Where to go in Europe with 2 kids: ages 8 & 1yr.

I would probably choose France in April, and most likely the south of France so there is a chance of better weather. You could fly to Paris, rent an apartment and stay there a week and do day trips to a few places. From there I would take the TGV to Avignon and find a village to stay in for the rest of the time. Possibly St. Remy (my favorite) I would rent a car if you want to see the countryside. Just check out the rules on carseats. You could go to the beach and on picnics with the children and the mix of Paris and a small village would be a nice balance. Then take the train back to Paris for flight home. Or fly home from Marsailles or Nice.

Christina, As your two "top choices" are France and England, I'd suggest splitting your time between London and Paris, with some day trips. With children of that age, I'd probably choose shorter day trips as their tolerance for touring about may be rather "limited" (if my memory is correct). Again due to the ages, I imagine you don't want to be changing Hotels too often. Those two cities will provide lots of "history, art, culture, great food, wine, shopping, antiques, literature". Travel from London to Paris is very easy via the EuroStar. You can save a substantial amount by pre-booking tickets, however that will "lock" you into a particular departure. You could also consider spending a few nights in other towns. For example, it's easy enough to travel from London to York for a few days. It's also relatively easy to travel from Paris to Bayeux (Normandy) for a few days. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding open jaw (London-Paris) flights from YYZ. Good luck with your planning!

Paris. Parks are everywhere. The Cite des Sciences will thrill your 8-year old. You can take a canal barge trip there from near the Musse d'Orsay. Also, there are carousels in surprising places that your 1-year old may like. We took our four-month old and found cafes to be very welcoming.

Christina, have you considered the logistics of carrying your own luggage, the baby, and the baby's diaper bag and other stuff all at once? The 8 year old won't be able to help much. It is true life is short but not so short that you have to go see Europe this year. I suggest you will have a better time if you either leave the baby home with your mom, or wait until the baby is older and/or your husband can come too. Just my two cents.

Bravo, Shasha. Someone finally said what most experienced travelers feel about traveling with babies and youngsters. We have been taking care of a 17 month old for the last 2 days, and I cannot imagine taking her on such an odyssey. It takes too much stuff to service their needs. There is plenty of time in life to travel with your children. I wouldn't even consider going to the children's mecca, Disneyworld Orlando, until the youngest is 4 years old. And I hate to say it, but an 8 year old will remember very little of a European trip. They really need to be 12-14 years old, and even then they need to be going to special places, like the Anne Frank Haus or Buckingham Palace for the changing of the guard. Sometimes parents need to table their travel dreams for a later date.

Thanks for the travel advice. It's helpful to get some suggestions for itineraries. I'm still not sure where we will go but these suggestions help. As for the parenting advice...many people travel with children. It's a normal part of life to travel with family. I'm not too concerned that my children will "remember" the trip. I travelled extensively as a teenager and in my 20's and I do not remember everything! Children are moulded by what they experience, and seeing how other people live is an important part of that. Thanks again for the travel tips, I appreciate them and they were great. Christina

No Christina, its not parenting advice its LOGISTICS and you have no idea what you are up against with luggage , a stroller and baby and a small child. I am not saying don't go, what I am saying is either take your mom, or think it through carefully without defensive reacting to posts. For instance, in Paris most washrooms in cafes/bistros are not on main level, they are upstairs or downstairs, and I am not kidding some of these stairs are narrow and spiral , not fun to carry baby and supervise the little one too.. but it can be done. Plan each step out,, getting luggage and stroller and leading the 8 yr old around, getting on bus or metro or taking a taxi, whos holding baby while you get stroller out of taxi trunk set up( hey driver may take it out but do not count on him setting it up for you,), now, who is watching luggage while you are doing this ( the pickpockets are watching you ,, you are a perfect target). If I was to do a trip like this I would keep it very simple. One or two places max, and yes, Paris and London are both good choices, ( the Natural History Museum in London is incredible and will take all day to explore!) .

Christina - you are far braver woman than I am. Personally, I wouldn't travel overseas with an infant at any time, least of all on my own. Logistically it will be hard going. I'm certainly of the same school of thought that 'life is too short', but in this case, I would gamble on taking the trip when the kids are older. I can't see how you could possibly get to indulge yourself in the culture, food, shopping, museums etc. with a little one in tow. We have looked after our youngest grandson once a week ( now 2 1/2) since he was 6 months old. He is very low maintenance, and an absolute delight, but I couldn't imagine doing a two week European journey with him.

