Who do you blame, the airline or the passenger?

My answer: Both.

Same response as Robert.

Agree, both. The airlines usually don’t allow this so I wonder how she got by. But, I sit on the aisle and during boarding I am in a defensive position-eyes on the incoming traffic, knees in, hands ready to deflect, no cell phone distraction. I learned the hard way and the worst offenders by far are folks with backpacks. They turn as if it’s not there and whack, you get it in the face!

Personally it is about 60/40 with most on the airline. Either your have rules or you don't. And you either enforce them or you don't. I personally would vote for fairly strict enforcement but the airlines worry about customer relations.

People who aren't used to carrying bags on a bus or train or tram are probably more likely to fail to attend to this aspect of getting settled in their seats, so the eco-friendly solution to this pesky problem isn't just to encourage the airlines to enforce their rules but to do everything we can to eliminate personal/private automobile ownership and replace it with mass transit. The move away from cars can't happen quickly enough and we all know the benefits it will bring and the hell-on-earth that it will delay, and now here we have another to add to the list: if you're accustomed to getting around on mass transit you're less likely to be an annoyance to people traveling on the same conveyances.

Both.

If that woman had swung her bag and hit me, she would have heard a few choice words.

Both...I also choose aisle seats and sit at the ready during boarding--any backpacks or bags that come at my face get pushed back with varying degrees of vigor, depending on if it's the first or 5th transgression...

AFAIK cabin crew aren’t paid/ on the clock, until the door shuts, so the overpackers are costing the cabin crew unpaid time. Therefore, the gate personnel need to get on it. If I’m wrong about the work rules, please let me know.

avirosemail, you nailed it!!!

Count me in the "both" camp although I really do dislike being smacked in the head by someone um...'unaware' they have a backpack on their back more than anything. The spinners have made progress down the aisles a bit easier on passengers already seated, though. If I have an aisle seat, I try to remain standing until just about everyone has boarded. I do think it would be a good thing if the airlines did a little more to adhere to their own carry on rules, though.

Both - except for the passengers who can't lift their carry-ons and expect someone else to do it for them. That's why I check my bag when I'm traveling alone. That's a particular pet peeve of mine, along with flight crews who can't or won't count what people are bringing on the plane.

Both as well, however, I am more inclined to find fault with the passenger since they knowingly engaged in the behavior, whereas the airline may have let the passenger unknowingly get by (although how do you get by without notice with four bags). Not only is she causing a disturbance, but taking away from others’ storage needs. Not cool.

This New Yorker cover , by Bruce McCall , from 2012 , sums it up best - https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-opeLImhDYW0/T4KaZ_HoHrI/AAAAAAAAomQ/OC3bkHsTa1I/s0/ny_2012_04_16.jpg

The airlines usually don’t allow this

I nearly spewed my tea all over my computer.

Not sure which airline you fly, but it seems (among the US based airlines anyway) that if you can get it through the x-ray at security and then drag it to the plane, it qualifies as carry on no matter what the airline claims to be its restrictions.

The airlines don't want to annoy their frequent flyers (i.e. source of profit) by restricting them to the stated limits because they will just go to a different airline next flight that isn't so strict. So they don't stop anyone from dragging their entire worldly possessions onto the plane until there are no more open spaces in the overhead. Which then means the last few onto the plane are forced to gate check their legal carryons which there should be room for if the rules had been enforced.

And if you can't lift whatever bag you have into the bins, check it. No excuses, no gripes, just check it. You and everyone else on your flight all be happier. I am recovering from some medical issues where I could not lift anything over my head (better now!). So I checked my bag my last few flight. Hated it, especially the time wasted at my destination waiting at baggage claim. But I was not going to expect some one on the plane to lift my bag for me.

steven,

Yeah. I think I was on that exact flight. :-)

hey hey
@ steven
thanks for the laugh
aloha

OP -- was it Delta? I see ridiculously large pieces of luggage rolled on its planes.

SNL skit (if you haven't seen it): https://youtu.be/DptGBVPnvKE?t=75

Fox News recently did a story on this and polled their viewers. Thirty percent blamed the passenger. Forty percent blamed the airline. The rest blamed Obama.

