Would you let your kids immerse in movies and video games while IN Europe?

Pete, There is only so much one can do to get the attention of a children. Trying to "ban such activities" will only antagonize them and make them dislike/hate the trip. Especially when there is nothing magical like waiting a train that will be crappy or being exhausted at the end of the day.

Peter, the way I dealt with it was to allow it on the plane ride, on VERY long train rides (2+ hours) and for a while just before bedtime. I actually found that it was not a problem with my son (trips when he was 7, 9, 11, and 13). Most of the time he was very interested in his surroundings. Actually now that I'm thinking about it - I do remember him playing as we waited for trains a few times, but I think only if the wait was at least 15/ 30 mins.

Well, since you are asking for a committee vote on how to raise kids.......my idea would be to raise kids the way I wanted to and not ask a committee. I did take a five year old grandkid to China last year. The only electronic thing we had was a phone with which I let him talk to his parents once a week. The rest of the time he had to invent what he wanted to do. He made out fine.

For both of our kids (son now 17yo, daughter now 13yo), we've let them use their electronic devices on past trips, with limitations. Yes on a long car or train ride. But they are required to look up and around when I say "how beautiful!" Yes at the end of the day in the hotel room. Though honestly, we really don't spend much time in our hotel room, so by the time we're back after a late European dinner, it's usually bedtime for all. Definitely not enough time for an entire movie. Rarely any other time. When they were younger, we did let our them occasionally use whatever device when we spent long amounts of time at cafes. Though now that I think about it, our daughter didn't even mention doing that last year in Spain when we lazed at cafes. We've also let them stay in the hotel room and do that stuff when we or they need "alone time," and we parents go to a nearby cafe. I think both sides of the generation gap benefit from that (though our son is now old enough to go out a bit on his own, if he wants that alone time). Something about kids and enjoying scenery. We live in the Rocky Mountains and I'm sure for every time I comment on the beauty around them, they are tuning it out at least half of the time. I think I did the same thing when I was young, on our long family car trips across the U.S. But now I appreciate it!

You seem to be under the impression that video games and movies are somehow only an American phenomena. Europeans play video games and go to the cinema at the same rate we do. In fact some of the most popular video games are designed by European firms, some of my favorite actors/directors are from across the pond, and EuroDisney is the continent's most popular attraction. Let them do what they want during their downtime, by being heavy handed about minor things like this you are headed for the vacation from hell;)

Another one of Brad's rules of thumb: "I don't do/eat/see things on vacation that I can do/eat/see at home." If my kids want to spend their time playing video games, I'd leave them at Grandma's. Why spend thousands to take them to Europe if they aren't going to experience it? Our kids aren't joining us for our upcoming month in Spain primarily because our two oldest wouldn't enjoy it enough to justify the cost. Our youngest wants to come, and was great on our last trip, so we made a deal. She's taking French in school. We'll take her to New York and Quebec next summer. If she actively uses her French during that trip, we'll plan a month trip with her to France the following summer.

I don't see anything wrong with letting them use it while waiting for a train, etc. I would use it, too, in that circumstance (of course, I sometimes get funny/envious looks from kids waiting with me in the doctor's waiting room when I pull out my Nintendo DS). Likewise, I don't see anything wrong with using it at the hotel at night, but I don't spend a lot of time at the hotel, either. I understand your concern, since I often wonder what happens to kids who can't cross town without a cartoon on the SUV's DVR at all times. If we had had that technology available when I was a kid, I would have missed a lot of family bonding time when we sang in the car or played games using signs or license plates along the way. But there's nothing special about a train waiting room or another hotel.

I don't think you have to go all or nothing. Several posters have mentioned setting limits and I think that's the best way to go. Set agreed upon limits that everyone understands before you leave and stick to it. If you ban them completely, I think you'll have a couple of really, really grumpy girls on your hands. Better to meet in the middle so everyone has an enjoyable time. I imagine you want this trip to create fond memories for everyone, so compromise (within reason, of course...you are the parent!) is in order. IMHO.

I've got a child who has traveled in the age ranges you listed. My advice is that if you keep enough activities going, this won't be a problem. My daughter may have buried her head in her iPad when we were on the subway, but not constantly. My wife and I would also read or look at something other than out the window. When we went back to the hotel room and crashed, my daughter might relax with some electronic thing while we closed our eyes. To each his own. But, when we were out walking or visiting a museum, she was paying attention to what was around her. Trust your kids. They'll absorb things in ways you won't necessarily recognize or appreciate at the time it is happening.

