Will We See a Greater Move to Winter Travel?

No, things are going to stay the same because of children, school, and work obligations like you already said.
Couple that with the fact that the average traveler from the USA that is not retired does not get the kind of vacation time conducive to leisure travel any time the want. And retirees are more likely to go somewhere it is warm and not Europe where some do not like that the days are a lot shorter. I work full time but am in position to travel leisurely pretty much anytime I year that I want.

Will We See a Greater Move to Winter Travel?

If I were a betting man, I would bet not.

I am lucky to be retired and have more flexibility. I usually travel in April/May or Sept/Oct already. Recently I have begun to think March or April in warm spots like Italy, Spain and Portugal might be even better. I've traveled to London and Paris in November (for my birthday) and had a great time. We have drought conditions in the northern plains states and several days of rain sound pretty good to me right now.

Not winter, but shoulder season. May/June and September/October will become the new big thing. For hotter places like southern Spain, Oct-Nov or March-April should also enter the equation.

Hi RJ,

For your discussion, I just took a quick view at my recent June 2023 RS tour for next year to give some data points to the discussion. For the Best of the Adriatic tour for 2024, here’s what I see:

5 dates are waitlisted. They’re in April, May, Sept, Oct.
3 with limited seats. They’re April, May, September.
There are five offered in June, zero in July, three in August.

Price isn’t a factor because none of those were the cheapest weeks.

Interesting question, we are retired and typically travel in April/May which is getting much busier. We are in the middle of planning a trip to Italy for this coming February, the savings in airfares and hotel prices is significant. Coming from WI the cooler and possibly wetter weather isn’t really an issue.

I was just contemplating a winter trip to the UK. Love cold weather and I think a city like London with its museums and theaters would make for a great winter destination . So yes I think you will see people who can travel I. Winter start to do so.

Jean, could it be that the average RS tourist is retired, so they were already in the demographic that can do shoulder season holidays? Dont know. Real question.

If you are touristing for the top 10, then warmer weather makes a difference. If you are traveling to experience cultures then you are missing half the culture by avoiding winter; and I think especially those places that have relatively long and hard winters.

It gets dark too early? Say who. The problem in the Summer is it doesnt get dark early enough. Nothing more beautiful than the lights of Paris and Budapest. The theaters come alive and in a lot of ways the night life is more vibrant. Great time to visit. And for me at least, when I am in a culture that is out and about in 30F weather, not complainig its cold, just enjoying the day ............. i tend to feel the cold a lot less too.

More often than not, I have traveled November thru March. I'd just as soon not see everyone switch to winter travel. It will ruin the peace, the lack of crowds and the welcome from the residents. That being said, can I convince you not to travel in the winter due to the cold? I hope so.

I was walking the Camino Frances in May. There were two of us who thought the weather was perfect if not a little hot. Our mates thought it was freezing. So, again, you might not like the cold, so keep to the summer. ;)

I do not see travel season changing.

Personally I am open to travel at any time of the year. Climate & weather at destination is of little concern to me and I have reached a point in my career where I amass leave and comp time quickly & generously. I can travel whenever I want without being shackled to the traditional travel/vacation season and can take advantage of the out of season prices as a solo traveler.

But I am the anomaly. There is a reason for the long established travel seasons all tied to the ebb and flow of family life through the year. September to June the kids' school schedule rules the roost and its simply so much easier to do any significant travel in the summer. Travel in the year is to see family at Thanksgiving or Christmas, plus a short family vacation around Spring Break.

Young folks, couple without kids, those early in their careers have different influences, but life does settle down into a pattern. Much the same reason that Appalachian Trail thru hikers are usually teens, 20 somethings and retirees but not as common at 30s and 40s.

Although I'm retired, the only winter travel I have ever done or ever intend to do is London in December. For me, anything under 50 degrees is too cold for the walking that I otherwise enjoy in Europe and clothes for cold weather take up a lot more space in carryon luggage.

I detest flying during cold and flu season, but I have to as part of my job. More than once a hacking cough of someone (or a lot of people) nearby ended up ruining my next week or more. A mask helps but sadly not foolproof. Also, I realized you have to eat or drink eventually, and when you do you're breathing in the unfiltered air.

Regardless of any possible upcoming trend in European travel, it won't affect me. I'm sticking to summer travel regardless of its pros and cons. It is all matter of trade-offs.

No way am I going to travel in the winter months, not interested in going over at that time, tried October traveling in Germany once. I did not like it, something not to be repeated for various reasons.

Thanks to all for the responses. I understand the arguments against winter travel. But it seems that the variance in price between travel in the summer months and other times of the year is growing wider.

Note that I checked the fares for just one airline and the pricing for only one Paris hotel during the time period of November 2023 through June 2024. This is what I found.

First, the pricing for air travel. I looked for the least expensive fare online for Delta for travel in roughly the middle of each month, leaving on a Wednesday and returning two weeks later on a Wednesday with the schedule New Orleans to Paris and then Amsterdam to New Orleans. The first price is main cabin seating and the second price is comfort class seating.

