We could really use someone's expertise on modes of transportation on the following. Thanks!

I would fly from Naples to Amsterdam.

I would train the rest of the way down and not fly or rent a car. The train from Paris to Nice may seem longer than a flight, but you have to include the travel time to the airport in Paris, extra time for security, etc.

Ray
You asking some questions that really pertain to personal travel style. Looks like you are planning two weeks. An awful lot of travel for two weeks. Keep in mind that every time you change location you lose at least a half day to such mundane things as checking in and out of hotels, unpacking, re-packing, finding the hotel, finding the train station, etc. etc.

My first recommendation is cut it in half but that will probably not go over well. Second, and probably more important, book an open jaw ticket into Amsterdam and home from Naples or better from Rome (better flight options). Or the reserve. It would be easier to come home from a major airport like Rome or Amsterdam. This will save a lot of time and fair amount of money. This schedule is loaded with travel time. Have you seriously looked at a map?

Personally I don't like two days because it is really two half days and then you move on. I would drop Brussells. Four days in Nice is lot unless you planning something special in that area.

Will see what the others say.

Have to agree with the PPs. First, if you haven't yet booked tickets, fly on a multi city ticket into Amsterdam and home from Rome or Naples. Thus saving on an extra plane ticket and at least a half day of travel time. Next, forget the car rental. Take the train. A car is a hindrance in CT and worse in Naples. And third, you haven't really allowed for travel time in the days you've allotted for each place. You've stretched things really thin. Now subtract a half day from each of those stays. Not very much time in any of them to really see the sights and enjoy yourselves.

IMO you should either eliminate 1 or 2 places, or add extra days to your trip.

Raya, there's a bigger fish to fry here, as correctly pointed out by Frank above. That is: hold on - you are going from Naples to (never mind, the details aren't important) then after much running around France, Belgium, and more, then you're going back to Naples. There's your real problem.

If you're starting in Naples, do Italy first, working from Naples north, continue into the south of France, work you way to northern France, then Belgium. End the trip in Belgium, fly home from Brussels. Fly in to Naples, fly home from Brussels (or reverse the order if that works better for weather or something else). Work your way in a (more or less) linear way, rather than jumping north and south, and wasting lots of time and money as you return to your point of origin just to get on the flight home. You will spend less money and you will have more time.

Figure that Big Picture part out first, then you can get down to the finer points of train-versus-plane on individual segments.

Thanks David, but here is where we stand and we so appreciate your reply. Our trip is for 5 weeks total. We fly from SFO to Rome then take a train to Naples where our cousins live. That is our base, and I thought by staring in Amsterdam which is the top and working our way back down to Naples before our next excursion. As far as the vehicle, it was cheap from Sanremo to La Spezia and thought it might be nice to drive down 350 miles to Naples and see country side,etc. Much faster than train and cheaper. Your thoughts?

Well, you would need to run the numbers to know exactly, but here are my thoughts...

Your proposed route - from Naples (leave Rome out of it for now) to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Nice, "northwest Italy", back to Naples - that seems like one big, inefficient circle to me. Circles are generally not efficient, lines (even if they zigzag) from A to B generally are. No matter how you slice it (or why you do it), you are going from far southern Europe (Naples) to northern Europe, then going back to far southern Europe. Get out a map (one you can write on - print one from the internet) and draw your circular route. Then draw my point-to-point linear route. Which looks more efficient?

Now, I admit it's not apples-to-apples. Flying long distances (eg Naples to Amsterdam) will be fairly quick and fairly cheap. But you're still going back-and-forth. I'd rather go one-way.

Consider this:

1. Naples to Cinque Terre (train)
2. Cinque Terre to San Remo (train)
3. San Remo to Nice (train)
4. Nice to Paris (probably train)
5. Paris to Brussels (train)
6. Brussels to Amsterdam (train)
7. Fly home from Amsterdam

For the leg between Cinque Terre and Naples (regardless of which direction you go), I'd take the train. I suspect the drive would not be particularly scenic, would take longer, probably would be more expensive, and certainly would be more stressful (not to mention the headaches of having a car in Naples and CT). Airport-to-airport, jets may be faster, but trains are more efficient for city-center-to-city-center (and are more relaxing/less stressful).

One other point - you're doing this in October. You would enjoy better weather overall if you reverse the direction: fly in to Brussels, finish in Naples (fly home from Naples or Rome). Why do it that way? You start in the north before the weather turns even more cool/wet. As you proceed south, with the passing of a couple weeks, it would become warmer as you go south. If you start in the south and go north, yes you get the warmth of southern Italy, but you end in mid- or late-October in Belgium, and it might be more wet/cold by then.

Even if you have already booked your flights, I would suggest you consider changing them. By flying open jaws, you would almost certainly save time, and probably even end up saving some money (even accounting for a fee to change your flights).

I'd also echo the cautions raised above about too many short stops...try to do 3-night stops (mostly) if you can.

Hope the above all makes sense. Good luck!

Thanks David. Can you explain what a open jaw ticket is? Our tickets have been purchased, I feel we got a pretty good fare at
455.00 per round trip ticket.

Thanks

Open jaw is basically a "round trip" that's broken in the middle, allowing you to land in one place and return from another. It's generally way more efficient than doing a traditional round-trip if your plans involve moving around a bit. It goes like this:

1. Fly from home City A to City B (your outbound flight)
2. Do other stuff (none of the airline's business), getting yourself from City B to City C somehow by the end of your trip
3. Fly City C back home to City A (your return flight)

For example, for your trip (not sure where you're from - if home is New York...)