Yeah Mark, I’m seeing it though a narrow prism called Southwest. I’ve flown over 100K miles per year for many years and they allow two pieces only. Gotta third? Squeeze it in one of the others or it gets gate checked. Some of the rollers get by and they are clearly too big, that seems to be over the last year or two. But the flights are full, they get everyone on, and few of the C boarders have to check a bag. I think the fact that they allow a checked bag for free and they have a unique way of boarding gets a good on time record and infrequent delays due to idiots who can’t manage their own luggage.

Both, but more so on the passengers who are think they deserve to flaunt the rules at the expense of others. I also agree with Avirosemail, but also think the airlines should have passengers remove their backpacks before they enter the plane. Also, I definitely agree that if you can't lift your bag into the overhead bin, you need to check your bag. Period. Checking is just not that big a deal, inconvenient to some extent, but if they can't follow the rules, then they should be forced to do it. IMO

I always sit in an aisle seat and in addition to watching out for falling luggage as it's lifted into the overhead bin, I watch to make sure the bin has been properly closed. Years ago my cousin had her 2 month old infant on a flight, and a businessman dropped his briefcase on the baby's head. Needless to say she insisted on getting off of the flight and going to the hospital. I'm not sure she pushed the airline hard enough to pay for her hospital bill though. She was traveling from Boston to San Francisco so a long flight.

I would add the woman's parents to list of 'who to blame' for raising such a rude, inconsiderate, self centered jerk.

Mostly passenger. I use a backpsck as my carry on and it's honestly not hard at all to move it to 'kangaroo' position while you're in line on the jet bridge waiting to get on the plane.

I get hit in the head with backpacks all the time sitting on trains, thus doubt that people change their rude behavior just because they are on a plane.
My last time flying, I thought I was going to able to lift up my carry-on bag, but because my broken wrist hasn't healed properly, I couldn't. This was a surprise for me. Fortunately, someone helped me.

at any point in time the world is around 80% stupid and that seems to go up to about 95% when it come to travel.
For years now with the rise of Low cost carriers in Europe we have got used to One Bag and a set weight rules and as I travel with LCC's most of the time I generally see the vast majority of travellers obeying the rules but you will always get the idiots ,a recent flight on your boarding cards you were told to board either front or rear door depending on your seat number, pretty simple as at the gate they even told you what door to use but still you get the idiots going in the front doors with seats towards the rear and buggering the whole process up.
Carriers do have a responsibility to enforce their rules and in Europe most of the time they do but the time has come for all carriers to do so.
Travellers also have a responsibility to adhere to rules but given the number of queries on forum like Trip Advisor Air travel forum many folk seem to think rules don't apply to them.

I hate rucksacks/backpacks! No-one wearing one appears to have the sense to acknowledge they've got one on their back and are constantly whacking into people, it drives me mad. They're intended for use out hiking not to wear in crowded places, planes, trains etc.

The problem is a combination of airlines charging to check luggage and people too tight to pay to check their luggage. I've given up helping women lift their overweight luggage into the overhead bins, if you can't lift it then you're carrying too much. I've experienced far too many delayed departures because of selfish people bringing too much baggage on board and my patience with them has worn excessively thin. Aircraft overhead bins are not designed to accommodate the amounts of luggage being brought on, they should restrict items to one holdhall/laptop bag/handbag per person and everything else gets checked in. Don't want to wait at the carousel? Tough. Don't want to risk losing your luggage? Tough, it's a low risk anyway.

As you can tell it's a pet peeve of mine.....rant over.

The airlines usually don’t allow this so I wonder how she got by.

I don't recall ever seeing anybody getting stopped at the gate because of too much luggage. I've heard some stories on this forum about tough restrictions on the low cost carriers but I've never flown on one, but on my usual airlines...Air Canada, WestJet, British Airways and United, not once have I observed it being enforced. It's because of this that I tend to shift more of the blame to the airlines for not enforcing its own rules.

Hi Allan, I think it’s an issue of ‘situational awareness’. Folks are operating in their own little worlds and apparently don’t give a darn about anyone else. I was traveling solo on a flight to to Europe last year and got smacked in the head by a backpack, hard. I saw stars and honestly thought I had a concussion. The person just gave me a dirty look like I was in his way. Silly me, minding my own business in my aisle seat.