Nov. 15-29--$924 /$1,209
Dec. 6-20--$952/$1,237
Jan. 10-24--$924/$1,159
Feb, 2-21---$924/$1,159
Mar. 6-20--$1,024/$1,334
Apr. 10-24--$1,124/$1,424
May 8-22--$1,624/$2,099
June 5-19--$1,624/$2,199

Then I checked online pricing for a nice Paris hotel for a five-day period beginning the day after the flight to Paris. This is roughly what I found as far as euro pricing per day:

Nov.--299
Dec.--259
Jan.--299-329
Feb.--229
Mar.--269
Apr.--309
May--359
Jun.--399

It may be that March, April and late September through October are the sweet spot for many, but the savings for winter travel can be considerable.

OP, I’m in!

We’re currently looking at switching our usual spring trip to winter this year. Since our focus is art anyway, for airfare and hotel savings alone, January makes sense. Weather should be OK in Madrid and Barcelona (right?) and Paris is fine for me in any weather. I’m looking at Delta Comfort+ SEA/MAD/CDG/SEA in January for $1400 a piece v. April same for $2000 each. I’m seeing similar differences in hotel prices.

RJ, your cold hard facts are correct.

And what you are traveling to see or experience is available in the Winter, it is a no-brainer.

Winter travel is a great alternative, if you don't mind the cold (er) weather & less or lower light. We can't pack quite as lightly & need hiking boots for slippery surfaces & rainproof jackets, but otherwise it's just the usual stuff. I do recall not seeing the brilliant Mediterranean light at sunrise or sunset that is seen later in the year. But as big city museum lovers, why not?? @JenS, excellent idea! (And I would add Rome to that list, mid January - mid February should be a relatively quieter time.)

We’re currently looking at switching our usual spring trip to winter this year. Since our focus is art anyway, for airfare and hotel savings alone, January makes sense. Weather should be OK in Madrid and Barcelona (right?) and Paris is fine for me in any weather. I’m looking at Delta Comfort+ SEA/MAD/CDG/SEA in January for $1400 a piece v. April same for $2000 each. I’m seeing similar differences in hotel prices.

We’ve traveled to Rome in February a few years ago and it was fine. We walked everywhere. The weather was Cool, definately not cold. I wore a longsleeved shirt, sweater, and blazer with a scarf. It was actually very refreshing walking around and not melting.
We traveled to Egypt, Jordan, and Israel in March - perfect time. And Spain last October, again, perfect time.
We avoid June, July, and August as much as possible.

I will be testing my suggested approach in December. I will be in Paris and London but first in Amsterdam and Bruges. And pricing is driving the trip, but the pricing concerns a westbound Transatlantic crossing on Cunard, which I have always wanted to try, and had booked but had to push back twice in recent years for obvious reasons. The time of year impacts substantially Cunard's fares for a TA crossing, and I have reached a stage in life when, with one exception, I can travel when I want to do so. (The exception, which will not surprise those on the forum living in Florida and near the Gulf Coast, is that I will not travel abroad from mid-August through September, the most dangerous stretch in hurricane season.)

For business and personal trips in the past, I have travelled to Northern cities in the winter--New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Boston. The winter weather is such a change from what I am used to that for a limited time I find it an adventure. The only times I have been unacceptably cold were sitting in football stadiums in Philadelphia and Green Bay.

In the past, my preferred months for travel have been May and October. Health permitting, I suspect in future years because of pricing I will consider travelling in March and April and later than October. We'll see.

I think I would have had a different response if you'd mentioned a transatlantic crossing in mid winter! I use to sail in SE Asia with a guy who trained people on transatlantic winter crossings by taking them out in storms in the Irish sea. NOT for me! I would hate the risk of much rockier seas. I'm not sure of the exact west versus east bound transatlantic crossings, but hopefully you don't get seasick easily!

This topic has hit a nerve this week for folks who live in Florence, Italy. A particular street there that was not that long ago filled with small food shops has been taken over by a panini shop (they took over the spaces of the other shops in recent years; not sure if partly Covid related) and the crowds trying to buy and then eat their panini in the street is serving as a lightening rod of frustration. This has generated opinion pieces asking folks to not come to Italy in July. Anecdotal comments include the fierce heat and impact on workers dealing with the tourist crowds and power outages in less touristy areas affecting locals but the power stays on in the tourist areas (the power grid has been struggling too). Folks working in the tourism industry mentioned they would appreciate the work being spread out more through the year for various reasons.

I've been a dedicated shoulder season traveler for a while. I hate hot weather. I hate big crowds. I've taken trips in early February several times (Rome, Madrid, Florence) and have Lisbon booked for the first week of February 2024. It's turned out to be one of my favorite times to travel.

With the exception of about six weeks between middle December and late January, the weeks that seem to be the darkest and coldest, I'll happily travel during the off season.

