US issued Chip-n-Pin

Reading the description, it sounds like the real deal. Further reading indicates that you only have to do the odd pin activation only if you want to use a pin different than the one initially assigned.

Mine is a World MC from somebody else. I can't remember if I first used it as a swiper or a chipper or in what nation, but the uncustomized chip feature worked fine without any initial hoopla.

It also illustrates one of the more technical issues behind the slowness of chip and PIN in the USA. In Europe the ATMs are nearly if not all chip-enabled which allows maintenance tasks there, such as setting a new PIN, and activation. This infrastructure is lagging behind in the USA.

Just make sure the technology is Chip and Pin as many of the US banks cards that have a chip are actually Chip and Signature not the full Chip and Pin.

I have a chip and pin card and my first transacation with the chip last year was at a kiosk at Milano Centrele buying a train ticket to Varenna. No problems with the 4 digit pin I was given for the card. Had my tickets in minutes.

Used the new Barclaycard at Walmart. They have new readers; the card can't be swiped, but must be inserted into the pin reader part of the machine, and then sign as usual.

If you have to sign it is not a true pin and chip card but rather a chip and signature card. If you have a pin and chip card once you put the card into the reader it will ask for your pin number. After you enter the pin number it verifies the card and then you remove it, no signature required. Yes, I have a pin and chip card and have used it both here in the US and in Italy.

Jon ,

I would follow the instructions as per your bank. No use screwing things up by doing what other people say. Its your banks card and their rules, not yours or others.

Just so you know, I've been reading a lot on this and if you want to read through 15+ years of a thread regarding this, i can direct you to a link.

but just some highlights of what i have read and from peoples experiences.

So far, as of today, any Smart Card "chip & pin" (CNP) or "chip & signature" (CNS) card issued in the USA will be defaulted to CNS.

There are 3 methods to validate the transaction. CNP, CNS and whatever the banks decide to make up in the future. There is an order of "verification" on the cards and from what i understand its up to the bank to make that decision. Any USA card will be CNS first and CNP last or 2nd. What it comes down to is that if there is a person behind that card machine, it will work as a CNS and will spit out a receipt to sign. If you go to an unmanned machine, it should act as a CNP and ask for a PIN. Some people have had it work and some not. So if i was you and driving through the back 40 i would carry some cash.

For whatever reason the USA banks is bucking the system and feel that WE like to sign things. At least thats what some CEOs have said. Of course you know how disconnected the 1% is from the 99%. So it doesnt surprise me.

If i were you, i would have some cash whenever you try to buy something or just be prepared to use a different card or have to get cash.

also, some of the people behind the machines won't know how to use your card either. a big thing is that the cost of fraud is being moved from the banks eating it to the merchants and as some merchants aren't that big like banks as as such those small merchants aren't too happy to use our swipe cards.

PIN numbers. this has varied, but from what i understand about some banks, is that the PIN is mailed separately. Also some banks won't let you change your PIN.

In my opinion, a lot of this is still in flux and I'm sure there will be more changes ahead. Its just for us travelers, it sucks. There were a couple USA cards that were suppose to be true CNP, but it appears that the banks/credit unions changed the validation order recently So, i guess you just have to find out like the rest of us if your card is what they said it is. Also, what works today may not work the next time.

Ive been traveling with ONE swipe credit card for approximately 2+ years and so far I've been fine getting cash or using it to purchase stuff. What i do though, is that when i enter a restaurant/store, i ask (by showing) if they take my swipe credit card. If not, i get cash, it they do, then I'm good to go.

Happy trails.

Ray,
Sorry you are wrong. I have a pin and chip card and it does NOT default to chip and signature. IF the vendor has a chip and pin reader, I put the card in the reader, enter the pin and remove the card. No signature required. If the vendor does not have a pin and chip reader the card can be used as a standard US magnetic stripe card which of course needs a signature. Where I live, a small town, there are two merchants that I use that have a pin and chip reader (Sam's Club and surprisingly a small local restaurant).