We have let him play his DS now and then while we finish dinner. At night we sometimes leave him in the room and he watches tv (BBC or cartoons in different languages often). I say do not make a big issue out of forbidding electronics.

Peter, This wasn't an issue when my kids were growing up as iPad's (or similar devices) didn't exist, so I didn't have to deal with it. I tend to agree with the others that some use is acceptable, such as long train journeys, the flights or in the Hotel at night. However, I'd impose strict limits so that there are no "distractions" during tour activities. It would annoy me to spend several thousand dollars taking my kids to Europe, only to have them spend a lot of the time with their noses stuck to a video screen rather than seeing the sights and experiencing the cultures of Europe. If they'd rather spend their time staring at an iPad, they can do that at home. That's what I would do. Happy travels!

Well, our family of 5 takes long-ish trips - like 4-5+ weeks and we usually rent a small car at some point. So you can imagine how difficult it would be to keep the peace on a 4-hour car ride with the three children sitting shoulder-to-shoulder in the back seat. On those occasions, they are either reading (as in actual paper-based books) or watching movies on their iPod touches (everyone in our family has one). It works amazingly well to make long-ish drives like that not only bearable, but easy. Yes, there are occasions when I'll see some bit of great scenery and try to point it out to them only to realize they can't hear me and by the time I gained their attention, we would have passed it. But overall, I think it's a worthwhile way to make trips like this work with children whose attention spans and interest level is different than our own. However, we DO NOT ever let them pull their iPods out during the majority of the day when we are busy seeing stuff. If I ever saw one of them staring at their iPod while we were in a cathedral they would lose it! If we have a couple hours of down time in the evening, the children can do whatever they want. That keeps them happy, which makes the trip easier for us. Sometimes we even leave them alone in the lodging and go for a walk and be childless for a little while. You might enjoy that, too. There are other ways to ensure they are intellectually engaged in your trip. Read up on the history of what you're seeing and pass that along at relevant moments. Talk about the little differences like items for sale in a grocery store or styles of architecture. They may or may not be able to be as overwhelmed by the experience as you hope to be, but that doesn't mean that they won't love it in their own way and remember it fondly forever.

Well, are your kids allowed to yank your book out of your hands on long train rides? Train rides can be boring and kids have shorter attention spans than most of us adults. Yes, if the scenery is great, point it out, but "banning" these items that are part of their daily life at home on hours-long train rides and waits is pretty mean, in my opinion. In some places scenery gets monotonous. Sometimes they just need a break from new stimulation and playing a game or watching a movie lets your brain relax. Doing so in a Cathedral would be one thing, but during transit? Or at the hotel at the end of the day? The hotel will not be significantly more "magical" than any hotel in the states. What's the big deal? This probably won't be feasible for you since you're talking about an iPad in particular, but for people who will have data access on Smartphones with kids in Europe, why not use their tendency to be on the devices all the time into part of the travel? I use FourSquare obsessively while traveling by train or plane to "check in" at various locations, getting points and posting on Facebook which lets my friends and family see where I am and what I'm seeing. It's fun and a way of using a device that is still directly related to the travel I'm doing!

Well... I am in the minority here. I have taken 3 grandkids to Europe... all at different times, and there is no Media. They watch the movies on the plane and we have watched local TV in the rooms and made up our own dialog as we understood nothing. I bring sketch pads, watercolors, journals that they have to fill in, and thats it. They never complain about no media because they know its not even available. I take all 4 boys on vacation with me in the US and if the media games come along they barely interact.... so my answer is a big definite NO... if they want to watch movies and dream about places to go they might as well stay home. Just took the 15 year old to Paris, Normandy and Germany and he actually told me it was a relief not to have his phone. Books are always welcome. They always have their own camera so that keeps them on the lookout for the next great image.
It sounds like you would prefer that they not have these items.... they will survive and be all the better for it. Maybe everyone will even talk!

