Bingen for a Rhine Cruise... and since Bingen is south of Oberwesel, you'd need an Oberwesel > Bingen train ticket on top of the Guest Ticket, unfortunately. But fortunately, that same train ticket will allow you to make a stop in BACHARACH, on the way to Bingen, to take in all the nice buildings there. AND... that ticket WILL get you a 20% cruise discount with KD cruises.

I am not aware of a cruise discount for showing a VRM Guest Ticket. But maybe I'm underinformed.

Marksburg looks terrific. A little concerned with being able to get on a tour. What are our chances? Looks like we can't buy tickets in advance and we'd need an english-speaking tour.

I don't think there is a discount if you have the VRM guest ticket, although I know KD offers some other discounts, including one for a family of 4 (2 adults/2 kids) that might be applicable. https://www.k-d.com/en/faq

jgroach, if you do decide to stay in Boppard, I can recommend the Bellevue Rheinhotel. It's in a wonderful location - it sits right on the water and is a stone's throw from the KD ferry dock. The service and rooms were wonderful, and their restaurant is quite good also. https://www.bellevue-boppard.de/en/

@Russ & @Mardee
So I'm looking at the K-D cruise site and I'm a little uncertain how it works. There's a Castles Tour...but it's not clear if this is just a boat ride past them or if we can get on and off to tour castles we see. For example...if we stayed in Koblenz and cruised down to, say, Bacharach...could we get off in Braubach, take a Marksburg tour, get back on and resume the cruise? ON the description, it says:

Overview Castle Cruise
01.04. - 22.10.2023
Tours between Koblenz & Mainz
19 Stops for joining or leaving

jgroach, you need to go to the KD website and download the boat schedule (making sure it covers the dates you want to use it. There are usually two "seasons" a year, before they shut down for the winter.

The fact is that the boats are not frequent enough to compare them to a "city bus line." I have no personal idea of what the term "castle tour" means, but many people (I mean, including the two in my party ... ) just look at the many exteriors, from the boat, in motion. We also had lunch and wine on the boat.

Depending on your needs, you may want to take a downstream (northbound) boat to reduce total river time, but when you have a hotel right on the Middle Rhine, that's not usually a vital decision. You do NOT want to ride the boat anywhere other than the Scenic Middle Rhine, which is, roughly, from Bingen to Boppard. That means don't get on in Koblenz. The local trains (tickets sold by machines in unattended stations, have cash available for failed CC PIN numbers ....) are ten times faster than the boat. Using two transit phases actually makes your day MORE efficient. This is also how you deal with returning to a rented car, if you have one.

I really enjoyed staying in Boppard, at the hotel Bellevue. It's a grand hotel right on the river front, and even has a pool and sauna. I thought they also managed a few apartments next door.
Definitely go up on the chair lift!
If you only have time for one castle, I'd do Berg Elz. I think it's fascinating that the same family has been living there for hundreds of years. I toured that pre-COVID.
I wasn't as thrilled with Marksburg as much as others here. It's a tough, half- hour climb up, unless locals are offering car rides up. We were a bit off-season, April, 2022, so did the German tour with an English pamphlet, which was obviously lacking. Wish we had done Rheinfels ruins instead.
Just one opinion.
Have a great trip.

So I've been thinking I might end up renting a car during our time in Germany now.

So here's a sketch idea for us:
6/26 - AMS to Koblenz train, walk the town a bit, cable car to fortress
6/27 - car, castle day trip to Eltz w/ some sightseeing
6/28 - drive down Rhine to Boppard visit for a few hours, drive to Mainz w/ sightseeing, stay in Mainz
6/29 - fly out that morning

Add in a few hours for meals, resting, etc.
I'm hesitant to put too much into each day as I expect us to be doing a lot of walking and will have already done quite a bit in AMS. Not 100% on the car, but I like the idea of being able to stop off places along the way.

So go ahead...tell me what's a terrible idea about my tentative plan...or if there is a better idea you might have. I like the idea of a day cruise, but also don't just want to be on a boat half the day, passing stuff we might want to be able to stop and visit.

