Venice or Amsterdam?

I have driven the Southern part of Germany and Austria. The roads are pretty good (much better than Ireland) but you should figure on driving taking longer than you would think. You will be going slower than you are used to in the USA and of course, you will be stopping to see the sights. Driving is great for freedom, but my experience is that it really chews up your schedule if you aren't careful. Venice is more of a walking town and we love it because you can't get lost and you can just throw away the map and explore. Crowds are not the problem so much as the narrow streets force people to bump into each other and the five of you would not be able to walk side by side. Amsterdam is more open and spread out, great for biking. The ambiance is completely different between the two and both are great in their own way. I only recommended Amsterdam because of the bike option and because it involved less back and forth as your first option. I hope that helps. Sounds like a great trip.

I have been to all of the places you are considering. I would suggest your second option because it is more of a straight line and less flying. Not sure how old your kids are but Amsterdam is great for a family, especially if you like to ride bikes. You could easily rent some bikes from the train station and ride all around as a family and really enjoy it. It is really flat and easy to manage. Lots of bike lanes. Venice would be hard to stay together as it is really crowded. I would also suggest cutting Dublin unless there is a compelling reason to go. For us, Dublin was not that great and you could use those days in other areas on your list. Plus, not having to do the airport thing again with a family of five would be nice too. I would also suggest you pick up a few of the Rick Steves travel books and videos. Those really help me with my planning and decision making.

I too like the second option. I've done that trip a couple of times. You could pick the rental car up in Cologne and head up river. I like to stay in Bacharach for one night. See Bavaria Ben at http://www.bensbauernhof.com for info on the Rhine & Mosel River Valleys.
From Munich area, you can easily drop down into Austria to get the mountain vistas of the Alps if time permits. Munich is also great for kids, with a wonderful museum and royal palaces.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your input! My kids are 19, 17 and 13. We can't cut Dublin as both of my boys said Ireland, specifically Dublin, was their top choice to visit. Our daughter's vote is Paris, my husband's is London and I am dying to see the Alps (I am NOT much of a a city girl) and want to experience some small towns. How many days do you think would be sufficient to drive from Cologne to Munich stopping everyday to see sites. Bacharach, St. Goar and Rheutenberg are in Rick Steve's Best of Europe book. I was actually thinking the first option would get me more Alps views and still would be seeing the Munich area, Salzburg and Fussen. But, we'd miss the Rhine. Have you ever driven across that southern stretch of Germany, Austria or the Appenzell area of Switzerland? How crowded is Venice? Was thinking Amsterdam and Venice were somewhat similar cities because of all the canals was why I was looking to see one but not both. So torn...
Further thoughts anyone? :)

I have been to all the places you are talking about as well, and both options have a lot to offer. While option 2 might be more efficient I like the addition of Venice especially as it will give the kids a touch of Italy. Driving in Germany is good, and you could easily drive from Munich to Salzburg and explore along the way instead of the train. I would spent one night in Salzburg, if possible. Lots to consider, but if I only had one trip to Europe I would have regretted never seeing Venice.

Since you are soliciting personal opinions, I'll throw in my 2 cents. The contrast between Amsterdam and Venice is an interesting one. Venice was the commercial hub of Europe until the Spanish, Portuguese, followed by the Dutch discovered how to do and end-around on Venice's lock on trade with the East. Venice and Amsterdam both are chock full of canals because that is the best way to move large quantities of merchandise. Both cities were founded in swamps for defensive reasons, but turned out giving them commercial advantages when they figured out how to engineer the canals to move goods. So back to the original question: do Venice and the Alps. Kids will appreciate the mountain scenery. Venice is serene (La Serenissima) when you ignore the zillions of fellow tourists during the daytime. Amsterdam is somewhat edgy (that's what makes it so much fun). You did not say your kids' ages. Strollers would be problematic in Venice with all the stepped bridges. Wait till the kids are in college and they can REALLY appreciate Amsterdam.

We prefer Bavaria to the Rhine/Mosel area of Germany. Both are very nice, but we love mountains, lederhosen, and accordion playing in Bavaria! We also love Venice. There is nothing else in the world like Venice. Stay away from the tourists and walk deeper into the residential areas and small canals. And Switzerland, one of my favorites! (wish you had time for Gimmelwald) I would choose option # 1. Just thinking about it makes me smile...sounds like a fabulous trip!

I'll show my bias first. IMO Venice is magic, Amsterdam approaches seedy - both get more than their share of tourist crowds. That said. The first itinerary is too much, the second seems more workable. The roads in Germany are easy. They're in good shape and the signage is logical. Just stay out of the left lane unless you're passing (and then pass quickly and get back over). There are rush hours in Germany, so don't plan to drive into, or through, a city during rush times.

Susan, Good for you for 1) having your Teens help plan the itinerary and 2) not trying to go everywhere on the one trip.
My personal fav is Amsterdam, so I vote for that option. But both cities are unique and amazing. Have a great time.

