Why not answer the question.

The dad should have told her to study what she was really most interested in (and handed her a copy of "What Color is Your Parachute") I generally skip itinerary questions - especially if the answer will rain on someone's parade. I try to stick to more specific questions that I can offer a somewhat informed opinion on - but, I confess, that does include packing lighter and avoiding clothes that don't travel well. :)

I find it odd that a dad with a daughter who is a junior in high school doesn't know that his daughter hates math and thus would hate being an engineer or be crap at it. Sort of like the husband who makes reservations at a hostel without taking into account that his wife will absolutely hate sharing a bathroom. Even though they have lived together all those years, he is clueless, just like the dad with his daughter. He has never paid attention. I liked what Ed from Pensacola said, and James too, hit it on the money.

"I AGREE - the questions on the HelpLine are somewhat similar to the "discussion with Dad". Sometime the people who post only want their choices to be validated, and don't want other suggestions. However, I believe it's still a good idea to offer those "other suggestions" Anyone remember the hula-hoop lady and her ill-fated trip to Switzerland?

Ah, yes the hula-hoop lady! Her legend will never die here!

Who can forget? The hula-hoop girl was classic.

As others have said, unsolicited advice has a point if it is truly helpful to people. Some people ask how many dollars to exchange and the unsolicited advice (use ATMs, change some money before you leave) would be infinitely more helpful to them than suggesting an amount of money. Some "advice" is personal preference and opinion - i.e. some people prefer backpacks, others wheeled suitcases - but it also might help people decide what would work best for them.

** get asked about how much money to bring in travelers checks - get told not to bring them ** get asked about what kind of sleeper sack to bring to protect against bed-bugs - get told these are useless ** get asked about wearing khaki pants because jeans are not accepted and mark you as a tourist - get told that this isn't true, you can wear your jeans ** get asked what kind of shoes to wear as you heard you shouldn't wear white tennis shoes - get told you can wear your white tennis shoes ** get asked about driving a car across 10 countries in 10 days, what will it cost cause you are on a budget - get told to get out a map. also get told that it is expensive to take cars across borders even though you didn't ask about that at all. I am sure there will be others chiming in with similar items.

So what's the best highway in Albany for car surfing, I-87 or I-90?

I-90, I-87 you are likely get stuck in traffic would make it less fun.

I agree with many of the things you said. I have seen lots of threads get responses that really have little to do with the original question, or that offer unsolicited advice. Most of the time when that happens, people are really trying to offer a better experience than they think the OP will get with their current plan. Sometimes it's done in a way that is uncalled for. Perhaps that's when private messages should be used, to alert them to something they may not have thought about. I don't agree, though, with your example of "prepaid cards" (substitute "travelers checks" also). Most people who are asking about those things really don't know that there are cheaper options, or they don't know that things have changed since the last time they traveled. If you ask for the best (cheapest) prepaid card, the real answer is, "None of them. You can use the ATM card you already have." If you were asking, wouldn't you want to know that? Even as an experienced traveler, when I first saw these being advertised at my credit union, I thought maybe there was some benefit to using one - until I checked into it further and learned of the setup fee, the fee for loading, the fee for taking unused money off later, etc. Prepaid cards are marketed to people who don't know better. Aren't we here to share what we have learned?

Sometimes the asker does not put a lot of thought into asking the question so answerer makes a number of assumptions about the intend of the question. And when that happens, assumptions can be off target. When asking a question, I taught my students, you need to consider the "shape" of the answer. Have you provided enough information to answer the question? Also, if not prepared to accept any answer, then don't ask the question. Too many questions are not questions at all but rather asking for confirmation of a decision that has already been made. When the conformation is not received, then they get defensive trying to defend the question. It is two way street. If you cannot ask a good question then you might not get a good answer. Both the father and girl were equal wrong in their responses. Neither was interested in the question or the response.

Having just completed my first trip to Europe and having read this board and followed a lot of advice.....I'm amazed that folks have the patience to answer any question since nobody seems to heed the advice given and most of the questions have been answered repeatedly. Most itineraries I've seen here are to aggressive, including mine. Most rollers suck (except the ones with skateboard wheels IMO). I have yet to read a post where someone didn't take enough stuff and wishes they had taken more. Why would you use a prepaid card?
Zipper shorts look good with those over engineered flip flops with all the straps. Just as the father in your story went wrong in giving advice, sometimes asking more questions to steer someone in the proper direction would be more effective.

What's unsolicited advice to one person might be useful information to another.

Sometimes the daughter listens to the father and is employed after graduating from college.

Usually the question gets answered in the post somehow. And if the OP doesn't like the responses he/she is getting, they can always come back and restate their question. It seems, and maybe I'm wrong, that a lot of the questions listed are asked by first-timers. And with as much money they're going to be spending on their trip, I don't feel badly giving some advice that I think might be helpful. They can choose to take it in or not.

Maybe a good policy would be to answer the question, and then give further advice as you see necessary. I would have to agree with Frank, sometimes the person posting does not know what they are asking, and a bit more info could lead them into a direction they had not thought of before.

The problem, Ed, is that sometimes the premise of a question is indeed flawed. Do you really disagree that traveler's checks are essentially worthless in Europe because even banks--let alone shops and restaurants--won't accept them? Certainly that was my experience even ten years ago, and although I haven't tried since, nothing I have read or experienced suggests any differently. If you disagree, feel free to explain why so many of us are wrong. Imagine that you are driving past my house and stop to ask me "Does the road I am on go to Charlottesville?" Now I happen to know that there are land mines planted all over the road, but to say so--by your theory--is offering "unsolicited advice". So I just tell you, "Yep, sure is," and I listen for the distant boom.
These are not children asking for advice, and they are certainly free to ignore any advice we may give. Often the advice differs, which is also useful. If all the Helpline is intended to be is brief Yes/No answers to specific questions, then the number of characters per response should be less than a Twitter. I see the Helpline as an opportunity to engage in a dialog about travel, to respond thoughtfully to questions based on my life experience, not just to give information one could easily find with Google.

"not just to give information one could easily find with Google." Of course, that never stopped He Who Shall Not Be Named. I seem to recall Mr. Steves saying that one of his motivations for getting into this business was to help others avoid the mistakes he himself made through trial and error.

I agree with those of you who say sometimes the premise of the question is truly flawed, such as "Which travel cheques are better, Visa or Amex?" I am not saying it is wrong to point out neither is a good choice. But plenty of questions on this board do not suffer such a flaw and get derailed anyway.

