Where did you hit the wall?

With you all the way, stoutfella. We arrived in Marseille from California at around 9 a.m., jumped on the train for Arles and walked around for a few hours, had lunch, then got a train to Avignon to find our B & B. I could not keep from showing up an hour early-they were very understanding-had a shower and a 20 minute nap, then jumped up seeking food. We walked into the main touristy area, sat down at this big place on the main drag, and I promptly ordered up sausage with sauerkraut. Go figure-I knew my day was over. We headed back to our room and slept for a good long time. Next day, everything was pretty normal.

My time zone shift is longer since we travel from the west coast, but as a rule I would not dream of planning anything I want to actually enjoy on the date of arrival in Europe. I pretty much hit the wall three hours after the plane lands, and then we have a two hour nap before going out for dinner. I am chronically sleep deprived back home, so that makes it harder. I have never understood how anyone can just force themselves to stay up until a normal bedtime after landing in Europe.

"...force themselves to stay up until normal bedtime after landing in Europe." I did that twice in Europe in my early twenties, purposely did not sleep the first time over on the flight to London Gatwick from Oakland, landed ca 0515 or so, but couldn't get to the student hotel at Kings Cross until ca 1430, by which time I had gone 24 hours easily without sleeping....almost like pulling an all nighter in college. Now, I sleep on the plane going over. Main problem is resisting the temptation of watching the movies when you know you had better sleep..period.

5am or whatever the local time that relates to my normal 5am - that seems to be the "witching hour" for me. If I am going to be up long hours I make sure to eat protein & carbs. The body needs energy -especially if it has not been rested. 5 am is the time for a real breakfast - eggs, meat & potatoes! Then I'm good to go for hours more!

Did you apologise to the waitress?

Thirty years ago, landed in Istanbul the day after quitting a horrible job, I checked into the hotel and slept for 18 hours. I was fine after that. I blame the bloody job, never have had jet lag.

If I tried to do all that on the arrival day, I would have hit the wall much sooner than you, probably at the parliament debate! I know I won't be up for much on arrival day, so I just plan a slow day. So far no hit the wall moments that way.

Sounds like dehydration with the fatigue is what really did you in, stoutfella. I usually take a nap in the afternoon after a light lunch on arrival day.

I am so excited to be in Europe that the adrenaline carries me through the first day. The first several, really. Last year in happened on day 10 or 11, our free day in Munich. I was tired and cranky and had the "ready to go home" feeling. We carried out sandwiches and ate dinner in our hotel room and went to bed at 7 and that seemed to fix it. I probably have an unfairly negative view of Munich because of it though - I didn't love that city as much as all the other places we visited. We are planning on taking things a bit slower this year to avoid that.

For us it is about 8 pm, just can't make it any later. Off the plane, make our way to our destination, eat, shower, walk around, snack, sleep.

We always take a two-hour nap once we check into our hotel and then a quick shower to wake ourselves up. Last year we went to London with another couple. They decided to power through the day without a nap while also telling us how wrong we were about taking a nap. We told them this is how we travel to Europe and it works for us - you do it your way, and we would do it our way. We told them we would meet up for dinner.

Well the next morning we were supposed to meet in the hotel lobby at 9:30. I was determined to have front row "seats" to the changing of the guards at Buckingham Palace. Well, my husband and I were well-rested and we were at the lobby at 9:30 as planned. The other couple - well, they were so tired that they slept through their alarm. We finally called them at 9:45 to see where they were and our phone call woke them up. They said they would be right downstairs - we said we would meet them for lunch since we were already running late.

Well, let's just say I didn't get my front row "seats" at the fence - ugh! And they missed the show entirely.

Long story, but we always take a nap when we arrive from an overnight flight since we don't sleep well on planes either. You just have to figure out what works for you.

It has happened to me twice

First time, 2006, we landed in Glasgow, took the train straight away to Edinburgh and had a full day of sightseeing, including an evening walking tour. That day was fine, but the next day by mid-afternoon I had hit a wall. I was so tired I was nauseous. I returned to the hotel and lay there, not awake but not asleep, for the rest of the day and night. I vowed never to do so much on day one again.