Nowhere did Christina ask if she should take her kids. Christina next said that the subject was not up for discussion. The busybodies, and especially the arguing busybody, should probably ought to butt out of other people's lives.

Well Eddy she did ask " suggestions for a great trip" and suggesting she review logistics carefully is not being a busybody, and have YOU ever travelled SOLO ,, even a few hours away, with two kids( one of which is a baby for all purposes ) , if not then be quiet.. you likely have absolutely NO experience or knowledge on the subject period. You could have, or still can actually post some helpful informatiton on where to go and what to see though, instead you chose to post an post just to belittle other peoples posts..
The spirit of the other replies is trying to offer helpful advice, the spirit of your post was to put down others trying to help.

just starting my 5th cup of coffee

Christina...aren't you glad you didn't ask for parenting advice? Think of all the great information you would be getting then. There is a reason you have children when you are young :)) As you know, every experience that a child has and what they are exposed to, has a profound influence on the type of person they end up being, whether they remember the details or not. Besides the fact that YOU will remember it. If you followed the advice of those here, you might never go...after all, what if you have another child?...by then your oldest might possibly be a teenager...it is absurd advice and should be ignored. Young parents travel all the time and so they should. Have a wonderful trip and ignore the nay-sayers...no one knows if we have next year to travel (we only hope we do)

Christina, While it is true that your 1-year-old will remember nothing of a trip to Europe, that doesn't necessarily matter. You will remember it. So will your 8-year-old. Along with future trips, your children will develop the expectations necessary to become good travelers. Ours are now 16, 14 and 9, but when we first took them to Europe they were 10, 8 and 4. We prepped them with numerous US road trips before that and they have now been to 25+ countries. They are great travelers and they didn't get that way by accident. They got that way by traveling! As for where you should go, that's pretty easy. You should go exactly where YOU want to go because YOU are doing all the work and YOU are paying for it. Any child - properly "prepped" for such a trip - would be perfectly happy going anywhere in Europe. You needn't be expected to make this trip all about playgrounds, amusement parks and zoos. But as you probably already know, you will have to adjust your expectations for how much you can accomplish in one day. There will be naps to factor in, along with the stress of having so much stuff in your day bag + a stroller. But if you have the funds available for this sort of trip and you are ok with low sight-seeing expectations, I say go for it. We chose England as our first European destination simply for the ease of language and similar cultural norms. But in retrospect, we didn't need to be that cautious. We have now been all over Europe and have never felt uncomfortable or had any trouble being understood in English by anyone in the tourism industry. I think a London/Paris combination would be great. Ideally, you would combine that with some time in rural areas, but in your situation it might be easier to just stay in the cities for the most part. Take the Eurostar train between the two and book early for the best prices. "Gate-check" a good, sturdy stroller with the biggest wheels possible.

My (then) 8 year old boy loved Paris and still talks about returning. We travel to Europe with him every year (he is 13 now).

Finishing second cup of coffee now.

James actually I think the question of ethics WAS solicted on the thread "double booking"..wasn't it? See how people can jump to conclusions.. Anyways, I certainly don't think it matters whether the one year old remembers the trip, and I also think OP can do trip , but just want her to work through the boring but important details , it will be harder alone with two tots, not impossible .

For the record, my comments were travel advice, not parenting advice. Of course people travel with young children. Yes, families do it all the time and we did too when our children were very young, as well as later. But with one exception our travel with children involved two adults to share the work of schlepping kids and their gear from place to place, managing bathroom stops and diaper changing, shopping, etc. Yes we had a great time as a family and we treasure the memories and the photos. But there wasn't much time (as in, no time) for fine dining and good wine. In other words, it was all kid time not adult time. And getting through airports wasn't easy even with two adults to juggle things. Just something to keep in mind as you plan your trip.

You should look at the Graffiti section under traveling with kids, might have some good suggestions as to places to visit, what to do on the flight, etc. I would suggest renting an apartment for one week in one location and another apartment in your second city so kids can spread out and you can get them breakfast, etc. Good luck.

The apartment suggestion is a great one, as it gives you much more room and you will feel less inclined to "shush" the children all the time or freak out if the young one cries. You can put together simple meals while the children nap or in the evening when they are ready for quiet time. And even if you don't cook, you have better access to heathy snacking and picnic lunch making. Some apartments might even come with some toys or other child-friendly things. As for missing out on "grown-up" stuff; We've spent 140+ nights in Europe and have never once had a "fine" dining experience, nor do we drink alcohol. I don't think we've missed out on anything, and our itineraries have precious little to do with "child-like" things. To each his/her own, but don't let anyone else attempt to define for you what it means to be an adult traveler.