Which brings up the issue of whether one should give a man a fish or teach him to fish. When I see the oft-posted question "How do I get from Pt. A to Pt. B by train?" I am tempted to give an unresponsive answer by pointing to the various website, bahn.de, trenitalia.com, renfe.com, sbb.ch, etc. But sometimes the question poses a novel problem or interesting twist and then I go ahead and do the work of looking it up. Unfortunately that doesn't help the person learn to do it for himself or herself. On the other hand, in some cases where I pointed out that the person could easily look up the information on their own (giving the websites), and should learn to do it, I've been called rude.

I think the problem isn't the traveler's check type comments. Problem answers come from a couple of sources: One is from people who have traveled a bit, but only along the RS routes. They have no basis for comparing those limited places, or ways of doing things, with what else is out there. It makes for a line of lemmings with their noses burried in a blue and gold book. Another is from people who have only been out of the box once, are proud to brag about what they did, and are so effusively vocal that they sway the impressionables into going down some really stupid paths. And, of course, there's the googlized crap based on zip personal experience that may or may not apply and is generally wrong, anyway. And, I agree with everybody else, that some of the questions are so uniformed and use such incorrect terminology that you have to toss out a box full of answers and hope that one fits.

ed, What an interesting and thought provoking question! As a parent, I can somewhat relate the conversation between your friend and his daughter. After I read your description of the conversation a few times, my impressions were: The daughter was had narrowed her interests to a couple of specific fields, and basically wanted validation of her choices and an opinion to help her choose. She probably hadn't considered the fact that neither was a good choice for a well paying career. She had no interest in anything but the two choices she presented. The father felt that she would be better focusing her efforts on something that would lead to a well paying job (as most parents do), and possibly failed to realize that his choice wasn't one of the options "on the table". While his intentions were only to provide the best advice for his children, he didn't allow for the fact that sometimes one has to allow them to make their own mistakes and learn "the hard way" (as some of us did). As neither party could reach agreement, they both "got their backs up", and the discussion came to an abrupt end. Hopefully they'll both give this some thought, and will discuss it again. I AGREE - the questions on the HelpLine are somewhat similar to the "discussion with Dad". Sometime the people who post only want their choices to be validated, and don't want other suggestions. However, I believe it's still a good idea to offer those "other suggestions", as they may contain information the OP hadn't considered. That's especially true for first-time travellers, with little experience on conditions in Europe. Interesting discussion......

@ Tom, Ah yes, the "Hula Hoop Lady". Who could forget!!! I wonder what ever happened to her? I used to have the link for her website somewhere, but I've misplaced it. Hopefully she's doing well.

The last contact I had she was hanging out in Zurich hoping to find a friendly couch to sleep on. Personally I think Ed's example was a little contrived to get the discussion rolling. A junior in high school will change majors a dozen times. I known a lot of juniors in college who didn't haven't decided on a major including my younger son.

I am NOT going to join in this interesting discussion, but as a relative newcomer here (under a year) I would love to know about the "hula hoop lady". Can anyone fill me in on this or direct me?
Or - am I supposed to start doing a search for I am not sure what I am looking for :-)

It's the internet. Disagreements are bound to happen. Not answering the question but judging the poster on a different tangent is bound to happen. Hijacking a post is bound to happen. What is the solution?Punishment by banning posters? Should those non helpful posts be deleted by the forum master? If I were making a mistake of some sort and did not know it, I would want to someone to tell me that I am making a mistake before I spend a butt load of money on a trip.

Truthfully, I do not think it is much of a problem. There was only one big blow up that I can remember was when an admittedly overweight person in her 30s asked a question about getting door to door taxi service in Europe because she could mot walk more than block without being exhausted. She got more advice about getting in shape than she could handle. But the point was valid that you often have to walk more than block inside a big train station. And that you need a certain level of fitness to see Europe well. I have seen exchanges on other travel sites that are far more brutal than has ever been on this site. This site does attract a lot of travelers with a similar mind set and a willingness to share. There are real experts on this site with a depth of knowledge that exceeds anything that I have seen on other sites. So, I don't much should change here. The webmaster looks after the flock reasonably well with little intervention.

""not just to give information one could easily find with Google." Of course, that never stopped He Who Shall Not Be Named." This is true, although I was flabbergasted at how many times the Google link was exactly what was needed - facepalm. Hence, answering someone's question with unsolicited advice at times...is exactly what is needed.

I agree with "Tom from Chicago"'s comment that what's unsolicited advice for the OP might be useful information for another. When I post, I assume there is also an audience of "lurkers" looking for useful information, not just an OP. I often get PM's from people who have never actually posted a query. Sometimes they want more info, sometimes it's just a thank-you....... Edit: I thought "lurker" meant people who read a board, but do not post anything? I can't see anything negative or evil in that, it's just people seeking information.

And some have suggested that I should join that crowd.

LOL, Frank! Hi, I'm Eileen, and I'm a former long-time, hard-core lurker.

Well, I hope to speak for many of us when I say, we're glad Eileen came out of the closet and kicked her evil lurking habit. And we hope Frank will stay on board, as well. :)

New to the board, mostly lurking, but have learned a lot! The last time I traveled to Europe was 20+ years ago when ATMs hadn't been invented and travelers checks were still the done thing. I had no idea that had changed until I started reading here! So, many thanks from lurkdom for offering more than just a surface answer. Pam
<fading...back...into...lurkdom...>

Taking this a step further is the daughter deciding to major in history and posting that decision and thanking dad for his help. Then mom comes along and tells her she should think about majoring in pre-law because she did and loved it. Mom obviously missed the entire conversation and is not being helpful chiming in now...

What do you expect when a question is put out to hundreds of people. That's the beauty of forums, especially this one, you will receive a myriad of replies from people who all have different travel experiences, vastly different styles of travelling in regards, to budget, mode of transport, accommodation etc. I usually find one that fits me. If I don't, so be it. I for one, am a big fan of Google. Use it extensively for pre-travel planning. Having said that, it's helpful to come on to a forum such as this, and run thoughts, ideas etc. past such a diverse group of people.
I love my luggage on wheels, have never used travellers cheques, or owned a pair of zippy pants, only use white shoes for tennis , have absolutely no desire to experience staying in a Hostel, or driving on the wrong side of the the road. That's what works for me. Different strokes for different folks.