Who should we blame? I think that it goes further back, to the airlines for creating the situation in the first place. Their decision to charge for checking bags, encouraged people to carryon. Then, by letting people get away with exceeding the carryon rules for so long, the crowd mentality recognizes that they can be safely ignored and be rewarded for it. In this case, there are two different offenses: airline for not enforcing their rules; the passenger for being a bad traveler.

Excess carryon is my pet peeve. What angers me is when someone has the allowed two bags (including an oversized personal item) and then puts both in the overhead, a duty-free bag, and maybe a coat and purse on top that.

What I don't understand is the airlines' collective indifference to this problem. I used to fly a certain regional airline regularly, who made a big deal of answering customer complaints about carryon space, by announcing larger bins. Guess what: people started bringing larger things, and there was effectively no change.

I use a backpack most of the time, but I am wary enough to carry it in front of me by the straps when boarding an aircraft. Seemed obvious. I'm often willing to help people who are obviously struggling, but I dislike the snarling demands for help by some people.

I'm often willing to help people who are obviously struggling,

If you've ever helped my wife, I thank you. She's 5' tall and putting anything overhead is a struggle if I'm not there to help. In the infrequent times she flies alone she checks a bag because she's unable to put it above. Because of my awareness for the vertically challenged, I too will help when needed.

We travel quite a bit, including usually two overseas trips a year. Since the airlines charge for checked luggage, many people load up with carry on stuff and frequently hope that the airlines offer the last minute check you bag as well.

I am tall and not small and always pick an aisle seat. I have been hit with back packs, bags and more. Most people don't mean to do that, but aren't polite enough to change their behavior.

Yes, it is both the airline and some of the passengers.

Still, all you have to do to get free checked luggage is have a credit card from the airline, like the Delta AmEx sky miles card.

Further, I once used a back pack and found that I accidentally bumped people, so I was more careful. Also, eventually, I packed less and stopped taking carryon luggage.

Another issue is that contrary to the way our culture was decades ago, men would always offer to assist a woman in carrying or lifting something like a suitcase. This still happens, but not as frequently as it should. I am 71 and was taught to do this, so I frequently ask if I can assist, when a woman needs help with a suitcase. Sometimes, women look at me like I am trying to take advantage of them. I guess they aren't used to that kind of offer.

That New Yorker cover referenced by Steven is very inaccurate. The aisle shown is about 3 times wider than an actual airplane aisle.

Another issue is that contrary to the way our culture was decades ago, men would always offer to assist a woman in carrying or lifting something like a suitcase. This still happens, but not as frequently as it should.

Women want equality so that means they can place their luggage in the overhead bins. If it's too heavy don't pack so much. What would I expect if I made my case so heavy that I couldn't lift it into the bin?

That doesn't mean that helpfulness has gone out of the window. Yesterday I towed a young girl's car out of some mud that she inadvertently got stuck in. There was no way she was going to get it out on her own and was just about to call for a tow company who would have charged her £300. I have a 4x4, offered to pull her out and did so without a problem. She offered me money, I refused and told her that it was my good deed for the day.

I hold shop doors open for people behind me, more often than not I receive thanks but most of the people I receive no thanks for are the elderly, perhaps expectation and entitlement prevents it.

If on a train I would offer my seat to a pregnant woman or the elderly or someone with a disability (if obvious), I wouldn't offer it to a woman simply because she's a woman, would the reverse hold true? Treating women as the weaker sex and needing pandering to is outdated and patronising.

a iris mail, if you rode the NYC subways you would be whacked by backpacks and find illegally unboxed animals everywhere. Manners and consideration are more important than whale-hugging. Also, parents who sometimes say, "NO" to their always above-average children.

I fly frequently, some 100 legs last year, and I do think that Check-in and Gate agents try to use "gentle" pressure, but for the big 3 airlines, they are not yet willing to go the route of hard enforcement. About the only tactic they have is to valet check or gate check carryon size bags, other smaller items likely would not be put in the hold.

However, if they did do a hard limit, all you have to do is search this board to see the complaints of people who have ran afoul of European carriers (both main and low cast) to see how it would go over. Not sure they are prepared for that storm.

