Venice to Munich June 2017

I think you'll have to forget the Cinque Terre this trip.

Venice - 3N
Florence - 3N
Via Verona to Lake Garda - 2N
Via Innsbruck to Salzburg - 3N
(Day to Berchtesgaden)
Munich - 3N

Yes, you'll need to make a decision. Do the Cinque Terre and short change the Munich/Austria portion. Going to the Cinque Terre will result in a full travel day to get to the Dolomites. Just a part of the Italian Alps, but the part that is really special. You might go to Ortisei, with a bus ride from Bolzano or Bressanone.
Decisions, decisions.

I think you'll have to forget the Cinque Terre this trip.
Venice - 3N
Florence - 3N
Via Verona to Lake Garda - 2N
Via Innsbruck to Salzburg - 3N
(Day to Berchtesgaden)
Munich - 3N

I agree with dropping Cinque Terra on this trip. It is still fast paced. With the travel, you will lose a half day, remember to count time checking out, getting to the train station, then from the train station to your lodging and checking in in the next town. So this leaves much less time than you thought.

After Innsbruck, I would go straight to Munich and you can day trip to Salzburg and Berchtesgarden with a 29 Euro Bayern Ticket. It is only about two hours from Munich to Salzburg.

If you really want to see the Italian Alps, I would stay in Italy and visit Austria and Munich on another trip. That way, you can add Cinque Terra. Venice, Florence, Cinque Terra, Lake Garda, the Dolomites the home from either Venice or Milan.

Susan,

IMHO, you'll need to trim the number of cities you'll be visiting. You've listed Venice, Munich, Florence, Cinque Terre, the lakes, southern Germany/Austria (including Berchtesgaden) and the Italian Alps, and a time frame of 14 travel days. I'm assuming that doesn't include your two flight days? That's an average of 1.75 days per stop, with no allowances for travel times between locations. Something has to give.

Could you clarify a few details....

• have you visited Europe before?
• are you familiar with travel by train, especially in Italy?
• where are you flying from?

You might find it helpful to make a list of all the places you want to visit, ranked in order of priority. For a time frame of 14 days, pick the top five or six on the list and start with that. I'd suggest skipping the Cinque Terre and the lakes this time, as they don't fit well with the route to the other places you want to visit. In planning your route, keep in mind that each change of location will take at least four hours, and in some cases longer.

Once you have a more realistic list to work with, it will be easier for the group here to offer more detailed Itinerary suggestions.

Thank you so much for these helpful suggestions. Here is more information about our limitations and travel experience. Our plane reservations are already made :( so we have to fly out of Munich. We are using credit card miles and I was attempting to find the shortest travel times and the lowest cost. We travelled to England 5 years ago and did the planning on our own. We used trains and buses to travel around there.
After talking over your advice, we are thinking of omitting Austria/Germany (except to fly home). We will come back in another 5 years, hopefully. Then, how about:

• Venice 3 n
• Florence 3n
• Cinque Terre 3n
• Lake Garda 2n
• ?????

I know we don't want to be too rushed. We want to experience the history and art of Italy and enjoy some down time. Thank you so much for your input. It is really so helpful when one is doing the planning oneself!!

So you have two nights left? And need to be in Munich that last night for your flight, or do you have two to spend along the way?

The train from Verona ( your access point from Lago di Garda) to Munich goes right through Bolzano, the gateway to the Dolomites. Take the local bus a short ride to Castelrotto and overnight there, or continue into Val Gardena or ride the cablecar up to Alpe I'd Siusi.

Return to Bolzano to continue on the train to Munich---If I recall correctly it is about four hours on the direct train ( but I did not confirm that).

Edit: confirmed the travel time. There are direct trains at 10:34, 12:34, 14:34, etc. that take just under four hours. Discount tickets for June are not on sale yet, but I believe we paid about 32€ each for these.

https://rabdc.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=4142&protocol=https:&seqnr=4&ident=79.011712442.1482085047&rt=1&rememberSortType=minDeparture&application=PRINTVIEW&guiVCtrl_connection_detailsPrintOut_initFrom_group_overviewOut=1&guiVCtrl_connection_detailsPrintOut_setStatus_all_overview=yes&groupOut=overview&showOut=yes&initialPrintview=yes

We fly home at 12:40 p.m. on the 21st, so we'd want to be in Munich on the 20th. This is the way I see the dates so far...