Well my kids survived without electronics for 3 weeks at a time. They were 11 and 14 . Seperate trips with each. The thing is I didn't want to be responsible for the stuff, didn't want to pack it , store it, make sure it wasn't forgotten etc. I guess I was lucky, my kids didn't mind at all, they were happy to be travelling ,, whether it was in Europe or States. They sure didn't think we were "mean",, maybe some kids are too spoiled by getting to travel internationally and take it for granted? We found that many places we stayed had a bit of english tv at night. And my kids read books. Strange I know, but there it is,, they like books. lol That said, I admit to taking a KOBO last trip,, 100 books in one small unit, but its a unit that was under 100 dollars so figured if I lost it then it wasn't end of the world.
We did however bring an old VCR on our long RV trips in Canada,, for nighttime and more importantly for the early mornings( they were up at dawn most of the time, ugh) and couldn't just wander outside at campgrounds waking up other people. They were of course alot younger( under 10) Most planes have seat back entertainment, that precludes "needing" to bring something else doesn't it? Plus I wanted them to sleep on plane, we arrive in the morning and we don't do naps first day.

Pete,, all that I said worked for us, I guess you gotta do what works for your family. I will only suggest that at least the electronic stay at the hotel during the day while sightseeing. They can manage at least to sit and chat with you at lunch. During long rides then whatever works seems fine ,, not all trips are scenic.

Peter, We were fortunate that our kids were never into electronics beyond Pacman at a young age. They always loved to read and still do. If I were taking my kids today, I would allow an iPod, cameras, old-fashion travel games which make them interact, and encourage them to bring books or buy them along the way. I agree with Pat and Terry Katheryn on this.

I just don't see the difference between a book and watching an electronic device, really. Both are forms of distraction and entertainment on long trips, in the hotel after a long day of sightseeing. The TV you'll get in the hotel in most places is crap - unless you're really into the Simpsons or Two and a Half Men dubbed into various languages. And what's different between a TV, an electronic device, and a book, anyway? What are the kids supposed to be doing for the couple hours between returning to the hotel and bedtime? People need downtime. Particularly when you're traveling together and interacting more with each other than you would at home. Sometimes older people, maybe who didn't grow up with these devices (I didn't either - got my first smartphone of any kind this summer) don't realize that it's really just the modern equivalent of any entertainment, be it a book or whatever. I prefer to read books on trips because I like books, but I was pretty grateful that my brother brought me a flash drive of "Game of Thrones" for a 6 hour train ride to watch on my netbook. A train ride never went by so fast! The OP's question didn't seem to be about having the devices WHILE sightseeing but during long trips and in the hotel room at night, which is totally different. I agree that kids shouldn't be using these devices when you're out and about, but in transit? Why would you let them use it on a plane but not on a train? This seems to be a combination of "Everything in Europe is magic!" and "The darned kids with their devices today!"

We let our kids take books (as many as they wanted to carry), music, and my son took a hand held video game. None of these things were with them during the day while we were sightseeing. They were "restricted" to hotel and car rides. We tried to make a point of getting back to our room each day for a few hours in the middle of the day for down time. This meant no talking to each other - so of course it was a great time to put on earphones and chill. And in the car it really wasn't fair as most of the time the kids were in the backseat and it is MUCH harder to see and appreciate it all (having taken my own turn back there). My daughter would just close her eyes but my son read or played a game. When we'd come home late at night we did sometimes watch the local TV together - it was another part of the adventure. So no, I wouldn't have it out while I waited for a train, stood in line, etc. That would be "active" family time and we'd be talking about what we saw, where we were going, etc. One problem I see is having only 1 ipad. Not only do you have to have "rules" about when it can be used, there would also be the whole "it's my turn now" thing so now you are playing referee about who gets to use it when. Too much trouble for me when its so easy to check email in hotels (if that is the main reason for bringing it). If it were me with young kids now I'd make them sleep on the plane or watch what was there. I'd let them bring books - or an e-reader as long as each one had their own. I'd let them bring another electronic if they wanted - like an ipod. And I'd keep them all in the hotel room or the car. Of course BEFORE our trip I'd be searching out all possible appropriate movies and having many family nights getting ready!

If acting like locals do means anything .... You will get loads european kids all across europe on their ipads on boring train journeys across endless stepps. I'd just let them get on with it and have fun on their holiday.
S

You know, they have iPads and Disney movies in Europe... Kids are still kids. They are not little adults. While they may enjoy Europe on their own terms, they are not going to see it the same way you do. I'd say give them a balance of education and entertainment. I can assure you, European kids don't spend all their free time in dusty old cathedrals.