The second time was in 2011. We landed at CDG and took a train right away to Lyon. I was doing ok -- until I feel asleep on a park bench. It was downhill from there because I couldn't be trusted to stop moving. Every time we sat down at anything, my body would slither off the chair. We went for a tea and I fell asleep, jerked awake and almost knocked the teapot and cups off the table. Of course that night I didn't have a good sleep, but I pulled myself together the next day anyway.

Sometimes I suffer greatly with jet lag, other times it doesn't even register. For example the year we went to Rome it was as if I didn't cross a single time zone.

I hate the feeling of being so tired that it "hurts." I guess this is why some countries use lack of sleep as a torture mechanism. It's not fun!

In 2013 we went to Germany for 2 weeks. Days 1-5 were in Berlin, first day was beautiful and sunny the rest were rainy and chilly. Days 6 & 7 in Nuremberg, rainy and chilly. Day 8 we arrived in Munich around 9 am. Our plan was to do the Rick walk from the book, but IT WAS RAINING (see a pattern here?). So rather than try to juggle the book and an umbrella, we took a guided walking tour. Returned to the hotel, damp, chilled, hungry, and thoroughly disgusted with the endless rain. Husband told me to stay put, he'd go out and bring back something to eat. Half hour later he was back with Pizza Hut pizza, McDonald's fries, and Diet Cokes WITH ICE!! I once again knew I married the right man :-).

We continued to have rain the rest of the trip, but we didn't hit the wall again!

Emma: I know you're right about the alcohol at lunch. We had second thoughts, but hey, we were in a London pub for the first time.

Nigel: I wasn't nasty to the waitress. Pathetically pleading for a little ice is more accurate.

It sounds like we packed a lot into the first jet-lag day, but a great deal of the time was spent just walking around in the sun. Westminster Abbey was the only thing that demanded some focus to enjoy, and I totally lost my focus after an hour or two of shuffling around the marble.

I would love to catch even a couple of hours sleep on the plane, but I suspect that's never going to happen. And I can't nap, either. I'll get dozy and think a nap would be nice, but once I lie down I'm wide awake. I think "powering through" that first day will probably have to be our usual strategy.

Thank goodness for that walk in the park, though. It relaxed and refreshed us. What a lovely place.

Stoutfella,
I love this topic! A few years ago, in 1999 I think, in London, on the day of arrival, I did what everyone recommends: get on the new time zone, walk in the fresh air. I ate dinner and bought a ticket at Leicester Square to a play called Art. Unknown to me at the time, it is a very intellectual play, a lot of talk and hardly any action. Well, you know what happened, I fell asleep and slept through almost all of the play. I don't even remember if there was an intermission. A few years later, in Atlanta, the Alliance Theatre did a production of Art and I didn't really like it then. I could see why I fell asleep, the jet lag only helped it along.

Andrea - I laughed out loud at your post! Falling asleep at tea and on a park bench, very funny!
Pilgrim - I, too, am a believer in naps. I have learned to let my body give in to the urge to sleep but I limit it to 2 hours. It really does refresh me and then I am able to go on the new time zone until 9 or 10 pm at night.
In June 2015, I was in Berlin at my hotel by 10 am. Well, my room was not ready and I was desperately tired. I was joining a Rick Steves tour of Berlin, Prague & Vienna and I had arrived a day before the tour was to begin. The hotel gave me an impromptu coffee and rolls sort of "tide me over" snack. A kind soul was in the dining room and we struck up a conversation and he asked me if I was on the tour. I said yes. He then offered me the key to his room to take a nap. He & his wife had a family room with an additional bed. He was going out for a couple hours to sightsee. I took a 2-hour nap that revived me! It was a funny story when the group met at our intro meeting!

So, to me, naps are a godsend.
Judy B

A kind soul was in the dining room and we struck up a conversation and
he asked me if I was on the tour. I said yes. He then offered me the
key to his room to take a nap. He & his wife had a family room with an
additional bed. He was going out for a couple hours to sightsee. I
took a 2-hour nap that revived me! It was a funny story when the group
met at our intro meeting!

