Late regional train connecting to ICE train on D-Ticket

So how would that work if a conductor comes and check my ticket?

You are free to take any regional train before your discounted ICE train, so it is no problem if the conductor checks your ticket between Munich Pasing and Munich Hbf. In German, this principle is called "Vor und Nachlauf"

I was a little confused about the whole idea at first, but now I see that this protects you if your regional train from G-P is late, you will then be free to take the next ICE to Wuerzburg, since you have a valid regional connecting ticket to Munich Hbf.

I deleted my previous post. I think I missed the thrust of your post and also misread the DB schedule.

Will get back to you.

You want to ride the 8:07 - 11:52 as scheduled, right? And you want to be able to ride a LATER ICE train from Munich in case your first train is late, right? Bought from GaPa, this journey is currently priced at €78.99.

The original idea was to buy it from München-Pasing, but indeed, I am struggling as well to pull up the 9:46 departure from the Pasing station. The next-closest station which might reduce the cost of this same journey ticket to €67.99 and is available is TUTZING (8:07 from GaPa, stop in Tutzing 8:59, 9:00 departure from Tutzing; you stay on the train to Munich.) Once at Munich Hbf, you have a 17-minute layover prior to the ICE departure at 9:46.

My take... If this were my trip, I would probably just use my D-Ticket for the entire trip - at €0.00 additional cost - and spend the extra hour + using the regional trains - saving €79 (or €68) each. 8:07 - 13:16, one change at Munich Hbf. This strategy also provides flexibility to leave earlier or later on ANY regional train journey you choose.

Thank you @Sam and @Russ. You both are always so helpful.

but now I see that this protects you if your regional train from G-P is late, you will then be free to take the next ICE to Wuerzburg, since you have a valid regional connecting ticket to Munich Hbf.

Yes but that is only if you are coming from the same regional train on the RE+ICE ticket. The problem is, I can't seem to get the same regional train in combination with the ICE ticket. So if my regional train is late (the one i use with the Dticket), my ICE ticket won't be covered as its not the same regional train on the RE+ICE ticket.

@Russ did I understand your strategy of this buy from last stop on the Dticket correctly? I can't simply just combine the ICE ticket with ANY regional train and expect my ICE ticket to be protected from delays, it has to be the same one as the one I'm taking using my Dticket right?

I would probably just use my D-Ticket for the entire trip - at €0.00 additional cost - and spend the extra hour + using the regional trains

This is also a good suggestion but I'm starting to think I should skip Wuerzburg altogether. I only have time for 2 days in Wuerzburg, one which I'm planning to go to Bamberg. If I spend 5+ hours on the train, that really doesn't make much sense.

Originally i was planning to do GaPa - Wuerzburg - Frankfurt - Koblenz. Can I please get some suggestions on where I can replace Wuerzburg with that has a more logical travelling route (with not too many train changes). I don't necessarily have to go to Frankfurt either, it was really just to break the trip on route to Koblenz. I have four days to fill between GaPa and Koblenz.

Yes but that is only if you are coming from the same regional train on the RE+ICE ticket.

No, You can take ANY regional train that connects to the ICE train, not just the one named on the ticket. If it is a legal connection, and a train with a 17 minute connection time at Munich Hbf would certainly be a legal connection, you are good.

Vor und Nachlauf means that on any combination of regional trains (S, RB, RE, IRE) and long distance trains (IC, ICE), you are only restricted by the long distance train, You are free to take any regional train before, and/or any regional train afterward to complete the ticketed journey that day.

No, You can take ANY regional train that connects to the ICE train, not just the one named on the ticket

In theory yes, but in the context of coverage for delays, I’m only covered if the actual RE train on my ticket is delayed.

So if there are two RE trains, one at 9:30 and the other at 9:45, and the one on my ticket is 9:45 connecting to the ICE train at 10:00. If I take the 9:30 and it breaks down and I miss the 10:00 ICE train, I essentially forfeited my ticket as the 9:45 one got there in time.