The one that has always bugged me is when someone specifically states that they want to take a driving tour in a certain country and asks specific questions about such a trip, and someone ALWAYS answers by telling the poster how great the rail system is in that country and that the poster should take the trains. As others have said, if a person wants to answer the questions asked and THEN point out an alternative (trains), fine. That gives the person something else to consider. But simply inferring that touring by car is somehow inferior or stupid is just not helpful. People often times have reasons for wanting to use a certain mode of transaportation and they shouldn't have to explain this in order to ask questions.

I definitely lurk more than I post. What I notice and see this when I travel with students, people tend to ask a question with a particular answer in mind that they want to hear. It serves as some sort of justification to them and no matter what advice they are offered, they probably won't take it. It doesn't happen with everyone, but I do notice it. My personal favorites are about Ryanair. **Ask about Ryanair and their carry-on policies-get told to be prepared to fly into a remote airport and not to complain, because you pay for what you get.

I find it odd that a dad with a daughter who is a junior in high school doesn't know that his daughter hates math and thus would hate being an engineer or be crap at it. Sort of like the husband who makes reservations at a hostel without taking into account that his wife will absolutely hate sharing a bathroom. Even though they have lived together all those years, he is clueless, just like the dad with his daughter. He has never paid attention. He did that! Three years ago, for their "lets go on a romantic vacation and save our marriage trip." It wasn't a hostel but a hotel without ensuite bathrooms. They have been living separate ever since. (Dragging their feet on actually finalizing the divorce though)

Thanks, Kent - although I've been making up for lost time; some may want me to join Frank in Lurkdom ;-) Come Back, Pam! The water's fine...the more, the merrier! Put those water wings on and jump in. When a question starts out something like 'hey, so OK - we're arriving in Paris from the USA at noon, staying for a night, then we're driving to Rome the next day, then, like, we're going to just drive around the city for a few hours just to get a feel - see the major monuments that can be seen from the road and all...do we need reservations for the Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, oh and we'd like to bop over to Versailles if possible blahblahblah. Oh, can we park next to the Colosseo? That would be so cool' - I'm NOT going to answer THAT poster's question LOL! Yes, that example is a bit exaggerated (not as exaggerated as I'd like to think), but every week there's something like that on the Helpline. And every month someone is bemoaning their first trip, wishing someone had stopped THEM from making so many mistakes. I DO try to give an answer to the question, IF they want to do it their way, but I also want to give alternatives where possible (somewhere along the way if they decide their itinerary IS too crazy, I try to give them some options for the rest of the trip) and sometimes I bring out the Large-Size Can of NO! I'm not going to rubber-stamp someone's ideas if I think they're wacko. Luckily for everyone else in the world, they don't have to follow my advice ;-) Oh - and everyone knows you're SUPPOSED to use a backpack - duh ;-)

I think people are trying to give positive input and treat these forums like a conversation. It shouldn't be only speak when spoken to. In general people here are quite civil. What I always dislike is when someone posts "oh this question again it's been asked 1000 times....". Well if you don't want to answer it ignore it, it is not easy to search here and it's good to get up to date input.

I think sometimes people are not only looking for affirmation on their choices, but advice from someone who may have the same travel philosophy. If someone wants to do a whirlwind trip by car, they will probably not be helped by someone who tells them their choices are foolish. I think 95% of the people here are truly trying to be helpful and relay their experiences so as to be informative. But, there are those who are condescending, correcting people's grammar, demanding they say please and thank you. Some delcare they do not want to waste their time on foolish questions (while wasting their time to reprimand the poster). Just because other sites are worse does not make this okay. I wish it were like facebook and I could block a few who are consistently rude and not helpful. It is outrageous that people are afraid to post their questions because they might be reprimanded by someone they don't even know! (who is supposed to be helping)

One more thing: maybe we should make sure we know what the current premise of the question is before commenting. Sometimes the OP changes their itinerary, etc. within the thread and people continue to respond to the original question. My personal favorite is people who give advice months (years, sometimes) after the OP has returned home!

I've been away from the Interweb for a few days and want to thank ed for the posting, and all the others for their contributions. I think its important that we have these sorts of "staff meetings" from time to time.... BTW - I love zip off shorts - in the right setting. I was at an outlet mall on Thursday and the score was shorts - very few, capris - several, jeans - most people. Khakis - perhaps 10%. Pink hoop skirt with black poodle polkadots - one.

" Pink hoop skirt with black poodle polkadots - one." Nigel, I bet you looked absolutely precious ;-) I'm with Charlene and I'm going to add my own spin on her comments - I detest 'Classic View'! I wish it would go away; then, it would be easier to spot those posters who didn't read the OP's question very closely and ALL of the subsequent comments. And therefore, it would be much easier to flame them LOL! (just kidding; as SNL's Frankenstein said, "flame, baaaad")

@Nigel... after posting a very controversial question about khakis in Viennna a few weeks ago, I have also
been checking out the mens pants... just returned from Europe and much to my amazement I saw more variety than I expected, and not all were good. I took photos of some of the most outrageous and should put together a slideshow of European (or American, or Germany, or whatever ) mens pants! One of the best was a knobby kneed older gentleman with jeans cut off way too short, the jeans hiked up way too high with a shirt tucked in and a belt and socks and shoes.... Oh, dear!

"I have also been checking out the mens pants" Terry kathryn, I guffawed! Yes, good "staff meeting" as Nigel aptly put it. The tone on the Helpline is such a standout compared to some other forums. Real people offering real insight. I don't even like reading the others. This is "home." Now back to those pants: If Italian men can wear yellow and red pants, surely zip-offs and jeans have a place.

Ok folks, I have to admit I am a major Ricknik Mother Lurker. Not such a big poster. I read the helpline almost 3 to 4 times a week while at work, (which explains the drop in U.S. productivity). I love Jo, Tom, Pensacola Ed, The Texan Eileen, and many others too numerous to name. The time we had in Germany 2 years ago was made so much more enjoyable by Jo and Tom's suggestions. I still remember the poem in Schlitz at Christmas. Schlitzer Weinnacht ein Gedicht, unterm grossen Kerzenlicht. I have changed holiday vacation plans, modes of transportation, routes, and calendar dates on the strength of a few people that post here frequently. The route we are taking in September down the eastern coast of Italy is a circuitous snake, loaded with suggestions from posters on this board. I would never have known that a majority of these places existed. I do my own due diligence, though, and research carefully before jumping off. I love this helpline. I gave up my wife's secret bechamel sauce receipe here, with a pique'd onion.
Answering the question about daughters now. When my daughter was between the age of 13 and 19, you could not talk to her about anything at anytime. All of a sudden, she changed back into the sweet little thing she was before. Don't know why, don't care. Good to have her back. It's just part of life....

