Visiting as opposed to living somewhere

New topic to me, and a good one. And, yes we have experienced that.
We used to visit New Mexico to visit family - so many visits that we decided it made sense to have a second home there. And then decided to rent our full-time house out and live there for a year. We loved so many things about the place, and still do. But after awhile the constant dust, elevation, dry air, and scarcer green spaces wore on us. We also realized how much we missed our long time friends. It was a pain to establish new doctors, dentists, opthalmologists, etc. We really loved doing the many tourist things when we visited, and still loved them when we lived there, but didn't "play tourist" as much as we thought we would. Initially, everything was new and charming (cute little black widow spiders in our xeriscape yard! five cars go through the intersection after the light turns red, every stinkin time!) The thing is, we were no longer on vacation in New Mexico, and we couldn't keep that feeling alive - we had laundry to do and the entrance gate was stuck again. After our year was up, we packed our excellent native art and a lot of unique memories, and came back home.

Seemingly 8 months out of the year was like living in a sauna, sweating (again?)

8 months? LOL Granted Big Mike it seems like 8 months. It is only about 4, but for me it beats the 4 months of Chicago winters I spent for about 34 years.

Not sure of BigMike' point, but I grew up in Georgia and when you live in hot weather, you get used to it.

I can remember in the 50s and early 60s when the only places with air conditioning were churches, movie theaters, banks and perhaps an ice cream parlor. We had fans and big windows to open for a breeze to keep cool.

Now to address not living somewhere, but visit. I have read that some people actually live on cruise ships. I read that is was cheaper than living in assisted living. That wouldn't appeal to me.

What about selling your home, giving most of your stuff to your kids and travel, but visiting them for substantial periods?

That might work, but you still have to pay taxes, so you need an address, not a PO box.

We’ve lived in four states and loved the last three - all of the Pacific Northwest states.

But moving this conversation into the topic of Europe, I certainly love to go to Italy, in particular, and have stayed in 40 cities…with more coming this year! I know my personality likes things to run on time and be fairly predictable & efficient. When they’re not while I am vacationing in Italy, it’s just part of the experience & charm of the culture. I just embrace the culture and like to see & learn how others live. I’m retired; time is more flexible. Now if I considered living there full-time, I’ll be honest and say I know there’s some things relative to time - completion of paperwork, etc. that would bother me. And of course, missing more time with our kids & grandkids!

when you live in hot weather, you get used to it.

I grew up in Oklahoma, and never did get used to it. I go back now and can't imagine how I was able to do the things I did in the summers. I don't ever plan on living anywhere that hot and humid again. (I love a lot of things about Oklahoma -- just not the heat and humidity.)

But no, I have never moved somewhere and not liked it. There is always that possiblity in the future though !

I have lived in four states / one district (Oklahoma, Virginia, New York, Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia) and four countries (US, UK, Hungary, and France) and loved every single one of them. I guess I have been lucky !

KC, all of that resonates with me. And yes nothing is shiny and new forever.

Threadwear, fair enough. Maybe just not our cup of tea but obviously millions of people enjoy FLA as their home.

geovagriffith, it would get hot in West Virginia too and you just dealt with it. There was a charming little grocery just down the street, the kind that no longer really exist, and as kids we would go inside just to cool off as it was one of the few places with air conditioning. Eventually my grandparents got a window unit in their bedroom and put up a curtain in the hallway to direct some of the air into my room. It was wonderful!

Thanks, Jean, for steering this toward Europe! And yes I get what your saying.

Kim, you've been blessed although maybe you're just more resilient and adaptable than me.

I grew up in Oklahoma, and I could handle the heat, but not the winter, and the wind that really does come sweeping down the plain.

About a million years ago, I had a contract position in San Francisco. My client paid for my apartment in The Marina - and it was about as idyllic as you could imagine. We would have loved to relocate - but there was no way we could replicate the same housing situation anywhere near that location, let alone the square footage.

How about the opposite? Born in raised in Sacramento with 110+ degree summers before houses with a/c were common and no I never got use to it. We raised a family there, and yes, we had a/c unlike my parents and a swimming pool. Skip forward 20 years and discover Bend, Oregon. Yes, it was a hassle to change doctors, dentists, legal affairs and have the deer and bunnies eat my short season blooms but there’s no way I would move back. Would I move to Europe after experiencing what it took just to move to another state? Absolutely not but I sure like visiting for weeks at a time!

I guess our experience in Pittsburgh would qualify. I had a subconsultant there that I visited frequently as we did many projects together. I loved going there; the restaurants, night life, arts scene and sports were great attractions, and I was (and remain) a great admirer of the Pittsburgh Symphony.

When I finally was able to escape the deep South, it was by accepting a position in Pittsburgh. And then we realized what a PITA daily life can be there, as I had to drive through the Squirrel Hill tunnel to and from work every day (if you've lived there, you know). Five years was enough, before we returned to our "point of origin" in central Ohio. But I still have very fond memories of the Steel City, and the people are really great there (and the restaurants are, in my long experience, unequaled).