So hence if I have understood @Russ’s strategy correctly to minimise the cost of the ticket because I have the dticket, he said to buy from the station before the ICE ticket, so in essence I’ll still be covered if the RE train was late. The RE leg will be using the Dticket.

I hope I’m making sense !

Is 17min considered plenty of time to transfer at the big Munich station? I will have luggage, and also need to find my bearings so need a bit more time.

There will be no regional trains on your ticket. The ticket will only mention the long distance trains. Regional tickets are not train specific.

Tickets are for a route. So your ticket mentions an origin and destination, and date of validity.
Et. Garmisch Partenkirchen to Worzburg 27.12.2025, via M
Then in addition the ticket lists the train bindings. But there only the long distance trains will be listed.

The best thing to do is either just book the whole stretch, or build in a buffer.

When I query the new ticket between München-Pasing and Würzburg starting from 9:10am - screenshot #3 - the first train it gives me is München-Pasing at 9:28 - screenshot #4. This isn't the same regional train as the one I queried in my Gapa to Würzburg search - which should start at München-Pasing at 9:19.

DB navigator always shows the shortest possible transfer time.

You can change that this way:

1. select the exact departure time from Pasing: 9:19

2. DB will show yo a connection involving an West Bahn train, dep. 9:28 (sillily, since you cannot use that train with a DB ticket)

3. Click on details > increase transfer time (in München Hbf) > earlier arrival at stop

Now your train from Garmisch, dep. Pasing 9:19 will show up.

@Russ did I understand your strategy of this buy from last stop on the Dticket correctly? I can't simply just combine the ICE ticket with ANY regional train and expect my ICE ticket to be protected from delays, it has to be the same one as the one I'm taking using my Dticket right?

(For GaPa > W'burg...) you can RIDE any regional train you wish for the München-Pasing > Munich Hbf segment that you tried to ticket. But neither you nor I were actually able to TICKET that segment as one leg of the two-leg München-Pasing > Würzburg ticket. If München-Pasing or some other specific station on the approach route to München Hbf is not printed on your ticket... without a "FROM" station in other words... you do not have a ticket that specifies a rEgional train leg that connects to the ICE train leg... and without that connection, your ticket will not permit the use of a later ICE train to Würzburg in case the regional train arriving in Munich is late.

From TUTZING (the stop prior to M-Pasing) the two-leg ticket to Würzburg IS AVAILABLE.

I have tried the strategy FRITZ suggests (manually adding/subtracting minutes from the stopover time) without success. Maybe you can make it work.

Thank you everyone. It makes it clearer now.

Now your train from Garmisch, dep. Pasing 9:19 will show up.

Ah it does too! I'm not sure how you figured that glitch out :D but thats great, thanks! Now i know what to do when listings go missing which I've seen a few times.

There will be no regional trains on your ticket. The ticket will only mention the long distance trains. Regional tickets are not train specific.

I see, so the ticket won't dictate which regional train I ticketed, just that I'm coming from a station BEFORE the start of the ICE starting point. As long as I can prove to the conductor the previous train was late, that should suffice.

I have tried the strategy FRITZ suggests (manually adding/subtracting minutes from the stopover time) without success. Maybe you can make it work.

This actually worked for me. So if It really was running late, and i ticketed from Pasing to Würzburg, this should qualify for a later ICE train?
https://imgur.com/a/xZ0J2Ko

Are there rules on how much transfer time I must buffer for inorder to qualify for taking a later ICE train if the previous train was running late? This specific example is 17min. Is this adequate time given Munich is a big station and I will have luggage, and also need to find my bearings ?

(1) This actually worked for me. So if It really was running late, and i ticketed from Pasing to Würzburg, this should qualify for a later ICE train?