As an example, at my airport, my Delta check-in is next to the Allegiant one, every time there are people with bags open, ditching stuff (There should be a Goodwill drop off right there), combining items, you name it...I'm sure some have gone off and came back looking about 20 lbs heavier due to layers of clothes to lighten the bag. None of the majors want that scene.

RIGHT ON! JC

oh man I didn't know Obama was choice to blame .... :)

OK seriously - yes the airlines created this mess to a certain extent but there have always been people who won't check their bags even before the airlines began charging.

People know the rules and those people who tend to think "its all about them" will always break the rules. Those people who tend to think "it's the good of the whole" probably less likely to intentionally break the rules. Or swing their backpacks right into my head when I sit on the aisle.

I usually have a checked bag, I often don't use "my" carry on space in the overhead bin but it corks me when my bin has been filled before I get on board. I have enough status on a couple airlines to board early and I buy premium economy seats which also allow me to board early. Who are those people???

Just heard the bang and the apologies today as some guy's black hard-sided carry on hit a little old lady in the head. Timely subject. Window seat anyone?

I’m seeing it though a narrow prism called Southwest

Yes, Southwest is one of the few who enforce the carry on limits (at least on most of their flights). Frontier is another (they really like to charge their $100 gate check fee).

Since you can check a bag or 2 for free on Southwest, most of their flights I have been on have little or no issues with overhead space. I would fly them more often if they assigned seats. I hate running between tight connections and, even having a low A boarding number ending up stuck in a middle seat because I am the last one on. But, I guess I am one of the few who have this complaint. So I only fly non stop on Southwest or have extra long connection times which get me to my connecting airport long before boarding the next flight starts.

Sam , I think the artist was invoking late renaissance perspective in his interpretation . In any event , here is the solution to luggage on a flight - https://youtu.be/pG2Ywyynsrc

All this sounds like "variations on a theme" to use a music reference.

How often have I seen this scene played out but luckily I have never been wracked in the head or shoulder by someone's backpack.

In this above example I blame the woman. How long did she have to wait for help to have her carry-on lifted into the bin? She packed it, she lifts it...all of it.

My inclination is to blame both the airlines and the passengers. If there are rules, the airlines should enforce them. I have seen that happen to people in the waiting area before the flight is even close to boarding. And passengers should learn the rules in advance and abide by them.

When I'm able to choose my seat, I always pick one on the aisle. So far I've never been hit (knocking wood here), but if I was hit, I expect my reaction would include a loud OUCH and a few choice expletives.

I most often fly standby. Carry on is the only option because there's no guarantee of getting on the plane. All my "big" bags are 22x14x9 or smaller. All will go into most overhead bins vertically on their sides. I keep the fully packed weight down to 20 pounds or less.

I'm a firm believer that if I can't manage my carry on, including putting it in the overhead bin and taking it out, I shouldn't be traveling. I have never asked for help. But, full disclosure, I have accepted help when it was offered. Must be the gray hair.

When I have to pay for my flight, I'll check my bag only if it's a nonstop. So I'll probably use and check my Eagle Creek bag like this on my Aer Lingus RT flight Seattle to Dublin in May.

My only carry on will probably be my RS Appenzell with my little purse inside it along with warm clothes for the plane and arrival. I anticipate starting out in dry Tucson where it will be in the low 90's and arriving in Dublin where it will be in the low 50's and damp.

The Appenzell will go at my feet and not in an overhead bin. Thanks for reminding me to watch my back -- pack.

Then I have the temerity to travel as a woman! I mean how dare I attempt to travel in an environment designed by men for men and then struggle with some of its features! Let’s just say if more male designers were 5ft4 or under you can lay bets that lockers on planes would be a lot easier to manage. But no, my struggle to get my bag in a locker is actually a cunning feminist ruse to oppress the patriarchy.

Oh dear Emma, I'm afriad I'm going to take the rare step of disagreeing with you on this one. Are you sure all airline interiors are designed entirely by men? I mean, really sure? Do you think those who are desigining it are doing so in order to make life difficult for short women? I mean, they could make the overhead bins much lower meaning most people would be unable to stand or even get to the window seat just to accommodate short people.