Well, that sure is a way to meet people LOL. A "kind soul" he was. The world would be a better place if everyone was this kind and thought of others more often. Those are true friends - even before you knew them. LOL

I've been known to nod off while sitting in museums waiting for my husband...lol. In Boston one time trying my hardest to stay awake - I mostly succeeded.

I guess the worst for us was when we flew over in 2010. We connected thru Newfoundland and had an earlier flight, arriving at Heathrow at 6:30 am (usually from Halifax we arrive about 9am). We were catching the Eurostar to Paris so we made out way to the train stn arriving about 8:30 and wandered around for a bit, having breakfast, relaxing. Didn't really sleep on the plane. I can't rem when the train left, but I rem maybe 20 min of the journey out of London, then was out like a light. I opened my eyes once and saw fields of hay, then out again. Next thing I know we were 20 min from Paris. I think my hubby was out for half the ride. The only thing I can think now is - I really hope I wasn't snoring/drooling/mouth hanging open (but most likely I was doing all three of those things) and thank God no one decided to make off with any of our stuff!

I really hope I wasn't snoring/drooling/mouth hanging open . . .

This is probably why I can't sleep on planes. I'm so worried about this. LOL

Pilgrim -
Yes, he was a lovely person, and his wife as well. They have been married for 20 or so years with 4 daughters. He was a high school history (I think) teacher. He could see I was sooo tired and jetlagged...and I was so grateful! It added a nice dimension to the trip and people got quite a few laughs out of the story.

Best,
Judy B

I try not to arrive in Europe until 12 noon at the earliest, by the time I've checked in and refreshed a bit I've got enough time to see a few things yet not have too much time until bedtime, which predictably ends up being 8-9 pm, generally back in my room by 6 or so. If I can stay upright and motivated for a good 6 hours, then, I'm doing great.

Sometimes I just wander the immediate environs and find a meal--no alcohol, that's a recipe for total zombie mode--others I visit a museum or outdoor attraction for a couple of hours. First trip abroad was London and I was able to visit the V&A and explore Harrod's before crashing. My trip in May to Paris had me checked in and heading to the metro by 12, spent a few hours at the Pompidou then Notre Dame and the Conciergerie plus quite a bit of happy wandering--Paris was so compelling I had to force myself to return to the hotel. Resting as needed and either a coffee or cool drink usually gets me through.

I am always so excited when I get there that I can just keep going until nightfall. The problem is at the end of the trip when I get home. For a few days, around two in the afternoon, I feel like I can't stay awake to save my life!

On my first day in Europe, I always make it a point to get outside and go for a long walk. My goal is to make it to 8:00 pm before going to sleep. I never plan anything very important that first day because it is such a blur from lack of sleep. I also have a hard time sleeping on the plane.

I usually hit the wall a few times during each trip. It always happens in a museum and is cured by a cappuccino and snack in the museum coffee shop.

Pilgrim -- oh, the arrogance of people who "insist" that they know better than you -- and then to compound it by failing to get the rest they needed so they could meet their commitment to you the next morning! Ugh!

This puts me in mind of something funny that happened this summer. My mom and dad came to Paris for a couple of days before we went up to Scotland to meet up with my brother and his family, who were arriving from LA. A big part of the reason for my folks to come here first was precisely so they could recover a bit from their jet lag (which affects them even more now that they are in their 70s) before we undertook our big trip.

My mom is a notorious sleeper and I have always warned her over the years not to sleep TOO much on her first day as she risks then being up all night. She never heeds my advice and always sleeps all afternoon; her need for sleep is just too strong.

This year it was my dad who seemed more affected, and he went to bed rather early, late morning. My mom, meanwhile, was still up in the early afternoon when I was getting ready to go back to work. I asked her when she planned on laying down for her nap. "Well," she said, "your brother told me that I really shouldn't sleep too much the first afternoon or I'd never be able to get back to a normal sleep schedule from my jet lag."

I about fell out of my chair.