Venice and Amsterdam do not look like much, at least that's my opinion. I do not know how many cities in the world are defined: The Venice of the North, the Venice of the East, but in fact no city in the world has its structure, to have canals and being built on 118 islands are two very different things. Both your choices are interesting and I myself would have a hard time choosing, but I repeat that Venice is incomparable.

my ha'penny? I've spent plenty of time in both Amsterdam and Venice, two of my favourite places. I strongly believe that they are completely different and not really similar at all. Yes, they both have a quantity of water, although to me, the similarity really ends there. To me they are completely different. These days I always vote for Venice. Will it be crowded in June/July? Yup. Very crowded? Yup, especially after the cruise ships disgorge their teeming cargo every day. Not so much before they land, and even less so after they leave, which is why it is critical that you are there in the evening and early morn. However - those are my prejudices and you and yours may feel much different and have good reasons for visiting Amsterdam.. Just don't think of it as a Venice stand-in because it most definitely is not. Can I be so bold as to suggest your itinerary does look like you've run wild in a candy store - as Europe can most definitely be - and by trying to please 5 people with the thing on the menu which most appeals to each made a pretty difficult trip for all. It is a l-o-n-g way to go to see all you want on both itineraries. I don't know how you settled on Appenzell but the Alps it ain't - if your purpose to go to Switzerland is Alps there are places not terribly far away with them. May I suggest that a fast TGV train from Basel to Paris will be quicker overall and much nicer than flying? I hope that all 5 of you have a wonderful trip. I'd just suggest concentrating in a smaller number of areas. Just curious - if you don't mind - what drew the boys to Dublin? OK - not a ha'penny... more like 2/6. Sorry.

Hi Susan, I've been to all of those places except Dublin. I would highly recommend Dublin – 3 days, London – 3 days. Take the train via the Chunnel into Paris. Paris – 4-5 days. Fly to Venice. Venice – 3 days. Train to Verona (you'll love it!) – 2 days. Train/bus or rent a car to the Dolomites. Moena is lovely – 2-3 days. Fly out of the nearest city. Moena is absolutely beautiful, and you'll avoid a lot of travel time trying to go to Germany or Switzerland for similar scenery. We've been to Europe several times and try to really minimize our travel time to enjoy the trip so much more – especially important with kids along. Our hotel in Moena was up the slope on the edge of town (for the best views!), and it was the traditional Alpine hotel overflowing with window boxes of red/pink flowers. Interesting to know you're in Italy, but the area has the Austrian history and German language from all of the changeovers during wars, etc. We hiked and slept very well during those days! Venice is wonderful - completely different depending on the time of day and location. Between the Rialto Bridge and San Marco, it's usually a tourist crowd, especially during the middle of the day with people coming into Venice (cruise ships, plus it's expensive, so most tours hotels on the mainland.) Move away from the main path, and you'll enjoy it so much more. Leave the map in your pocket and explore! During the morning and late afternoon/evening, Venice is magical! In the evenings, San Marco becomes a beautiful stroll with alternating musical orchestras, the quaint maze of paths ending in outdoor restaurants and gondoliers on canals with a backdrop of ancient buildings and flowers all combine into a unique, romantic setting. You definitely don't want to miss it!

Part 2: Don't worry about the trains. You'll be stopping at locations where several people will be exiting, so just go along with the crowd. My husband and I travel exclusively by train in Europe. But, we always travel with our typical carry-on bag, only, which is essential for all of the quick hops on trains and navigating through Venice and up the hillside in Moena. Place everything inside your bag, and you'll have one hand free to exit the trains easily. Also, we bring a snack for our trips on the train to be ready to go explore when we arrive at the next destination. Enjoy your trip – memories for a lifetime! (If you want more specifics on any of these places, etc. contact me.)

Thanks so much for all the great input. I am wondering if maybe we are trying to do too much based on a few comments to that affect. I thought I had already shaved quite a bit off from my original list but maybe not enough. Traveling with 5 is going to be challenging with accommodations (most places we will need to get 2 rooms, places we are staying for 3 nights, we will attempt to rent an apt.) and actually it appears to be significantly less expensive to fly between destinations than to train. By like >60% in most cases. In both of my options I have at least 1 train ride involved because I do want to experience it but the rest are flights due to the economical advantage mixed with nerves since I read several places that you really have to move fast to get on and off trains and I have already had visions of the doors closing and my little one still on when we are off....
Will continue to mull it all over and post again for further recs from all you seasoned travelers. :)

When I read your question, I wasn't thinking about A-dam's moniker as the "Venice of the North". I was only thinking about the two destinations and which would work for your trip better. I like Nigel's comment. You should ignore anything that says "xxx of the North" or similar phrase. Why they use it so much in Europe boggles me. Amsterdam has canals but it's nothing like Venice - not even a little bit. Salzburg (I think) is also referred to as the Venice of the North - because of some of the architecture. I love Salzburg. It's one of the most beautiful little cities I've ever visited - but it's not a substitute for Venice. A lot of times when I see a title like that, I'm tempted to skip the sight altogether because I've already been to the "real" one. Don't skip them, however, they're generally good sights - just not replicas or replacements of whatever is named.