You asked what we would do...relax...that's what, and just employ whatever rules you use when traveling as a family here in the USA. We don't know you, so we really aren't in a position to provide parenting advice. Frankly, however, it seems many parents need to get with the program regarding technology and how it's become such an integral part of most teenagers' social lives all around the developed world. In times past, other things helped kids develop. Today, technology serves an important role in helping kids develop. It's not inherently good or bad. Many parents may not get it or like it, but it is what it is. And let's give kids a little credit for becoming engaged, independent, rational, responsible, smart, and thoughtful young people in spite of evil technology (or even in spite of adult thinking sometimes). There are times when limits or restrictions make sense (i.e. discipline), but why run the risk of ruining a vacation for you or your teenagers by cutting them off from their social world unnecessarily? Music isn't a distraction...it can add to an experience. And what better way to pass time on a fast train than watching a good movie or getting up to speed with friends via Skype or Facebook at 200 mph? BTW, the kids in Europe are exactly like the kids here as it relates to this topic. Your kids can and will enjoy everything they should enjoy when in Europe...they may actually enjoy it even more when you're not heavy-handed about this.

Just be careful that they don't spend an unexpectedly large amount of money downloading stuff through European mobile networks.

After reading your other post, I did some serious thinking about this. Our kids are grown now, and this wasn't an issue back when we were taking them- the technology just didn't exhist. But if we were doing it now, I think I'd let them play games, listen to music and watch already downloaded videos during wait time, on trains,etc. and for a limited time at night. I would NOT let them use facebook, email, etc. due to security concerns (see your other post). Once info is "out there" you can't control who accesses it- really. So they'd have to wait to update their status, commuincate with friends, etc. until we got back. We do limit who knows when we are gone. But due to family health issues, we have to stay in touch with certain family members on at least a daily basis now. That is one of the reasons we've had to limit ourselves to only overnight USA trips for the past 3 years, and why I miss Europe so much!!!

There was an interesting travel story in the Washington Post this past weekend that touched on this subject. Basically, the writer found that once the kids were without their electronics, they adapted very well and enjoyed their surroundings.
However, this question is touchy because you ask how one should raise their children. Some kids don't even have access to this stuff at home, let alone on vacation. If it were my children, I would give them a certain amount per day to be used only in very specific situations, and let them at it. Maybe thirty to sixty minutes a day in agreed upon settings.

Yeah, but isn't the Ipad/games/movies of all this a bit of a red herring in this whole topic. Let's assume the kids only bring novels, coloring books, or trading card games....they would still "detract from the ambiance and surroundings" just like an Ipad would. Yet if someone suggested banning reading materials from for children traveling in through Europe they would be laughed off these boards. There's a lot of double standards running through this topic.

I agree with Terry Kathryn and Pat....they don't need them in Europe. They have them enough while at home. They can use what's available on the plane, in the evenings in the hotel have them do a journal then maybe watch a little tv.

Good for you Peter that you have a concern about travelling with your girls with the iPad and the possible effect it will have on their holiday experience. We have a 5 year old grandson, like kids everywhere at this age he is addicted to these blasted things. I hate the damn things. Fine to pass time on the long plane journey and for a bit of 'down time' back at the hotel. Why is it we feel the need for kids to be 'entertained' every waking minute. We spent hundreds of hours on the road when our kids were younger travelling around Australia without the benefit of 'electronic baby sitters'. They had books, games, made up their own games, we actually talked to each other. How often do you see a group of people dining out reading books at the table? You can't possibly compare these devices to spending your time with a head in a book. How hard is it to fill in 15 minutes or so waiting for a train, meal in a cafe etc. with conversation?? Call me old fashioned, but it really bugs me when I go out for a meal and see kids sitting at the table with one of these devices.
Baaah humbug!!!!

"...You can't possibly compare these devices to spending your time with a head in a book... Seeing how you can use these devices to read books, the comparison is very easy.