Just remember that it is a credit card (I believe) as I also received a new chip and signature MC from Barclays. Just do not try using it in an ATM to withdraw money in Europe since almost all CC's treat that as a cash advance with terrible rates and fees, that is unless you have money to burn.

@ bob,

you are one of the few that has had their card work then.

my experience is 0 when it comes to CNP/CNS. It was reading the thread i mentioned and where many people have posted their experience is where I'm getting my info. Im on the fence about getting CNP/CNS cards since i only have 1 credit card, I'm thinking it s a good idea to have a 2nd card and also do some experimenting.

Since you have had good luck with your card, it would be nice to give up the details for others that may want to pursue one.

happy trails.

Ray,

You only need one card. The Chip and Pin cards issued by US banks are dual function. They have a chip and a magnetic stripe. Therefore, they will work in both the new chip and pin readers and the old style magnetic stripe readers which are still in the majority in the US. I got my chip and pin card from USAA Savings Bank.

I don't know what this CNS/CNP default thing is but I don't trust any statements with such bad grammar and no actual data.

Have you been to Europe in the the past year? things have changed. I was last there a couple of years ago and my magnetic strip card worked fine. But I had a "girl's trip" to England planned with my sister this spring so we ( hubby and I) applied for one of the TRUE chip and PIN cards offered in the US. It is a USAA. Card and also has a magnetic strip. In the US I use the magnetic strip. In England, I used the chip and PIN. Many of the chain stores in London like grocery stores and Boots drugstore have self-checkout. My PIN card worked like a charm. My poor sister had to call a store person to come and process her magnetic strip card. One time that took ten minutes!

I don't know where you heard that PIn cards "don't work" but it is wrong. You must have misunderstood what someone was saying.

I just read up on the Barclay card. It is described as a "chip-and-signature card with PIN capability". "Whenever you activate your card you can set a PIN so you can use it abroad where PIN-only transactions are accepted."

Sounds legit to me.

We have one of each--- a true chip and pin, and also a chip and signature. We were just in Europe last October and again last month, and used the PIN card with ease. On a few occasions I was shopping alone without the PIN card and used the chip and signature card. I would show the card and explain that I had to sign. The store clerk would nod, ask me to insert the card in the machine, enter the amount, and then instead of handing me the machine to enter a PIN, he or she would press a button and the machine would spit out a receipt for me to sign.

But you can't always ask a ticket kiosk or gas pump to do that, which is why a PIN card is the safest to have in Europe.

Note that there have been posts here by one person ( traveling in Switzerland) who could not get stores and restaurants to swipe her magnetic card. She was pretty unhappy about having to carry cash.

From the other side of the pond, for comparison - all debit and credit cards issued in the UK now have chip and pin technology and a magnetic stripe.

They both work, and the stripe can be read when traveling to the minority of backwards countries which not yet adopted chip and pin. They then work just like a US card.

There are several places here where the strip functionality is used in addition to the chip and pin. Never to complete a purchase but for such interesting things as identifying a person to a bank of quick scan scanners in a supermarket. All the major supermarket chains in the UK, and Marks and Spencer Food shops have some stores where you carry a scanner to scan products as you put them in the cart. They work by swiping the card on a reader which then releases the handset. At the end of the shopping you then swipe the same card in the checkout to pull up the purchases; then use the chip and pin technology to pay for the shopping.

At some self serve petrol pumps a club card is swiped to get points then inserted and C&P'd to complete the purchase. Note that on those pumps - somewhat contrarily - you cannot swipe to pay.

Moral of the story, though, I suggest having a proper C&P card, not signature, when traveling anywhere outside countries which are still in signature land....

Lots of chip and signature cards have a PIn. Supposedly it is for use to get cash from ATM 's ( bad idea with a credit card). So the simple fact that a chip card comes with a pin doesn't make it chip and pin.

Dick, it will be interesting to see if your card works in ticket where a chip and pin are required. Mplease report back.

If it works, then you have found another credit union that offers a true chip and pin card.