If you struggle to lift your bag into the overhead bins then accept that checking it in is your only option. There are challenges for most people the world over and nothing is perfect. But lets also not forget those who have disabilities that are not so obvious. I have terrible PTSD as a result of my former police work and as a result I suffer extreme anxiety. Flying is bad enough and I have an obsession with punctuality that borders on an OCD level so when I observe people bringing on ridiculous amounts of baggage that they then struggle to fit in the overhead bins and which inevitably results in a delayed departure it takes a very heavy toll on me and requires significant restraint. I don't single out a particular sex, they're both as bad. I check my luggage because usually it's too big to carry on or I cannot deal with the stress of not being able to find space to put it once on board. On the rare occasions I fly intra-Europe for a long weekend and I'm flying business class I will probably bring a carry on because I know I'll be boarding first and I'll be guaranteed space for my (within the required dimensions) suitcase.

Having a disability is a terrible burden however I don't ever expect anyone else to relieve that burden. On occasions when people do offer assistance, either because they know me or I'm with my assistance dog, then it's gratefully received but I never expect it or begrudge people for not offering assistance. I know from previous posts that you share such a view in relation to your own disability so I'm somewhat surprised by your post on this occasion.

I'm afraid the notion of chivalry is fast fading these days not least because it's become such a minefield. Will offering to lift a woman's bag into the overhead bin simpy because she's female and therefore 'the weaker sex' be taken as a compliment or viewed as out of touch sexism? In a world where equality has reached every aspect of life is there any reason to cling on to age old patronisation? If I could see that someone was struggling to place their carry on into the overhead bin because of an obvious inability to do so, either an injury, disability or genuinely because they simply can't reach then most likely I would offer to help but I'm not going to do so simply because they're a woman, that's insulting and patronising.

Then I have the temerity to travel as a woman! I mean how dare I
attempt to travel in an environment designed by men for men and then
struggle with some of its features! Let’s just say if more male
designers were 5ft4 or under you can lay bets that lockers on planes
would be a lot easier to manage. But no, my struggle to get my bag in
a locker is actually a cunning feminist ruse to oppress the
patriarchy.

I guess in the same context then, seating and legroom must have been designed by women for women under 5'4".

As someone 5 ft, getting any carryon in an overhead bin is a challenge. I try to do it mostly myself but I have asked for help if needed and someone has always stepped in. If people think my 2 minutes of getting my carryon in the bin is terrible than tough. As for backpacks, riding on the subway is much much worse. I have had to literally hold someone's backpack because they didn't take it off and they keep turning and smacking me in the face.

I do blame the passengers who are in row 50 but put their luggage in bin 25 so they can get out faster. Really? That just means more people blocking aisles to go get their luggage. The most obnoxious one was the lady in economy who tried to put her luggage in premium economy-a separate cabin.

Well, if I had to I suppose I’d blame the airlines. What good does it do to blame inconsiderate jerks who flaunt rules as if they do not apply to them? If the carriers have rules, they should be enforced. What I really don’t get is the horrific aversion to checking a bag, especially on international flights where the cost of the first bag is usually nil. I often wonder how much time each flight spends on the ground while folks jam the aisles and cram stuff all over the place, both boarding and deplaning, as compared to the few minutes actually spent waiting at the luggage carousel.

I entirely blame the passenger. Decent people don't need specific rules to behave properly and, when there are sensible rules, they don't need someone else to enforce them before they comply.

What I really don’t get is the horrific aversion to checking a bag,
especially on international flights where the cost of the first bag is
usually nil.

Because you are a tourist, not a traveler. A traveler can go on 6 week trip with nothing more than a 4kg bag that fits under the seat in front of them. Oh, I'm a tourist too....

If your are on a 300 seat airline and six jerks bean you or someone else on the head then 2% of the passengers are jerks. Maybe half that if 3 really tried to be considerate and just came up a bit short. 1% or 2% I dont see as a problem.

Oh, and it's their fault, as we are all responsible for our actions. No one else.

What I really don’t get is the horrific aversion to checking a bag,
especially on international flights where the cost of the first bag is
usually nil.

Spoken like someone who has never had a bag gone astray or lost. It can be very impactful. Take it from one who learned the hard way. The only checked bags in my world are on the way home.