As I hinted, posts on the "holier-than-you" line started to appear. Technology is a part of life. We should all get over it. Not further ahead, personal communication devices will be an inherent part of life like electricity, space heating or cable TV. I'm sure parents taking kids on vacation at the very beginning of 20th century were agonizing about how inappropriate was to have electricity all the time in their travels, and only "unplugged" travels would be legit. As another commentator properly pointed, a book serve the exact same purposes of an iPad, netbook or whatever: multitasking. To assume reading a book is "positive" but updating facebook on free Wi-Fi is "negative" is a hatred view of the modern world, in line with those that get disappointed some teens in Switzerland watch Jersey Shore and Big Brother as well. I think being curious, interactive with the World and engaged in discovery is a behavior kids learn from their daily lives. Imposed disruptions will not change ways in a 4-week trip. This being said, properly used technology can do amazing things. Assume a near future (no further than 5 years) of augmented reality everywhere, when a kid could suddenly take his/her own iPad in a museum, point to an obejct, get an Wikipedia article and a list of something from their History class, tag it and send to a group of friends. However, as others said this end up being a discussion about parenting, and that is a personal thing. I guess make all people involved in a trip own a bit of it is still a good receipt for engagement.

I teach computer graphic design at a high school so I am surrounded all day by teenagers and technology. It is a way of life for a lot of them. Maybe try a compromise - there are a lot of great apps out there that combine art and photography into "games". Take a look at "Skambler X" - it is a puzzle game with famous pictures that as you put it together it gives you interesting information about the picture and the artist. Our Art History class uses it. Or download some of the photography apps so that they can turn a picture that they took into poster art or HDR photos. Most of the museums have apps so they can pick out there favorite pictures ahead of time and then search for them when they get there. There are ways to turn this into a win situation for both you and your girls.

Lets keep in mind,, OP ASKED "what would you do", so if you ask for other peoples opinions, you get them. OP is not the one complaining mind you, its some others who don't like others peoples views. Secondly, Andre, while some kids in Europe may in fact watch "Jersy Shores" I would hope some parents,, here and there, have the good sense to not let their 11yr old child watch shows about young adults who drink party and swear the night away. Thats just my opinion . Lastly, I think most of agree some tech is fine,, listening to music, maybe a hand held game for train rides etc,, but then we divide ,,some think all access( facebook, music, games , movies, email, etc. etc. ) whenever there is a small lull in sights, others thinkits ok for evenings or long boring drives. I don't think anyone thinks technology is evil,, thats just what kids like to say when they are thwarted in having all access .. lol Everyone on this site is on a computer right, and we are all not under 30,, so it goes to reason we all see the BENEFITS , but are mindful that there are other ways to entertain oneself, and other ways to do things. Seems some folks only see one way.

It's too bad Andre mistakenly perceives what is probably a generational difference as holier-than-thou answers. If those answers agreed with his own, would he label them as such?

Since you are probably dictating 90% or more of the daily sightseeing itinerary, the kids are spending the majority of their day going where you want to go, and seeing what you want to see. I don't see the harm in letting them watch a movie (as you put it) "after a long day of sightseeing" or "waiting for a regional train". It's one thing to ban iPad use when you are out during the day being active, but I don't care how quaint and brimming with Euro Charm your lodging is, it's still the inside of a hotel room and it's the end of the day so what "ambience" is being lost on them when they are lying about a hotel room in pajamas wanting to watch something on Netflix? Now if they started whining during the day about how they wanted to go back to the hotel to lay around and watch movies all afternoon, that's when you lay down the law. Tell them your expectations before you pack the iPad in your carryon. No fighting over who gets to use it...iPad stays locked up in hotel room safe when you are out sightseeing (or it stays in your day bag if you plan to personally use it for maps, Apps, sending email at WiFi hotspots), etc. If you have free time that hasn't already been planned out by you, have the kids use the iPad to search for an activity or a sight that the family can do together in whatever city/town/village you will be visiting the following day. That may help them feel more connected with the trip instead of being dragged to yet another cathedral or museum that they had absolutely no part in selecting. If they spend all their time at home watching movies have them select 1-2 movies each week that are filmed in the countries you are going to visit during this trip. They might want to visit some of the film locations. Build some excitement for them now and maybe they won't be wanting to use the iPads 24/7 when you are over there.