• Venice Arrive June 6 9:10 a.m.
• Venice-3 nights June 6, 7, 8 , 9th toFlorence
• Florence- 9, 10 11, 12th to Cinque Terre
  
• Cinque Terre-12, 13, 14th to Lake Garda
• Lake Garda-14, 15, 16 to Bolzano/Castelrotto/ 18, 19, 20
• Munich on the 20th and fly home 21st

Edit and advise, please!

Susan,

Your most recent Itinerary looks much more reasonable. A few additional thoughts and questions.....

• Venice - have you looked at the methods for travelling in from the airport?
• Rail travel - are you planning to buy your tickets in advance? There are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of when using trains and other public transit in Italy. If you need more information, I can send you my usual "boilerplate" on the subject. I like to minimize travel times and number of changes, and you can see all the details on the Trenitalia website.
• Cinque Terre - have you decided which of the five towns you want to stay in? You'll need to know that when buying your tickets. Everyone here has a preference, and I prefer Monterosso as it's the largest and therefore has the greatest number of hotels, restaurants and other amenities, as well as the best beaches of the five. It's also larger so easier to escape from the cruise ship hordes, should groups be there at the time you'll be visiting.
• Lake Garda - I would have suggested another of the lakes, but in this case it works well with the route so is the logical choice. You'll need to choose which town you stay in. Not all of them have rail access, so that's something to consider. My suggestion would be Peschiera del Garda as it has good rail access, which will facilitate your onward journey (it's close to Verona, where you'll transfer for the trip through the Brenner Pass to Munich). It's a very scenic town and also has good access to the boats for taking day trips on the lake. Other locations further up the lake such as Malcesine or Limone sul Garda are only accessible by Bus, which will add to your travel times.
• Bolzano / Castelrotto - which of those two locations were you planning to stay? Are you aware of the route to get from Bolzano to Castelrotto? Numerous posters here have also suggested Ortisei, so that's another location you could look at.
• Munich - If possible I'd adjust the dates slightly to get at least two nights in Munich so you can have a look around. There's lots to see there. Have you looked at hotels in Munich yet?

I'd also suggest packing along a copy of the RS Italy 2017 guidebook, as it will be a valuable resource both in planning and while touring in Italy.

So you have 15 nights all up, with 4 nights in the Dolomites?

Venice - 3N
Florence - 3N
Cinque Terre - 2N
Lake Garda - 2N
Dolomites - 4N
Munich - 1N

Thank you, Ken and all! Such great information and questions for us to consider. I'm thinking we will extend our stay in Vernazza to 3 nights. That means we would leave there on the 15th. That puts us in Lake Garda on the 15th. You mention this isn't the Lake town you would choose. R.S. recommends staying in Varenna on Lake Como. Thoughts? We could head to Munich on the 18th and see more around there (skip the Dolomites).
I assumed we would take train/bus from the airport to Venice. I haven't started looking at train schedules yet. I have the R.S. Guide to Italy and the Michelin Green Guide to Italy.
Thanks so much!!

"You mention this isn't the Lake town you would choose. R.S. recommends staying in Varenna on Lake Como. Thoughts?"

Varenna on Lago di Como is a good choice, as it's easily accessible by train (about one hour from Milano Centrale). It's a good location to explore Bellagio or some of the other towns along the lake. My top choice would probably be Lago Maggiore and the town of Stresa as it provides a greater choice of activities (at least, activities that would interest me). In Stresa you could explore the elegant Borromeo Islands including Isola Bella, which has a beautiful Villa and ornate gardens (complete with Peacocks). You could also take a trip up Mt. Mottarone for some fantastic views (provided it's not hazy). One of my favourite activities there is to take a day trip to Locarno (CH) on the scenic Cento Valli Railway, returning to Stresa in the evening by boat. I can list a few sights in Locarno if you're interested.

The issue with both Lago Maggiore and Lago di Como is that either one will add slightly to the transportation time to your next destination. However since your next stop is Bolzano, the travel times aren't really too bad. From Stresa to Bolzano is about 5.5 hours (depending on which train you choose) and from Varenna about 4.5 hours (again depending on train). Each of those trips will have between one and three changes, so you'll have to be up to speed on that.

Despite travel times, I'd definitely choose either Maggiore or Como instead of Garda, but that's just my preference.