Unity vs. Diversity: Back to the Future?

As I mentioned in a recent posting here, when I told a taxi driver in Valencia that I was on my first trip to Catalunya, he forcibly pointed out that when I get up to Tarragona, then I would be in Catalunya. "Valencia is not Catalunya!"

I make a point of telling inquirers in Europe that I am from California -- I don't say America or EEUU because I don't want them to think I'm a New Yorker or a Texan. And if the person is from- or knows- the US well, I say northern California, because I don't want them to think I'm an Angeleno or a farmer.
I mentioned this to a guide in Barcelona, and he concurred -- in recent years the Americans on his tours tend to say their state rather than their country. It's not clear whether this is a matter of pride in one's particular locale or embarrassment about the images associated with the larger country.

Sociologists here in the USA have noticed a strong uptick in people reporting on surveys that they are non-religious, and further analysis seems to show that there isn't actually a big upsurge of atheism, but there is definitely an increasing sense that people don't want to be labelled Christian because the term has too many negative connotations, fundamentalist right-wing connotations.
Maybe there are some parallels to be found in other identity choices?

May I call you bob? You may be looking exclusively for input from "inside" Europeans, but my sense is that, as long as unification makes economic sense, then some internal regional or cultural differences will be overlooked by most people and their countries and alliances will stay united. Security and overall well-being concerns are another impetus for remaining united, despite other perceived differences.

I wonder if avirosemail is from that part of California that's within a couple hundred miles of the Oregon border, way up in Northern California? I've heard many people refer to Northern California, but meaning somewhere in or around San Francisco, which is geographically in the middle part of the state.

In high school American History, studying the American Civil War of the 1860's, I recall a story of Union troops marching through one southern town, and a woman shouted at them, "Go home, Yankees!" One soldier squared up his shoulders and said, "Madam, I'm not a Yankee, I'm from Ohio!"

American first then proud of my heritage , family roots which are from England , Germany , Viking , Native American , Irish ect . When my daughter was asked where she is from said " Southern " even though she is born in Ohio . She too knows about the history of both sides of our family but foremost an American first..
When I was in Yorkshire there is pride of being a Yorkist & they still talk of fighting the Scot's so long ago like it was yesterday. So too my friends who live in Wales make it a point of saying they are from London.. It would be strange if we felt no connection.
Remember the poem " I hope I have this correct as it was a LONG time ago I was in school " a man who in court said I hope never to hear the word America again. He was put on a ship and his wish came true never heard the name America , I think it is Man without a Country ?

No discussion that everybody wants to be part of a group and the deeper the roots usually the stronger the ties are, what gives our identity. Nowadays globilization is in full swing and I think many are uncertain about their future as it looks that identity becomes not so evident as it was before. As a reaction, especially minorities or those who think they are, are inclined to hold stronger to that identity. That struggle for seperatism is mainly a local struggle and in many if not most cases here in Europe going back for ages, making the ties very strong. With the raise of the EU they become uncertain about their place, but also hope to use that bigger platform to get attention to their case they want. That goes relativily easy as it easily can threaten the further build up of the EU.

Gail makes it claer: If you are an American you are in the first place an American, as far as I can see your local identity is lesser important. So American membership is the backbone of your society. In Europe it is the opposite, the national or regional membership comes first, so in the first place somebody is Dutch, Italian or French. So in times of uncertainty the first response is to fall back on the nation(s identity) where you come from. That makes the EU such a huge challenge as all those national interests has to work together under every condition. So if the going get tough national interests actually comes first. The financial and immigrant crisis makes that so painfully clear.

In my case I'm in the first place Dutch, to be more precise "Zeeuws" :)

"I wonder if avirosemail is from that part of California that's within a couple hundred miles of the Oregon border, way up in Northern California? I've heard many people refer to Northern California, but meaning somewhere in or around San Francisco, which is geographically in the middle part of the state."

There is Southern California and Northern California. While geographically San Francisco is in the middle of the state it is not considered Central California. Although there are areas referred to as the central coast and the Central Valley. I think the divide between Northern and Southern California is somewhere around Bakersfield or maybe the mountains just south of there. That makes Northern California much larger geographically. And that area near the Oregon border...they call themselves the State of Jefferson.

Ever since my trip in 1971 when asked by anyone over there, ie other Americans or Europeans, I've always said that I'm from California. If they continued to ask, then I would tell them I'm a native, born and raised in Calif. Some Europeans would then say, "so you're American." Then I would say yes. Two examples really struck me on the 2003 summer trip in France, ie, the year of the US invasion of Iraq, when I paid with a credit card at a restaurant, one time in Toulouse, that clearly indicated that the card holder was American. They would know anyway since no chip was on the card. Seeing that the waiter asked, "from Texas." "No, California." The first time this sort of incident took place, didn't think twice about it. The same incident repeated itself in Paris, where again upon seeing the obvious US credit card, the waiter asked, "Texas?" What about now? I still answer with California, instead of USA.

