Whirlwind Europe Tour

What size backpacks would you consider medium? We are planning on just doing the backpacks, but I have been looking at 65 L ones, what size do you recommend?

My packing guide is it must fit into 2 paper grocery bags for a 2 week trip. If it doesnt fit, I dont need it. With your ambitious schedule and the amount of walking, tranfers etc you will have, I would take the absolute minimum. I am not sure if its Rick Steves or some other travel person that basically says lay out everything you will need for two weeks. After doing so, cut it in half and you will be getting close.

Chantielle - DEFINITELY pre-book your hotels. The only reason not to pre book is for people who don't want to be locked into an itinerary. With your heart set on seeing so many cities, and since you obviously do enjoy the planning ahead, go ahead an bite the bullet and get your hotel rooms. You won't spend time looking for a room and you're more likely to get a nicer place for the price you are willing to pay.

So - comments on your itin - I assume that in some cases when you say you are "seeing" things you mean walking by them - and that is perfectly fine for buildings like Big Ben. We have "seen" Big Ben and Parliment by walking by - there, saw it. It might help you if you make a note of the MAIN places you want to see in a city, including which places you actually want to get into. I was 19 when I saw Dover, Paris, the Loire Valley and Madrid all in 7 days, traveling by train. And now I've been back.

My personal recs, based on what you listed:

Skip the daytrip to Stonehenge & Bath,- either concentrate on London or add a day later (maybe to Venice?)

London - go inside Westminster Abbey, St. Pauls, Tower of London - those are our favorites. See a show 2nd or 3rd night.

Paris - I think you'll mainly be doing a walking trip for one day. Personally, I'd skip the Louvre, especially if your husband doesn't like museums. Too big, too overwhelming - go to the Musee d'Orsay instead.

Venice - if you really only want one night...

From Rome on you actually do seem to slow it down to a more reasonable pace with LOTS of time in Madrid, from where we just returned - LOVED it!

All in all, I don't think this is too bad - you've got 2-3 nights in most the cities, which really means 1-2 days of sightseeing in each. The only thing I would caution you against is to not be too disappointed if you end up not following your daily schedule. You may end up sitting in a little cafe instead of going to the Opera House - how bad would that be!

Chantielle- I didn't respond originally because I knew I would just be telling you what you didn't want to hear-- slow down. You seem committed to doing this very quickly. While I like Bath and Stonehenge, I agree that cutting that trip would serve you better. I'd suggest doing a 1/2 day trip by train to Windsor- tour the castle and grounds and wander the town a bit. Then go back to London and do some wandering around Covent Garden, Leciester Square, Picadilly, etc. and get theatre tickets that night. We have usee Rick's suitcase/backpack as our only bags for more than 20 years. We did an around the world trip for hubby's 50th birthday with only 1 suitcase each and a day bag. They are the perfect size for travel such as yours. If you need packing suggesstions, feel free to let us know and we'll all chip in advice!(lol) Good luck on your ambitious trip. Do let us know how it goes. Aslo- DO book hotels in advance, you have not included enough time to be "looking" for rooms.

Be ready to roll with the punches, punches that could wreak havoc on your itinerary, such as illness (e.g. the tourist trots) and transportation strikes or other labour disruptions.

Not enough room in the question, here is the rest of the itenerary.

5/27: Eurostar to Paris arrive 8:50 am
Place De la concorde
jardin dus tuileries
Ile de la cite
Notre Dame
Eiffel Tower
Arc du Triomphe
Seine River Cruise (Paris Illuminations)

5/28: Louvre Museum
Montmartre Operal House
anything we didn't get to yesterday :)

Overnight train to Venice arrive 9:30 am at S. Lucia

5/29:
St. Mark's Square and Basilica
Clock Tower
Guggenhiem's House
Doge's palace
Bridge of Sighs

5/30: am train to Rome arrive 10am

Buy the Roma pass R.S. recommends
colosseum
forum
palatine hill
circus maximus
trevi fountain and spanish steps
trivoli gardens

5/31: Vatican city
St. Peter's Basilica
Vatican museum
Roman Baths: can anyone give me more info on where we should check these out? Everything I see says they are right next to the train stations, but that is all I see and know.