(2) Are there rules on how much transfer time I must buffer for inorder to qualify for taking a later ICE train if the previous train was running late? This specific example is 17min. Is this adequate time given Munich is a big station and I will have luggage, and also need to find my bearings ?

(1) Yes. Although a local train is not specified on your ticket *), it will still appear as a recommendation on the attached itinerary (Reiseplan"). This means you have both a single “contract of carriage” for the journey (i.e., one ticket rather than two separate tickets) and documentation showing that you intended to use this specific local train. This is the usual strategy I often use, and I don't know of anyone who has had a problem with it. Besides, nothing can happen to you, even if a stupid and unfriendly conductor (thankfully, these are rare) on the connecting train should disagree. S/he cannot demand money from you, but only issue a demand of a "Fahrpreisnacherhebung" (i.e. the standard fare + a fine of €60, to be paid via PayPal or bank transfer) which you can then contest with the DB (or, in your case as a non-EU citizen, simply throw in the trash).

(2) Trains from Garmisch arrive at Starnberg Annex Station (= main station, tracks 27-36). The defined standard transfer time from there into the main hall is 10 minutes. But believe me, you can easily do it in 5-7 minutes (I'm taking the same way about once a week). And as soon as your actual transfer time is less than 10 minutes due to a delay of the RE from Pasing, your train binding to ICE 722is lifted.

You can find the track your train is departing from in advance in the DB Navigator app; it will also be displayed on the large overhead display in the main hall.

*) Your ticket will show a code like this:

MP NV MH ICE722 NWH

(MP = Munich Pasing, NV = Nahverkehr, MH = Munich main station, NWH = Würzburg).

While NV means that you are free to take any any RE, RB oder S-Bahn from Pasing to the main station (there is one roughly every 3-5 minutes), ICE722 specifies that you have to take exactly that ICE. But that specification is lifted as soon as your previous train was late.

Well, glad to hear you sorted that out with Fritz's help. I finally did as well. Musta left one of the other variables I'd been messing with on active while trying to locate that RB for ticketing.

Did you also buy a reservation on the ICE? You can do so now if you wish. It doesn't cost much. I think the ticket price alone would have steered me to using the D-Ticket on that route. If the point of the ICEs is to save time, you have to reduce that theoretical time by 15 minutes or so as a rule of thumb - they're late more than 50% of the time. And as I said, I'm cheap. If it costs me more than two beers to save an hour's time, I'm flashing my D-Ticket on the regional train, heh.

Best wishes for a good journey. If Würzburg's weather is mild, as it is in March on occasion, you might like the Goldene Gans Biergarten, right on the bank of the River Main...

"As long as I can prove to the conductor the previous train was late, that should suffice"

The problem may be that if you could have taken other trains to be on time for your ICE you will still have an issue...

So suppose buy a ticket München Pasing - Wurzburg with the intention to already board the train in Garmisch and it is delayed sufficiently an you miss your connection. You board an later ICE and the conductor comes and ask you why you are on the wrong train.
You say: the 9:19 form München Pasing was late. The conductor then says: why didn't you take the 9:27 then?

There are lots of trains between Pasing and Hbf, and only in case of a serious disruption that stops traffic for at least half an hour would you be able to make a case that you are entitled to take the next ICE.

That you do not have any protected connections when combining DT and ICE is a feature, not a bug. DT is for regional travel only. If you want to travel long distance, and want protected connections you will have to book the whole trip.

You say: the 9:19 form München Pasing was late. The conductor then says: why didn't you take the 9:27 then?

Quite simple. The connection at 9:28 mentioned by you involves a Westbahn train, which you are not allowed to use with a DB ticket, so tht's out of the question. And DB Navigator does not show any train after 9:19 that guarantees the minimum transfer time in München Hbf. And they cannot force you to travel earlier, e.g. with an S-Bahn. In short, if DB gives you a connection, it has to guarantee it. If necessary, by releasing a train specific ticket for another train (which does not necessarily have to be the next one!).