All 3 castle experiences are different and worthwhile. Marksburg's website is clear about getting a tour in English:

There are guided tours in English every day at 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. (only
in the summer season; slight changes at short notice are possible).

A Rhine Cruise takes only about 90 minutes if you do it right. It is not the Castle Cruise that you want. It's the Loreley Cruise.

It is NOT EASY for a novice to devise a workable plan for fitting in what you wish to see and do on the Rhine. But it certainly can be done with some help. Don't give up the cruise - or lock yourself into driving - just yet.

Below is a one-day plan for 6/27 starting and ending in Boppard which is pretty relaxed. It combines a cruise with an English tour of Marksburg. Marksburg, unlike the fancier Eltz, strikes an especially MEDIEVAL tone. The day could be re-arranged for a later start (with a 4 pm tour of Marksburg) if you wish.

Tue 6/27:

• Train from Boppard to Bingen Rhein Stadt station (8:15 - 8:56) + easy 5 min. walk to dock
• Cruise (9:15) to St. Goarshausen (10:45) - the BEST cruise leg - and make an easy 5-10 min. walk to St. Goarshausen train station.
• Train to Braubach (11:31 - 11:52) + 25-30-min. uphill walk to Marksburg castle. OR TAKE A TAXI. OR... pre-book a shuttle ride with the Marksburg choo-choo; the Marksburg website has this information:

https://www.marksburg.de/en/visitor-information/directions.html#/

• Get your tickets and have lunch on the Marksburg terrace if you like, do the tour.

• Walk or shuttle/taxi back down.

• Eating AFTER your tour? Braubach's old town zone is gorgeous and has some nice food/drink venues.
  https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4143/4751924826_98980aa49f_o.jpg

• A Tuesday visit means the zum Goldenen Schlüssel will be open (closed W & Th, good traditional German food) but there are other places in town as well.

• Return by train to Boppard via Koblenz at your leisure, trains departing every hour or better. Since you'll likely be back down from the Marksburg tour at 13:30 - 14:00, there is time to do some sightseeing in Koblenz on the way back to Boppard - as long as you have the energy for it.

RANDOM COMMENTS:

• Eltz and Marksburg are both great to visit. Do both.

• Eltz combines well with a visit to Cochem or time in Boppard. Public transport from Boppard to both places is doable and free of charge. Maybe do this on the 28th.

• Burg Eltz promises a flyer in English but does NOT specifically promise an English-language tour on its website. Marksburg promises both options (English at 1 and 4 pm.)

• The walk up to both Eltz and Marksburg depends on circumstances (fitness, heat/humidity, rain, trail condition.) I'm 70 and under good on-the-ground circumstances I don't have trouble with either the walk to Eltz from Moselkern (1 hr. +) or with Marksburg (moderately challenging, a little puffing on the way up.) But I would opt for a ride if the weather is hot/humid.

• Make time for the chairlift ride in Boppard (on the 26th?)

• St. Goar is only 15 minutes from Boppard by train - so visit Rheinfels Castle there if you can work it in on the 29th AND/OR visit Bacharach (10 minutes further south.)

OK, I see now that you don't have a 6/29 option for sightseeing. Drop that day.

Here's a doable adjustment to my 6/28 outline:

• Check out of Boppard hotel
• Train + bus to Burg Eltz, but drop bags at Koblenz station on the way.
• Bus + train to Cochem
• Train Cochem > Koblenz (fetch bags ) + train > Mainz

I'm not seeing the KD times from Bingen you are listing for the online ticket purchases. It's only showing a regular cruise from 16:30 to 18:15 to Goarshausen. Is this just something we would have to buy there or would we need to buy online?

EDIT: nevermind. I was looking at the wrong Loreley cruise. Thanks. Great suggestions.

Note: It would be possible after arrival on 6/26, after checking into your Boppard hotel, to catch a train south for time either in Bacharach or St. Goar (Rheinfels.) Initially I left that day just to Boppard on the grounds that you wanted things somewhat relaxed.