@ bob,

Ray, You only need one card. The Chip and Pin cards issued by US banks
are dual function. They have a chip and a magnetic stripe. Therefore,
they will work in both the new chip and pin readers and the old style
magnetic stripe readers which are still in the majority in the US. I
got my chip and pin card from USAA Savings Bank.

i think you miss my point and i may have not been clear from other issues that i have encountered.

Many of the people that have cards want "CNP" priority. Not "CNS" priority.

Also according to their spreadsheet full of credit cards information, the USAA Rewards cards is one of the few "CNP" cards that was working - as of this time - as a CNP "priority" For what its worth, it shows "CNP" only to be exact. Again, some people had their card work find before and on a recent trip, was switched to CNS "priority".

it maybe one side of the same coin, but for me, if i buy/use something that has a certain feature, i dont want it to change sometime at a later date.

happy trails.

Our third summer using Andrews FCU chip card--it's set up exactly the same way as Dick's Pentagon CU card: sign if the transaction has a human, use the pin in machines. Once in a while, it asks for the pin rather than signature when a human is present. The important thing is that it always works.
@Ray, All the banks and CUs will be issuing chip cards sooner or later. The new system must be in place by October 2015 in the USA.
@Ray You might want more than one CC for traveling. What if your bank had a security breach, or your card were lost/stolen? Our CU had a security breach and shut down all ATM cards while we were traveling. We now have a back up account and back up CC at a different bank.

My experience is identical to Bets' description ( Also with Andrews )

@Dick,

My comments are somewhat the same as George mentioned. I've never heard of "chip and PIN AND C+Sign" cards but perhaps this is an interim measure adopted by U.S. Banks until they make the full transition to EMV technology. I've also had C&P cards for several years and have never been asked to also sign a transaction slip when travelling in Europe. All that's necessary is to enter a PIN. I can change the PIN at any time at the nearest ATM.

The merchants in Europe likely know which countries and banks the cards are issued by from the first four numbers on the card. Perhaps U.S. financial institutions only have limited data links for processing transactions at the moment, so they're retaining the signature system for now? The POS terminals may also "flag" transactions made with cards that aren't completely C&P?

It was interesting to read THIS website regarding the adoption rate of EMV technology across the world. This appears to be current as of June 9th.

"Again, some people have their card work find [sic] before and on a recent trip, was switched to CNS 'priority'. . . . If I buy/use something that has a certain feature, Imdont want it to change sometime at a later date."

Ray, what is your authority for the statement that these cards were "switched" from CNP priority to CNS? Where did you get thisidea? I assume you are talking about the Andrews and PenFed Credit Union cards. According to the three people here who have used these cards over several years, nothing has changed. If a merchant is present, it asks for a signature. in a machine where no human is present to verify a signature, it asks for a pin. In either case it works. Somewhat exactly was "switched"?

George, a Visa Signature card has nothing at all to do with the chip or whether the card is a true chip and PIN. Visa Signature is simply a brand name for a card with a particular package of perks and benefits.

https://usa.visa.com/visasignature/benefits.jsp

Note that ALL the PenFed card say they are "chip enabled." ( you have to read the fine print). But that still doesn't mean they are true chip and pin. Will have to wait for further reports when someone uses one in a PIN-only machine.

Here's the report:

I was about to call the lot of them liars since I've never gotten anything to sign, but now there's a pattern.

You're done with the USAA c&p when you enter the pin. If paper shows up, it's just a receipt.

After 30 days in Italy with a USAA Chip and Pin card I can verify that I never was asked for a signature. Just entered the pin and walked away with a receipt.

My understanding is that the EMV chip can be configured to prefer a signature and yet be pin enabled. This is different from the "signature only" chip and signature.

The cards that are signature preferred/pin enabled will result in a paper to sign at most manned devices, but will take a pin at unmanned devices.

I don't know this from personal experience (on my EMV card, I've only ever been asked for a pin). However, I recall seeing this explanation on another website as one variation.