Ok. The 9:23 or the 00:29 then.
The point is that there are so many trains from Pasing to Hbf that your story will not hold. Germans, when they want to go from Pasing to Hbf just go to the station and hop on the next train to Hb, without worrying about which train in particular they are taking...

If you want to travel long distance, and want protected connections you will have to book the whole trip.

Initially I was just going to buy the Munich to Würzburg ICE train leg. Why pay extra EUR10-20 if the D-ticket covers my journey to Munich? That's until i read some threads including the one in my OP saying that I should ticket to include the non-ICE leg as well as insurance for the ICE train if the previous train was late. It sounds logical. But based on what @WengenK is saying, this is not very clear cut.

But even if i ticketed from GaPa to Würzburg instead of Pasing to Würzburg, wouldn't I run into the same issue? The GaPa-Munich train is also a regional (in fact the EXACT SAME train as if i was to take from Pasing), couldn't they also argue why I didn't take an earlier train? You say to ticket the whole trip, but they don't know where I started my journey, it could have been even further out from GaPa (or closer to Munich HBF), so I get what @Russ suggested in the OP thread when he says to ticket from the stop before the starting point of the ICE train for the reason of price - the closer to the starting point of the ICE train, the cheaper the ticket. If ticketing from GaPa for a few extra euros will provide coverage, I'm happy to do that, but I can't see why they won't argue the same about taking an earlier train - there is always an earlier train!

Perhaps I've missed some point?

that guarantees the minimum transfer time in München Hbf.

What is the mandated minimum transfer time? if there is one, then this missed connection coverage should be clear cut. Provided I was on a late train that meets this transfer time (when it isn't late), then it should assume coverage on the connecting train.

Apologies, i just realised that i missed Russ's and Fritz's reply above earlier.

@Fritz, thank you for the explanation, it puts things into perspective. Thanks on the transfer timing as well.

When i looked at the history of the punctuality of RB6 on zugfinder, its not great, it has an average 16 min lateness in the month of Dec, so 17 min transfer may not be enough even though its a proposed connection by DB, doesn't really inspire much confidence. If the ICE was late as well like Russ says, then perhaps I have a chance of connecting :D. Maybe I should just ticket the entire journey like @WengenK suggested if that guarantees me coverage, I don't want to reason with the conductor where I don't know the rules over a few euros if I'm honest.

@Russ,

I think the ticket price alone would have steered me to using the D-Ticket on that route.

I get that, its not cheap, considering the cheapest can be under EUR20. It's a valid choice. I just want to keep my options open. I may not take that train specifically so it may push me down the price bracket if i select another timeslot. With all things considered, like luggage and number of transfers, i will have to weigh up what makes sense.

With the reservation, how come there are two trains on the seat map? There is one with carriages 31-39 and one with 21-29. Does it mean this train will split in the journey?

seat map - https://imgur.com/a/jd9t0j7

Does a ticket purchase have a seat assignment automatically if i don't opt for choosing my own seat? Can i purchase the ticket first and then add on a seat assignment later? Is it necessary to choose a seat on this route?

Thank you for the biergarten recommendation !

But even if i ticketed from GaPa to Würzburg instead of Pasing to
Würzburg, wouldn't I run into the same issue? The GaPa-Munich train is
also a regional (in fact the EXACT SAME train as if i was to take from
Pasing), couldn't they also argue why I didn't take an earlier train?

You are not expected to be able to travel back in time.

If you book Garmisch Partentkirchen - Wurzburg, with the intention to that the ICE 722 you will have ticket that show this route:
VIA: GMP NV MH ICE 722 NWH
Now the RB6 departing at 8:05 is the logical train to take to reach that ICE, so if that train is sufficiently delayed you will be able to hop on the next train without issues. The conductor can look up that indeed that train was late

However if you book from Munchen Pasing your ticket will show:

VIA: MP NV MH ICE 722 NWH.