Sure, some of these folks are just trying to be helpful by taking you down their unsolicited tangent. Then again, a lot of it is also the self-righteous who think, or want to make you think, that they are the all being, all knowing travel expert. So they spew their lecture at you for your own good, and feel better that they've impressed another (as they perceive it) with their knowledge. "Take my advice ,whether you like it or not. " That's helpful. Thanks. It's for this reason - getting unsolicited advice, and for being made to feel inferior for asking some basic questions, that I no longer post on this board. I made the exception in this case because of the content. So thanks, Ed, for bringing something up that needed bringing up.

Pardon me while I go spew a bit more. Think I will head off to Wales now, where everything is wonderful, check out some mens' pants, like Terry Kathryn (hoping she posts some photos on FB) and then go make some popcorn for the rest of the evenings entertainment.

"The Texan Eileen"...Hmmm, sounds like a WWII bomber. Or a saloon LOL! Thanks, Crash, for the funny mental picture! Keep on lurking, keep on posting. With my left hand on the "Best of Europe 2001" and my right hand raised, "I commit myself to posting better answers to OP's questions." (right hand drops to side) I warn you, though, that if the question requires more than a simple answer...they'll get that from me, too ;-)

@Eileen: you only have the 2001 edition?! I hope that's a typo. If it isn't, are we gonna have to have a talk with you about buying you-know-who's books?
:)

I forgot one thing. Whom or what was the Hula Hoop Lady? And He Whom Shall Not be Named? Beetlejuice? To paraphrase William Wallace, "they may take exception to our answers, but they will never take.....OUR FREEDOM!"

@Kent - I own practically every other (individual country) book since, and several (in many pieces, lovingly stuck back in their bindings in page order) from before 2001. Even the "2-22 Days in ___" series. AND the phrasebooks. AND the maps. AND my personal RS Travel Store that I could open ;-) Am I excused LOL?!? (BTW, the 2001 BofE book is green and gold; probably not even recognized in some states. I may need to retake my vow with a 'blue and gold' if I cross state lines LOL)

Eileen, you are definitely excused. In fact, the Helpline Subcommittee on Book Purchases is putting you in our Book Buyers Hall of Fame.

I read this board almost every day. I go to Europe every summer. I have gotten burn out of answering posts from folks who, by the wording of their question (my assumption), have done little or no research on their own before posting their question. I always try to ask if they have the RS Guide Book for the place they are asking about, saying if they do, great, and if not, they should get it as it has lots of good information that will help them in their planning and perhaps to focus better on asking questions here. This, I admit, is not a direct answer to some of their questions, but I do not take the time any more to answer a very general question that we see day and day again (money, ATMs, itinerary reviews, etc).
One of the reasons for my reading this board daily is to not only contribute when I can but also to learn from those who have gone before me and "done that". Happy travels

Oh my, Eileen -- I have the green Europe Through the Back Door 2001.....and I just found my 1990 copy of same!! Frankly, I think many of the posters should be doing some basic research before asking questions. I "lurk" a lot and have learned a lot, and I am continually amazed and impressed with the extensive and thoughtful answers given again and again by most of the "regulars."

@Jo... I will get to examining closely all my photos of mens pants and put together a slideshow... I just need suggestions for a song to go with it...or, I might wait till I get back from Turkey & Greece (leaving next Mon) as I am sure there will be many fashion statements for me to photograph there! Should I post a question about which pants are appropriate for my 10 year old grandson to wear???? more controversy!

Ask for any advice - get told, "well, what are your interests?, what do you want to do while you're there? why do you want to go there in the first place?" Ask for advice (disguised re-assurance) of has anyone of this planet been there and was it ok? - get told, "are you for real,? is this a joke? google that,
research it yourself... Yes, I am one of those guilty ones that has been fear-stricken when making accommodation reservations, flight reservations, etc.. having never been there, and YES, asking seemingly stupid questions of you aficionados (which you have patiently and impatiently replied. ))no punking, intended)) ) YES, it is quite frightful traveling for the first time here and there... and multiply that to factor in the children and their interests, SO, that need for knowing for certain whether there is a train, plane, or is it worth the expense / time ....... That is why I ask.... PS - I assure you (now I feel like the unsure girl who hates math) that I google, search, read, and ask and still need infor... thanks, DAD

I think unsolicited advice is fine and many people probably appreciate additional information. The issue really is the tone of the answer. If the advice is offered in a kind and gentle manner, it goes a long way.

Exactly, who could possibly complain at well ententioned and FREE unsolicited advice. Even if it's just someone showing off how much he/she knows, it's hardly worth getting het up about, just ignore it if it doesn't apply. It's when you get told 'check the internet, stupid' that I draw the line.

'check the internet'... this IS the internet.... and I feel there are no stupid questions... only arrogant people who don't want to answer them.... then don't! Sometimes this is the first place people look for advice, not the last.

So, to all the complainers: do you not think it bizarre when someone says "I am going to Rome, has anyone here ever been there?" What shall we see or do? What in the world should be the answer here? What will be ok in your list of rules for answering forum questions. If I tell you to go visit churches XYZ cause the vaulting is the best, and then go to church ABC cause the organ is fantastic and then go to church EFG cause the stained glass is done by artist LMN you would be telling me that actually, churches bore you and what you really want to see are WW2 sites or chocolate stores. So, why not tell us that in the beginning? It isn't the poster who asks for specific information, we love helping them, it is the poster who has done zilch for research and then comes on here and wants people to plan their trip for them. Then when we do, someone else comes along and tells us we are arrogant and pushing our own agendas on these poor unsuspecting souls. Oh yeah, I believe the word was spewing. Call me odd, but there is no way I would spend 1000's of dollars to go somewhere that I knew nothing about, but have bought plane tickets there anyway and am leaving in a week. Then I come on to the forum, and ask my completely open ended questions. I cannot then turn around and be annoyed that people are making suggestions about sites and activities that I didn't ask about, nor that don't interest me. I rest my case.