I have been traveling to Europe (besides the year that we lived in Scotland when I was 6 and my brother was 2) since 1988, when I went to the then-Soviet Union on a Russian language study tour for six weeks, and have hardly stopped since. I lived in Hungary and taught English in the early 1990s. I came back to Hungary and interned later in the 1990s. I went to Europe several times for work and fun in the late 90s to early 2000s, moved back here in 2004, and moved back here AGAIN in 2008 (with numerous visits, including to get married, between late 2006 when I left France and early 2008 when I moved back). And of course, living here the last 8 and a half years, I've made several trips back to the States (although not as many as i would like), which of course implies jet lag coming back this way on the return every time.

In other words, I have flown trans-atlantic and experienced and worked through arrival jet lag in Europe probably literally dozens of times in the last 30 years.

My brother, when he gave that advice, had traveled overseas (besides that year in Scotland) twice: once to France to visit me at Christmas, and then on to Italy; and another time to France to come to my wedding (and then again on to Italy).

Not that there's anything wrong with that - I don't mean AT ALL to say he's lesser of a person, or hasn't had interesting life experiences, or anything of that nature. I merely state that his experience with international travel is not very extensive, and certainly much less than mine.

And yet HE was the one my mom listened to when it came to jet lag advice. That kind of burned.

(The funny thing too is that he told her exactly what I've told her all these years. But since HE communicated it, she cited it as the gospel truth.)

Wow Kim, doesn't your jaw drop (and then clamp shut hopefully) when aging parents do that! I can relate...

I must learn the phrase "jetlag " in multiple languages to explain some of our bizarre behavior during the first couple of days after we arrive in Europe.

The first time we traveled with our son, daughter in law and then 10 month old granddaughter to Europe we were trying to explore Berlin on day 2 and visit the Reichstag before heading back to our hotel. We were doing ok until the baby needed to nurse. The parents sat down on a park bench and the baby began to nurse. Within a few minutes all 3 were sound asleep with the baby almost falling off of her mamas lap. Needless to say it was an awkward situation made more awkward when 2 ladies strolled by and looked quite alarmed. We said its ok and tried to indicate sleep deprived or jetlagged. The ladies ended up laughing and knowingly smiling (rather than reporting them to the German social service office!). We gently woke our sleeping family up and kept going awhile longer after the 15 minute park bench nap.

How do you say jetlagged in multiple languages?

I live on the east coast and often land early in the morning. One trip to Shannon landed at 5:30 in the morning. If I'm able to check into my hotel early, I get into my pajamas, make the room as dark as possible and set the alarm for two hours or so later. Then I get up, shower and head out. That two hours really in bed, not just napping, tricks my body into thinking I actually had a short night's sleep. The jet lag is less of an issue when sleep deprivation isn't part of the equation. I know this is counter to the advice you get but it has worked for me as long as I am in the hotel by 10:00 am or so. Any time after that, I just slog it out.

Only time I have ever been able to get some sleep on a plane is if I am flying business class and get one of those seats where I can lay perfectly flat. Flying coach? Forget it. Flew coach from the U.S. to Melbourne, Australia. Did not sleep at all. Connecting flight was seriously delayed in Auckland, New Zealand. By the time I landed, I was already a good 36 hours with zero sleep. Finally made way to hotel in Melbourne and was able to check in. Took a shower and then laid down on the bed for just a minute. Woke up 13 hours later.

I've hit the wall after some shorter overseas flights, too. Landed in Dublin with a friend and we both thought we would try to "power through". Did walked around a bit in the daylight, then made the mistake of entering a semi dark pub and sat in a snug to have some drinks. I literally dozed off with a pint of beer in my hand and somehow never spilled a drop. My friend also briefly fell asleep in the pub. We woke up and decided to just go back to the hotel and took a 2 hour nap. When we woke up, we felt so much better and actually went out to dinner and then to some more pubs and didn't actually go to bed until close to 2AM.

I don't try to fight it I feel like I need sleep after a long flight. There are times when I feel perfectly fine and can stay awake and keep moving, and others when I can't. It's one of the reasons why I never plan to do anything major on the very first day. If I end up having the energy, great. If not, I'm sleeping.

I've really enjoyed reading all these responses and all your different ways of "scaling the wall." I'll be anxious to see how we handle it when we land at 11 a.m. in Venice next May. Maybe we'll at least skip the wine with lunch. :-(

Cheers!