Actually, it has happened...a few times. We’ve been lost/delayed/delivered but over the years it has been a very, very small percentage. We aren’t really light packers, we know it and we get by so far.

Spoken like someone who has never had a bag gone astray or lost. It can be very impactful.

Fortunately it's never happened to me and even my wife, who flies every week has only experienced it once. I think the fear is greater than the reality.

Then I have the temerity to travel as a woman! I mean how dare I attempt to travel in an environment designed by men for men and then struggle with some of its features! Let’s just say if more male designers were 5ft4 or under you can lay bets that lockers on planes would be a lot easier to manage.

My online friend who designs cabin environmental systems for one of the Big Two aircraft manufacturers is female. So they're there.

I'm 5'9" so higher bin space is better for me. Especially since I've mostly spent my life in tertiary airport areas where the flight to the Big City Hub is often on what the Flyer Talk crew call 'Barbie's Dream Jet'. I can't stand up fully in an Embraer 135/145. I have learned that lesson the hard way by trying and bashing my head on the edge of the overhead bins had enough to see stars.

I've also spent a decent stretch hefting my husband's backpack up into the bin for him because he managed to mess up his rotator cuff carrying a lot of camera gear in his pack on a photo and hiking trip to Utah a few years back.

I've had a checked bag misplaced by an airline a few times at this point; they've always showed up 2-12 hours after I did and for the more than 2 hour bag delay, they've been delivered to where I asked them to go.

Passengers are completely to blame. Not the airlines.

The dismal state of air travel these days is 100% driven by what the public demands: impossibly low fares, with no consideration for anything else. The airlines are just giving the public exactly what they repeatedly demonstrate that they want: dirt-cheap flights, and nothing else matters - nothing. To deliver those crazy cheap tickets, they have to cut corners (and all other unnecessary frills, like the circulation in your legs). Until the flying public stops demanding ever-lower prices (not likely), the trend will continue. Oh, the Wisdom of Crowds.

Enjoy that flight now.

Another reason the airlines like most business should be nationalized. First Class and Business Class should be eliminated and the space given to one working class cabin where everyone has equal access at prices cheaper than now. Since we all say travel is an educational endeavor, the government has an obligation to subsidize the cost. Everyone should have identical modular luggage. One person, one piece.
Naaaaa, dumb idea.

Highly amusing, James.

At nearly 72 years of age, I can remember flying prior to deregulation in the late 70s. Fares were the same for all airlines, and competition was to provide the best flight.
Yes, seats were larger, people were slimmer, flight attendants were beauty queens and service was great. HOWEVER, fares were far more expensive than they are today.

I remember going to visit family in Texas and taking the Greyhound bus from Georgia, what a nightmare. I couldn't afford the airfare.
I had friends in college that planned a trip to Spain in 1969. The RT airfare was going to be almost $500 for a tourist fare ticket from Atlanta.

At that time, the minimum wage was $1.25 per hour and you could buy a new car for less than $4000. I entered the US Army as a Second Lt. in 1972 and was paid about $320 per month, before taxes. That same fare in 1969 would be comparable to about $2500.
I am sure the flight then was better, most people didn't take a lot of carryon luggage.

Still, I will take the current situation now over the government regulated high cost of 1969.

When it comes to rule breaking I think women hold a slight edge. Maybe not of the weight or size but in quantity of bags, purses, shopping bags, etc....

I offer to help people lift their luggage to the overhead compartment when they are obviously shorter and/or with less upper body strength. And I also offer to do it when the person looks at their bag, then at the bin, then back at their bag with something less than enthusiasm. In both instances more often than not its a woman. Oh, and I also offer to help if she is really attractive. Go ahead, shoot me.

Emma, fair argument.

I'd blame the passenger first and foremost. I have often been in the aisle seat. Everyone whacks you with their bag as they pass unless you lean as far as possible into the person sitting beside you. It's even worse if they're paused to put up a bag overhead. I understand the situation.

The first time I flew on a plane, it took me a moment to figure out how to manage my stuff so that nobody else was impacted because the aisles are narrow. Carrying bags and making sure that you don't inconvenience anyone takes practice, but after that first flight I felt more aware and tried even more not to inconvenience anyone else.