And there the issue is that if you want to claim that you missed ICE 722 because RB6 was late the conductor will say "why did you not take the S6, or the S8, or the S3... There are 5 later trains that you could have taken from Pasing that would all have allowed you to get at HB on time for the ICE 722.
Since your ticket allows you to take any train you want between Pasing and HB you are expected to just do that, take whatever is moving at the time you are traveling.

So with that ticket you cannot claim a delayed RB6 as an excuse for being permitted to take the next train. Unless there is a disruption and there is nothing at all moving between Pasing and HB.

Since your ticket allows you to take any train you want between Pasing and HB you are expected to just do that, take whatever is moving at the time you are traveling.

Okay i understand and your reasoning is valid because its a close stop. I also understand Fritz point in that since the connection for that RB train was proposed by the trip planner and therefore deemed a valid connection, so they should also honour the delayed connection because thats how I was ticketed. Locals may understand that regional trains are flexible but as a tourist, i may not know that information. And maybe I have lots of luggage and really running across the platforms to get the next Parsing train isn't ideal.

But I take your point, i'm at the conductor's mercy.

If I do ticket from Gapa, do i still have to meet this at least 20 min late rule (link below)? Say the regional was 15 mins late (and the transfer time is 17 mins), and I couldn't make it to the ICE train in time, would I be covered? If so, would the app tell me I can take any train or do i have to hunt down the conductor to get something in writing?

https://int.bahn.de/en/booking-information/passenger-rights/legal-regulations. --> under the 3rd point continuing the journey with a different train, has a 20 min rule.

Ok. The 9:23 or the 00:29 then.
The point is that there are so many trains from Pasing to Hbf that your story will not hold. Germans, when they want to go from Pasing to Hbf just go to the station and hop on the next train to Hb, without worrying about which train in particular they are taking...

True, but as someone who changes trains in Pasing very frequently, I'd like to stress two other aspects.

Firstly, the practical aspect: Let's say you're standing on platform 3 at 9:18 a.m. and you will be informed (as usual, at very short notice) that the RB6 is delayed: With luggage, you propably won't make it to platform 6 for the 9:23 a.m. S-Bahn in five minutes. The platforms in Pasing are always crowded and you can't run but have to go with the flow.

Secondly, the legal aspect: in the event of a train delay or cancellation, DB must allow you the same transfer time to catch an alternative train as you would need for a normal transfer, plus a reasonable amount of time to reorient yourself. They no longer publish the standard transfer times (so as not to have to admit that they have tacitly extended them due to their notorious unpunctuality), but you can easily determine them yourself by looking at transfer connections from the feeder lines (Augsburg/Buchloe/Garmisch) to an S-Bahn station between Pasing and the main station, e.g. Munich-Laim. For a transfer from the RB6 from Garmisch, arriving at Pasing at 9:19, to the S4 to Laim, they allow 8 minutes (5 min for same platform transfers). Add 2-3 minutes for orientation and you'll get the S-Bahn at 9:29. But that's useless, because you can't make the transfer from the S-Bahn to the ICE to Würzburg in 7 minutes at the main station.
So the DB cannot refer you to one of those S-Bahn trains.

I will be changing trains in Pasing again tomorrow (also from track 3 to track 5, coming from Buchloe) and will test how long it takes at a slow pace (as if carrying a lot of luggage).

and you will be informed (as usual, at very short notice)

Plus this is assuming they will announce in English as well :D

I think even with your slow paced test run, you still need to add a bit of buffer for tourists. Locals will have an idea of the orientation and can read the signs and understand the language. This is very different for a tourist, and that's assuming they even register from the announcement that the train is delayed.

With the reservation, how come there are two trains on the seat map?

