Western Europe Trip - Feedback Please

Hi Justin.

• There's no bad start.
• I'd go as early as you can, starting in the south and head north. It will be hot south of the Alps! Plan for early starts (to use the cool of the morning) with midday nap.
• Time spent should be destination specific. Get some good guidebooks and make a plan for 3 days, then for a 4th day, then a 5th. Which seems like enough? WhIch seems like worth an extra day?
• You can have a great time in any of these places with the right attitide. The best choice will depend on your kids and on you. What do you all like?
• That said I think you should strive for logistical continuity. Do not bop into the Cinque Terre, then go to Switzerland, then across the continent to Greece. It's too much time spent in travel.
• Ironically, the British Isles are more logistically compact (and cooler!) than your laundry list, which you must whittle down. 4 days per destination = 5 nights; you have room for 4 destinations in 3 weeks.
• Transportation depends on the connection you are making. You would not drive from Croatia to Paris. Actually the best trips usually have a mix: fly to Paris, take the train to Provence, rent a car and drive around, etc.

Rick's book, Europe through the Back Door, is a gem for planning & newbies.

With small children, pick a country and stay put. They will enjoy the little things, not the major sights, museums, etc.

Rent a villa/home in Italy and just explore. Go up to Cinque Terre, hit Venice, Florence, etc.

I really am not sure about going to so many countries. Everyone will be exhausted from the travel.

Remember your first and last days in Europe are virtually wasted--getting to and from hotels and resting from the journey. And every time you move from city to city, you also lose a day.
If you can leave in May, you may save a little on Spring airfares vs. June airfares which are considered High Time.
Many prefer to fly open jaw--into one city and out of another. I prefer to start at the southern end of your trip and work north that time of the year. Visiting cities that are in a straight line also help, especially if they're cities that compliment each other. You might consider limiting your trip to 4 places/regions. Remember the great European cities are worthy of a 4 day minimum.
I would start in Rome (4 days) and take the fast train to Florence (3 days). Then take a fast train to Venice--skipping Cinque Terre which is on the western side of Italy.
Your next decision would be your next country/region to visit. You could either go by train or take one of the budget European airlines.
We like Budapest/Vienna/Salzburg/Munich, all great cities. Other popular stops are visiting London and Paris (2 1/2 hours on the Eurostar)--and take a fast train to Barcelona (6 1/2 hrs.) We have also mixed in 12 day cruises to Athens, the Greek Islands, Malta and over to Turkey. And a 12 day cruise out of Copenhagen to the Scandinavian cities and St. Petersburg is a great value and trip of a lifetime.
There are just so many directions and places to go. Decisions can be difficult.

I would consider taking the kids out of school the last week, if possible within attendance rules. Our experience was that they did not do much that last week. You will also need to take into account the possibility of extra days at the end of school to make up weather days. The sooner you can go, the cooler it will be in Italy. I would consider limiting your trip to Italy and Paris.

If you want a less-touristed, culture-rich experience, the Cinque Terre is not advisable.

Pick one country or at most two adjacent, i.e., Italy plus Switzerland, France plus Switzerland, Spain plus France. Possibly with 3 weeks you could do Paris, a bit of Switzerland, and a bit of northern Italy. Switzerland is amazing but costly. Worth it, though. 4 nights in the Berner Oberland May be the highlight of your trip.

Consider...

• fly into Paris, 5 nights
• Train to Switzerland’s Berner Oberland. Get an apartment in our favorite, Lauterbrunnen, so you can save some money on meals. 4 or 5 nights.
• Train to Italy - where do you want to go? Rome? Florence? Tuscan countryside? Pick two locations in Italy to round out your time. Cannot go wrong with 5 nights in Rome. Fly out of your last stop.

De read the Rock Steves’ “Europe thru the Back Door.” Very helpful to planning. More time in fewer locations makes for a more satisfying trip.

If you want to avoid the "tourist" places, you will miss most of the best places to see.

The tourist places are popular because they are awesome. Places like the Sistine Chapel are simply not to be missed if you go to Rome.

I lived overseas (Saudi Arabia for five years and Germany for four years). My kids were with me on all my travels. Kids under 10 won't remember much of what you do, but they can still enjoy some places. My kids loved our gondola ride in Venice, the Eiffel Tower in Paris and were awed by the Sistine Chapel.

Switzerland along with Scandanavia are among Europe's most costly places to visit. If you still wish to go to Switzerland, I recommend Interlakken for 3 days. Go up to the top of Youngfrau.

If you just want out of the way places with very friendly people, I recommend Portugal. Porto and the Douro River Valley are awesome. Still, there are so many places to recommend. All the countries you mentioned are great places. For Spain, I would not put Valencia at the top of the list. My favorite cities in Spain were Toledo and Seville.

The Greek Island are great and a cruise to the Aegean is wonderful.

"Will 4 days be enough per location with kids?
Any destination recommendations? Or would you recommend other areas that I haven't listed?
What's the easiest way to get around with kids? Train, car, or plane?"

I agree with others who have mentioned that four days is probably the minimum per location. You have a goal to experience local living so the longer you stay in one spot the better. And it will probably rain one of those four days, giving you an opportunity to do laundry with the locals.