The number of disparate destinations you have on this trip reminds of the trip we took with our then-17yo and 13yo kids last May. Everyone had a different vote for where they wanted to go, so our itinerary was: London - Scotland (Edinburgh & time in the countryside) - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam in 16 days. My husband and daughter thought our pace was fine; son and I felt rushed. Even though we all enjoyed the trip. And the biggest difference was that except for Scotland (which I had visited as a child), my husband and I had visited all of those places previously, so we knew the layouts of the cities, the hotel locations we wanted, how to get around, how to navigate the train stations and airports, etc. So there was less wasted time in getting from place to place. That's an advantage that you don't have. And, because we'd taken one kid or the other to each of those destinations previously (except Scotland), we viewed the trip as: "what do we feel like seeing" - not "we must see X, Y and Z here." That's what you'll need to do too, with the amount of time you have. So really consider, and review with your family, the amount of time you will have in each (very wonderful) location. As in: assume each time you change locations, it will eat up about 1/2 day, between packing up stuff, checking out of hotel, getting to train station / airport, taking transport, getting to the next lodging, checking in. What do they really want to do with two full days in Dublin, London, etc. And are they ok with packing up and moving on that often. And FYI, son's favorite city is London or Edinburgh; daughter's is Paris. We all love Venice, too.

Just one caution driving from Munich to Salzburg. The freeway in Germany is free, when you cross into Austria it is a toll road but without any toll booths or ticket booths. Stop at a service station on the German side before you enter Austria and get a toll sticker for the Austrian toll road. If you don't and get caught, it will be a hefty fine. The signage about this might be less than clear, especially if you're not aware of this "unique" toll situation (it's the only one like this I've found anywhere else). Enjoy your trip.

Victor: Switzerland and Slovenia also do this. The sticker is called a vignette (pronounced veen-YET-uh), and it is the way toll roads are paid for in those countries. For Austria and Slovenia, they are available for various durations; for Switzerland, you must get one for the calendar year. Yes, there are posts here from people who didn't know about the system and got expensive tickets.

Neat things about Amsterdam: (cuz I sorta dissed it before) Wonky wobbly old buildings propped up against each other like teeth before the orthodontist. Dutch food is different - pancakes the size of large dinner plates, one for each person, with all sorts of toppings - menus in many languages; vending machines with various types of deep fried crokkets (yeah, I know its like deep fried Mars Bars in Edinburgh but when you gotta have it you gotta have it); raw Amsterdamse Herring; chocolate sprinkles on bread for breakfast ... Trams Bicycles Boats Vice. Flowers and bulbs - but not bulbs in July. It is a very different place, and very Dutch. Less zippy stuff about Amsterdam: Bikes - they will run you over. Trams - ditto. Vice - there's plenty and maybe it is too in your face - and nostrils. ... etc...

I'm looking at the umbrella I bought one rainy day in Amsterdam, and in fact, the "XXX of the North" may not be to far off base. :-)

I typed up a reply earlier today, but somehow it didn't get posted so I will try again: Thank you to all of you for your thoughts and suggestions! We have decided on the following itinerary since our teens want to "see it all" and promise to be "helpful"...wish us luck! Flying in to Shannon Airport (thanks for the suggestion to see the countryside first, then the city) See Cliffs of Moher, drive to Dingle via the tunnel under the Shannon River (thanks again!), 2 nights in Dingle, drive to Dublin airport to drop off car rental stopping in Cashel on way, 2 nights in Dublin, fly to London, stay 3 nights, chunnel to Paris, stay 3 nights, train to Amsterdam stopping off in Brussels for a few hours, stay in Amsterdam 2 nights, fly to Venice, stay 2 nights, drive to Salzburg (4 hour ride), stay 2 nights, drive to Garmisch-P to see Zugspitze, stay overnight, see Neuschwanstein Castle, then drive to Munich Airport hotel and fly home next day. It will be busy but we will have no regrets over what we didn't get to see.
Any further thoughts or suggestions with this itinerary?

I would agree with cutting Dublin. All in all, we found it boring, overcrowded, and other than drinking Guiness, offered very little. We would not go back. Amsterdam, Paris, and I would place instead of Dublin, Brugge. If you just did this, I think a lot less traveling would offer your family the best vacation ever. I would do a second vacation that included Southern France, Switzerland, and Germany. We did this last year, and all went well, other than a speeding ticket in Luzern!!! Have a great time!!!

Susan... just rest up before you go. It will be a whirlwind, but it will give you tons of reasons to return. When I take one of my grandkids on a trip I always insist that they write in a journal/trip log every night. And on this trip it is probably even more important as you are doing so many things. It is amazing how you can be so overwhelmed with sights, food, etc. that you forget what you did yesterday. I just made up my own trip log and added pages for more journal writing and sketching, etc. at the back. But, each day has its own page with where we stayed, sites we saw, memorable moments, memorable meals, quirky things that happen as well as reasons to return or something we missed. They have lots of these journals now. I also make a slideshow of the trip and a book after we get home (I am a photographer, but there are tons of programs to do it) Have a wonderful time.