Another advantage to renting an apartment is having a washer and possibly a dryer. Saves going to a laundromat. Huge plus for us, and even more so for you. I agree with others, I would do Paris and London. They're both very child-friendly with lots of options of things to do and parks available. My favorite place in Paris is the Luxembourg Gardens, has been since I was 4 yrs old. Your kids will love it. Amazing playground, marionette shows, carousel, donkey rides, two cafes, live music, many bathrooms.

I reckon I need to eat crow since I've never travled with kids. Oh, wait, maybe I have. Number Three was born in a foreign country - - we must have gotten her home somehow. And I can almost remember herding three of the buggers around on the Tokyo subway, and turning them loose on their own when they were less than twelve on the London and Paris subways. Number Two toppled his butt into the drink at the floating market in Bangok. That was a logistics nightmare - - it took us twenty minutes to buy him some dry clothes - - we were mean, however, and made him walk around in squishy shoes the rest of the day. As best I remember these three urchins (whose diapers I've changed on more park benches where I don't speak the language than you can imagine) all speak at least three extra languages and all have advanced degrees.

Recently is a bit more clear. A few weeks ago I had my wife's three and five-year old grandkids in London. Wanting to hang around with people my own mental age, I tubed their tails over to the Kensington playground. Holy cow!! - - the lift was busted at the Queensway station and the loudspeaker was running on about the two hundred and some spiral stairs to get out. Well, logistically, I had to park one at the bottom and hump the other to the top of the spiral stairs, park him, walk down the spiral stairs, hump her up the spiral stairs, and finally press on. Logistically, that must have taken five whole minutes. When we took the presents over the other day, I asked the five-year old what he thought about London. His answer was that he liked the two-person, guys-only trip to China back in the spring better. Traveling with kids is unsuitable. You should not do it, ever. But if you do, think about ditching the stroller and tote the shrimpy one in one of those backpack gizmos - - it makes the whole subway system a heck of a lot easier (turnstiles/flapper gates, platform to train spacing and height differential.

Now I'll nose in and tell you what I think you should do: Paris and London. This only gives you four transistions if you fly into one and out the other. Airport to hotel, hotel to train, train to hotel, and hotel to airport. Trying to get out into the country in either England or France is going to get a bit more complicated, since you'll have to move the whole mess some distance once you get to the far beyonds. They're both about equal for both your interests and the kids. Both have good science and natural history museums as well as a slew of other things that kids think are neat. For you, they both have enough art museums to give me an acute case of the pukes. When you get your mind made up, there's enough of us with young brains that can suggest hotels with sitter services, etc. Ask. Get an ignore button for people who tell you how to run your life.

Any chance of leaving baby with a grandma and just going with the eight year old? That would be fun! I would go to Paris - find all the fun playgrounds. Eat Croque Monsieur for every meal. And it would be a blast. Paris was my son's first experience in Europe and we had such a great time!!

Ed, so you left a three-year-old child standing by herself in the London Tube station while you carried the other child up the 180 stairs and came back down (meanwhile leaving the 5-year old standing alone while you went to get the other)? I think your illustration points out perfectly the possible "logistical" complications of one adult traveling with two small children. Yes, it turned out OK, but . . . it might not have.

This thread illustrates the reason I never wanted a second child!

No, Sasha, I didn't. The couple beside me split up and one stood guard at each end. Otherwise I would have tucked one under each arm and staggered. You need to quit second-guessing about what might have happened where you weren't. Essentially, how I take care of kids is no more your business than how the OP takes care of kids.

The various styles of toddler backpacks are quite clever and handy in some situations. But you will also need lots of other stuff with you in another bag and that's a lot of cumbersome weight hanging off your body. The beauty of a good stroller is that you can put lots of other stuff in them besides the child. It's a tough call. Maybe the 8-year old can carry a small pack with the picnic lunch in it and some diapers, freeing you up to manage the pack for the toddler?