It's that inexplicable kind of love. Lok-liebe, but within the same species:

https://www.hochgeschwindigkeitszuege.com/deutschland/fotos-deutschland/ice-2-winterhausen-04-gr.jpg

Any seat reservation for this Munich > Würzburg journey will fend off any concerns that YOUR train will be going somewhere other than Würzburg!

By the way... are you quite certain that Würzburg is where you wish to go? Just thought I'd ask. There are alternatives. And is it the case that you are heading to FRA the following morning to catch a flight? I've lost track of your specific plans. With an overnight stop, I usually book just one ticket that covers both travel legs... using the "stopover" feature.

By the way... are you quite certain that Würzburg is where you wish to go? Just thought I'd ask. There are alternatives. I've lost track of your specific plans. With an overnight stop, I usually book just one ticket that covers both travel legs... using the "stopover" feature.

I was planning to do GaPa - Würzburg (2 days) - Frankfurt (2 days) - Koblenz. But now I'm reconsidering to be honest. The only reason I wanted to do Würzburg was to use as a base for Rothenburg. But I think travelling that route is kind of cumbersome and not the best use of time. It's tricky because between GaPa and Koblenz, I didn't really find many options to break the trip without many, many train changes. I did want to do Gengenbach intially but it seems too out of the way so it went into the too hard basket lol.

Now I'm thinking whether Augsburg and Mainz are better choices to swap out Würzburg and Frankfurt. But even with Augsburg and Mainz, the travelling doesn't get any easier so they are quite comparable.

Which set do you think is more worthwhile and why?

1 - Würzburg, Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Frankfurt
or
2 - Augsburg and Mainz

If there was one stepping stone stop between GaPa and Koblenz, that would be ideal.

if you want a mid-way stop on the way to Koblenz, I wouldn't see that as Mainz. They are nearly adjacent.

The #1-or-#2 decision you offer shouldn't be dependent solely on logistics. Mainz, Augsburg, Frankfurt and Rothenburg are vastly different from each other. Not knowing what you want from this part of the trip, it's hard to advise you.

"If there was one stepping stone stop between GaPa and Koblenz, that would be ideal."

This option is of course possible. If that's ideal, let's just go with that... You have 4 nights. A suggestion that splits your travel time roughly in half...

3/20 GaPa > Stuttgart 8:05 - 11:43, 1 change to ICE in München-Pasing, €37.99... price is from GaPa, no price advantage for ticketing from station just before M-Pasing (Weilheim)

3/24 Stuttgart > Koblenz 7:36 - 10:11, DIRECT ICE to Koblenz, €27.99. (Later DIRECT trains from Stuttgart are possible as well at 9:36 and 11:36)

Stuttgart has lots of sightseeing options. The Mercedes-Benz and Porsche museums are among these.

https://www.stuttgart-tourist.de/en

Also, if you'd rather avoid or book your room outside this major city, there is a VERY attractive SMALL old-world town just 10 train minutes from Stuttgart where you could spend your 4 nights if you prefer to be somewhere that feels a bit more like Rothenburg or Gengenbach: ESSLINGEN, which has excellent train connections into Stuttgart.

https://www.esslingen-info.com/en/discover
https://www.esslingen-info.com/en/discover/sights/top-10-of-the-sights

From Esslingen you could also visit Tübingen (very handsome university town, 45 minutes away by direct train on your D-Ticket.)

https://img.fotocommunity.com/rathaus-tuebingen-0510713e-273d-43ae-b91e-32c909ee8ab4.jpg?height=1080
https://www.unterkuenfte-urlaub.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/fachwerk-tuebingen.jpg
https://visit-tubingen.co.uk/welcome-to-tubingen/

A popular train outing north of Stuttgart is Ludwigsburg:
https://www.schloss-ludwigsburg.de/en/

Slightly further north and also accessible by train is Besigheim, a Neckar-River wine town, where we spent a few hours last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1xqGvinerc

Stuttgart

Thanks for the recommendation @Russ. Much appreciated. I will look into it. Is staying around Stuttgart HBF okay? I've avoided the central station in other cities like Frankfurt and Hamburg because of the "roughness" in the area around the station, but when I skimmed reviews on Stuttgart HBF, there doesn't seem to be any mention of safety issues.