It is hard to compare living somewhere as a child and then going back as an adult. One is carefree and the other has responsibility. Plus as one ages they become more set in their ways and intolerant to things that as a child they never engaged with.
On this forum one sees people return again and again to familiar places, as a tourist, as an adult. That is the set in the ways approach. Perhaps not so much set as comfortable without the desire to go somewhere new that may be uncomfortable. So travel to Italy time and again starts to seem like going to uncle Bill’s lake cabin every summer. There is the known factor and the comfort of knowledge of place.
You can’t go home again, said Thomas Wolfe.

Some travel, some become expats. May be the difference between Mark Twain and David Livingstone. One passes and observes, the other lives like a local.

That's how I feel about Charleston. The polltical power structure on Isle of Palms and the state government in Columbia couldn't care less about permanent residents. All they care about is getting as much money as possible from tourists. I expected the traffic but not the ugly fight over "our right to earn money from short-term rentals" and the extreme influx of outsiders who are staying permanently and driving up house prices way beyond the reach of locals. The so-called "affordable housing" that's being built might be affordable for physical therapists and nurse practitioners but not for teachers, firemen, and policemen. And yes, I realize that I would currently qualify as an outsider, although our daughter was born in the state when we previously lived in Columbia for 25 years.

treemoss2, good point. Perhaps some people as adults became enthralled by a locale, moved there and it didn't work out. That would be the case for my former work colleague from Scotland who vacationed in Florida as an adult, moved there upon retirement, and then moved back north because it wasn't what he expected. Now, no disrespect to FLA or anywhere else, but everyone is different and what suits some folks is anathema to others. Obviously FLA and the desert southwest is quite popular among retirees and others, but not so much for me. Visiting, fine.

We love Ireland but I doubt we'd like living there due to the long, wet, cold, and dark winters. Again, just not our cup of tea. We lived in Germany for 8 years and this wore on us over time. Again, still love visiting.

cala, we love Charleston, SC (but not so much Charleston, WV). The architecture and history are fascinating. Same with Savannah.

edit: I'm Big Mike but on this other laptop I can't figure out how to post under my original username. I'm an idiot.

BigMike--We were stationed Orlando in 1990 and your descriptions brings back vivid memories. I remember the day we arrived and it was so exciting. That excitement was squashed pretty quick. I was in banking, and remember getting off work at 5 and standing outside in my suit waiting for my husband to pick me up. I was drenched with sweat every day. The first thunderstorm there, I truly that I was going to die that night as I had never experienced anything like that. Taking a girl from the PNW and sticking her in FL was an enormous culture shock. I never adapted to the weather. We went from there to Idaho, which I had never been to either, but it was close to home and I was used to cold winters. I loved that. Then to coastal GA for 3.5 years. Again, I did not adapt to that weather.

I have lived in 9 different states, several of them multiple times. I am grateful to all the military moves during my husbands' career and it solidified to both of us what we like and what we don't like. The one thing that we did miss even when we were living in places we loved (like upstate NY), was family. All of our family was in OR and WA, and grandparents in CA. That was tough, but the good thing about living so far away that is we became experts on flying cross country with kids. I remember flying with a 3 month old and 2.5 yr old by myself. I learned so much from all that, so am grateful.

After my husband retired we stayed here in the PNW and love to travel, but love coming back home.

We love love love traveling in Italy and had spent considerable time traveling there when I was offered a 3 year tour serving in the embassy. Jumped at the chance and reveled in three years living in Rome with the benevolent umbrella of the US Embassy to provide us with excellent housing , a buffer to much of the bureaucracy, and a Diplomatic Post Office.

We retired in Rome, and it was still a great experience but the full force of Roman dysfunction hit once we were on our own. It got tiresome. I miss a lot about living there — the food above all but also excellent medical care, the ability to travel easily by train, our car-free lifestyle — but daily life issues can overwhelm and we were happy to get back to where we understand how everything works.

Long and short of it, you are 100% right: living somewhere is very different from visiting even if you are trying to be a “temporary local.”

Interesting topic, Mike. I'm the opposite (well, sort of). I grew up outside of Cincinnati and spent most of my adult life (except for 2 years in Evergreen, CO) living and working in the city and loved it. But when I retired early, it made sense to move to where my daughter (and only child) lived with her family, so I uprooted to Minnesota. I had no real desire to go there other than to be near my daughter, although I'd been visiting there for years so was pretty familiar with it.

I would never have chosen this state on my own, but I have grown to love it. It's a gorgeous state with incredible scenery, parks, lakes and green space galore, and more important, it's a state that cares about the entire population, and wants to make sure everyone is happy. Yes, winters can be tough, but that just makes it more fun to anticipate spring. And there is the option of visiting family in Florida every winter, which makes for a nice balmy break. :-)

So when my son began his Air Force service he got to name where he wanted to be assigned. No guarantee, but they let him "request". He wanted to live in a small town so he looked at all of the bases and choose one in a small town in the US. He was amazed and happy they gave it to him. I guess he should have researched Minot, ND a little more before listing it.