In small towns you are more likely to strike up conversations with people who live there, but they are more likely to be in the local language. You don't mention that you are fluent in any languages (besides English) but if I were you I'd stay for a week in a small town where that language is spoken.

Our first trip to Europe when the children were young (8 and 11) included Glasgow, Inverary (a small town), Edinburgh, and Windsor (by car) then trains to Amsterdam and Munich. We spent way too much time getting places, though. Going in the heat of summer I'd start in Italy (pick one place, maybe Rome), then fly to Paris and train to Normandy or Brittany. Spend a week in a small town, Bayeux, for example, then finish in Paris and fly home from there. Money saved on round trip flights is time wasted getting back to a city you've already seen.

Make sure your accommodations are air conditioned if you are not used to heat. Travel in June when the days are longer and the major sites are a tiny bit less crowded. Make sure every person can carry or drag what he/she brings (bring fewer clothes and do laundry frequently). That makes getting on and off trains and planes more manageable.

Let us know how the planning goes, and if you can, post a trip report in the Trip Reports section afterwards.

We spent 3 weeks in Europe (Germany, Austria, Slovenia & Venice) this June/July with our 11 & 15 year olds. We rented a car to have more freedom. We rented apartments -finding hotel rooms with 2 beds was very hard. Loved having a kitchen (if only for the fridge) and laundry. Stayed 3 nights minimum each place. This gives you two full days to explore. It goes by fast! We didn’t try to pack too much into each day. Generally we saw some sights in the morning, had lunch and went back to the apartment for a break in the afternoon. Then back out in the evening for dinner and more sights, or just strolling the town.
My advice - find things your kids will enjoy: playgrounds, amusement parks, kids museums, alpine coasters, water parks, lakes, beaches. Let them have gelato every day. Let them start a collection on the trip - my younger son bought keychains from the cities we visited. It gave him something to hunt for!

A/C is a must. It was HOT in Venice in late June. I hate the heat and swore never again to go south of the alps in summer. We spent several afternoons in the apt in the a/c. I would prefer to travel over Christmas break. I agree with the suggestion to pull the kids out of school early to beat the heat and crowds.
Do NOT go in August. That’s peak travel time for Europeans to vacation and it will be really hot.
Cinque Terre is lovely - we went 20 years ago over Christmas. Empty. From everything I’ve read, it’s a mob scene in summer. Don’t do it.
For what you’ve described, I think Slovenia would be great. Piran has a beach, there are cool caves, Ljubljana is a beautiful small city with lots to do. Lake Bled is gorgeous, you can rent boats, explore a castle. Lippizaner stallions are nearby. It’s also a short drive to Italy if you want to see Venice, Dolomites, Lake Como. I’d start in Italy if you want to go there, to beat the heat (100 degrees in Dolomites 6/30/18).

Travel4fun, where did you encounter 100F heat in the Dolomites? I'd think that could only happen down in the valley (Bolzano, Bressanone, etc.), rather than actually up in the mountains in places like Ortisei. The valley does get hot, and many lodgings there do not think they need air conditioning. Staying at altitude usually avoids that problem.

Laurel is right about the Berner Oberland in Switzerland. Rent an apt. for several days, or even a trailer at www.campingjungfrau.swiss in Lauterbrunnen. If you want to see what it is like, click on my name, and in my profile is a link with maps and pics and trails in the area. My kids loved it and have been back several times.

In Switzerland, trains will get you everywhere you need to go, and with most passes, the kids are practically free.

I can recommend some ~17 day combos that worked for our family, all including France: (Daughter is fluent in French and I'm about intermediate level - rest of family doesn't speak much at all but we got along all right. :-) )

France/England: France for 10 days - Paris, Normandy, Loire Valley, then Eurostar to London for five days. This was partly with a Trafalgar tour, and the London part on our own. We were able to see a lot of famous places, and also explore on our own, and see things at our kids' pace (ages 8-15)

France/Switzerland: France for 10 days - split with Right Bank exploring for a few days, then out of the city to a weekend in Versailles area to stay with friends, then back to Paris to stay on the Left Bank and explore more (kids liked the Latin Quarter the best). Huge heat wave in France (over 100), and we were very happy to get into the Alps! Definitely recommend AC in hotels in the summer. We took a high speed train from Paris to Basel, then on to Luzern. We split our time between Luzern and the mountain town of Engelberg, because we wanted a snow in July on the mountain experience - and got it on Mt. Titlis. Everyone LOVED Switzerland, and if we go back, it will be to Lauterbrunnen and the Berner Oberland region. Picnics from the Coop stores offset the high prices in Switzerland for our hungry family, just FYI. (ages 15-22)

France/Spain: France for 7 days in Toulouse/Dordogne with friends, and then to Basque country and Saint-Jean-de-Luz. So beautiful!! Very family friendly. Next, to San Sebastian in Spain, which all of us loved. We had an apartment there, for the first time, and it was great for our family. Basque country is rich with history, and great food. We went from the seashore into the mountains to a sheep farm and cider house in about 45 minutes of travel. So much to see. We ended the trip in Barcelona, so graduated from private home in small towns to seaside resort to bigger town and ending with a big city experience. Barcelona was very crowded, but we enjoyed what we saw, and were ready to leave after three days. (ages 18-25)

This forum is a wonderful resource as you plan - have fun!!

Laurie