With Esslingen is it Esslingen(Neckar) I should be putting in as a destination? There was about 10 Esslingen options on DB.

3/24 Stuttgart > Koblenz 7:36 - 10:11, DIRECT ICE to Koblenz, €27.99.

Are all ICE trains from Stuttgart to Koblenz on the scenic track? I was initially planning to take the RE scenic train up.

3/20 GaPa > Stuttgart 8:05 - 11:43, 1 change to ICE in München-Pasing

Do i need to take an earlier train in GaPa, Fritz mentioned earlier that Pasing is full of people so getting to another platform quickly may not be easy. Not really keen taking an earlier train given it will add another hour to my travel time. Nevertheless, if I ticketed this, I should be okay taking the next ICE train anyhow right because now it is one ticket?

The area around the main station in Stuttgart is safe enough, but it's also a never-ending building site. We stayed at the Motel One in Bad Cannstatt, which is max. 10 minutes away on local transport and also a lot cheaper for our dates.

Esslingen(Neckar) is your station. Stations in cities with identical names are often distinguished by the rivers or other features where they are located - set off with parentheses.

Frankfurt(Main)
Frankfurt(Oder)
Beilstein(Mosel)
Gutach(Schwarzwaldbahn)

I don't know what's going on in Stuttgart now. A major reconstruction of the station has been underway for a few years. I think they are planning to finish up soon, but likely not before you get there. It's a major rail station which gets you on ICE trains - with SOME, not many, direct ICE and IC trains to Koblenz (like every 2 hours or so.) Last year I merely passed through by train on my way to Ulm. Before that I had never noticed anything that raised my safety concerns. It's a modern post-war city - a busy, vibrant, bustling city with some things to see/do and all the features of a nice city as far as I could tell... not a bad place, but I prefer to base in places like Esslingen.

Are all ICE trains from Stuttgart to Koblenz on the scenic track?

Click on the "journey information" box within any given itinerary. That will show all the stops - and any train stopping in Mainz on the way to Koblenz will travel through the scenic Upper Middle Rhine Valley (the only truly scenic part of this journey.) The direct trains will always use the WEST-side railway via Bingen, Boppard, etc. to Koblenz.

Not all Stuttgart > Koblenz journeys are direct; some force you to change in Mannheim or in Frankfurt, for example - like the 8:05 from Stuttgart, which requires a change to the RB train in Frankfurt to Koblenz; click on "journey information" there and you will NOT see Mainz. But taking this RB train will still travel through the UMRV... along the EAST-side riverbank (with stops in Wiesbaden, Rüdesheim, Braubach.)

https://rheingaulinie.de/files/rheingaulinie/files/Fahrplan/fahrplan.png

See map below with stops on both the west- and east-side railways between Bingen and Koblenz:
http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/walking-hiking.php

Do i need to take an earlier train in GaPa, Fritz mentioned

I don't know. You might consider going with the 9:05 out of GaPa. That one has a scheduled stopover of 35 minutes.

Nevertheless, if I ticketed this, I should be okay taking the next ICE
train anyhow right because now it is one ticket?

Yes, The next ICE from München-Pasing is usable if the first train is excessively late - but you should review the travel details for that next ICE in advance. And if you also have seat reservations for the ICE leg of the 8:05 journey, those will not transfer to the next ICE.