As a short person, I can put a light bag overhead. (Picture a little woman doing a jump shot with a small suitcase.) That's all I pack for the overhead bin. Anything else goes under the seat or is checked. I have had airlines lose my checked luggage multiple times. And for all the people that this never happens to them - well, all I can say is lucky you. I pack far lighter now as a result, so perhaps there is an upside in my own story.

But I try my hardest to make sure I never bother anyone else. And if - God forbid - I do, then I apologize profusely. My problems should not be yours.

Everything international flight I've done, ie, SFO to Europe or to Canada, I always have luggage to be checked in, whether the first bag is free or not. I don't fly to Europe or to the east coast, without checking in the spinner...unthinkable.

The duffel / shoulder sack is the one allowed carry-on, which sometimes has to be placed in a bin 2-3 rows away from my seat thanks to those hogging spaces. Those carry-on rules allow me one, I just take only one for that expressed purpose. Those ignoring the rules as in the above example, I don't help

I blame three parties:

1) The passenger. You should not bring a carry on bag you cannot lift by yourself. Check it. The only exception is for small children traveling with an adult. You cannot bring more than one personal item. If you can’t follow those rules, pay for first class.

2) The airline for not enforcing their own rules. This includes the rule of only one piece of luggage in the overhead bin. I’m so sick of people putting their suitcase AND their backpack AND their laptop bag AND their jacket in the overhead bin. And having nothing under the seat in front of them. I sat next to someone who did this on our last flight. My husband (in the seat next to me) boarded a few minutes after me (due to secondary screening at the gate) and had no place for his carryon with all her stuff in the overhead bin. I got up and pulled everything except her suitcase down and put them on her lap.

3) The person who ended up putting her too-heavy suitcase up for her. Stop enabling people. There is a time to be nice, and a time to hold people accountable for their own insensitivity to others.

Well, if the airlines enforced their rules there wouldn’t be a problem. Rules mean nothing if not enforced.

That's it. That's all I carry. That's all I need. It takes up two pockets. My wife, when wearing jeans, has the same number of pockets as I do, those pockets have the same capacity, there's no reason why she can't travel the same as I do.

One word: tampons.

Maybe not in the OP's example, but if someone is carrying a C-Pap machine, it very well may be in a third carry-on bag, which is allowed since it is a medical device.

Judging by the comments that stuck to the topic, both airlines and passengers have to share the blame. I had initially wanted to blame the airlines for not enforcing the rules, but this comment got me nodding in agreement that consumer demands set the market.

The dismal state of air travel these days is 100% driven by what the
public demands: impossibly low fares, with no consideration for
anything else. The airlines are just giving the public exactly what
they repeatedly demonstrate that they want: dirt-cheap flights, and
nothing else matters - nothing. To deliver those crazy cheap tickets,
they have to cut corners (and all other unnecessary frills, like the
circulation in your legs). Until the flying public stops demanding
ever-lower prices (not likely), the trend will continue.

I've thought about this comment for many big box stores as well.. We blame them for low wages for employees, poor customer service and other such things, but at the same time we demand the lowest prices above all else. No different than what we demand from the airlines.

Yup.

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."

What about all those men who refuse to carry a bag because it’s “unmanly”?

Are you talking about a man purse, or a suitcase?

I have never needed an extra bag for my normal daily items: keys, wallet, cash, cell phone. That's it. I carry nothing else on a regular basis and have never needed to. If it is rainy I will have an umbrella. If I am on a work assignment, I will carry my computer bag as needed. Even on tours I find it difficult to justify carrying a day bag because I really have nothing to put in it.

I know many men who wear cargo pocketed trousers because their wives insist they cary all of their stuff too so they don't have to carry a purse. Yes, this is because of the lack of usable pockets in women's fashion.

My initial response was the airlines because we’ve all seen too many passenger flout the rules without consequences, but...how many times have we seen airline staff try to enforce the rules and get berated. The boots-on-the-ground staff are under pressure to get the plane loaded and in the air as fast as possible and I’d bet the last thing they want is a time-consuming, hostile encounter. I can check a bag for free so I usually take advantage of that, thereby giving someone else space and not endangering the life of anyone around me when I try to hoist a bag over my head.

