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Updated "new" rough 4 month Europe itinerary with 2 teens

Thank you so much for the feedback on my first rough draft itinerary of the trip we are planning for next year.

I've made several changes, a major one being moving our second cruise until we get to the UK and doing a British Isles cruise instead. I've added some time in a few places, cut out a couple of places etc.

Here is our rough plan now. I DO have plans to have "rest/relax/do nothing/get laundry done" days. I am planning to rent air bnb's on stays longer than 3 nights. On our first cruise, there are a couple of ports we will not be getting off the ship, etc.

Keeping in mind that we are flexible to relax and not feel we need to hit every single site.
Another update is we will likely utilize the trains as much as possible.

Presently on this list, we have Paris at the end exiting the Schengen area day 88 but are flexible to drop Paris altogether or cut time off if need be.

Day 1 Arrive Spain-Madrid
Day 2-13 Spain (Madrid and Andalucia only this trip) 12 full days
Day 14 Flight to Athens from a southern spain airport
Day 15 Athens
Day 16 Athens to Santorini by plane or ferry *I really really really want to visit Santorini
Days 17-18 Santorini--TOTAL CHILLAX TIME
Day 19 Flight to Florence
Days 20-25 Florence/Tuscany--will stay outside Florence and have at least one day to rest--6 full days
Day 26 Train to Rome
Day 27-31 Rome including one day trip to Pompeii--5 full days
Day 32-44 CRUISE: Livorno, Genoa, Marseille, Barcelona, Malta, Corfu, Katakolon, Hirakleon, Athens. 2 sea days. We will likely stay on ship on Athens day also.
Day 44 Disembark cruise and train to Venice
Day 45-46 Venice---I have considered dropping Venice. However, I've been twice but noone else has. My 14 year old daughter has her heart set on it. BUT *she
is the one that I'll travel to Europe more with for certain
Day 47 Venice; evening flight to Krakow
Day 48-50 Krakow and Auchwitz---someone had suggested adding more time in Poland but I think that may be a different trip.
Day 51 Travel to Berlin
Day 52-55 Berlin--we originally had 3 full days and added one more
Day 56 Travel to Munich
Day 57-69 Munich/Bavaria/Salzburg and Vienna---is 13 FULL days enough to somehow see these places?
Day 70 Travel to Switzerland
Day 71-76 Switzerland--6 full days
Day 77 high speed train to Normandy, France
Day 78-82 Normandy--5 full days
Day 83 Normandy to Paris
Day 84-87 Paris
Day 88 Exit to London

It still looks exhausting to me, but at this point, we are covering places everyone wants to visit.

Thank you in advance for feed back.

Posted by
27929 posts

I still feel like Berlin is short and you have--comparatively--more time than you need in Munich/Salzburg etc. The latter depends on how many side trips you plan to make, obviously.

If you haven't done so, check the schedules for your intra-European flights. Those are fairly unusual routes, and you may find that non-stop flights do not operate every day of the week. Some are seasonal, and I don't know how long the "season" is. Those schedules may require a bit of fancy footwork, and it would be best to know the constraints ahead of time.

If you find you can't get a direct flight, be sure you know whether you're buying a true connection (so that you're protected if a delay on the first flight causes you to miss the second) or just two separate tickets (meaning that you assume all the risk). Connecting flights are likely to mean substantially higher costs as well as additional travel time.

Posted by
11744 posts

My reaction is ambitious but not crazy. Sounds like you have the right mindset to slow down if needed. As long as you do not have an endless string of 2, 3, 4 night stays. That is exhausting. And it gets tiresome to eat in restaurants all the time. Having apartments will help. In fact, even though it is only 3 nights, I would get an apartment in Venice because I think you will be sick of shipboard dining and may want to eat less formally, have some extra space, etc.

If I changed anything else it would be to drop Poland and add time is Switzerland. Poland is an outlier and your time in SW is so short. Do you know where exactly you will go in Switzerland?

Posted by
7175 posts

Even with a trip of 4 months, you still can’t do absolutely everything. In fact it’s desirable to leave some ‘must dos’ out, in order to inspire and motivate future trips. Remember you are still young!!

The length of your trip will also dictate the style of travel. You will of course look for more nights at each destination, avoiding one, two, even 3 night stays. You will want to move on ‘down the road’ rather than jumping about a lot. Hence you will most likely prefer a train to a plane. Lastly, look at compromises that will make things flow better, given what I’ve just described. So my advice would be to substitute the Amalfi Coast for Santorini, and Prague for Krakow.

Day
1..Madrid - 5 nights
6..Andalucia - 8 nights
14..(Fly to) Naples & Amalfi Coast
 - 5 nights
19..Florence & Tuscany
 - 7 nights
26..Rome
 - 6 nights
32..CRUISE - 12 nights
(Livorno, Genoa, Marseille, Barcelona, Malta, Corfu, Katakolon, Hirakleon, Athens.)
44..(Fly to) Switzerland - 9 nights
53..Munich & Bavaria - 6 nights
59..Salzburg & Vienna - 6 nights
65..Prague - 4 nights
69..Berlin - 5 nights
74..Rhine or Holland or Belgium - 4 nights
78..Normandy - 5 nights
83..Paris - 6 nights
89..London

Posted by
46 posts

After consulting more with the family, we've narrowed things down a bit more and here's what we've got. Two places that remain musts are Poland and Venice!

Day 1 Arrive Spain
Day 2-13 Spain (Madrid and Andalucia)
Day 14 Fly to Florence
Day 15-21 Florence/Tuscany
Day 22 Train to Rome
Day 23-28 Rome to include 1 day trip to Pompeii
Days 29-41 CRUISE: Livorno, Genoa, Marsailles, Barcelona, Malta, Corfu, Katakolon, Hirakleon, Athens
Day 41 debark cruise and train to Venice
Day 42-43 Venice
Day 44 Venice; evening flight to Krakow
Day 45-48 Krakow, Auschwitz, Warsaw
Day 49 Train to Berlin
Day 50-77 28 Full days for Berlin, Munich/Bavaria, Black Forest and Salzburg, Austria area?
Day 78 Munich to Paris
Day 79-81 Paris
Day 82 Travel to Normandy
Day 82-87 Normandy and day trip to Mont St Michel
Day 88 Train to Paris and on to London

Once we are in London, we'll have 5 days in London followed by a 12 day British Isles cruise followed by more time in England and Ireland.

Posted by
3050 posts

I'm going to say don't bother with the Black Forest. I know I'm the Black Forest naysayer in this forum, but really, the scenery is not that impressive compared to the Alps or idk, many parts of the USA. It only makes sense to visit if you're visiting nearby areas like Alsace, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, etc. Otherwise, skip it.

I like the revised itinerary better than anything you've posted so far. I still question the wisdom of going to Santorini when you're taking a cruise that involves both Athens and other Greek islands. It just seems like a time/money sink. Also while I know people who adore Santorini, and in fairness, I have not been, my husband was just telling me about a colleague of his who visits Greece often, loves Greece, and thinks Santorini is crazy overrated. At the very least, it seems like it belongs in another trip, perhaps a more Greek-focused one. Especially since you already have a handful of outliers like Venice and Poland. Something to consider.

Posted by
343 posts

With as many days in Normandy that you have, I'd recommend NOT doing a day trip to Mont St Michel, but rather staying overnight. It's lovely at night, and you really get the sense of the place when you can wander around those ancient paths and the wall at night.

28 days to do Bavaria and the Black Forest sounds divine! If you want to stretch your wings a little more, go up the Rhine to Bacharach and enjoy some time there among the vineyards and life along the river. Really beautiful.