Thanks Russ

Yes, The next ICE from München-Pasing is usable if the first train is excessively late

What defines "excessive". If my transfer is only 17 mins and the train is 5 mins late causing me to miss my connection, is that considered excessive? In my mind 5 mins isn't excessive (nor is 10mins or 15mins), when i think excessive, i'm thinking at least 60 mins. But the fact is I still missed my connection on a single ticket which I wouldn't have if the train was on time. It still sounds like there is still grey area for covering my ICE ticket here? :(

Is this is a better choice, take the 8:07 and arrive at 12:19 Munich HBF instead, this gives me a 50min transfer window. This is cheaper than the 9:05 train you suggested and Munich HBF is a stop earlier than Pasing meaning my chances of suitcase space is probably higher? But adds about 40 mins to my travel time, is this an over-the-top option? Am I just overthinking the original 17 min option? If I'm definitely covered due to delays for the first train, I'll rather take the first one.

Just curious, to change platforms from 30 to 13 at Munich HBF, do i have to go up and down the platforms or are they on the same level? How about changing from platforms 3 to 10 at Munich-Pasing? If up and down is involved, my suitcase will definitely slow me down with the elevator use.

Is this Munich to Stuttgart route a popular route that I should get seat reservations for?

any train stopping in Mainz on the way to Koblenz will travel through the scenic Upper Middle Rhine Valley

Thanks, got it

8:07 and arrive at 12:19 Munich HBF

???

This is what I see: 8:07 - 9:29 GaPa > Munich Hbf

Not sure which train you're looking at after that, but a long layover at Munich Hbf is nothing objectionable IMO - something I do myself - and it allows you to reserve a seat on the next train with some degree of certainty that you'll be on it; whether you need a reservation or not I do not know. I rarely make seat reservations myself. And if you are fine with the final arrival time, then sure, that makes sense.

I will defer to others who may know better than I remember about what it's like getting aroud Munich Hbf and about the cut-off point for late trains triggering an OK to ride the "next" train.

This is what I see: 8:07 - 9:29 GaPa > Munich Hbf

Ah bugger, apologies I meant 8:07 - 12:19 GaPa > Stuttgart with a 50 min layover at Munich HBF.

https://imgur.com/a/mb4S9pO

Thanks so much for your help on this thread @Russ, your suggestions have been most valuable. I do think Stuttgart does make much more sense to connect my journey.

I will defer to others who may know better than I remember about what it's like getting aroud Munich Hbf and about the cut-off point for late trains triggering an OK to ride the "next" train.

Much appreciated if anyone knows.

Thank you all who have provided feedback on this thread, you guys are awesome!

Just curious, to change platforms from 30 to 13 at Munich HBF, do i have to go up and down the platforms or are they on the same level? How about changing from platforms 3 to 10 at Munich-Pasing? If up and down is involved, my suitcase will definitely slow me down with the elevator use.

No, in the Hbf it's all at ground level. Get off at platform 30 and walk a few meters to the right until you reach the main hall. Then turn left and follow the platform (no. 26) along the wall until you reach the main cross-platform (approx. 200 meters). There you will find a large overhead display showing the trains (and an information point in case of emergency).
In Pasing, on the other hand, you have to take the escalator down into the tunnel and then back up to the next platform.

BTW, as mentioned above, I tried the transfer from track 3 to 5 in Pasing yesterday. I didn't have any luggage, but as a substitute, I explained to my wife, who has a slight walking disability, that she would be transformed into a large suitcase for the next few minutes. The platform was very crowded and the distance to the escalator was not much under 100 meters. Nontheless, we made it in a record-breaking 6 minutes.

Thanks Fritz. In that case I think Munich HBF would be a better interchange option for me with suitcase. No going up and down. It’s a busy station but from memory it’s quite spaced out so I think even with crowds it should be okay.

I explained to my wife, who has a slight walking disability, that she would be transformed into a large suitcase for the next few minutes.

Haha. She wouldn’t have been very impressed with that! But please thank your wife for me.

Thank you again for giving me an idea of transit time!

If you buy the IC ticket starting at Munchen-Pasing, it is only valid from Pasing onward. The RB segment before Pasing is not covered by that IC ticket, even if it’s the same physical train you found in the longer search.