Off topic MY FOOT! Let's me be perfectly honest: who knows all there is to know about world geography, climate, people, villages, towns, foods, footpaths, blah, blah, blah etc... Even after people study, read, watch movies, study more, research... nobody knows it all so to step up and help out us ignorants... PLEASE! (pleading tone) and YES,, what if we want to spend thousands of dollars and discover the world... and have ziltch knowledge... is that supposed to STOP us, closet adventurers? are we to crumble when we find out that the more we know, the more we NEED to know??( advocative tone) so you out there, just ZIP up the attitude and share your wealth.. that's what I plan to do when I get back, broke, sun-bathed, "learned and traveled" in Europe. (righteous tone) and if you don't believe in learning by doing, then, why the H$$$! are we constantly spending our money, spinning our wheels, blowing up our budget, wasting hours pouring our Foders, our Frommers, our RS Europe, etc, googles, dictionaries on how to say it in the English way, reading hotel reviews, reading blogs..
then why not throw in our two-cents worth and help up along the way, OR do you want to make the same idiotic mistakes you never made?? (bargaining tone) Hear this!! There has been ATTITUDE and sarcasm and hollaring {{urban way of saying hollering}} along the way... but I am still sticking with these blogs because there are glimpses of knowledge and experience and links (I truly did not know they existed) and yes, sometimes, the books give you dated links, hotels, etc... and hope that my trip (along with my $$) will be worth it. (resigning tone) The neat thing about these blogs is that there are international feedback and IT makes me feel so much more cosmopolitan... (creditable tone)

Amen, Jo. Terry kathryn, I'm also anxiously awaiting the photologue; I hope you've got a photo of Nigel in his poodle skirt. If not, just Photoshop one; we'll never know the difference ;-) We do all have our backpacks, right? 'Cause it's the only way...and don't even ask about driving a car...or wearing zip-off pants...they make you look North American (giggle). And we sure don't want that...

Amen and amen, Jo! I am happy to help with specific questions, but more and more I avoid the "plan my trip" questions, though I will sometimes help them narrow down the type of information we need to give good answers. Sometimes (many times) posters forget that we are not in their heads. When they ask, "how much money do I need to take?" it really matters where they are going and when (and how many people and what they consider "inexpensive"). They just forget that WE don't know they have been planning a three-week trip to Paris in July. We aren't being picky when we ask them to clarify some things. Answers can be completely different depending on the location and time of year - like whether or not to book B&Bs ahead or book on the fly.

I don't usually give a direct answer because I am more interested in giving
MY oh so important opinion whether or not it pertains to the original question. It's really less about the question and more about me. I can't believe this thread is still going.

See the thread titled "Week trip after Christmas". A great example of why sometimes you can't simply just answer the question.

Tom : "See the thread titled "Week trip after Christmas". A great example of why sometimes you can't simply just answer the question." Tom I completely agree there are SOME questions that can't simply be answered as asked. But there are some such as "can anyone recommend a light weight 22" rolling suitcase for my 21 day 19 city tour of Europe?" that can and don't need lengthy tirades on why wheels are bad, why the suitcase is too large, or the interary to aggressive.

... its not as bad as the 19 day, 21 city questions, after all. Its fun watching people fall into the abyss. Much more fun than guiding them safely to the handrails.

Some people don't want to know where the handrails are, anyway, even if you point out how necessary they might be.

Sometimes the unsolicited advice can be very helpful in that the person asking the question may not know that there are more questions or different questions that should also be asked. For example, in Roe's example the traveler was not aware that they should ask whether the road was full of landmines. While sometimes I find it annoying, I have also benefited from unsolicited advice. For example, we were planning a DIY cruise excursion and posted a question about taking the train to Pompeii and Sorrento. My intent was to go to Pompeii in the morning when the temperature was cooler and visit Sorrento in the afternoon for a little shopping. A response I received not only advised me about the train but also suggested that we should go to Sorrento first because the shops might be closed in the afternoon. It was not a question that I had asked, nor did I know that I should ask it. However, that bit of unsolicited advice was very useful to me.

"Its fun watching people fall into the abyss. Much more fun than guiding them safely to the handrails." Not nearly as much fun as telling someone that the are going to be absolutely miserable on a prebooked 100%, prepaid organized tour they have been looking forward to their entire lives and just need some luggage for.

On the Transportation page there is a post that screams "give me unsolicited advise'! Someone planning a 27 month stay in Europe and their main concern is airline prices for next year and the year after that. And they plan on working on farms while there for no pay! Sometimes it's just too hard not to give that advise.

IMO Barry has got it exactly right (post immediately above). And some of the folks who need unsolicited advice the most seem to be the least likely to come back here and acknowledge or discuss it. In the case mentioned by Barry, one can only hope the OP is lurking and got the heads up, since their stated plans could lead to a bad outcome if they remain oblivious to the big issue.

What was the question?

@Roy, this was the question Barry was referring to: http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/69994/train-plane-or-bus-for-27-month-european-adventure.html

Kent, thanks for putting the link to the post on the Transportation page, I thought about putting it on my post on this thread but then I thought, nah, make em work for it, LOL! It's going to be interesting to follow that post to see how it plays out, when or if the OP comes back, and what advise is given and hopefully accepted, the thought on what they want to do isso wrong on so many levels if I do say so myself, we all want a truly unique European adventure and this could be one if one did it realistically. I've gone back and edited my original post with info on the organization she mentions, sometimes a fella just can't help himself!

Kent, thanks for putting the link to the post on the Transportation page, I thought about putting it on my post on this thread but then I thought, nah, make em work for it, LOL! It's going to be interesting to follow that post to see how it plays out, if or when the OP comes back, what advise is given and hopefully accepted, the thought of what they want to do is so wrong on so many levels if I do say so myself, we all want a truly unique European adventure and this could be one if done realistically. I've gone back and edited my original post with info on the organization she mentions, sometimes a fella just can't help himself!

Now, I get it! The father answered the girl's question (which was really a form of "what do you think?"), but the girl became so frustrated by his lack of empathy, she is abandoning her plans for college, dropping out of high school and running away with her boyfriend for a 27-month tour of Europe. :>) Sometimes it is better to step back and let people make and learn from their own mistakes.

The post about the 27 month stay in Europe has disappeared from the Transportation page, and she never came back with her thougts on what was posted. But not all is lost, there is now a post by someone planning on shipping their van to Europe and their only question is insurance. I saw it last night and there were no responses, today there are quite a few, somtimes I wonder if these are trolls just looking to rile up the masses. Ah, the RS Helpline, always a great place to be entertained with strange questions that just beg for unsolicited advise.

"strange questions that just beg for unsolicited advise." (from Barry) Yep. Good turn of a phrase, Barry.
Usually we get the typical nuts and bolts questions, but once in a while....

Sometimes people just have to learn things for themselves. For example, last December I learned that I don't particularly care for travelling to Europe in the winter.