The country divisions in RS website are probably dictated by convenience so that readers can easily go to the country they are interested in visiting. I think you are reading too much into it. In the past there were several countries bunched together in the same overall area of Europe, now they decided to divvy them up to make it easier for the visitor.

Conventional geography notions, the pictures in our heads, are often at odds with the facts on the ground, not just with what counts as northern California. One of my favorites is Tijuana -- it is no farther south than Birmingham, Alabama. Millions of people in the United States reside in places farther south than Tijuana, but we don't have the same stereotypical associations with people in, say, Houston or Savannah that we have for those who live 'south of the border, down Mexico way.'

If you looked just at a map, Tijuana would match up with Shreveport and Galveston would match up with Chihuahua!
This is true all over Europe as well -- parts of European Sicily are farther south than African Tunisia.

Wil makes the essential point, I think -- we think of ourselves first as Americans, then as Californians or Texans or New Yorkers. Europeans think of themselves first as Dutch or Italian or French, then as Europeans. The histories are very different -- we started as disparate colonies, but with a common language and common grievances, quickly learned we had to unite, and found ways to do that early in our national history (though arguably it took a civil war). Europe started (after the Romans anyway) as a collection of fiefdoms that became nations and finally, after two catastrophic wars and a cold war, have tried to work together in a "union" despite different languages and centuries of diverse history. The American melting pot was big and hot enough to absorb most of us into a shared culture (though with ethnic differences that remain sources of both pride and hostility). Europe has mostly failed to integrate its immigrant populations and now faces serious divisions and dangers, both economic and political.

Rick Steves has long celebrated European unity and the open borders on the continent, but he and we must wonder whether the centrifugal forces are going to be stronger than the unifying ones. As an Anglophile, Francophile, and Europhile (of Dutch ancestry) I hope Europe finds a way to grow "ever closer," but I fear the worst. We'll know a lot more after the UK referendum. Meanwhile we'll keep going back to Europe as often as we can. Whenever I stop crossing the ocean, I think it will have more to do with the rigors of flying than the hardening of borders.

I always think of "northern California" as north of the Bay Area, but what do I know? Some of my British friends think I live in California since I'm on the coast. Meanwhile, we call ourselves "Washington" and the other place "DC," while they call us "Washington State" and themselves "Washington." Talk about confusing!

The country divisions in RS website are probably dictated by convenience so that readers can easily go to the country they are interested in visiting. I think you are reading too much into it. In the past there were several countries bunched together in the same overall area of Europe, now they decided to divvy them up to make it easier for the visitor.

Exactly what I was thinking, Roberto! The Forum for a combined U.K. would be so busy and difficult to follow if what you really want is info on a particular part, like Scotland. It would be like having a Forum for "America" and having to hunt through for advice on Oregon as well as Florida.

FYI, as American citizens living in Rome, we are often asked where we are from. I always say simply that we are American. Inevitably they ask specifically from where, but only about one in ten knows where Oregon is so I end up giving a geography lesson: "Nord di California, Sud di Washington State."

Laurel. The problem with your explanation is that afterwards you also need to define to the Italians the location of Washington State: "Sulla Costa Del Pacifico al confine con il Canada."
Save yourself some words: "L'Oregon è sulla costa del Pacifico al confine settentrionale della California".

It does make me wonder about the level of geography and history education in US schools.

Emma, We all wonder about this. It is sad.

Be advised that Geography is not a required subject in Calif public high schools for graduation. Learning Geography and History in Calif don't go hand in hand. Not even in the mid-1960s when Calif was second to New York in public high school education was it required. It was an elective. Whether it ought to be a mandatory subject needed for graduation, you'll get various views on that. Some support that, others strongly oppose it.

Emma,
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point about Ireland, but I'd say that proximity and the number of Americans of Irish descent are dictating that it have its own forum.

Unless your point is in reference to Northern Ireland not having a stand-alone forum...

Having separate England, Scotland and Wales forums can also result in some cultural insensitivity. The England forum is often treated as the default Great Britain forum by visitors and is ok when the questions cross the borders. However for me, I will not generally answer Scotland or Wales only questions on the England forum. A joint Great Britain forum for ESW would certainly help.

Thanks to all who replied. Many thanks to RS and others who advance the idea that we can all learn to live together in unity of purpose and diversity of culture, so that we can enjoy the differences while working for the common good of all. Sure beats the alternative.