Ceidleh, very well put. Fantastic idea to involve the kids BEFORE the trip; ownership is everything and they might just be very proud and excited upon their return home to share their experience with their friends. Wonderful to get young people thinking more globally. Linda

Good point Ceidled,, I made my kids do some research before we left home, and asked them to come up with three "must sees". There is no reason kids have to spend entire time doing just what mom and dad come up with ,, if they can come up with a few ideas of their own. And as pointed out by many posters, kids today are adept at using technology, so no reason whatso ever for them not to be able to google "sights in Rome" or whatever. My dd did at 11 , so think any child over about 10 should contribute to family trip, there is less whining if they take some ownership of the trip.

These last several replies are quite good, but I have to agree with others that there is a bit of a double standard here vis-à-vis technology versus books, playing cards, or some other older person's idea of an acceptable way to pass time/entertain oneself. And, most definitely, there is a huge generation gap that seemingly makes it impossible for some to understand young people in 2012. BTW, technology isn't just for entertainment purposes for young people...it's an important part of their social development. If you don't get this, do a little research (or just don't worry about it or opine on it). OMG: "Call me old fashioned, but it really bugs me when I go out for a meal and see kids sitting at the table with one of these devices. Baaah humbug!!!!" What?!? Why would this bug you, and why would you care? You don't even know these people. The old adage about minding one's own business comes to mind. Lighten up, and don't be so crotchety.

Michael , it is just as rude to sit at a table with a book in hand when you have a table of family or companions.. people should be able to maintain basic MANNERS no matter what their generation or comfort level with technology. Manners are timeless. Learning how to converse with your companions, enjoy their company , even if they are "just family" is a skill set that youth need just as much today as they did years ago. Some families may be happy to ignore each other all the time though,, perhaps parents don't want to be bothered to converse with their kids either, could work both ways.. but it is sad.

Pete... well, you have certainly gotten the full spectrum of answers here, but in re-reading your post, I think you really want to give it a try without the media. So, if you want further support, there is a whole theory of education based on limited media and if you want to read up on it just look up Waldorf Education. It is based on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner who was from Stuttgart, Germany. If they need some distraction at times I think most parents and educators agree the benefits from reading a book are tenfold compared to playing a video game or watching a movie. If you are afraid of ruining their trip, just think how stressed out you will be if they are engrossed in a computer while you want them enjoying the 'magic.' As the one who pays the bill...you have the power!
There are lots of young parents who are questioning the effects of all this media... I learned a ton about it from my kids who are young parents. I follow their lead.

I couldn't care less what devices kids use or don't use on a train, as long as they listen through headphones...

Too many responses to read through, but from my perspective, I think it would not help you or your kids for you to tell them they can't read/listen/play a game while in Europe because it's something from "home." My kids have been travelling with us since they were 5 months old and the other was 2. I have never once scolded or banned them from bringing any games/books that they felt compelled to bring along on a trip. Train rides can be boring especially when they go on and on like our trip from Paris to Brest. Even I was relieved to have my ipad or iphone to play Angry birds or solitaire. There was only so much gazing out of the window I could do, especially since this was my fourth trip out there last December. Honestly, they will learn things while out sightseeing, and encouraging them to try new foods, candy, desserts, or walk around a grocery store and compare the European items vs American grocery store items can be great fun. My kids always loved hitting a grocery store, a bakery, the market etc. Relax. They will learn and appreciate the culture they are being exposed to, but don't deprieve and dictate what they can and can't do as entertainment whilst abroad. You're setting yourself up for rebellion.

James succinctly hits the nail on the head, as always. I don't know why the conversation has become about social interaction, the original question was very specific about downtime in the hotel or on long regional train rides, not playing angry birds or watching a movie while sightseeing or at dinner. I mean, frankly, I think the iPad is an overpriced, less-than-useful device in the first place but if you have one and you're bringing it, those two situations are the ones that it makes sense to utilize it in. Otherwise - just don't bring it!

Ed makes an excellent point. My take on it? No way. They will be in Europe, for crying out loud. They should SEE it, not veg out with their electronica. Even while waiting for trains there is stuff to see. I wouldn't even let my kids bring an iPad along. If it isn't in Europe with them - tempting, always tempting - they will have to suck it up and deal. I think you'll be surprised how engaging the real European world will be!!!