6/1:
morning trip to Ostia Antica
fly to Barcelona 5:45 pm

check out night life in Barcelona: tips?

6/2: Sagrada Familia Church
Guell Park
Diagonal Alley shopping
Ramblas walk
Gothic Quarter

6/3: La Ribera area:
Pablo Picasso museum
Chocolate museum
waterfront/beach fun: ideas?

train to Madrid late afternoon/evening whenever we are ready to leave 2.5 hour train ride
Depending on what time we arrive do a tapas (pub) crawl, if not do this tomorrow.

6/4:
Welcome to Madrid self guided walk
Royal Palace
Plaza de Espana: quixote statue
Puerta del Sol
Cibeles fountain
Plaza Mayor

6/5:
walk Puerta del Sol to the Prado
Prado Museum

6/6 fly out of Madrid at 12:30 in the afternoon

What do you think? Hostel or hotel recommendations?

This is our first time to Europe so we really have no idea what to expect, so please tell me what I need to know.

Thank you so much! I love R.S. and this message board, everyone is so willing to share their advice and experience, it is amazing!

Chantielle,
You've certainly done your research! While I still think your itinerary is ambitious, you do say you've got your heart set on it. And if you have the energy to keep up the pace and the luck to have no problems or delays, you just might pull it off.

Your day in London on the 26th seems busy, but perhaps if you are feeling rested by midday on the 24th you can cover one of those sites early. It's been a long time since I was in Paris so I won't comment on whether your plan works there.

I say go for it! My only advice is to know what sites are your "must sees" in each city and get to them first,so if you start to fall behind schedule (I'm guessing you'll get tired around 5/26-28) you can give up something else instead. Also, plan your time well. (For example, the Trevi Fountain and the Spanish Steps can be visited after other sites are closed.)
Good luck and happy travels.

Just to point out one ( of many ) problems/challenges to your plan:

You allocate 18 hours total time in Venice before heading off to Rome. This AFTER going non stop for the preceeding 4 days.

This is a plan suitable for only a 20 year old.

Train wreck, IMHO.

Chantielle, I think you should go for it too. You can always return to Europe and spend more time in each place that particularly interests you. You sound energetic and you can adjust your daily schedule if needed when you are there.

I'd advise you to not rest the day you arrive. You can do some of your London sightseeing that day and go to bed fairly early. Save the show for another night as you'll be too tired the first night. By being active your first day and going to bed fairly early, you'll get over your jet lag faster.

It's your trip, you should do what you have your heart set on doing and count on returning.

Bob,
I would love to hear more of what you think the problems are in my itenerary.

I am not much over 20 and am used to travelling at a pretty quick pace.

Grier,
thanks for the advice on seeing a few things that first day. I have no idea how the jet lag will affect us since we have never been before. I will adjust some of the sightseeing in London to be a bit more active that first day and just hit the hay early that night.

" You allocate 18 hours total time in Venice before heading off to Rome. This AFTER going non stop for the preceeding 4 days."

PM for more thoughts, but in the end, it's YOUR trip, not mine. Peace.

Chantielle,

My first trip to Europe was in 2004 with my 3 daughters. I had an itinerary much like yours and I was 36! My best advice would be to go for it and have fun, but be flexible. We had 20 days and ended up throwing out the schedule every 5 or 6 days to relax. We did miss out on things we had planned to see, but we have no regrets...we had an amazing trip. I agree with previous poster who recommended sight seeing on that first day. Stay out in the sun, do RS Westminster Walk and see the sights in that area, then take an afternoon nap and you may be up for something in the evening. Enjoy your trip.