Question about the luggage lockers at Koblenz train station:
What's the likelihood of being able to find space and how much space do they have? I hate to think of counting on being able to check out and travel only to find out there is no space available to store bags/luggage. Are there other options for this?

The number and measures of lockers can be found here.

"I hate to think of counting on being able to check out and travel only to find out there is no space available to store bags/luggage. Are there other options for this?"

The other clear option is to leave your bags at your Boppard hotel's front desk that morning when you check out.

When you head to Mainz later that same day, the southbound train from Koblenz will stop in Boppard, where you could step off to retrieve your bags, then return to Boppard station for the next southbound train.

Not sure what time you'll be in Koblenz, exactly... Let's just say you've left Cochem on the 17:18 train and arrived in Koblenz at 17:56....

• Lv Koblenz 18:03 from Platform #1 on the southbound RE train; arrive Boppard 18:14.
• Fetch bags, grab a bite to eat or refreshments?
• Lv Boppard 19:16 on the direct RE train to Mainz; arrive 20:08.

Hey @Russ...just figured I would give you an update on how it went for us.
First, I kinda effed up the reservations. I had made one reservation in Koblenz, and also reserved an AirBNB in Boppard, thinking to cancel the Koblenz place closer to trip time. Apparently I didn't read the fine print, though, and missed the deadline to cancel the Koblenz place without penalty, so in order to save $450 I canceled the Boppard place. Thinking about it, it ended up working easier for us with the train travel.

So we go to Koblenz late Monday afternoon after spending a few hours in Cologne (did the cathedral and the chocolate museum). It was a bit of a walk with luggage to the place, but it's a nice small town, so it wasn't really bad at all. The place was an apartment and it was actually really nice, so we were all pretty happy with it.

Tuesday, we basically did the scenario you suggested. Took an early train to Bingen, hopped the boat for the 90 minute ride to St Goarschausen, then got a train up to Braubach with about 45 minutes to walk up to the castle and grab a small meal. It was actually a bit more rushed than I really wanted, but we had a good time. To be honest, I'm glad we did the cruise, but I don't think I would do it again. I imagined something a little more engaging, I guess. The top deck was too full for us to get a spot, so we ended up grabbing a table below right at the front. Good view, but I suppose a little underwhelming. The castle, on the other hand, was a great time. The tour guide was a nice older lady and she had a pretty good personality and sense of humor. We all enjoyed Marksburg and actually ranked it higher than our tour of Muidersloot in Amsterdam.

From there we grabbed a train back to Koblenz, explored the town a bit, had some dinner then grabbed a gelato dessert at a really great place near our apartment.

The next day we decided just to head straight down to Frankfurt, go to the hotel and then explore the "old town" area without having to worry about our baggage. We all were pretty much toast by the last day, so this was a good way to end our time in Germany.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I do feel like a finally started getting a good feel for the train system. I'm pretty sure I messed up at least one or two times when buying tickets, but I don't think it ended up costing me too much in the end. I probably could have streamlined some of the ticketing, but I figure when one is not 100% certain about the day's plans, it can be difficult to do that efficiently.

Thanks for posting about your trip experience, jgr.

To be honest, I'm glad we did the cruise, but I don't think I would do
it again. I imagined something a little more engaging, I guess... The
castle, on the other hand, was a great time.... We all enjoyed
Marksburg and actually ranked it higher than our tour of Muidersloot
in Amsterdam.

I share those same impressions. Glad to hear you fit in both a cruise and Marksburg. The cruise to St. Goar is certainly enjoyable and worthwhile. But more rewarding for short visits like yours is some real boots-on-the-ground time, just as you indicate. Too many who are looking for a "Rhine quickie" get swayed by Rick's excessive praise for the Rhine cruise, focus only on that, and end up shortchanging their experience. Marksburg - and Braubach, the snug little old-world town on the riverbank just beneath it (see 3-pages of photos here) - would IMHO be a better choice for someone who has time for only one or the other.

If you're in the area again, I hope you'll find your way to Boppard for the chairlift ride to Gedeonseck, where you'll enjoy the stunning views of the river valley that you were hoping for on your cruise.