The structure of the Grafitti Wall doesn't help, because you have few sub-divisions. Were RS to adopt a more forum-like structure, with more specific forums and sub-forums, this specific problems would disappear. More importantly, RS promotes and attracts a crowd keen on travelling "smart". Then, sometimes voluntarily and sometimes involuntary, we think that we know how to make other people's trips better. This is fueled by the approach of RS in explicitly crossing the mark on specific places and cities ("Bologna is a so-so town, better skip it for more time in Venezia","Bordeaux must have meant dull in an ancient language" etc). Many of RS readers then incorporate the practice and start commending that "driving in Italian cities is utterly non-sense","don't ever trade location for comfort in Barcelona" etc). The most common example bothering me, as an avid driver, are people who don't really know opportunities for car trips branding they are "worthless" in Switzerland or "absolutely not needed in Naples/Pompei, as the Circumvesuviana will take you everywhere" and so on. When people identify themselves with a certain travelling style, they often reduce what they consider reachable/worth. To keep the example: a person who considers to be car-free an essential part of vacation will automatically put certain itineraries on the "undoable" or "unpractical" tab because they would require cars to be taken. Others are adamant of not taking internal flights in Europe ("I already fly 50-100 times a year in US for work" and I'm tired of airport lounges") and then they became promoters of train travel at all costs.

I have been hanging around for awhile and offering unsolicited advice when I thought it was needed. And I thought I had seen it all till today -- To The North: Rate my itinerary... please! Ireland, England, Scotland -- Eight changes of locations, all already booked, in a ten day travel window including days arriving and departing. Now she wants input. My guess is that advice will NOT be accepted.

......and the thread to which Frank refers was deleted after a couple of replies......gimme approbation or gimme silence

Which begs the question -- why bother asking for someone to critique your itinerary after you've already booked it?

An honest answer is what you'll get here. Like "Should I buy a 1976 Ford Pinto or a 1977? You will likely get the answer "Don't buy one" because it's the honest answer. If you don't like the answers you get here, go somewhere else. Sheesh!

Sometimes the question is so asinine that you feel obligated to give your honest opinion even if it is off topic.

Richard: I concur.
Great discussion.

^^^ But those weren't the ones I was talking about. YES, there are threads in which the OP asked a bad question, that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about when the OP asks a perfectly good question, and the responds don't answer the question but use the thread to preach their one and only perfect way of traveling in Europe -- no wheels on luggage, spend multiple days in each city, no wearing shorts, travel exclusively by public transportation etc.

"Which begs the question why bother asking for someone to critique your itinerary after you've already booked it?" That is basically my point. There weren't asking for a critique of their already booked itinerary. They were asking if a Eurail pass was a good option to get them from the hotels they had already booked if they should just by individual tickets or for a luggage recommendation and instead of a critique of the itinerary.

But they were asking for opinions on their itinerary, hence the title "Rate my itinerary -- please!"

^^ Two very recurring instances of what you described: "We already booked our trip to Brussels. We are still in doubt about staying in the Hilton ABC or the Marriot XYZ in Brussels. Does anyone know about location and access to both hotels"? This would be a perfectly good questions, but an usual answer here would be "don't stay in Brussels, it's the worst city in the World, stay in Bruges instead". Other example: "We have leased a car for our 23-day trip with Renault. I will have one long drive from Paris to Verona, with some overnight stop, and I'm wondering which route is best - via Brig or via Mont Blanc tunnel". The fellow have leased the car, wants a tip on a road route. Then answers follow: "oh, no, you are unable to do that because it is like a 500 miles trip" or "ditch the car and use the train because it is better for you and the environment" and other patronizing advice. OTOH, sometimes people are genuinely clueless, like asking about what do to in London during their 5-hour layover in HEathrow.

I didn't really have much to say, cause I already said it, but just wanted to be post #100. Now, if we could only have the website updated so you could click on "last page" or "last post", so we wouldn't have to go wading thru this mess. One last item while I have your attention and to see if everyone has learned their lessons on how to behave: What will you tell people the next time they say want to come to Frankfurt and spend time there? Will you tell them to go someplace else? Oh, but what if they say they are going to stay close to the airport, because they don't realize that the city is so close and all the "airport hotels" are actually far away. Think it will be all right to answer the question here that hasn't been asked?

"Think it will be all right to answer the question here that hasn't been asked?" Yes.
The Helpline Subcommittee On Answering Questions That Haven't Been Asked, hereby authorizes you to do so.

Andre: which is what I meant when I said earlier "The one that has always bugged me is when someone specifically states that they want to take a driving tour in a certain country and asks specific questions about such a trip, and someone ALWAYS answers by telling the poster how great the rail system is in that country and that the poster should take the trains. As others have said, if a person wants to answer the questions asked and THEN point out an alternative (trains), fine. That gives the person something else to consider. But simply inferring that touring by car is somehow inferior or stupid is just not helpful. People often times have reasons for wanting to use a certain mode of transaportation and they shouldn't have to explain this in order to ask questions." Just answer the question!

Looking back, Ed was clear about his intent in the original post. But the example he provides is of someone asking for an opinion, not information. A lot of these lengthy discussions get started because the OP, like the girl in Ed's example, is not clear about what she or he does want. It is hard to offer concrete advice in situations like that, but we could show more empathy at times. Let he who has never made a stupid decision in his life cast the first stone.

97 replies later and I still fail to see what exactly is the problem. This is a free website and the responses are posted by the general public, not salaried employees of the hospitality industry. If you don't like the response someone gives... well, at least you weren't paying for that person's time. Go somewhere else and ask the question again, but don't be surprised on free websites if you get more of the same. Some people's responses irk me (HeWhoShallNotBeNamed, for example), and I'm sure I've annoyed the hell out of some people in the past, but so what? If you're feelings get so hurt by anonymous postings from people you will never meet, then you'd best stay away from the internet all together. This site is just about as civil as it gets in cyberspace!

Not to beat a dead horse (wrong metaphor?), but I'm still lurking here trying to find out more about the Hula Hoop Lady in Switzerland. Can anyone enlighten the handful of us who are still curious?

I'm with Dick. I too missed the hula hoop girl. Inquiring minds just want to know... Pam

Jo, your answers (and many others) perfectly illustrates what I am talking about. The thread is about when people ask perfectly good questions and the responses completely ignores the question being asked and instead discusses why the very question is wrong. You complete dismiss that there are posters that ask good questions that are taken irrelevant tangents and solely focuses on the poorly asked questions that this thread is not about. You are doing in this thread repeatedly exactly what I am suggesting we ought do less of. Despite my clarifying that I am NOT talking about the types of questions you repeatedly bring up.

