Which itinerary sounds best?

I like option 2, it the travel plans are more efficient.

Is picking up and returning your car in Germany an option at your disposal? This eliminates transiting in Vienna and Innsbruck.

28 Dec arrive in Munich
29 rent a car, drive to Saltzburg. sleep here or Berchtesgaden
30 Salzburg /Berchtesgaden
31 drive to Bled or Bohinj
1 Bohinj (visit Vogel)
2 Bohinj (visit lake Bohinj and Lake Bled)
3 drive to Ljubljana
4 visit caves, sleep Ljubljana
5 drive to Mittenwald
6 visit castles, sleep Mittenwald
7 visit Zugspitze, sleep Mittenwald
8 return car. train via Munich to Prague
9 prague
10 prague
11 fly to Paris , long overhaul, then back to Johannesburg

Hi David, your plan makes sense - I didn't look at it that way before. I will look into rather renting a car in Germany. I don't mind cutting out Vienna - would rather spend time in Salzburg. So do you think driving from Ljubljana to Mittenwald could be managed in a day? Are there lots of mountain passes or tunnels on that route?

According to www.viamichelin.com, it would be approx. 5.5 hours (with no stopping), 282 miles of the 303 miles total, on highways. Keep in mind it will be dark by 4 or 4:30pm. Start early.

We've done similar drives in winter in Bavaria and Austria. It's not the distances themselves, but the chance of bad weather that could throw a wrench in the plans.

You could rent the car in car in Munich go straight to Mittenwald, it's an easy drive. One of our favorite places! Not sure about the weather that time of year and how it might impact driving.

I think you need to look at drop off fees if you plan to rent and drop in another country, which looks like option 1. Option 2 you rent and drop in Austria. When renting a car make sure the rental company is ok with taking the car into those countries you need it in. We had to change car rentals because the one we had planned to book wouldn't allow us to take the car into Slovenia.

Other than Prague and Vienna ( I haven't been to either) your trip looks low key, so do you prefer to start your trip with large cities or end with a large cities?

Dec. 8 is a national holiday in Austria.

Thank you for all the replies. With both itineraries I tried to include 2 Austrian cities for collecting and dropping off the rental car. The other option would be renting in Munich and returning the car to munich or mittenwald (doing a loop). And then take the train to prague. I am concerned about driving in winter but it will give us more flexibility for visiting smaller towns.
Prague and Ljubljana would be the only big cities where we would spend some time , we prefer visiting the smaller towns and want to visit two ski resorts. One of our goals is to show my son some snow and I ve heard it is not guaranteed that time of year, therefore doing day trips to 2 ski resorts.

For the drive from Ljubljana to Mittenwald (which sounds quite long), we could perhaps overnight halfway or even take a detour into Italy. Any suggestions?

Both Radstadt and Altenmarkt im Pongau are cute towns right off the A10, roughly midway on your drive.

To detour through Italy, drive to Lienz, Austria and then to and spend the night in either Dobbiaco/Toblach or Brunico/Bruneck. Then head further west to the A22 and take this to Innsbruck and then head to Mittenwald.

If you're doing cable car trips such as the Zugspitze, the Karwendelbahn in Mittenwald, or the Nordkettenbahn in Innsbruck, your son will see plenty of snow. Not a doubt in my mind. We traveled to these area's in late Nov./early Dec. 2010 and 2013.

Paul

I was just trying to ease logistics by suggesting a car pick up in Germany. Unfortunately it's not an area I know, much less to drive in winter. I'm sure others have experience.

I would pick up and return in Germany. Pick up in Munich and drop off either in Garmisch (near Mittenwald) or drive back and return in Munich.

I added that the weather may not cooperate, as we've driven in all these areas except Slovenia in winter during snowy conditions. Once during "white out" conditions between Innsbruck and Seefeld. Roads are quickly plowed in general and kept clear, but driving does become more cautious and slower. That should be taken into account just in case. Of course, you could have magnificent blue skies and clear weather. Just be prepared for slower going.