Presumably, you'll see Roman baths in Bath, so there's really no need to see more of them in Rome. It doesn't appear to matter to you what anyone tries to advise you, as far as cutting back. You'll see the outside of famous buildings but have no time to tour them. You'll spend a lot of time packing and unpacking, waiting for your train, getting lost on foot, etc. I like quick travel, too, but you really can't imagine how tiring being constantly on the move can be, let alone the challenges of being somewhere where you don't speak the language. The trip itself will, no doubt, force you to slow down. Good luck.

I won't comment on the number of destinations (which I still think is too many... oops, I did comment). But within Paris and London, you won't be able to see all those things in the time you have allotted. This is not just a matter of not giving each the time they need, it just isn't physically possible to squeeze all of those into a single day. I haven't attempted both Stonehenge and Bath in a single day, but that sounds unrealistic as well, particularly on your first day when your body will not want to wake up early.

" I am booking my eurostar tix right now and it is asking how I want my tix, shoudl I do e-tickets, pick it up at the station? How early can I print the e tix?"

Don't bother with any other advise- she is now locked and loaded.

hi Chantielle, a few thoughts. In my younger days I rushed around and visited a few sights in one day, so I won't talk you out of it - you know yourself best. First point: you don't need to see everything that Rick Steves suggests (sorry Rick) - follow your heart. Second: if your husband hates museums, art and architecture, will he enjoy Madrid? Although in Barcelona, there may be enough liveliness in the city to keep him interested. Third: I'm wondering, would you like to see small towns/ villages/ countryside/ mountains instead of the cities? London: I think your sightseeing day is do-able. You don't need to go inside the Houses of Parliament unless you're really interested in parliamentary processes and history; the Tower of London is fun for everyone - take the Beefeater tour; you can do the Globe, St Paul's and Westminster Abbey quickly if you're not into art and architecture. The walk along the South Bank (at the Globe) is nice on a fine day. Consider an organised tour to Stonehenge and Bath, to save yourself energy in terms of planning, driving, working out train schedules. Paris: itinerary sounds do-able. Venice: if you're not into art /architecture, you could skip going inside the Doges Palace, go to the Rialto bridge instead and take time to wander around the city; take the Vaporetto that goes down the Grand Canal; if you like, splurge on a gondola ride. Rome: chief sights for first-timers short on time are generally the Forum, Colosseum, Piazza Navona, Pantheon, Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain. Wander the streets of Trastevere in the evening (have dinner there). By 'Roman baths' do you mean the Baths of Caracalla? The nearest metro station to it should be Circo Massimo (Circus Maximus). Finally, factor in time to travel/ walk between sights. Good luck and happy travels!

Audrey,
Thank you for the specific advice! These are exactly the kinds of tips, advice I was hoping to get. I certainly realize that I may end up cutting things when I am there, we may want to linger somewhere a bit, but I wanted a general outline so I can have some things nailed down.
I would eventually like to see countryside but I think this trip (hopefully there will be another) will just be the cities and the highlights!
We have organized a tour to Stonehenge and Bath, it leaves at 6 am and returns at 6 pm, so it will be a full day, but I won't have to think about much other then getting there on time, so that is nice.
Thanks so much!

Bob,
I would still love advice! I simply booked my tix from London to Paris, but I don't think that locks me into too much and makes it silly for people to leave advice for me.

You have put so much importance on everything that you have allowed yourself time for nothing. Judging by the things you say you want to do, I can tell you from experience that you will not see everything you want to in Paris, Venice and Rome. I imagine the same is true of your other desitinations - but I don't have personal experience there.

My husband took a trip similar to yours on his first time to Europe. And it went fine. Yours will likely go fine also. However, he fully admits he spent most of that trip waiving at major sites from a bus window or standing out in front of them for 10 minutes before they were rushing off to the next site. He didn't truly experience any of these places.

Afterwards when we traveled together we spent much more time in fewer locations. He now knows that he would never go back to doing the whirl-wind type again. You lose more than you gain by doing that.