James, you make me laugh. And apologies to ed for derailing the conversation a bit, but it seems the Hula Hoop Lady has peaked the interest of some... I was just sitting here trying to recall the details of the story and it occurred to me I can't remember many. But this woman/girl had met a Swiss (?) man and decided to uproot her life in the USA and move overseas to be with him. They had not known each other for very long, but she felt certain he was "The One" and this was a life move worth taking. She was a bit of a free spirit, I guess you could say, although she was a bit free of her senses, too. Her grand plan involved teaching dancing classes once she settled in a bit, and pesky details such as work visas, or extended visas of any kind, were not going to slow down her dreams. Paperwork be damned, she was after true love, after all, and wasn't going to let a little thing like laws stand in her way. Anyhow, she managed to get over there but before to long, surprise, surprise, he dumped her and she posted here that she was alone in Switzerland with essentially nothing but her hula hoops. A round of "I told you so" may have ensued on the thread, and from there it deteriorated and eventually she left the forum in a huff. I think the last we knew of her she had found someone's couch she was sleeping on? She did have a blog, but I'm not sure if anyone still has the information. To others who remember her, am I remembering this correctly?

Was this her website? I just did a search on this site for Celtic Dancer... http://www.celtdancer.com/ Edited to add: it would appear she is a "Life Strategist" now, in addition to "Hooping for Whales."

Angela, I think I can speak for most of us and say...We Love You! Hooping for Whales... edit: H for W - dang, you beat me to it ;-)

Angela: Good work!

I guess I am one of Ansbach James' "Canadian Broads" (see his post above) and I greet you James on this July 1, Canada Day! I will try to post more often. Angela, thank you for the Celtic Dancer information. The way I remember her story is that she met the Swiss guy in Hawaii, they had a little flirtation, he went back to Zurich and then one day soon after she landed on his ever-so-proper Zurich door step, unannounced and uninvited. He apparently had his enthusiasm for her well under control by that time and did not welcome her into his flat so there she was, burdened with hula hoops and dashed expectations and hoping someone, anyone, would rescue her. It was amusing and sad at the same time, but the underlying theme was that this was the story of her life and would continue to be so.

Thank you, Norma, for providing more details, as I couldn't quite remember all the particulars. And Kent, I hope my lack of total recall doesn't affect my bid for a position on the Helpline Subcommittee of Random and Useless Facts.

@ Angela, I'd also like to add a "well done" for finding the information on the Hula Hoop lady. In addition to being a Life Strategist, it appears she was of Polish origin and as a result now has her Polish Citizenship and EU Passport. Despite her original plans with the Swiss "boyfriend" not working out, her overall life strategy seems to be in good shape as she's now living in Europe. This has certainly been an interesting and spirited discussion!

Again Angela, great work, I remember that website, nice to see the lady is actually keeping it up. I remember her story too, what always stood out to me was what Norma mentioned, she showed up in Switzerland unannounced, she didn't have much if any money when she arrived hence her posting on this site for guidance and help, he was kind enough not to just send her on her way he let her stay with him until she got her bearings on her next move, but I don't think they interacted with each other if I remember right, that is where all the plans on staying in Europe came out, she was posting quite often while there. Reading her blog is interesting, getting her Polish passport, my favorite line is "free healthcare", one may not have to actually pay for services rendered, but it's not free, someone is paying for it, it's called taxes.

"And Kent, I hope my lack of total recall doesn't affect my bid for a position on the Helpline Subcommittee of Random and Useless Facts." By virtue of your having found the Hula Hoop Lady, you are hereby appointed Chairperson of that Subcommittee.

I am deeply honored, and promise to uphold my new post to the best of my ability. If you ever need minutia(e), look no further.

Oh Angela, and others... So many thanks for the details on the hula hoop lady. She was before my time here and, having heard snippets previously, I have been all agog waiting expectantly for detail; said detail having now been furnished so completely. Many many thanks.... BTW, when we get reverse threading and a decent search engine, maybe we could get message numbering so counting the 100+ messages wouldn't be such a drag.... just hopin'

(having read the blog and seen the hooping for whales photo) It sound to me that although she has posted for over a year about the imminent arrival of the red passport it hasn't actually yet arrived. Or is the arrival somewhere else on the website?

I see that the legend of the Hula-Hoop lady has resurrected. It may sound unbelievable, but I can vouch for the accounts above, that's pretty much how it unfolded on this website. What struck me most was that when she presented her completely unrealistic plan, she immediately lashed out at those on this website (myself included) who pointed out such inconvenient truths as the Schengen Agreement and Switzerland's extremely stringent immigration laws. Her response came across as very "Axis II", for those with any familiarity with psychology... We should not forget her, however, because her case illustrates two very important points. One, although many people on this website have different opinions, when nearly everyone with real knowledge (ie, not Steve, or whatever pseudonym he's using to sneak back on this site) says your plan is a bad idea, it probably is. Two, if we had "just answered" her original question, we would have been advising her how to break the law or exploit a system designed to benefit genuine political refugees. So, thank you Hula-Hoop lady. You have created an enduring legend, and a great fable on how not to travel.

When/if she gets her Polish citizenship, she can be a Pole Dancer for Whales.

(In honor of Peter Falk) Just one more thing. Ed, we're not just answering questions here. This cobbled together community is having an ongoing conversation. So just now we've gone off on a silly but amusing tangent about hula hoops.

Thank you, thank you, Karen, for my first laugh of the day. I don't know how on earth I missed the hula hoop lady, but I'm so glad I've been introduced to her. God bless the hula hoop lady. And, Tom, she's DEFINITELY an Axis II kinda girl.