@ Mona...If you want to say "jet lag" or convey the experience in German, use the word , " die Zeitumstellung" or "die Zeitverschiebung."

In French: decalage horaire

And actually, I pointed it out to my mom, which made her laugh. Then we told my dad the story later, and my brother when he arrived. It still makes me chuckle!!

Kim in Paris,
I have 2 brothers and if they say it, it must be right for my widowed mother. I am a financial professional but guess who manages her accounts? The non-professional!
I empathize with you.
Oh, well, life goes on.
Judy B

I have 2 brothers and if they say it, it must be right for my widowed
mother. I am a financial professional but guess who manages her
accounts? The non-professional! I empathize with you. Oh, well, life
goes on. Judy B

Same thing in our family. We are financially comfortable and we are both in the financial industry. My husband's parent's take advice from the sibling who filed for bankruptcy and who continues to live in debt. We don't get it.

We even suggested they move their money out of the stock market in 2001 because we felt the market would be headed down in the next few months - they listened to the bankruptcy sibling. We told them it was our suggestion, but of course they could do whatever they wanted since it was their money (and we didn't know for sure it was going to go down - just a hunch based on what was happening in the housing market). The stock market dropped dramatically the following year - they actually had the nerve to tell us that we didn't "push" the issue hard enough. We can't win. Now we just sit back, keep our mouths shut while we watch them make bad decisions after bad decisions.

"The jet lag is less of an issue when sleep deprivation isn't part of the equation. I know this is counter to the advice you get but it has worked for me as long as I am in the hotel by 10:00 am or so." Kim, exactly! Sometimes I think people confuse being exhausted with jet lag. The above "wall" is hit when you are exhausted. Jet lag is a time adjustment internally, IMO.

Kim, Judy B. and Pilgrim: Same thing in my family. It's still a man's world...no matter how little common sense he has.

I tried something new on my last trip this past spring and will do the same in three weeks--a daytime flight.

The flight leaves early in the morning and arrives in the evening. By the time I arrived, did all the "paperwork" and g0t to my hotel, it was bedtime and I was ready.

I know there aren't many flights like this and not everyone can take advantage of it. I usually fly out of JFK and stop in London. (London is my usual first stop when going to Europe.) I fly to NY a few days ahead of time--I'm from there so lots of people to see--and spend the night before the flight at an airport hotel. Staying at the hotel gives me at least a half hour extra sleep and then take the hotel shuttle to the airport.

If I had to take an evening flight and was going to a place where I couldn't get a non stop flight, I might route myself through an airport where there was a Yotel or similar airport hotel. I'd plan to spend a few hours in between flights to get some sleep and take a shower before continuing on my journey. IF I tried to do it all at once, my jet lag, coupled with exhaustion, would be intense.

I didn't hit the wall but hubby sure did. I dozed a little on the flight but he didn't. Instead he watched every darn movie he could. We arrived at our apt. in Amsterdam around noon. The maids were cleaning so we just dropped off our bags and took a nice walk until time to meet our landlady. When she left we did too, for more exploring and finally a pancake supper. Hubby just had to go to the Grey Area for his first Amsterdam smoke after dinner. Combine a little weed with jet lag and you have a walking zombie. Everything would have been fine had we returned to the apartment where he could nap for awhile but when we left I remembered I had no creamer for morning coffee so a trip to Albert Heijn was in order. Uh huh, I should have gone by myself but it was dark now and he insisted on tagging along. It took me all of ten minutes to grab several things as he tried to decide between half a dozen cereal choices. We got in line and when it was time to pay he flaked - totally nonfunctional person. I paid and when we exited he had to sit down on the wall outside and just chill for a few minutes. A homeless man with his dog sat on the wall across from us and the dog began growling and barking at my husband who now sat sleeping on the wall. This went on for a good ten minutes with the homeless man staring at us and me hoping that dog didn't get loose. Finally hubby felt like he could walk back to the apartment and I took off, checking behind me frequently to make sure he was still there, afraid to slow down for fear he would sit down and go back to sleep. This year we are going to the grocery first.

Add 2-3 hours additional flight time to get to a major airport where we really fly to Europe, plus more time zones to confuse our bodies and a larger misery index is the result for those of us in the hinterlands. Tall wall.