"it leaves at 6 am and returns at 6 pm". Go to bed VERY early the night before. Getting out of bed at a normal hour the day after flying to Europe is difficult enough. Getting up especially early is going to be a titanic battle between you and your out-of-sync internal clock. If you have already booked this tour, I would check to see if you could reschedule for the next day. Otherwise, you will be starting a very ambitious European trek with your tank nearly empty.

This isn't advice but a request to you -- when you return from your trip please post and let us know how it went. Was it too rushed, or was it the way you thought it would be?

Edit: BTW from your other thread about cellphones, I gather you are planning on traveling without reservations. Is that correct?

Chantielle,

IMHO, your revised Itinerary is still far too ambitious.

One example that stands out is your touring on May 30:

"5/30: am train to Rome arrive 10am - Buy the Roma pass R.S. recommends colosseum forum palatine hill circus maximus trevi fountain and spanish steps trivoli gardens"

Arriving in the chaos of Termini, finding a Hotel (you indicated in a previous post that you'd be phoning Hotels on arrival, if I read correctly), getting to the Hotel and checked-in and then touring all the sites you mentioned is going to be a considerable effort.

Could you clarify what you're referring to with "trivoli gardens"??? If you're referring to the gardens at Villa d'Este at Tivoli, that's about a 1.5 hour train ride each way from Roma Termini. The gardens are open from 08:30 to one hour before sunset, and are closed all Mondays.

I also think your schedule for May 27 in Paris is somewhat overly ambitious. If you're planning to ascend the Eiffel Tower, you may be waiting in a queue for an hour or more, so you'll have to allow time for that as well. Note that if you want to go to the top, there's an extra charge and often another queue for the second Elevator.

You stated "This is our first time to Europe so we really have no idea what to expect, so please tell me what I need to know".

We've all tried to give you our best opinions on your travel plans, so it will be interesting to hear how it all worked out when you return. Be sure to post a "Just Back Report".

Cheers!

Ditto - I would love a trip report. This could be a train wreck and it could be a smashing success, but I think we would all love to know what you liked and didn't like.

Good luck!

I will definitly post when I return about what I loved and hated about my trip. Hopefully more love then hate (ha ha)

I am debating right now on pre-booking my hotels/hostels so I'm not sure if I am going to conquer that on the fly or not.

Another poster (Audrey I think, thanks) mentioned that with my very ambitious itenerary it may be a good idea to pre-book so I don't waste time calling around. So I am pondering that right now, what do others think?

I haven't picked the date for our tour to Stonehenge and Bath so maybe I will move it to the next day if you all think we will be out of energy on that second day.

Chantielle,

How were you planning to get to Stonehenge from Bath? the Stonehenge site is somewhat "out in the country" so you'd need some form of transportation.

You might consider pre-booking with Mad Max Tours as that would be the easiest and most efficient way to get around (perhaps a half-day tour?).

You could also book a tour from London, but I don't have any information on what's available in that regard?

Cheers!

I think it too much for me and I am in my 30's and am in good shape.

If I was to try this, I would have all my hotels buttoned down to be efficient. I think I would also have a backup plan ready as with this many moving parts something may go sideways. (not that is entirely a bad thing but I would accept its reasonably likely).

If I may suggest one thing, cut the large backpacks to medium backpacks or smaller. I would find a spot to do laundry on day 8 or so.

If you want a private room in a hostel for you and your husband, then yes, you should book in advance as most hostels have a limited number of these types of rooms and they book up fast. Also, check and make sure there are not any large festivals or conventions taking place in each of the cities you are traveling to. This can make finding any kind of accommodation (hostel or hotel) much more difficult and time-consuming if you are hoping to book rooms as you travel.

If you don't have much of an interest in art/architecture and your husband has zero interest, why you are visiting some of the attractions on your itinerary? Is it just so you can say you have checked them off a list of "must see tourist attractions"? I think your itinerary is too ambitious so why not just see the things you really care about and skip the rest? Then your itinerary becomes more attainable and you might actually have some time to have an authentic experience and not just do things everyone else expects you to do.