Question posed to 15 year old grandson that has been to Europe with me twice... once a few months ago...he strongly answered ' No way'.... 14 year old who has been there once 3 years ago... said 'maybe only to use at night....but maybe not'
9 year old movie addict has not been to Europe with me yet...no comment (he's fearing I won't let him bring Media) :)

I think there is a difference between having something from home to vegetate with when kids are overwhelmed or tired, and spending ALL of Their time on an iPad or iPhone playing games, emailing or on FB. If mine were told we couldn't bring any electronics on a trip when they were younger, they wouldn't care. Now that they're older, we each have a piece of electronic that goes on trip with us... Me, iPhone. Dad, iPad, kids iPod. We share the iPad with them if someone wants a game while on plane or airport, or very long
Train ride. It's really not so different from what most Europeans do on trains...eat, sleep, laptop, book, iPod, iPad, phone etc.

I'll make further comments. If somebody want to go for heterodox educational and child-bearing theories, it is their business and of their family. I'll not go there. I'm all in favor of early education and multi-sense stimulation with the latest possible gadgets. This being said, what I really don't get is this idea that riding a train in Europe should be different than waiting at an airport gate in US (or elsewhere). Whatever attitudes one adopts when travelling to Orlando should apply when travelling to Strasbourg, Firenze or Madrid. If a family understand and live by some rule of "no-headphone-devices" when going to a Disney resort, the same should apply when going to Cinque Terre. If a family goes with kids taking all things to Disney, same should apply to Cinque Terre. A long vacation is already a natural overwhelm of senses and predictability kids needs in life to a point. Changing the rules for something more restrictive wouldn't help IMO.

I find it interesting that I have not read even one post that objects to books and non-electronic games being used on trips. The only difference I see is that the electronic media is less familiar, so it is suspect. All these things are just used to pass some time while waiting or relaxing. I also see nothing wrong with not having books, electronic stuff,etc if that's what you want.
We have taken our son to Europe several times. He played his games,etc, but he also learned a lot. I know he did because he's 21 now, and he remembers more about some aspects of our trips than I do. I took my iPad last summer. It was marvelous to have, especially for pictures. And I have a lot of books on it to read too. I do think it is very important to have all that ironed out ahead of time. Everyone needs to be happy with the decisions.

I find it interesting that I have not read even one post that objects to books and non-electronic games being used on trips. The only difference I see is that the electronic media is less familiar, so it is suspect. All these things are just used to pass some time while waiting or relaxing. I also see nothing wrong with not having books, electronic stuff,etc if that's what you want.
We have taken our son to Europe several times. He played his games,etc, but he also learned a lot. I know he did because he's 21 now, and he remembers more about some aspects of our trips than I do. I took my iPad last summer. It was marvelous to have, especially for pictures. And I have a lot of books on it to read too. I do think it is very important to have all that ironed out ahead of time. Everyone needs to be happy with the decisions.

Peter, Another question for you to think about: how well do your girls get along? My boys are just a bit older than your kids and I'm pretty sure being able to unwind in the evening by watching a movie has prevented many a sibling related meltdown. The kids may be well out of their element, jetlagged, and overstimulated. Chilling with a movie can be a very effective remedy. I have been quite grateful for Hollywood on more than one occasion. That said, use of electronics during sightseeing and meals is strictly verboten. I agree with that. Learning to "be in the moment" is an important life skill to learn. Also, your kids are certainly old enough for their electronics to help out on the trip. Some folks mentioned searching for sites, but learning map skills, GPS and train routing are just some of the challenges that kids can solve really well with their "infernal" devices. I love it when they can find the way better than I can with the old paper map!
Ultimately, though, you are the adult. You get to choose!

First...I did not read all of the above posts, so excuse me if I repeat someone. I think it'd be OK to let them see the videos when encountering long train waits. But I also think it is OK to limit it--nothing wrong with saying you've been on that thing for 2 hours, let's do something else for a while. At the hotel at night, maybe have a ritual that you get together and tell your favorite memory of the day. Also bring glue stick with and put ticket stubs, etc. in their journals.

First...I did not read all of the above posts, so excuse me if I repeat someone. I think it'd be OK to let them see the videos when encountering long train waits. But I also think it is OK to limit it--nothing wrong with saying you've been on that thing for 2 hours, let's do something else for a while. At the hotel at night, maybe have a ritual that you get together and tell your favorite memory of the day. Also bring glue stick with and put ticket stubs, etc. in their journals.