Chip-and-pin is still evolving internationally while US banks wait and see about an interim system. The Royal Bank of Canada, the country's largest, no longer requires advance notification from clients travelling to foreign countries. That's how much it trusts international banking security for its chip-and-PIN cards. Back in Canada, not even a PIN entry is required for purchases of $100 or less in some stores, just tap the chip card on a pad and collect your receipt.

Back in Canada, not even a PIN entry is required for purchases of $100
or less in some stores, just tap the chip card on a pad and collect
your receipt.

That's has nothing to do with chip & pin. A lot of merchants here in the US don't require a signature for purchases under $50...and we have pay pass as well.

What Michael said . Home Depot only requires a signature over 50 USD , my local Exon Mobil gas pump verifies by entering zip code and has a 100 USD limit at which point the pump shuts down . As it is in the states , both utilize swipe cards .

There is an article about US chip-and-pin cards from the Seattle Times in today's Travel News ( look under Watch, Read, Listen on the left side). He says there are now 5 chip-and-pin cards that are " widely available" in the US: the Andrews, State Department, and PenFed credit union cards; one from Barclay Bank, and one from Hawaiian Airlines. No mention of USAA, maybe because it is not "widely available".

@ sasha,

" Ray, what is your authority for the statement that these cards were "switched" from CNP priority to CNS? Where did you get thisidea? I assume you are talking about the Andrews and PenFed Credit Union cards. According to the three people here who have used these cards over several years, nothing has changed. If a merchant is present, it asks for a signature. in a machine where no human is present to verify a signature, it asks for a pin. In either case it works. Somewhat exactly was "switched"?"

HEre is the link to the thread.

have at it.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1304271-usa-emv-cards-available-today-chip-pin-chip-signature.html

@ Bets

>" @Ray, All the banks and CUs will be issuing chip cards sooner or later. The new system must be in place by October 2015 in the USA.
@Ray You might want more than one CC for traveling. What if your bank had a security breach, or your card were lost/stolen? Our CU had a security breach and shut down all ATM cards while we were traveling. We now have a back up account and back up CC at a different bank."

Thank you for your experience. i have no doubt that any card will work. I was surprised where some people had different results or varying results when they went back.

I was aware of the change and the due date, but when i asked my credit union what they were going to do, their response was "they are looking into it". Which to means to me, they dont know yet and may do the "wait n see" game. My credit union is small so I'm sure its going to be a hassle for them to do the change.

I still am looking into a 2nd card for SHTF. On my last trip, my card was getting close to the replacement time and it developed a crack along its length. I was praying to the credit card gods to not have it jamb in the ATMs when i used it. But i will get a second card anyway to play with and to experiment and see what happens in Europe. The AFCU was one i was looking at along with one of the CnP (only) cards.

happy trails.

Ray, you posted a link to 367 pages of forum chat spread over two and a half years. That is not authority for anything.

Hi,

The last time I was in Paris was 2 years ago, paid the hotel bill and some meals with an US magnetic stripe credit card...no problems. This past May in Berlin and Vienna I used the US magnetic stripe credit card to do the same,... some meals and the hotel bills...same result, ie, no problems. I stick to the US magnetic stripe credit card.

Fred,

I have just completed a 30 day trip to Italy. I used my US magnetic stripe card everywhere EXCEPT at locations where there were no attendants/clerks. Ticket kiosks in train stations, unmanned toll booths and gas stations, vending machines, etc all required a "pin and chip" card. If you do not need any of these unmanned services a US stripe credit card works fine.

@ Bob....I believe it depends on the specific country where one can use a magnetic stripe US credit card without any problems, such as my experience Austria and Germany in May confirms, including German Rail (DB) ticket machines.

Your trip shows that things in Italy are different, (good to know), the same in Holland and France where the chip and pin card is needed when buying train tickets from a machine.. Luckily, in Germany this is not the case. DB machines accept US credit cards. I had to make a night train reservation from Hamburg to Munich at a DB ticket counter, paid with the magnetic stripe US credit card, , and, as always, it went through. The same in Austria at a ticket counter.