You mention you are only checking bags on the airlines when you absolutely have to. If you are flying budget airline carriers within Europe, your 65L backpack likely exceeds weight/size limits, so prepare to wait for your packs at the airport. Buy a cable lock to secure your pack to a rack on the train as many times when the trains are very full, you may have to store your bag out of your sight.

Do relax at some point and take in Europe. Yes, you are in your 20s...its your first trip, you want to cram in as much as you can. But pushing yourself at a frantic pace every day for weeks, you become exhausted - physically and mentally. Everything you see will start to run together and you won't remember much in the end. Plus, couples start fighting w/ each other at this point. If you value your marriage, slow down just a bit. Besides, there is nothing more annoying than listening to couples argue as they stand behind you in line or dine nearby!

I agree w/ others that you have a very ambitious schedule, and you seem to have realized that by modifying and thinking about hotel reservations. Knowing where you will be staying saves time and gives you peace of mind. The Bath and Stonehenge trip is one that I'd also recommend you drop; Stonehenge is so barricaded to protect it that you aren't able to connect with it. You don't have the time this trip, but going to nearby Avebury is much less touristy (another trip). If you like history, check out the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower of London (BTA site).

A good way to get a general feel for large cities like London or Paris is to take the hop on/off bus tour.Pub food in London is cheaper than a full-service restaurant and tasty, or pick up a sandwich and rent a deck chair for a small fee in Hyde Park.There are lots of interesting shops and restaurants in/around Covent Garden in all price ranges. If you like sweets, do stop at a Thornton's for toffee. I think the Globe Theatre will have begun its season by the time you're in London, and that is a unique experience to see one of Shakespeare's plays very nearly like it would have been staged in his day. If you are interested in theatre, take the tour before the show, and if you go to a performance the price of a seat cushion is well worth it because the wooden benches are narrow and hard.

I, too, look forward to your "report".

Okay, you all convinced me I will pre-book all my hotels/hostels.
If I really like we want to stay somewhere a little longer I will just have to eat the cost of the pre-booking and pay for 2 rooms that night.
So I guess the next part of my question is where is the best and most economical place to stay in each of the cities of my trip? Anything with links is greatly appreciated!

So you say you read RS ETBD guide book - a good start. You should also consult his other guide books that are available for the other places you are going to visit, either buy them or go find them in a library. They can answer your questions much better than the limited answers, however good they may be, that you will get from this web site. My first trip to Europe was on a Rick Steves 21 day Best of Europe tour. A great way to see a lot of Europe in a limited amount of time but then I had all the transportation, hotels, meals, admission fees, etc. provided by the tour. I go back to Europe every summer and I spend about twice as long on things as RS recommends. Just my speed vs. his speed which seems to be "overdrive". You sound like you anticipate being on "overdrive" viewing your plans. Good luck and happy travels.

Whew! Beside good trip, I just wanted to say that I think you can cover all the ground you lay out in Paris (I don't know about London).

I almost never book ahead, preferring the flexibility and freedom, but I would if I were trying an itinerary as tight as yours, just to unclutter every available minute on the ground. (Besides, what could you possibly shift?) So I think you are right, make all your reservations in advance.

Pack really light.

You've picked a great time of year to travel--bon voyage!

Hmm ... so it might be best for Chantielle to think of this as a 'highlights' trip. Focus on a small number of must-sees that you and your husband have agreed upon, and be prepared for things not going as planned - eg. rain, long queues at the Vatican, Eiffel Tower or St Mark's basilica, etc. I remember being in Venice with some friends who were there for the first time, they were perfectly happy just gawking at the city, having a gelato, taking the vaporetto down the Grand Canal; in terms of museums, I think we only visited the Doges Palace and St Mark's Basilica. The experience of being in a totally different place was thrilling in itself. If you decide to drop the day trip to Stonehenge and Bath, there are many other options out of London: Windsor as someone suggested, Hampton Court Palace, Canterbury, or even Hampstead, north London.