Karen I am not in the least bothered by the hula hoop discussion. What bothers me is people continuously claiming that because some questions are poorly worded justifies their not bothering to actually reading what others wrote. For example in this thread..... http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/69248/nervous-about-the-language-barrier.html Jo must have read a single sentence of my response and then goes on a rant about my manners because she didn't bother to read the entire response. In which I make it clear.... "I find if I attempt the local language and the other person then says, "I speak English" it works better than if I ask that English be spoken. "

"I didn't really have much to say, cause I already said it, but just wanted to be post #100. Now, if we could only have the website d so you could click on "last page" or "last post", so we wouldn't have to go wading thru this mess." I am risking the wrath of the webmaster (again), but this is really the worst platform for a forum. I'm sure it was great in 1998, but time for an upgrade. The software is not expensive and would make this a much easier board to navigate. Features this board could use: - More subsections (trip reports, packing, trains, planes, tours, etc..) - Better "remember me" so not having to login back in so much - When reentering a thread, going to the newest post - Jo's suggestion quoted above - On the list of threads, name and time of last person commenting - Better search functionality - Ability to click on an author's name and seeing past posts - Ability to click on an author's name and seeing personal details IF someone wants them listed (age, where you have been, travel interests). That is important when reading someone's travel advice. - Like button or some way to flag someone being helpful
- A section for frequently asked questions. I know something like this exists, but it doesn't work in it's current format. There should be a separate subsection with each common question having it's own thread. The ROI for doing this is pretty easily justified. Increased usage and engagement equals increased revenue for RS products. Yes, I have said this all before.

I'm pretty new on the Helpline - arriving well after the hula hoop lady, and thanks for the explanations! - and I so agree with Michael. The travel board I've been visiting for the last five years has almost all the things he's asking for, and it's much easier to use. It's also more fun, with lengthy trip reports - it seems like fewer people report back on how their trips went here.

People don't "report back" here because it's not allowed. This is supposed to be for travel questions only, though you do see trip reports from time to time. It would be nice if some of those changes were instituted (though the time of the most recent post does already appear in the thread list). Over the years I have been here, the helpline has changed and become more of a community (RS himself told me at the Chicago Adventure in Travel show that it was "quite a thriving little community"). A good search would be immensely helpful, though I'm not sure a better FAQ would help, since people don't seem to try there first, anyway.

Steve and A.L. It works both ways. Some years ago I was planning a trip with my daughter to Germany, to meet our German relatives and to see some of my favorite places (in Bavaria, mostly). I posted my itinerary - I'm not sure if it was on this website - and was immediately met with a chorus from self-appointed, faux experts who informed me that I could not do that itinerary without having a car. They didn't know how intricately I plan a trip and how well I know public transportation in Germany, or that I had already found all my transportation for the entire trip. So, this is my major complaint, people who give advice without knowing the facts (like those people telling me I had to have a car, when I had already determined that I didn't). Just because, based on their knowledge they couldn't do that trip without a car, that doesn't mean it can't be done. As far as cars, I have kept detailed accounting of my expenses for the last four trips, including every Euro spent on public transportation and compared it to what I would have spent on a car, using quotes from the source of rental quotes often cited on this site, and I have found the cost of using a car, rental plus fuel, to be 2-3 times what I actually spent on transportation.

Lee: I agree with what you say. We went to Amalfi coast last year and took a morning to go to Pompeii. Several friends said they would NEVER go to Pompeii in the summer as it is too hot. Well gee, our air fare was free (son works for major airline) and our room was paid for by our hosts so I am not going to take the day to go to Pompeii because it is hot??? It would be much better it people on this site said "it would be better" or "have you looked at other options" rather than saying NEVER. Oh well, we can dream can't we??

MS. HULA HOOPS SIGHTING! Every night I watch RS episodes on Hulu (his voice is kind of soothing and I usually fall asleep before the first episode is over - he's better than Unisom) Anywar, to get back on topic, as I was drifting off last night I saw Hula Hoop Lady!!! She's in the Resilient Berlin episode, about 7 mins - 20 secs in.

It's been years since I saw that episode, but I'm guessing that wasn't her. Her saga enfolded on this website a few years after Mr. Steves filmed that episode. She didn't strike me as a particularly seasoned traveler.

Wow, this is one of the longest threads I can remember ever seeing. I will admit that I have not read the entire thing but I plan to. However, I do need some advice: Is it okay to wear shorts while reading this thread if I'm not currently in Europe?

The Lightest roll-on luggage thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. The first response is instructions for doing a web search. The second is one pointing out that wheeled luggage is heavier than luggage without wheels. The third actually suggest a wheeled bag that might be light. The fourth (by the same person who did the second) points out that the bag mention is quite heavy. That person does eventually mention a warning that light weight bag that is not carry on size but is advertised as such. (that post was in my opinion on point because it does help the OP avoid a potential bad purchase) So one out of the first four was actually being helpful. I am willing to be dollars to donuts Dee knew before she posted the message that non wheeled luggage is lighter than wheeled luggage, but for her own reasons wants a wheeled roll-on and among the subset of wheeled luggage wants the lightest. And felt that his community could help her find such a piece of luggage. Mentioning lighter non-wheeled luggage does nothing to help Dee and is nothing more than someone pushing their own "I travel the correct way and anyone who travels differently is doing it wrong" philosophy. Eventually Frank II does provide outstanding information for Dee. So in the end I would say the thread was a success. But I question the need for all the clutter about how wheelless is lighter than wheeled.

Reading this thread is interesting and funny. So, happy to know, finally, about the Hula Hoop Lady. But that the thread does get at what can be a very annoying trait on the Helpline, which is one that we can find it real as well as virtual lives. It happens when we don't listen to what people are saying and pile on lots of unwanted advice. When called on it, we say virtuously, "I was just trying to help." Of course, if someone is really off base, then we need to suggest further research. But many times, it really is just opinion and there are many ways to tour Europe and still have a good time. We don't all have to have a backpack and a point and shoot camera and Keen walking shoes. ; ) We don't all have to take public transportation. The helpline should be about multiple perspectives and how we word our answers to questions can help support that view. I'll give you an example of where I think it's working. Toni, loves to travel the UK by train. She encourages all people going to the UK to consider it. I love to rent a car and travel the small roads of the UK. I like the freedom and I would push as hard as I could for rentals. But I think that Toni and I have both modified our approaches. I talk about when it's good to have a car and when the rail would work as I have done both. Toni talks about trains and suggests contacting me for info about car rental. I like to think that between the two of us we get posters to think more about what they want to see and do first and then look at transportation. So, here's to more careful listening and being thoughtful in our answers. ; ) Pam

No, the woman in the Rick Steves video isn't OUR hula hoop lady. Ours was 40-ish (at the time), with long dark wavy/curly hair. This woman isn't even remotely similar.

Is it okay to wear shorts while reading this thread if I'm not currently in Europe? Yes, Frank II, you may ... but only if they cover your knees when you go into church. Apologies to OP as neither Frank II's nor my posting answer the question. It does seem though that we may be approaching a resolution. Its like any good staff meeting, maybe it should soon draw to a close, but then I want to see us break 10 pages and 250 posts. At least in this format we can have dinner and come back, its not like we have to leave a bricks and mortar office to go home.