I spent a week in Copenhagen late last August. I thought being that far north, I'd be comfortable. Alas, I was hot the entire time I was there. I'm done traveling anywhere in summer that has the potential to be very warm.

My husband saw his dental hygienist last week. When he last saw her, she was planning a trip to Italy with her daughter and daughter's boyfriend. Last week, she had just returned from that trip. She said Italy was beautiful, but the crowds were unreal, even in smaller villages, "shoulder to shoulder", and the Italians seemed totally over it. Her dream trip turned out to be a big disappointment.

When I was a teacher my travel was dictated by the school calendar. While it was great to have those vacations, it was also when so many other people traveled as well. When I left teaching, I was so looking forward to being able to travel at any time of year, and not at prime school break time. But as fate would have it, I am now in a job year round that is very hard to take time off from at all--so sort of out of the frying pan into the fire from a travel perspective (or first world problems, I suppose too). I tend to stay home during summer and do a lot of backpack trips, and as far as bigger trips would like to do more fall and spring travel. International travel during the winter kind of worries me as I am not a big fan of snow, storms, turbulence, cancelled flights, etc. (all of which, reports, say, are going to get worse with climate change).

The only times I have been unacceptably cold were sitting in football stadiums in Philadelphia and Green Bay.

When the foam on the top of your beer freezes and you have to poke a hole in it to take a sip, then you have had the true Lambeau experience.

I have traveled often to Europe in the winter to ski, and always make a stop for several days afterward to tour a European city. This past year, we were in Barcelona, and while not over-run, quite a few visitors from South America were there. As Covid restrictions were lifted in China, expect more people to be visiting in the winter months. North Americans are not the only fish in the tourist sea.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see more winter travel. We’re definitely considering it. I’m a teacher and we have school-ages children, so no flexibility. Otherwise, I would definitely travel in the shoulder seasons. But, as I’ve seen the heat waves across southern Europe soar this summer, the idea of winter travel is more appealing. We picked this summer’s destinations based largely on temperature expectations - We just got back from Sweden and Ireland. Much as I love Italy and want to go to Greece, it’s not pleasant to travel and sightsee in extreme heat as many have had to do.

We don't ski anymore (old bones), but there is something about the ski season in the Alps. The Alm, the kids, snow, the clear blue skies, party! We make several winter vacations to the Alps a year. Always one around the holidays for the "Stimmung." Holiday Deko, lights along the eaves etc. 4-6 hour drive for us. I grew up along the Great Lakes and had many "Lake Effect" winter days (school snow day!). Winter is in my blood. Love indoor outdoor pools during snow. A nice fire in the fireplace. I hate to see warming eating away the glaciers in the Alps. I'm seeing new Pista and lift construction even as the natural hills close due to lack of snow. I'll enjoy as long as I can. Tourism is always growing.

I generally do these trips in spring or fall, for cooler weather, better prices, and smaller crowds. Plus, why leave the beautiful Northwest in summer when it's at its best? Winter here is a different story, and I often try to get somewhere south for at least a couple of weeks. But I'm think that big cities like Paris, Rome, or London could be alternative winter destinations, after the holidays. SEA is pretty good for transatlantic flights as long as the plane is going straight across and back, not depending on winter-prone US airports like Chicago or Minneapolis or, God forbid, Denver.

RJ -- Why are you reluctant to travel to Europe during US hurricane season? That's when I'd want to be away from home. Or do you stay because you need to protect your house and stuff if a storm is coming?

Dick, agree with all of that. My SIL lives near Port Angeles.

I'm looking forward to avoiding the summer tourist crush after I retire. It will be like a slice of heaven.

When I lived in Australia and Dec/Jan was the main holiday period, we'd often take the kids to Europe - we had some very nice times in winter, including a month in London and Paris when the kids were very young. More recently we've spent several Christmases in London, and a couple of years ago had Christmas in Edinburgh and new year/Hogmanay in the Cairngorms (amazing hiking in the snow, and stayed at a little pub with a roaring fire).

By contrast, we were in London in July, and it just felt too hot, not to mention fairly busy. Equally we went to Paris in May and it was far more crowded than we were used to.

We now travel to Europe several times a year across all seasons and I still prefer winter - am planning December in Tallinn. But then again, I live in a hot country and have come to appreciate winter!

United has a promo to Paris for ca. $800 plus provided the flight is in October and Nov 2023, the deadline to book is by 4 Aug.

Nice but since I only go over in the summer to Paris, I won't be able to take advantage of this very nice price.

Well spotted! Here's a link to the UA basic economy to Paris, here's a random week in mid October and amazingly, it is non stop from SFO. Probably also possible from LAX. https://www.united.com/en/us/fsr/choose-flights?st=bestmatches&d=2023-10-16&taxng=1&f=SFO&fl=1%2C%200%2C%200&px=1&EditSearchCartId=68058D3F-382B-4DCD-94EB-02AE06F36924&sc=1&r=2023-10-23&frmflxc=1&tqp=R&t=CDG&EdtSrch=1