So you weren't alone with the children, OK. Then the situation is not comparable to what a mom traveling ALONE with 2 small children will face. Or are you going to say that this nice couple were complete strangers? Is it really OK to entrust a 3-year-old to someone in a situation like that? Also, how someone else takes care of their kids is everyone's business when it involves child endangerment. Not saying that is what happened in your situation, but your initial description of the event made it sound like a 3-year-old child was left alone in a potentially dangerous sitation. I know you have fun describing your adventures and sounding like the tough guy, and we all enjoy that, but in this case you came across as negligent, until you explained further.

Unless that "couple" was not with Ed but just friendly strangers.. there are some but it would be hard for me personally to leave my kids with any.. ( yes, as a mom , I do think of the "what ifs",, I have always said, "it may be one in a million ( some bad happening) but it won't be my "one"). Ed, I have travelled with kids too, solo and as a family, it does involve more thought and logistics, and it IS harder on your own with mulitiples, especially when they are very young, ( as in a 1 yr old). By the time a child is 10 or 11 it is much easier, my 11 yr old was "let loose" in Paris when I was alone with her and too sick to get out of bed, I gave her money for lunch and sent her down the street from the hotel to a sandwich shop( Pauls ) as she had been stuck with me all day and hadn't been able to eat.. but she was responsible enough at 11 to do a simple task,, I don't know if I would have even considered that with an 8 yr old though.. actually, I know I wouldn't have, I was nervous enough about an 11 yr old.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, just means it requires some extra thought and that is exactly what I suggested.. work out the logisitics carefully. If one has a plan it is easier.

When our kids were young, we rented beach houses or condos in the New Hampshire mountains. We didn't even take them to Disneyworld until they were 10 and 12 years old.

I agree with the suggestion to minimize transitions and go to London, take the train (Eurostar) to Paris and fly from Paris back to Toronto. Both cities will offer you good quality hotels (with English speaking Front Desk staff in Paris). If you have the budget for taxis, or private shuttle service, you can avoid some of the up and down stairs with all your stuff issues. It won't get you the country, but I think for a first trip, and on your own with two kids, it is your best option. Traveling alone with kids is more tiring that you can imagine. Although I didn't take mine to Europe when they were little, I did travel alone with them in the US. Plan what you want to do, get excited about it, and get the 8yo excited about it, too. (Then prioritize and realize you might not get to 1/2 of it.) I wouldn't bother with planning long day trips, or doing much wine tasting (although you could ask for recommendations at a wine shop and take bottles back to your hotel room to try in the evenings.) You may need to plan to do laundry at some point, too. The biggest logistical question I see is whether or not to take a stroller. In theory, you could pull/carry two suitcases, while the 8yo pushes the 1yo in a stroller. Or, you could put the 1yo in a carrier/sling/backpack and carry one suitcase while the 8yo carries their own. Keep the 8yos suitcase small and lightweight and you can go up and down stairs without problem. We did a 3 city tour in Italy earlier this year and my then 8yo packed and unpacked and carried her own suitcase anytime we changed cities. That included carrying it up and down a lot of stairs and bridges in Venice due to arriving during a transportation strike. Kids that age can be responsible and more independent than I think most people on this board would give them credit for. Bon Courage!

@Bob...not meaning to criticize...but Disney would go out of business if everyone thought like you. Nothing wrong with it, but neither is seeing your 3 year old granddaughter parade around Disney in her princess costume and run to the arms of her beloved Minnie Mouse or ask me when I am taking her to the 'real' Eiffel Tower.

I agree with posters that suggest waiting until your husband came come as well, leaving the kids home with daddy and/or grandma, or wait until the kids are at least a few years older. I have been to Europe twice only because I left the kiddos at home with their dad. Next time I plan to drag hubby along and leave the kids with my mom now that the youngest is nearly 6. It's partly a money issue. Why spend so much money to drag your kids someplace they probably won't even enjoy? Meanwhile you can't really do the things you want to do because you brought them along! And if one or both kids get sick, it can become a nightmare. I remember what a hassle it was when my then 4 year old middle daughter got an earache at Disneyland. I also remember when the stroller was broken at an airport in India when my youngest was 8 months old, nor were we given a seat for her on the 2nd leg home so we had to hold a wiggly baby who kept tossing her pacifier on the floor for the entire 10 hours it took to get from Frankfort to Oregon. Try eating your dinner from those tiny trays while the little angel tries to grab everything or knock it off. Not easy. And all those times I had my husband there to help. Sometimes it is unavoidable to travel with the little darlings, so you do what you must. Other times, think long and hard about your expectations for the trip and whether it's really worth it.

Please - waiting for Disney until 10 and 12? We outgrew Disney at 6.