Has anyone noticed that not all under-the-seat storage is equal? Sometimes there’s a metal box taking up room, which limits how much you can fit under.

The passenger. The passenger is well aware of the rules and doesn’t care about how not following them will affect the people around them.

This same behavior unfortunately occurs in many more situations than just plane travel, and we’re probably all guilty of it in some situation where we feel personally justified.

I have had the opportunity to read through all the comments on this thread. For me, the one that stands out was David’s profound quote. “BE the change that you wish to see the world.” I think the word blame evokes an emotional response. Hence, we all need to take responsibility for our actions. Lead by example?

Blaming the " third party " as listed to above...good point. Yes, there is a time to be "nice" as there is a time to be chivalrous.

I don't wear cargo pants, not my style, not needed. I don't want those vulnerable extra pockets anyway in a cargo pants.

If you are going to use words like "man purse", then continue on with "man jeans" and "man jackets". Clothing for women seldom has useful pockets, if any at all. Plus, the last place I want to put my phone or wallet is in the pocket of my jeans, not in the front nor back. Can you believe that they make dress jackets for women with fake pockets or pockets on trousers that are an inch or two long? Why???? Absolutely useless.

Now, onto that funny label - man-purse. Good lord, just call it a satchel or a messenger bag. Get one that looks like an ammo pouch if you are too worried that wearing some sort of bag is doing something to your manly virality. Carry your guidebook, water, wallet and phone in this bag. That is all that is in my bag, other than perhaps my glasses and some tissues. It is a messenger bag, worn cross-body so I never worry about theft/pick-pockets and I never hit anyone in the head on the plane or on trains. Plus it fits nicely under my seat.

Hi, I believe its the passenger not using her common sense and courtesy towards others.
When I am in an aisle seat I always feel like a professional boxer trying to avoid being hit. I rarely look at the magazines or check my phone one last time until everybody has sat down. If you don't watch it, you will get a backpack or other bag in your face.
I have to admit, a plane is not the most spacious place to be....

Now, onto that funny label - man-purse. Good lord, just call it a satchel or a messenger bag. Get one that looks like an ammo pouch if you are too worried that wearing some sort of bag is doing something to your manly virality

I haven't read anything from any man on here that claimed not to want to carry a bag for fear of degrading their masculinity, where did that come from? I used to carry a messenger bag to work, it didn't have much in it....just my lunch most of the time.

As for a "man purse" it's simply called a wallet in the UK. Women have purses, men have wallets. Both are used to hold money and cards. In addition women also have handbags, shoulder bags and a plethora of other styles all ranging in sizes.

You can all blame Friends for how man-bag or man purse became somewhat derogatory (but let's have a sense of humour about it)

From GQ "Men might have had bags for centuries, but the first time most of us would have really been introduced to the idea of the "man-bag" was in 1999 thanks to Friends. During an episode aptly called "The One with Joey's Bag", Joey buys a leather tote only to have the piss royally ripped out of him as his behaviour becomes more and more feminine while he carried it"

See also The Hangover "Even into the first decade of the twentieth century, men’s bags continue to be seen as a bit of a joke - exclusively reserved for the most metrosexual of men. 2009 was the year Zach Galifianakis donned a satchel as Alan in The Hangover because “Indiana Jones has one”. This comes much to the amusement of Bradley Cooper’s character, Phil, who dubs it a "man purse" (ironically, this would also become "a thing" in a few years thanks to Cristiano Ronaldo). Despite this, Alan continues to proudly wear his satchel throughout the film."

And just google Seinfeld and the 'murse'

The More You Know ;)

I am brilliant because I have a solution to the backpacks whacking people. At the gate there should be posters and announcements that backpacks must be carried by hand or worn on the front. That's what museums require. Slackers get a reminder when boarding passes are checked. This will soon become habit and we'll only get hit by falling bags. Side benefit- having to carry a bag means people will have fewer hands and will finish their coffee before they board.

Now, I'm off to design some posters and sell them to Delta. Gonna make a million dollars.

@Karen, love your proactive approach. Thank you for looking for a solution. I will be looking forward to your signs on my upcoming flight on Delta. Yes, brilliant!