Good news, after that he could choose and get just about anyplace he wanted. So Texas followed by Germany.

Mr. E: That's the way it was when I was in the AF. If you took an unpopular assignment like Minot AFB or Earekson Air Station in the Aleutian Islands, then you were prioritized for your next tour of duty, so we chose Heidelberg for four years and then another four years at Bitburg. You also had the choice of Thule AFB, Greenland. Nope. We also put in for RAF bases at Lakenheath and Mildenhall but it didn't work out.

Maybe a better way to phrase this question is as follows: Is there a place you enjoy(ed) visiting but may not want to live there? For us that would be any big city like London or Paris.

mikliz97: I can certainly relate to your post regarding all of the military moves and the positives about that. We always made it a point to live on the "economy" instead of base housing, but again to each their own. I often drove to and from work in just a t-shirt and then upon arrival put on my shirt, tie, and suit coat. With modern cars with remote starting you could now get the AC going and wait inside for a few minutes. My sister-in-law lives in Port Angeles and we love that area. We also hiked around Mt. Rainier and got absolutely drenched in cold showers. Good times in retrospect. It took a 10-minute hot shower to get my core temperature up. Whew!

Mardee: I've never been to Minnesota but love what I see online about the state. At almost 64 years old my issue with winter is falling on the ice and snow because I don't bounce as well as I used to. Yes, we have spikes to put on our shoes and all of that but I tire of shoveling and putting out some salt. On the plus side it's a great workout! This is what I like about seasons in that you appreciate the changes, or as David Bowie sang, Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes.

Laurel, appreciate your post. I guess we all have to find our cup of tea so to speak. As geovagriffith mentioned some people choose to live on cruise ships and apparently like it. That would be a sort of hell for me lol.

Kim, you've been blessed although maybe you're just more resilient and adaptable than me.

I doubt that. If I moved to humid Florida, I don't think I would enjoy it very much either !!! I was just lucky to move to places that fit for me. But there is (mostly) no way of knowing that before you do it.

Estimated Prophet:

I grew up in Oklahoma, and I could handle the heat, but not the winter,

I think we are from opposite ends of the state. I never knew what winter was until I moved to Budapest and Boston.

BigMike--We only living in housing once in all those years. Mt Rainier is a great place to hike! My husband was a mountaineer for many years and has summited it numerous times, same with our son. The Olympic Peninsula is great. We usually skip it in the summer as the crowds are too much now, lol. We would have jumped at the chance to be stationed overseas, especially Greenland or Iceland, but submarines were not there.

We have enjoyed much of Europe, but living there is different. The only place that we think we would really enjoy it is Iceland. That may happen down the road, will see. We have given it serious thought for quite some time.

”…Perhaps not so much set as comfortable without the desire to go somewhere new that may be uncomfortable. So travel to Italy time and again starts to seem like going to uncle Bill’s lake cabin every summer.”

My husband & I traveled to different countries each year for several years, and I have been to most of the continents. Ever since the Covid years, so many of us have upped our travel since time certainly is limited! I agree with Treemoss2 that there can be that comfortable feeling of hearing Italian - something known, even though I stay in new regions each time in Italy, plus trips each year to other countries. There’s always more to explore in Europe….or as is stated on Rick’s front page of this website, “Europe Never gets Old!” : )

BTW, Rick looks super fit in the picture on the front page. Perhaps he can share his diet and exercise regimen.

One thing that is often underestimated, both within the US and especially for those moving abroad, is culture shock. I mean, we all know about the major things like tipping culture, but how do you feel about suddenly being expected to bag groceries at lightning speed? How hard is it to make friends, especially local friends? What about weird things like what to do if there is a wasp nest outside your window, but wasps are protected and you aren't allowed to remove it? What about finding a doctor or dentist or car mechanic? Did you know it was bad luck to do something you would do out of politeness in the US? What if you forget to [bring flowers, take off your shoes, whatever] when you are invited to someone's home? How do you feel about small talk? Animals in public spaces? Availability of certain products or daily items?

Then there are normal factors of living in a different place. Those long summer nights are suddenly balanced by super dark winters--is that okay? The pace or rhythm or transportation norms might be different (who has ever used a golf cart as the primary vehicle? Yet in The Villages, FL or Peachtree City, GA, that might be the norm). Your accent might make you stick out. The housing prices might be insane.

It's easy to fall in love with a place, only to have the reality come crashing down around you. Or to find that you had a harder time adjusting than you expected. Moving is a big deal always. Some people handle it well--especially if they moved a few times when they were young. Younger, single folks with few attachments or possessions and older, financially secure folks with few job responsibilities/empty nesters do better than families, but of course that's a MAJOR generalisation.

And once you adjust, you can never go back. Moving changes you, and the world you left moved on without you--the new you does not fit into the old space you left, even if you reclaim your home, job, and routines. That isn't always bad, but it is often a surprise.