I like #2, more efficient.

You may consider spending your Prague time in Munich - if you know the city and are sick of it, that's fine. If you haven't spent time there, wow - - what a beautiful town. Innsbruck is also fantastic, so you might consider trimming some other stuff to enjoy it before you have to fly out.

I get the impression that some spots are very important to you, like Bohinj and Mittenwald. Ljubljana might warrant a bit more time than you give. It depends on what you want to do.

Thank you for the input Paul and David. The suggestions to pick up the rental car in Munich makes a lot of sense. I did some research and it definitely works out cheaper to do it this way and to cut out Vienna. I will have a look at the towns you've mentioned - thanks Paul.

J traveler, we've never been to Europe so I would have loved to spend time in all the towns mentioned but we only have about 14 days. To make the trip a bit more affordable we opted for half our time in Slovenia and Prague, and the other half in Germany/Austria. Bavaria sounds beautiful and as I've mentioned we will be snow hunting so it sounded like a good option. The reason I chose Bohinj/Bled was also for scenery and being close to Vogel and other ski resorts.

I could cut out Prague in favour of Munich, but will then try to see Cesky Krumlov to get a taste of the Czech Republic too.

But I am always open to suggestions.

For the drive from Ljubljana to Mittenwald (which sounds quite long), we could perhaps overnight halfway or even take a detour into Italy. Any suggestions?

It's not too long at all. This is the sort of drive thousands of people do every year when they go on a ski holiday. I've done it personally quite a few times in winter, driving to ski resorts in the Tyrol and to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. With sightseeing stops, you can turn it into a full day, but there is no need to spend a night along the way should the weather cooperate. Just have some wiggle room in your itinerary as your planned travel day may also turn out to be a heavy snowfall day. It's useful to pay attention to the local weather services, they often make a point of warning drivers of upcoming heavy snowing.

As for the drive itself, you have many options. You could go via Lienz and then head into Italy via Bruneck or head north to Mittersill and Kitzbühel, take the A10 up to Bischofshofen and then drive via Zell am See and Mittersill or even take the Mallnitz - Böckstein motorail into the Gastein valley, etc.

Fantastic! Thanks Dejan. Can you recommend some affordable ski resorts in that area? We have never tried skiing before and it will be more for the experience than serious skiing. My husband and I will probably just take the cable cars up for the views and maybe try sledding while my son wants to try out snowboarding. So a low key family friendly resort for beginners should work for us. In Slovenia we want to visit Vogel.

In Slovenia, Krvavec and Kranjska Gora are affordable family-friendly resorts. Vogel is lovely but it is within the national park so it does not have artificial snowmaking and may be snow-less should December be dry - in the past few years it's been happening quite often. Luckily, all of these resorts are within driving distance of one another, so you can choose once there.

As for affordable ski resorts in the Tyrol and around GaPa... I've only really been to the major ones (Sölden, Ischgl, Mayrhofen, etc.) and while more affordable than in Switzerland or France, they are not exactly cheap. We usually try to keep costs down by staying at self-catering private accommodation within a short drive of the ski resort instead of at one of the hotels by the slopes. With small kids, I enjoyed staying in Lofer, it's a small family-oriented resort, but it's farther east, on the Salzburg/Tyrol border. However, I'm sure that one of the smaller resorts around Mittenwald will serve you just fine.

Lieslvn, bear in mind that on a first trip to Europe, it's much more pleasant to confine yourself to a smaller geographic area. What's more, Slovenia has some of the most spectacular Alpine settings in Europe, and you might be able to get what you are after without all the moving-about.

Dejan yes I also read somewhere that Vogel might be without snow as you've mentioned so I will use your suggestion of rather going to the other two resorts and keeping an eye on the weather reports before we go.

Jtraveller yes I realize our itinerary might be a bit full. Would you suggest cutting out Prague and rather focus on Slovenia and Bavaria? Or cutting out Bavaria?