Nance: That's quite the tale. Well done for surviving.

Bruce: We normally fly out of Peoria because it's so much easier. But the trans-Atlantic flights are way cheaper directly out of Chicago, even factoring in gas and parking. So that means driving to O'Hare. Not that bad going up. But last year, arriving at O'Hare after the flights back from Paris, I was in a pretty good zombie state. Then, after 12 days of zero rain in Europe, we hit rain on the drive home. So, yeah, the travel before and after the "real" travel isn't much fun.

stoutfella - something always happens when hubby is involved and we always come home with a tale. We laughed about it the next day but I was really worried that I was going to have to pull a reverse Flintstone and drag him back to the apartment!
Off topic: While we were on our RS tour hubby went out front of the hotel in Florence to smoke a cigarette. A girl came up asking for money and he told me since he hadn't given anyone any money on our trip that he pulled out 2 euro coins to give her. She asked for more and when he said no, she nodded her head okay and wanted to go with him up to our room. Funny but sad.

Frank II , I'm trying a daytime flight on my next trip in a couple of weeks. I'm meeting my mother in Boston and we are flying to Heathrow at 8:00 am the next day. We are using miles to fly to Venice, so it's a bit of a convoluted itinerary but I have lots of Hilton points to use for the airport hotel stays. I'm hoping no red eye flights will help with the first day fatigue and jet lag just means I'll be hungry at odd hours.

Frank II, Kim:

I've been taking the day flight to Europe, all but twice, for the last 15+ years. It makes traveling to Europe so easy and pleasant, IMO. Why be exhausted if you don't have to be? However, if the throngs on this RS forum decide to do days, I hope you all go to JFK...to keep my tickets cheap!
Frank II: Now that you are traveling my way perhaps you will stop denying there is PP control outbound between European and Trans-atlantic flights on BA in terminal 5. LOL. And yes, when you don't go all the way out to immigration!
Beat that exhaustion! Wray

"I've been taking the day flight to Europe, all but twice, for the last 15+ years. It makes traveling to Europe so easy and pleasant, IMO. Why be exhausted if you don't have to be?" Would if I could.

From the west coast it's best to land over there, be it London , Frankfurt, or CDG sometime between 0800 to 1100 on a direct flight. That way it's an uninterrupted 10 plus hours, giving you the best chance for sleeping during the flight

On a trip to England in June of this year, we walked to the National Gallery after dropping our luggage at our nearby hotel. At 2, I reached my limit. I was able to go back to hotel and lie down for an hour before going to tea(as dinner) at Fortnum and Mason at 4. Tea is the perfect thing to do on your first day-quiet and relaxing-just don't go somewhere you have to dress up. Business casual is ok at FM. Then I went back to hotel and to bed.

I don't have any jet lag issues when we get to Europe, it's when we get home that it hits me. Usually excitement about being wherever it is we are takes over so its not really a problem. I do, however, tend to do things outdoors if possible and always schedule the first day very light so we can go to bed early. Interesting topic.

Day 22... in Paris. According to my Fitbit we walked over 13 miles that day. I ate 4 cookies for dinner and went to bed.

True, as Diana says, if it's going to happen, exhaustion on arriving in Europe or upon returning, the chances are it's upon returning to SFO after the 11 hr flight. But that depends too, not always. I don't arrive exhausted, even though having slept 6 hrs is better than only two.

My wife and I flew to London from western Canada in May 2016 We arrived in London and got to our hotel near Victoria Station by 1:00 We walked to Buckingham Palace through Green Park to the Kensington area and Princess Diana's Memorial. It was now 5:30 and our legs gave out. We took a cab back to Victoria Station area, had supper in a pub and sacked out about 8:30 PM. By the next morning we were in sync with local time. I think the fresh air and walking helped. We did find however on returning home that it took several days to get back to whatever normal is.

I am in the take a nap on arrival camp. 2 hours and Im good to go. But hit a second wall day16 when we took an early morning flight from Munich to Berlin. Needed a major nap that day. Think I need to plan a 'nap' day in the mdidle of longer trips going forward