• Outbound flight: New York to Amsterdam
• (work your way via train from Amsterdam, thru Paris, etc to Naples)
• Return home flight: Rome (or Naples) to New York

Even though many of us have come to believe that a traditional "round trip" ticket saves money, going open jaw usually costs no more than a round trip, and sometimes is actually cheaper. But the real savings comes from its efficiency: you don't have to waste money and (most of all) time circling back to your arrival city just to get on the plane home. This "trick" (not circling back) usually saves you at least a day or two.

The way I look at it, for most of us, the single most constrained commodity we have is the number of days we can be away. Yes, money is also a concern (but most of us can find more money - it's hard to find more days). By flying open jaw, you can stretch your trip and do more (or slow down a little and enjoy it more).

There are times when a traditional round trip ticket makes sense. But most itineraries you see proposed here (start in City A, wind up in City Z) work best as an open jaw.

Oh, and $455 per person R/T sounds fantastic. Where are you flying from?

San Francisco... to Wash. D.C. 1.5 hrs. layover then direct to Rome. The return is the same back through Wash. D.C with a 2 hr. Layover. We couldn't turn down the fare. So our plan David, is to stay with our cousins in Naples as our base. We also have family in Palermo that we will go see as well.

Well your flights are certainly a bargain - I'm sure many here would be jealous.

I just searched for R/T flights from the Bay Area to Rome and back on random dates in October. Wow, it looks like I should be flying to Italy more often. I see multiple options pricing out at around $465 (some with an even better connection than you have: eg British Airways SJC-LHR-FCO, 1H20min layovers in London). I also live on the west coast (Seattle) and when possible I prefer not to stop on the US east coast (one long flight gives a better chance to sleep) but any of these are good.

Just for giggles I also tried an open jaw itinerary (online pricing engines usually call these "multi city"). Plugging in the same dates, but an open jaw routing, I got this:

• Outbound flight: SFO-(DUB)-AMS, start your trip in Amsterdam.
• Work your way south via train, end your trip in Naples.
• Return flight - from Naples (no need to get to Rome): NAP-(MAD)-(MIA)-SFO.
• Yeah, that's two stops on the way home, but you don't have to get to Rome.
• Prices out at $463 pp R/T - not bad!!

So if it was me, the question would be:
- How much would it cost to cancel/refund the existing ticket.
- How much would you save by going open jaws (you would start by saving the cost of flying from Naples to AMS, plus the time saved). Maybe it would be worth it, maybe not. Don't discount the TIME it would save you.

My take-away from this: flights to Italy in October are a bargain! :)

Home some of this is useful.

I think your plans are good since you have the home base with family. The only thing is I would take the train from San Remo to Cinque Terre and again from Cinque Terre down to Naples. The car is usually more than you want to mess with.

For Paris to Nice - this is one where it's kind of hard to decide. The train is long, about five hours, but as someone mentioned before, does save you the hassle of getting out to the airport etc. However, if you buy your ticket far enough in advance, the air tickets can be really good value.

I also think Nice is well worth four days, especially because you can do such good trips from there - in the bus along the corniches to Menton for the view, to St Paul de Vence or elsewhere to see other things, and Nice itself is delightful as well.

For your next trip, if you're interested in open-jaw flights, check the "Multi-city" box when you're searching airfares.

My personal threshold on train versus plane is a five and a half hour train ride. Any longer than that and I will probably fly instead. You lose time getting to the airport several hours before your flight (and it is usually on the outskirts of the city so add in that time) and again on the other end traveling from the airport into the city. On the train you can walk around, watch the scenery, work on your journal, get involved in a novel; it's very relaxing. Plus you don't have to go through security. Remember too that the baggage size standards for carry on are smaller for the less expensive flights than they are in the U.S. On a train you handle your own bags.

I did take an overnight train from Amsterdam to Munich once when I was much younger. Interesting experience. My four family members plus two strangers in a compartment where beds folded down one above the other three on each side. I didn't sleep much, would not do again.

It’s not clear why you have San Remo on your list. Is it just as a stopover place to sleep on your route? SR, itself, is not an especially compelling destination. You can take a train from Nice to SR (I’m remembering it takes about an hour.) and pick up a car there, thus avoiding the ruinously expensive fee to pick up in one country and drop off in another.

Absolutely use trains for the Amsterdam/Brussels/Paris segment. I’d add a day to Paris. Maybe take one from Nice?

That sounds like a great plan. Stick to the trains between Amsterdam-Brussels-Paris-Nice-Sanremo. With a home base in Europe (and the nice round-trip tickets) the normal multi-city open-jaw ticket plan back to the States is not necessary.

If you want to avoid the long distance back to Naples from France, you could consider an inexpensive airline and make it an open-jaw flight itinerary: Naples-->Amsterdam and then Paris or Nice-->Naples. But, personally, I think the adventure to drive along the Italian coast down to Naples sounds fantastic! Consider to train all the way to Cinque Terre. A car isn't an advantage in the Cinque Terre area. Pick up the car after Cinque Terre in La Spezia and enjoy the drive.

Naples to Amsterdam - would you fly? for 3 days

Yes

Amsterdam to Brussels - Train? for 2 days

Yes

Brussels to Paris - Train? for 2 days

Yes

Paris to Nice - would you fly? for 4 days

Yes, mostly. That said, if you find a much cheaper rail fare than discounted air fare, then I would consider the train.